AislingKerrigan Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You looked at five minutes of GW2 combat and think that makes you an expert on the game? *********** pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanblood Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 You looked at five minutes of GW2 combat and think that makes you an expert on the game? *********** pathetic Yep. Pretty like this. Should I write some thesis about it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amantheil Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I agree with your overall premise. I'm enjoying SWTOR and I think it's a solid game. But I have to take issue with some of what you're saying. 2. Voiceovers really make the difference. They make a difference, but not always a good one. They can be tedious when doing the same quests on a third character. They can be tedious when your character starts using the exact same responses. 3. The dialog options are so good for a MMO. Really. Morality choices are of the best I played before. You can be very evil, neutral or good. Only a few games arround offer this kind of choice, and none of them are MMOs. You may say those choices didn´t matter but they mattered to me, and to many others. Those choices defined my character and myself. I choosed the dark path and I still have remorse for taking some heartsplitting decisions. For the first time, I hadn´t just level up my character but I defined him with my choices too. I have to take a huge exception to this. I have the same complaint about SWTOR that I do with other Bioware games: what's the point of all these dialogue options when they all lead to the exact same thing? Very rarely does it have any effect on what happens. As for the morality choices - let's face it. They have NO impact on anything that happens in game. You may define your character based on them (and I defined mine) - but the truth of the matter is that gameplay is not affected. I can be an angel, or I can be a fallen Jedi who has completely turned to the dark side. Satelle Shan treats me the same regardless. EDIT: I forgot that the class quests can be very different based on morality, which is true. However, outside of those quests, there's no difference. WoW doesn´t offer this. No they don't, not any more. However, during the Burning Crusade, whether you chose Aldor or Scryer had a much, much bigger impact on anything that happened in game than SWTOR's dark side/light side choices. You had different quests, different flight hubs, different portions of the map were friendly or hostile. The vendors sold completely different items - not items with different names but identical stats. 4. SWTOR offer more chalenege. Heroics and Flashpoints are more difficult that the similar areas from WoW. You must group to complete them and this feature push people together. It´s good thing. Heroics yes. WoW had elite quests, but moved away from them because it was difficult to find groups while leveling up (a problem plaguing SWTOR heroics). Flashpoints - no. From what I personally have experienced WoW's dungeons are on average much harder than SWTOR's flashpoints. On Fatman, you can actually find a body even for a single player missions. "On Fatman" being the key point. It's very hard to find people on other servers. Later on you mentioned how hard it was to find groups in WoW. If the entire WoW population collapsed down to 1 or 2 servers, it would be easier to find groups there too. GW2 may eclipse SWTOR, but not so much. GW2 will not have voiceovers and cutscenes for every in-game quest. A point in GW2's favor, in my opinion. Cut-scenes and voice-overs are fine for class quests and some of the main planet quests. It's not necessary for every single generic side-quest. I don't need five minutes of dialogue just so some guy can tell me to go get five sand people rifles. Well. It´s not like WoW for sure. But areas are very big and extensive and every planet takes me some 20-30 hours to complete. The only difference is there is no gate to pass to another realm, But this is SW, you take a ship and travel to another planet. If you actually want SWTOR world be like WoW then the whole action must take place on one planet which is not ver appealing and plausible and characteristic for SW universe. No, it shouldn't be one world. But that doesn't mean planet-to-planet travel needs to be as obnoxious as it is now. Right now it is: run through generic spaceport -> run through generic hangar -> enter ship -> cut scene -> listen to annoying ship droid dialogue -.> navigate -> exit ship -> cut scene -> run through generic hangar -> enter generic spaceport. This could easily be made faster by having the elevator in the spaceport bring you directly to the ship (skipping the hangar and cut scene). And then when you exit the ship, you go directly to the spaceport (again skipping the hangar and cut scene). Ok...Now lets check briefly the main competitors of SWTOR. WoW. It will not affect SWTOR population at all. If you like Star Wars, you will like Star Wars. No pandas will change that. Besides new WoW expansion is all about the same. The same everything. Totally not ground breaking or innovative. . SWTOR is not ground breaking nor innovative as well. The companion system, especially for crafting and professions is innovative. I haven't seen much else that I would consider ground-breaking. I don't consider voice over to be that innovative. Especially since the actual quests are just the same type of quests as in any MMO. (Kill X number of monsters. Click X number of items. Retrieve X number of items from dead monsters). And, for all it's flaws, Blizzard