Powertech AP

[HavocMaster]

So, how is the Advanced Prototype Powertech for leveling, with the new patch changes? How is their DPS?

[Hizoka]

So, how is the Advanced Prototype Powertech for leveling, with the new patch changes? How is their DPS?

 

they are a very fun and more then viable class, they do take a bit more skill to play well then pyro, but they alss look alot cooler.

 

 

Many of the forum baddies here will say they are useless and just go pyro because you can RNG your way to better burst. but there is nothing wrong with AP.

[Nydar]

they are a very fun and more then viable class, they do take a bit more skill to play well then pyro, but they alss look alot cooler.

 

 

Many of the forum baddies here will say they are useless and just go pyro because you can RNG your way to better burst. but there is nothing wrong with AP.

 

Well, if you're good and have an easier time of dps with a certain spec than another, then it stands to reason that you'd be EVEN better using the former than the latter.

[HavocMaster]

So, can they be competitive w/ and Arsenal Merc?

[Agooz]

So, can they be competitive w/ and Arsenal Merc?

 

No, AP are NOT competitive with Arsenal merc in terms of damage output. But then again, they are not suppose to be, since they have more mobility and some cute bells and whistles.

And dont believe the senseless babble about them requiring more "skill" to play. In fact AP is much easier to play since you dont have to manage heat. It's not like they have more abilities to use than a Pyro.

It is fine for leveling, as good as any subpar AC tree. But if you want a solid leveling tree without a lot of wasted talents that are mainly for PvP, I suggest shieldtech or Pyro. The disadvantage of the AP in leveling is that it pretty much offers absolutely nothing to help you level in the first 3 tiers. Then you hit the 4th tier and it starts getting better, where as at the same tier, shieldtech and even more so the pyro tree give you much more.

Anyone with any experience with the class, would tell you that you would need to be 40+ to actually make the AP tree "viable".

[BlazingShadow]

No, AP are NOT competitive with Arsenal merc in terms of damage output. But then again, they are not suppose to be, since they have more mobility and some cute bells and whistles.

And dont believe the senseless babble about them requiring more "skill" to play. In fact AP is much easier to play since you dont have to manage heat. It's not like they have more abilities to use than a Pyro.

It is fine for leveling, as good as any subpar AC tree. But if you want a solid leveling tree without a lot of wasted talents that are mainly for PvP, I suggest shieldtech or Pyro. The disadvantage of the AP in leveling is that it pretty much offers absolutely nothing to help you level in the first 3 tiers. Then you hit the 4th tier and it starts getting better, where as at the same tier, shieldtech and even more so the pyro tree give you much more.

Anyone with any experience with the class, would tell you that you would need to be 40+ to actually make the AP tree "viable".

 

You're suggesting Shieldtech as an AC tree WITHOUT wasted talents? Nerfherder, please.

 

Agooz is one of the biggest anti-AP posters on this board... and I attribute it to his inability to utilize the tree.

 

AP doesn't rely on setup or RNG the way pyro does. If you know what you're doing, you can flee any unpleasant encounter. You can bet your money on the ability to keep on your target. Pyro may be able to do more DPS, but it's a log in a lake to me... slow to move and sinking when surrounded. AP's way more reliable.

 

Bottom line: try it. if you don't like it, that's fine. Forum opinions aren't worth their weight in sawdust.

Edited April 5, 2012 by BlazingShadow

[Hizoka]

No, AP are NOT competitive with Arsenal merc in terms of damage output. But then again, they are not suppose to be, since they have more mobility and some cute bells and whistles.

And dont believe the senseless babble about them requiring more "skill" to play. In fact AP is much easier to play since you dont have to manage heat. It's not like they have more abilities to use than a Pyro.

It is fine for leveling, as good as any subpar AC tree. But if you want a solid leveling tree without a lot of wasted talents that are mainly for PvP, I suggest shieldtech or Pyro. The disadvantage of the AP in leveling is that it pretty much offers absolutely nothing to help you level in the first 3 tiers. Then you hit the 4th tier and it starts getting better, where as at the same tier, shieldtech and even more so the pyro tree give you much more.

Anyone with any experience with the class, would tell you that you would need to be 40+ to actually make the AP tree "viable".

