Juggernauts are "archaic" compared to Marauders

[Dee-Jay]

When I look at m Guardian, I see a trusty old Toyoate Pickup. A classic, that has served MMOs well over the decades despite largely unchanged design paradigms.

 

Then I gaze over to my Sentinel, and I see a brand new Porsche featuring a new streamlined designed for maximum performance in any situation.

 

 

Lets' be honest here. Guardians are essentially a carbon copy or the "Warrior" archtetype found in most others MMOs, especially Wow. In fact well over half of Guardian abilties have a direct mirror in WoW and the similarities between the two are impossible to ignore.

 

To me it looks like the Guardian was implemented as a "base class" sometime early during the development cycle and then never iterated upon. It still is very much the same as a WoW Warrior, just with half the tool-set.

 

 

The Sentinel however was either implemented later or underwent a revamp pretty late during the development cycle.

 

The whole class is more modern, more streamlined and frankly better in many ways when compared to their DPS Guardian counterparts.

 

 

It starts with the abilities:

 

Guardians have "Last Stand" (Enure) and "Shield Wall" (Saber Ward), just like you'd expect coming from older MMOs. These abilities didn't require much though or originailty. Everyone understands them as their counterparts can be found in just about every other MMO.

 

Sentinels on the other hand not only have a much wieder set of CDs, they are also more useful and add more utility to the class.

 

Force Camoflage - A threat drop, Stealth, Speed-boost and invulnerability all in one. (45 Sek. CD)

 

Guarded by the Force - The best mitigation CD in game and it keeps you alive, even after the effect ends (unlike Enure).(90 Sek. CD)

 

Rebuke - 20% DR for up to 30 seconds. (60 Sek. CD or less)

 

Saber Ward - 25% DR for 12 Sek. (3 min CD).

 

The irony is especially apparent when observing these CDs. What a Guardian would consider his best defensive cooldown, a Sentinel would consider his worst (Saber Ward).

 

Add to that the raid-cooldowns Sentinels bring to the table.

 

-Transcendence - 50% speed and 10% mitigation for 10 seconds.

-Inspiration - 15% more damage for 15 seconds (5 min CD).

 

Now I can understand why Sentinels would have such raid-cooldowns in order to off-set their lack of hybrid-utility. That's fair and I'm not going to ride on that.

 

But as to why almost all of their abilities must be better, I don't know.

 

 

The archaic design of the Guardians becomes even more apparent when looking at the talent trees.

 

In the Vigilance tree (Guardian) alone, half of the abilities fall into the following two categories:

-passive damage/stat increase

-cooldown reduction

 

There are very few abilities that directly influence the play-style or have any kind of "cool" effects. The only noteworthy ones seem to be:

-Unremitting

-Gather Strength

-Force Rush

- (arguably) Protector

 

 

The Watchman tree on the other hand only has about 6 passive damage increases or straight cooldown reductions. All of the other talents add at least some kind of interesting side-effect or utility, starting with passive self-healing up to short-range Leaps.

 

 

All this leaves me to conclude that Guardians are a class designed sometime back in 2008 whereas Sentinels have all the modern gadgets you'd expect from a class designed in 2011, by a much more experienced a confident development team.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for nerfs to Sentinels. I'm asking that Guardians (and their mirrors, obviously) undergo the same iteration process as Sentinels have because the disparity is simply unfair. I feel like I'm playing with building blocks while my neighbor has the newest Transformers.

[Tickdoff-Tank]

My Jugg may be a "Pick up Truck", but he feels more like this one than a Toyota.

 

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/03/the-ultimate-pickup-from-rolls-royce.html

[Barrakudah]

My Jugg "Truck"

[Achromatis]

Yep, I completely agree.

 

And this is what happens when the "archaic" Juggernaut meets that new shiny "improved" Mara.

 

I know its not really an old truck, but I had problems finding a picture of a crash that didnt look like the driver of the car got completely smushed :/

 

Edit: You need to have a few classes that are "familiar" to players, especially with important roles like a tank or a healer(Sorc being the more classic healer class).

Edited April 5, 2012 by Achromatis

[Xtrema]

Yea completely agree, its evident every time I happen to fight a Marauder/Sent 1v1. I get him down to 15-20% hp with few smashes, he starts popping his CDs and his HP barely goes anywhere while he hacks away at mine. Fine, my hp is low now too and I pop my CDs. Sad part is even after all this time, when mine are finished he's still got stealth; he stealths and uses viscous throw to finish me off. Quite frustrating really..and I'm not as squishy as I used to be, I got my hp to 17k with BH buff without sacrificing any power...anyways /rant.

 

Doesn't seem like anybody can make any sense of this. Bleh, I'm still holding out hope that whatever 'under the hood' changes they made negates a lot of our assumptions about the 1.2 changes...and hopefully it wont be that bad. hopefully, lol

 

edit: Has anyone else also noticed how a fully geared marauder has SO much more hp than a fully geared dps jugg? In fact the dps marauder's hp can almost rival a tank jugg, i understand the tank will have more mitigation but still...cant help but feel supremely neglected as a jugg

Edited April 6, 2012 by Xtrema

[RecklessFable]

Wait, when did Marauders get stealth? Are you talking about the Assassin?

 

Anyways, I just play Huttball mainly and tend to frustrate Maras to death...

Edited April 6, 2012 by RecklessFable

[Marak]

He's clearly talking about Jugg vs Mara duels

[AzraelCales]

Wait, when did Marauders get stealth? Are you talking about the Assassin?

 

Anyways, I just play Huttball mainly and tend to frustrate Maras to death...

 

Marauders get Force Camo in their 30s iirc. Only lasts 4 secs but it's still useful, however it would be nice if they lowered the cooldown by at least 15 secs.

[ouTJumped]

Yep, I completely agree.

 

And this is what happens when the "archaic" Juggernaut meets that new shiny "improved" Mara.

 

I know its not really an old truck, but I had problems finding a picture of a crash that didnt look like the driver of the car got completely smushed :/

 

Edit: You need to have a few classes that are "familiar" to players, especially with important roles like a tank or a healer(Sorc being the more classic healer class).

 

I laughed. Anyways, your Jugg is the white car, healers are the brown car

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=tank+crushing+truck&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS431US431&biw=1600&bih=799&tbm=isch&tbnid=jhOLmVWnh4zWoM:&imgrefurl=http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2011/10/tank_car_crush_video.php&docid=8__7ZpGxBFycdM&imgurl=http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/tank%252520crush%252520cars.jpg&w=899&h=518&ei=_XN-T7-RFIGe8QTpxdiRDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=574&vpy=123&dur=13493&hovh=170&hovw=296&tx=123&ty=94&sig=114702337171121670743&page=2&tbnh=110&tbnw=191&start=28&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:28,i:209