has been as innovative as they can be, considering the age of the game engine. They introduced cross-server tools to find groups. They've used phasing technology extensively (sometimes too extensively). (If I'm wrong about Blizzard introducing these, someone please correct me). In the next expansion, they're completely changing their leveling system and removing the concept of talent trees. Terra. Its like WoW but with Pokemons. Yes, and a better combat. The rest is the same: NPCs with excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers. GW2. Its flaws. It keeps being like WoW. Yes...more mature...better combat...choices affect the world but...NPCs have excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers, killing stuff by hundreds. How does having an exclamation mark floating above a character's head really differ from having a floating triangle? I've already given my opinion on whether it's really necessary to have voice over for every single quest/mission. And as I said before, SWTOR's quests/missions aren't particularly innovative either. Edited April 4, 2012 by amantheil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparklehorse Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You looked at five minutes of GW2 combat and think that makes you an expert on the game? *********** pathetic I've watched probably about 5-10 minutes of footage and I can tell it's not gonna be my cup of tea as well. Does a person need a PHD to know when a game looks like crap to them now? I must have missed the memo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AislingKerrigan Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I've watched probably about 5-10 minutes of footage and I can tell it's not gonna be my cup of tea as well. Does a person need a PHD to know when a game looks like crap to them now? I must have missed the memo. Right because 5-10 minutes of TOR gameplay doesn't look like crap? God you people are impossible. I'm out. Enjoy your ****** game while it lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I love this MMO but I would kill a thousand bothans to get night/day cycles +weather and open world pvp based of conquering planets or cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanblood Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Right because 5-10 minutes of TOR gameplay doesn't look like crap? God you people are impossible. I'm out. Enjoy your ****** game while it lasts. Oh. Thank you. I will. I don´t know what ****** means. I bet somthing positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amantheil Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Right because 5-10 minutes of TOR gameplay doesn't look like crap? God you people are impossible. I'm out. Enjoy your ****** game while it lasts. What's worse? Being the "fanboy" and blindly defending criticism of a game that's actually been released? Or blindly defending a game that just started Beta? At least the SWTOR fanboys are defending a product that's actually on the market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lencelotte Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I'm not a fan boy, Just started playing SWTOR since BETA... Still I liked it... Compared to other MMOs that all you do is grind... In SWTOR you can play single player and Multiplayer, you have a choice... If you're into the story of the game you'll enjoy the voice overs... But if not then focus on PvP and Raids... In WoW, what do you have? I played WarCraft(Just WarCraft) for a long time and I admit I was addicted to the story... There are different types of players, there are player who's into the Story line, players into PvP, players into Hunting for Items... The game is just turning 4 MONTHS OLD, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? All gaming companies are trying to adjust their games for the players... So stop whining... There will never be a perfect MMO for people who doesn't get what they want... Edited April 4, 2012 by Lencelotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 And those 2 ops are stupid easy. Boring mechanics, only challenging thing about them is there are so many bugs that causes you to wipe. FPs? Whats the point? You can just pvp and gear up and go straight to HM OPs. When I want to do a Flashpoint, it would take me hours to even try to put a group together. I don't because I don't like spamming LFG in general chat and look dumb. I know this might be a silly concept to you but not everyone does flashpoints just to gear up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Right because 5-10 minutes of TOR gameplay doesn't look like crap? God you people are impossible. I'm out. Enjoy your ****** game while it lasts. we got it, TOR is bad, GW2 is superawesome. doesn't change one thing: in 2010 and 2011 I tried both games at Gamescom. in 2010 and 2011 I liked TOR and disliked GW2. in fact, I stopped playing GW2 after about ~5 min in '11 and gave my sister the spot because it's the kind of game she enjoys. different people like different things. and low and behold, there are people who like GW2 .and. TOR (my sister, again) Edited April 4, 2012 by amnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilingdeath Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If you unsubbed, what are you doing posting here? move along to go hate another mmorpg, there are plenty out there. Im waiting for GW2 to release, so all the haters and doom and gloom players go over there and be dissapointed there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathlight- Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I have a feeling people who gloat