 

they are very competative.

 

 

i find it funny about his claims because he one of the people who cannot make AP work well..

 

 

Annihilation marauders have the most skills of any class in the game, they have some of the best utility and mobility while having the highest DPS in game. The caveat is they are also the hardest thing to play. DO not let these guys tell you AP is not worth anything because it does equal damage to an merc PROVIDED you play the class correctly. Powertechs are a melee class, so you have to be in melee to get the most out of them. Many of the players here are scared to get into melee thus hurting their performance with the tree.

 

 

The best thing you can do is play the class and learn it from the ground up. If you are playing and do not like it try something different. Every class is viable with every spec, there is very little damage difference inf act between the classes.

 

People love mercs and commands because they are stupid proof, that is also why people think they are such high damage, its because you can't mess them up. It is not that they do more damage its that people mess up the other classes giving the illusion of one being better.

 

Like i said test things for yourself and find out on your own.

Edited April 5, 2012 by CommunitySupportEN

[Theology]

AP is garbage, before and after 1.2.

[Saprezzan]

AP is garbage, before and after 1.2.

 

Come now, it's worse than Pyro currently, for sure, but that's not a fair comparison...

[Agooz]

You're suggesting Shieldtech as an AC tree WITHOUT wasted talents? Nerfherder, please.

 

Huh? what? I am sorry, please clarify because that made absolutely no sense to me. If I would guess, I'd say you're suggesting the shieldtech AC has wasted talent like AP? What wasted talents do you take in shieldtech to move up the tiers that arent useful in pve? Shieldtech is actually the easiest tree to level with.

 

Agooz is one of the biggest anti-AP posters on this board... and I attribute it to his inability to utilize the tree.

 

You know that would be true if there was some way I could make money or somehow benefit from such a ridiculous claim. In fact, if you look up my post history, you would see where I said over and over, that the AP is what most PTs, myself included, wanted to play when they rolled the class from launch.

 

Just because I have a sense of the shortcomings of the tree and its performance in comparison to other trees doesnt make me "anti" anything. lol

I guess my false criticism led the devs to actually BUFF AP and NERF Pyro for absolutely NO REASON, since they were both balanced to begin with. That is to say, that in 1.2 AP should be considered OP. What amazing logic.

 

AP doesn't rely on setup or RNG the way pyro does. If you know what you're doing, you can flee any unpleasant encounter. You can bet your money on the ability to keep on your target. Pyro may be able to do more DPS, but it's a log in a lake to me... slow to move and sinking when surrounded. AP's way more reliable.

 

1) Pyro doesnt rely on RNG to outdamage AP. Stop with the nonese. Because even with the Pyro nerf to PPA, it still outdamages AP.

2) AP doesnt have setup and RNG?

hmmm Flamethrower Proto, that's a setup. Hec prob one of the LONGEST setups of any class. Charged Gauntlets? Flame barrage? those arent RNG?

3) You are right about the ESCAPE of AP. Sure, for someone who messes up encounters often, doesnt know how to pull, is incapable of watching his surroundings, cant handle the challenge of multiple mobs, yes HO is a life saver. For the rest of us, that dont panic when we get jumped or our health gets dropped, it is not an advantage.

4) You also forgot about Prototype Cylinder Vent. That's a nice advantage of AP. Again it is for people who do not know how to manage heat, making the tree more suitable for beginners

 

Bottom line: try it. if you don't like it, that's fine. Forum opinions aren't worth their weight in sawdust.

 

There is a HUGE difference between opinion and making unfounded claims. Again, I will repeat. If you and your likes were right all along, why is AP getting quite a bit of buffs, and Pyro getting a nerf? answer that please. Because we really need to make the devs aware that this change is completely uncalled for since both AP and Pyro are on par. Right?....lol riiiiiight.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Agooz

[dijskykiller]

Played both specs at 50 and had been a pyro follower because of its insane proc that is OP. 2 weeks ago i decided to respec to AP out of boredom coz pyro's too easy to handle. Seriously, heat management with pyro isnt hard if youre a good player. AP on the other hand demands more skill for me because you have to keep yourself in 10m range and below while unloading everythng continuously because of good heat management. I Do agree that compared to pyro i wasnt able to get 12 medals YET with ap, but i managed to squeeze it up to 11. With the fact that pyro is currently OP, my result puts ap behind pyro by a low percentage in dps. Utility and mobility-wise, between pyro and ap, its ap all the way.