about GW2 killing this game are GW2 beta rejects who take out their frustration on TOR. Edited April 4, 2012 by Pathlight- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I have a feeling people who gloat about GW2 killing this game are GW2 beta rejects who take out their frustration on TOR. Yeah cause if they actually were in the beta, they would know it's rather crap. To be honest, I don't understand why anyone even spouts that mantra. Every single game has supposedly killed WoW. New games don't kill old games. Old games kill themselves with idiotic design decisions. WAR is a perfect example. The game would have been a huge success had they made changes to a certain class that could wipe a whole raid with 3 people supporting it. If they'd only listen to people who said that RvR needs more variation and not just personal gains. If only they would have had some meaningful ways for guilds to affect the gameworld. But no, it was more important to make horribly bugged PvE content that no one really cared about anyways. If BW doesn't focus on long-term content like player cities and meaningful planetary control mechanisms to make it a war, people will lose interest, even more so than they already have. A meaningful treadmill is what keeps the gamers gaming. Casuals will come and go and sadly, it's a finite number. What people do not seem to get is that WoW has such high numbers because at the time TBC hit, there was *nothing* else on the market worth even spitting at. WoW wasn't that special or goundbreaking but it WORKED. That's all that was desired at the time. A game that WORKED. Today, if you want to succeed as an MMO game, you have to do more than what we have. Why the hell would anyone who isn't a roleplayer and doesn't care about the story, stay? There is 0 reason to. You can find better and more polished mechanics elsewhere. You can find more interesting content elsewhere. You can find more fleshed out PvP systems, elsewhere. How in the world does BW think people will form a community when there aren't any tools or reasons to do so? Everything can be pugged and there is 0 social activities that keep people interested. Tell me, what can you do as a guild that you can't do as a random 8 man group? Oh, that's right, *nothing*. The game has potential and I, personally, love the leveling process and stories. Apart from 3 people, my 100+ member guild is dead. I have full end-game set on my main and I don't pvp because I'm terrible at it. So, why would I stay after I've done all the base class stories? 0 reason to as there is nothing meaningful to build towards as a community, you might as well reset every character to lvl1 once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 If you unsubbed, what are you doing posting here? move along to go hate another mmorpg, there are plenty out there. Im waiting for GW2 to release, so all the haters and doom and gloom players go over there and be dissapointed there too. Yeah but only there Mike O'Brien has already said that if you make more than a couple inflammatory posts you can kiss your account (not forum account game account) goodbye. I'm going to laugh my *** off when the GW2 Zealots find out what many of us beta testers have already learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LrdScorpio Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I think a big issue with these threads is that everyone has a different benchmark for success. A lot of people compare this game to Wow like somehow this game will not be successful if it doesn't break 5million or get to 10million. The game just has to keep enough subs to stay profitable. It doesn't matter if it has tons of subscribers over that. AoC and WAR were games that eyed the huge numbers and fell on their face. BW seems to have targeted a certain type of player, they have stated the subscription number they need (500,000) and I am confident they can maintain that. Everything on top of that is gravy and not something that would be wise to shoot for before the first xpac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Originally Posted by Jandi I don't know... ASKING other players if they want to do a flashpoint or a heroic? You know, like... whisper them? Your computer won't explode, I promise. Sorry I guess I am to blame for this then. I don't like opening /who 50 and then go down the list and ask every single players " Hey LF dps/heals/tank for HM EV". I don't know, I guess it works for you but does not cut it for me. Typing LFG in general in a smarter way to do it instead of "whispering", try it your computer won't explode, I promise. LOL you would be put on ignore very fast if you started whispering to everyone to group up uninvited/unencouraged. Thats what General channel is for. But your right, people dont group up, The other guy telling you this nonsense is justa fanboi blindly defending with out using realistic and logical counter points, because there is none. But on the up side, whispering to 10 people online during prime time hours isnt all that time consuming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 SWToR: The #1 single-player SciFi MMO on the market. It is what it is... take it or leave it. Actually thats wrong! SWTOR: The #1 Massively Single Player RPG on the market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 It's a great game. All those moaning are just angry that their doomsday predictions didn't come right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 It's a fantastic game when played the way it's supposed to be played... New content doesn't mean crap if nobody is around to play it, unfortunately this game is an MMO which means