 

Also, i do think ap is a powerful spec even without patch 1.2. Its just a lot of people have difficulty making it effective because pyro takes less effort to get the result which makes it a better option.

Edited April 5, 2012 by dijskykiller

[Agooz]

Played both specs at 50 and had been a pyro follower because of its insane proc that is OP. 2 weeks ago i decided to respec to AP out of boredom coz pyro's too easy to handle. Seriously, heat management with pyro isnt hard if youre a good player. AP on the other hand demands more skill for me because you have to keep yourself in 10m range and below while unloading everythng continuously because of good heat management. I Do agree that compared to pyro i wasnt able to get 12 medals YET with ap, but i managed to squeeze it up to 11. With the fact that pyro is currently OP, my result puts ap behind pyro by a low percentage in dps. Utility and mobility-wise, its ap all the way.

 

Also, i do think ap is a powerful spec even without patch 1.2. Its just a lot of people have difficulty making it effective because pyro takes less effort to get the result which makes it a better option.

 

With all due respect, the argument that it takes more "skill" to play an AP, due to staying within 10m OR for whatever reason is complete nonsense. Just because the tree has FLAWS that requires to do more things, doesnt mean it requires more skills. Because it boils down to the end result.

If it requires more skill to play AP and make it on par with any other AC, then it is logical to think that with such skills the AP would outperform other ACs or at the very least a Pyro. You put more "energy" not "skill" in AP, and the end result is STILL below your expectation. No one has an issue with playing a "difficult" AC, as long as there is reward associated with such. Otherwise, your mainly pointing out the flaws and shortcomings of the tree.

[dijskykiller]

We all know that pyro is ahead of ap because pyro's proc is op pre-1.2, so being able to use ap and make it effective in pvp is the point of discussion. 1.2 is not far and im confident APs gonna be in line or above pyro due to cd on ppa and slight buff on AP.

[TheOpf]

I don't know who started the farce that AP has more utility than Pyro. AP has 3 utility skills none are game breakingl.

 

Improved Electrocute (utility skill) - almost no one specs into it.

Improved Grapple (utility skill) - the only useful utility

Improved Quell (utility skill) - preferential

 

Hydraulic Override - not a utility skill - an escape skill

Kolto Vents - non-utility - self heal

 

 

Utility is a skill that helps you as well as others such as guard or a slow. AP has no slows, no CC, no jet charge, and no utility that Pyro doesn't have.

 

Pyro has Degauss which gives your shield a chance to remove all movement imparing effects. That is as good as Hydraulic Overrides but with a longer CD.

 

So again What utility does AP bring to the table? Please stop saying you have more utility than any other tree. Shield tech has utility, Pyro has burst, and AP has FlameThrower. All the utility bonuses in the AP tree are easily accessible to every tree and are generally not considered game breaking enough to warrant it a must have.

 

I have started a thread detailing my 3 days as an AP BH. It has been an interesting experience so far. You can follow me at AP Living

Edited April 5, 2012 by TheOpf

[dijskykiller]

Im just comparing ap and pyros not all trees, corrected it now. I Agree with all your points except for quell and HO. I think quell is important for more control. I dont have time to explain it now but i would recommend to spend 2 points on it. Youre using OH defensively, i usually use it while approaching an enemy to be slow and knockbackproof and when catching someone when its needed.

[Agooz]

Im just comparing ap and pyros not all trees, corrected it now. I Agree with all your points except for quell and HO. I think quell is important for more control. I dont have time to explain it now but i would recommend to spend 2 points on it. Youre using OH defensively, i usually use it while approaching an enemy to be slow and knockbackproof and when catching someone when its needed.

 

Knowing how to play a PT in general, you can really do away with the faster quell. The reason AP "needs" a faster quell is to substitute the burst of Pyro. As a pyro going after a healer, you start with Quell, burst, Carbonize, burst, stun, burst....by then you have quell available again, but in many cases, the healer is dead already. if the healer knocks you back, you grapple for yet another interrupt. I never fought any class and lost because quell was on cd.