the developers have to make a commitment to keep people around. Love the game, hate trying to pvp with the same 11 people total in WZ's during primetime hours. Until the devs acknowledge the population issues, it's a 3/10. If there ever is a server emulator, i'll stick to that since it will be free and all i'm doing is single player anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yapdog Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 1 word.....Boring a few more words, "I've offically cancelled my subscription" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I think a big issue with these threads is that everyone has a different benchmark for success. A lot of people compare this game to Wow like somehow this game will not be successful if it doesn't break 5million or get to 10million. The game just has to keep enough subs to stay profitable. It doesn't matter if it has tons of subscribers over that. AoC and WAR were games that eyed the huge numbers and fell on their face. BW seems to have targeted a certain type of player, they have stated the subscription number they need (500,000) and I am confident they can maintain that. Everything on top of that is gravy and not something that would be wise to shoot for before the first xpac That is fine, nobody is faulting them because the game isn't wow... Stop being a fanboy and listen to me: We are upset NOT because this game isn't wow...we are upset because the dev's think it's wow. 500,000...even 250,000 total subscribers is A'ok with me; BUT they NEED to MERGE servers. This IS NOT wow and they NEED to consolidate in a major, major way. There are 15 servers too many atm. Edited April 4, 2012 by Kurfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LrdScorpio Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 That is fine, nobody is faulting them because the game isn't wow... Stop being a fanboy and listen to me: We are upset NOT because this game isn't wow...we are upset because the dev's think it's wow. 500,000...even 250,000 total subscribers is A'ok with me; BUT they NEED to MERGE servers. This IS NOT wow and they NEED to consolidate in a major, major way. There are 15 servers too many atm. Fanboy.. most overused word on a forum. Says a lot about you really but all of that troll stuff aside... I agree they need to merge servers eventually but disagree that they should do so immediately. That would be as foolish as releasing too many at launch. Sit back, collect data and make a thoughtful decision. The game has been out for like 3 months and most of the issues people have would have no chance of being resolved in this short amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfer Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Fanboy.. most overused word on a forum. Says a lot about you really but all of that troll stuff aside... I agree they need to merge servers eventually but disagree that they should do so immediately. That would be as foolish as releasing too many at launch. Sit back, collect data and make a thoughtful decision. The game has been out for like 3 months and most of the issues people have would have no chance of being resolved in this short amount of time. That is a fanboy response dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanblood Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) I agree with your overall premise. I'm enjoying SWTOR and I think it's a solid game. But I have to take issue with some of what you're saying. Quote: Originally Posted by Ivanblood 2. Voiceovers really make the difference. They make a difference, but not always a good one. They can be tedious when doing the same quests on a third character. They can be tedious when your character starts using the exact same responses. These are minor annoyances that doesn´t break the gameplay. One week dialog doesn´t nullify the whole quality of the rest. Quote: 3. The dialog options are so good for a MMO. Really. Morality choices are of the best I played before. You can be very evil, neutral or good. Only a few games arround offer this kind of choice, and none of them are MMOs. You may say those choices didn´t matter but they mattered to me, and to many others. Those choices defined my character and myself. I choosed the dark path and I still have remorse for taking some heartsplitting decisions. For the first time, I hadn´t just level up my character but I defined him with my choices too. I have to take a huge exception to this. I have the same complaint about SWTOR that I do with other Bioware games: what's the point of all these dialogue options when they all lead to the exact same thing? Very rarely does it have any effect on what happens. As for the morality choices - let's face it. They have NO impact on anything that happens in game. You may define your character based on them (and I defined mine) - but the truth of the matter is that gameplay is not affected. I can be an angel, or I can be a fallen Jedi who has completely turned to the dark side. Satelle Shan treats me the same regardless. EDIT: I forgot that the class quests can be very different based on morality, which is true. However, outside of those quests, there's no difference. Maybe the choices doesn´t have an impact in game, but they had a certain impact on me and my character. I went fully for the dark path. Many killing decisions were so hard to take and heartsplitting for me. But , on other side, they fit so well into my character role. I loved how realistic the reaction of many NPCs was. They cried, yelled, sweared and cursed me, but the scenes were so epic and dramatic that I felt myself being a part of a Shakespeare tragedy. So at the