[exphryl]

 

Hydraulic Override - not a utility skill - an escape skill

 

Pyro has Degauss which gives your shield a chance to remove all movement imparing effects. That is as good as Hydraulic Overrides but with a longer CD.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Degauss doesn't prevent roots/snares like HO does as they can be immediately reapplied

 

I do consider HO a utility skill though, however I can see somebody wouldn't if they just looked at it as an escape skill. Between scoring in huttball, to being absolutely amazing to get to an objective to prevent a cap it brings a lot more than just an escape else. In coupled with grapple to get in range quick enough to grapple a ball carrier about to score.

 

My two cents.

[Karandor]

HO/HtL also makes you immune to knockbacks AND knockdowns (like the assassn skill spike). It is actually a great skill for offense and defense.

 

Combined with your 6s CD interrupt mercs/commandos are food for AP and you deal with snipers/gunslingers WAY better than pyro does. Also is great against the ubiquitous sorcerors and sages.

 

Pyro is a better spec than AP right now but I think after the patch in PvP AP will be equal or better.

[Hizoka]

With all due respect, the argument that it takes more "skill" to play an AP, due to staying within 10m OR for whatever reason is complete nonsense. Just because the tree has FLAWS that requires to do more things, doesnt mean it requires more skills. Because it boils down to the end result.

If it requires more skill to play AP and make it on par with any other AC, then it is logical to think that with such skills the AP would outperform other ACs or at the very least a Pyro. You put more "energy" not "skill" in AP, and the end result is STILL below your expectation. No one has an issue with playing a "difficult" AC, as long as there is reward associated with such. Otherwise, your mainly pointing out the flaws and shortcomings of the tree.

annihilation marauders require more "skill" to play then every other class and spec, so you are saying they are a broken class when someone who is good at is is able to dominate all other class's???

 

 

i have played pyro and AP... the gap is not a fraction of a large as people want to pretend it is. Just because a spec requires you to play differently does not make it broken. Hell by your claim marauders should be removed because only a handful of people are good enough at the class to make it perform well. AP is getting some small buffs that will make it flow better in pvp and pve.

 

Afterall this is a game and you play it to have fun if you think something is non viable because its DPS potential is possibly 5ish% behind another, then quit because that is marginal and can be swayed by RNG.

[TheOpf]

i have played pyro and AP... the gap is not a fraction of a large as people want to pretend it is. Just because a spec requires you to play differently does not make it broken. Hell by your claim marauders should be removed because only a handful of people are good enough at the class to make it perform well. AP is getting some small buffs that will make it flow better in pvp and pve.

 

It's broken on live because it's clunky and has skills that feel completely out of place. In pvp, it requires almost perfect rotation and time on target in order to look competent.

 

You can screw up an anni rotation and still look good. You can't do that with AP.

 

If you quell at the wrong time, aren't able to get PFT off, and spend half the fight chasing than you do almost nothing because the setup attacks of FB/Imm/RP don't hit hard enough by themselves to scare anyone.

 

The skill set between the two is the same, the style of play is completely different. A great player in AP can play great in Pyro much easier than a great player in Pyro can look great in AP. AP will never look as good as Pyro as it's currently constructed.

 

The main point that is being made is that a skilled player in Pyro will shine brighter than a skilled player in AP. This is absolutely true. However, a bad player in Pyro will be absolutely worthless as an AP. A bad AP player will find Pyro more forgiving damage wise. Not because of skill required, but because AP requires more perfection to pull off a portion of what Pyro can do.

 

Pyro is a better, smoother, more defined tree than AP is currently. therefore it makes no logical sense to play AP than Pyro on live. Why do more work to get less damage?

 

You are absolutely correct that 1.2 will smooth out alot of the difficulties of the AP tree.

 

Currently, Charged Gauntlets is so poorly done that it's almost better to ignore Rail shot. However in 1.2 Charged Gauntlets now triggers from damage dealt such that the bleed caused by Retractable Blade can trigger the buff. It now has a visual effect. This is my second favorite upgrade.