end, I realized that I was not only levelling up my character, but actually ROLE PLAYING my character. Or maybe it´s only my imagination:p This is a big feature that put SWTOR aside from its competitors. And I´d like to preserve it. Quote: 4. SWTOR offer more chalenege. Heroics and Flashpoints are more difficult that the similar areas from WoW. You must group to complete them and this feature push people together. It´s good thing. Heroics yes. WoW had elite quests, but moved away from them because it was difficult to find groups while leveling up (a problem plaguing SWTOR heroics). Flashpoints - no. From what I personally have experienced WoW's dungeons are on average much harder than SWTOR's flashpoints. Quote: On Fatman, you can actually find a body even for a single player missions. "On Fatman" being the key point. It's very hard to find people on other servers. Later on you mentioned how hard it was to find groups in WoW. If the entire WoW population collapsed down to 1 or 2 servers, it would be easier to find groups there too. My grouping experience in WoW was bad, more specifically, none. But on my first standard server I was able to complete all heroics except Nar Shaddaa´s bonus series ones. Then I moved to Fatman. Since then I put zero effort into finding a group, with so huge population is not an issue anymore. Quote: GW2 may eclipse SWTOR, but not so much. GW2 will not have voiceovers and cutscenes for every in-game quest. A point in GW2's favor, in my opinion. Cut-scenes and voice-overs are fine for class quests and some of the main planet quests. It's not necessary for every single generic side-quest. I don't need five minutes of dialogue just so some guy can tell me to go get five sand people rifles. Quote: Voiceovers add a huge chunk of immersion. Yep...some time they are trivial and shallow. For that cases exists a space bar. But as I said already, It´s better have them than not. But nothing is totally perfect. Well. It´s not like WoW for sure. But areas are very big and extensive and every planet takes me some 20-30 hours to complete. The only difference is there is no gate to pass to another realm, But this is SW, you take a ship and travel to another planet. If you actually want SWTOR world be like WoW then the whole action must take place on one planet which is not ver appealing and plausible and characteristic for SW universe. No, it shouldn't be one world. But that doesn't mean planet-to-planet travel needs to be as obnoxious as it is now. Right now it is: run through generic spaceport -> run through generic hangar -> enter ship -> cut scene -> listen to annoying ship droid dialogue -.> navigate -> exit ship -> cut scene -> run through generic hangar -> enter generic spaceport. I actually like it as it is now. It adds some immersion too. How many time do you need to travel from one planet to another ? I only once a day travel to the fleet. A fleet pass works fine for me, it saves me a lot of time. But everyone has own tastes. I am one of those old role players that need a bit of suffering only to not break an immersion. Quote: Ok...Now lets check briefly the main competitors of SWTOR. WoW. It will not affect SWTOR population at all. If you like Star Wars, you will like Star Wars. No pandas will change that. Besides new WoW expansion is all about the same. The same everything. Totally not ground breaking or innovative. . SWTOR is not ground breaking nor innovative as well. The companion system, especially for crafting and professions is innovative. I haven't seen much else that I would consider ground-breaking. I don't consider voice over to be that innovative. Especially since the actual quests are just the same type of quests as in any MMO. (Kill X number of monsters. Click X number of items. Retrieve X number of items from dead monsters). And, for all it's flaws, Blizzard has been as innovative as they can be, considering the age of the game engine. They introduced cross-server tools to find groups. They've used phasing technology extensively (sometimes too extensively). (If I'm wrong about Blizzard introducing these, someone please correct me). In the next expansion, they're completely changing their leveling system and removing the concept of talent trees. Quote: Terra. Its like WoW but with Pokemons. Yes, and a better combat. The rest is the same: NPCs with excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers. GW2. Its flaws. It keeps being like WoW. Yes...more mature...better combat...choices affect the world but...NPCs have excalamation sings floating overhead, text boxes for the missions, no voiceovers, killing stuff by hundreds. How does having an exclamation mark floating above a character's head really differ from having a floating triangle? I've already given my opinion on whether it's really necessary to have voice over for every single quest/mission. And as I said before, SWTOR's quests/missions aren't particularly innovative either. I am not saying that SWTOR is the best MMO ever. I just point to your attention that none of the upcomming MMOs will be ground breaking. They will not be enourmously superior to SWTOR, but only in some aspects, and in other aspects SWTOR will be better. This is it. At the end, what MMO to play will depend on your fancies, there will not be a clear winner. If you like swords and magic, you will certainly move to WoW, Terra or GW2. SWTOR just doesn´t have all allures to keep everyone. But SWTOR holds monopoly on ScFi and SW, so a good chunk of players will stay with SWTOR . Edited April 4, 2012 by Ivanblood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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