 

Prototype Flame Thrower now is granted a stack when Immolate is used. In addition, stacks make Flame Thrower immune to interrupt and at 5 stacks Flame Thrower will now slow the movement speed of targets by 70%. *UPDATED 3/23*

 

Is the biggest benefit you will see to pvp.

Edited April 6, 2012 by TheOpf

[TheOpf]

Knowing how to play a PT in general, you can really do away with the faster quell. The reason AP "needs" a faster quell is to substitute the burst of Pyro. As a pyro going after a healer, you start with Quell, burst, Carbonize, burst, stun, burst....by then you have quell available again, but in many cases, the healer is dead already. if the healer knocks you back, you grapple for yet another interrupt. I never fought any class and lost because quell was on cd.

 

I agree, but on live the reduced Quell is more important. Because there is almost no burst on the tree. In pyro, heck you can not quell sometimes and still blow a healer up.

[Agooz]

annihilation marauders require more "skill" to play then every other class and spec, so you are saying they are a broken class when someone who is good at is is able to dominate all other class's???

 

 

i have played pyro and AP... the gap is not a fraction of a large as people want to pretend it is. Just because a spec requires you to play differently does not make it broken. Hell by your claim marauders should be removed because only a handful of people are good enough at the class to make it perform well. AP is getting some small buffs that will make it flow better in pvp and pve.

 

Afterall this is a game and you play it to have fun if you think something is non viable because its DPS potential is possibly 5ish% behind another, then quit because that is marginal and can be swayed by RNG.

 

It is not a surprise that you miserably fail to understand my point. First of all it is not difficult to play a marauder. I am playing one right now. But I will give you that point. Let us all assume that to play a marauder, it requires a lot of "skill". What is the result of playing a marauder "skillfully"? The marauder becomes a real powerhouse in a WZ. You're with me so far? We all agree that, played right, marauders can dominate?

 

Ok now lets switch to AP. You are saying that it takes a lot more "skill" to play an AP. OOoook, I will "temporarily" give you that point. So lets assume we have someone playing an AP as "skillfully" as possible. What is the end result? Do we see APs dominating the WZs like "skilled" marauders? Hec I dont even see them doing better than a "less skillful" PT tank. Hence is my point that the tree is broken.

 

I do not mind if they make AP extremely difficult to play, and maybe I myself will never have the skills to play it, but there is gotta be some reward for choosing a difficult AC. If I saw just a handful of PTs/Vanguards playing this tree and dominating, I would have NEVER argued with you. But the fact that I cant even find ONE dominating anything outside of an AFK player, makes everything you say a complete joke.

[Agooz]

I agree, but on live the reduced Quell is more important. Because there is almost no burst on the tree. In pyro, heck you can not quell sometimes and still blow a healer up.

 

Yes that is why I said APs "NEED" the faster quell, to substitute for the lack of burst. So it ends up being a wash at best fighting a healer in AP or Pyro. Although I will ALWAYS take burst over faster quell, because like I said, quell isnt and was never our only way to interrupt.

 

Instead of faster Quell for AP, I would like to see the following:

Keep the same CD and same effect, but add 50% decrease in potency on the next 2 abilities used (whether heals or damage). Now THAT would be a nice boost. It would also make specs like Ironfist more appealing.

 

Along the same line, why not have RB apply a 10-15% stats debuff for 6sec? We all know that RB's damage is laughable. I think giving APs a "debuffer/dps" role in pvp would make it extremely interesting.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Agooz

[gravioli]

It seems like people are only concerned about dps when talking about powertechs, but I played against a team with an AP ball carrier and was amazed how good it is for carrying the huttball and escaping danger. I could also see it being useful in VS and CW to plant bomb/cap or to get somewhere quick enough to prevent these actions. I've got all the eliminator and combat tech BM gear and am considering trying it out. If I do I will report back with my results.

[Theology]

It seems like people are only concerned about dps when talking about powertechs, but I played against a team with an AP ball carrier and was amazed how good it is for carrying the huttball and escaping danger. I could also see it being useful in VS and CW to plant bomb/cap or to get somewhere quick enough to prevent these actions. I've got all the eliminator and combat tech BM gear and am considering trying it out. If I do I will report back with my results.

 

Once huttball is not the WZ people play 99% of the time, you'll find very little use for AP's bells and whistles.