Valor<50 -- Why PvP Prior to 1.2?

[Graushwein]

i respect that you have a family, but honestly, do you think you should get the same rewards as someone who plays 2-3 times more than you? a casual player cant expect hardcore gear. that isnt how it works.

 

I never said I expected hardcore gear. Learn to think.

[radbass]

This is why I normally don't make forum posts. Discussions rarely happen. It most often turns into a disapointing case study on intelligence and comprehension, or lack thereof!

 

I've already said I like PvP, but that isn't relevant to the topic.

I don't have enough time to get to Battlemaster gear.

All effort expended beyond the 1k WZ commendation cap will be devalued to a third.

 

What would the PvP community do if Battlemaster gear wouldn't be updated and equivalent to recruit gear? The same Trolls in this thread would be moaning and threatening rage-quits by the hundreds because they "earned" the, soon to be worthless, BM gear! As all of these "FUN" posters have BM gear, their views are clearly biased towards their own elite statuses, which is juvenile and makes thier statements nearly invalid. Your game time is worth no more than mine. In-game effort should be similarly affected accross the board, not just certain groups. I find it so sad that there are so many narcissist gamers that would rather flaunt their "elite status" than empathize with another human being! Instead we're being inundated with people who also lack the mental discipline and capacity to stick to a plainly stated topic.

 

The main point of my argument is that the avid gamer's time/effort is being favored by BioWare while the more casual gamer's time/effort is nearly negated due to the fact that the EXPERTISE SYSTEM was changed. Avid gamer-level gear is being updated to be in line with the new system, so they do not lose comparative effectiveness. Yes new gear will be better, which I'd be fine with if casual gamer gear were updated to be slightly above recruit gear.

 

BioWare has a choice in whether they upgrade Champion and Centurion gear. It is a conscious decision.

 

From a perspective of getting better gear for PvP, it currently makes no sense to PvP if you aren't able to get to Battlemaster gear in the next few weeks beyond 1k WZ commendations. Your Merc commendations will be woth 1/3rd the effort you spent pre patch.

 

 

god dude your priorities are really messed up. you do realize ur playing game right? if the shiny is all important, than buy recruit gear and keep working toward the next shiny. if you enjoy playing the game, it shouldnt matter. so what if the gear you "earned" is worthless now? you can immediately replace it. and you still spent all that time p[laying a GAME and having fun. now, if you didnt have fun, maybe you should be playing a different game.

[cupofwater]

because you'll need to save at least 2000 comms for BM!

 

IMHO, as a tester and someone with alts that have always pvp'd for gear, the gear is useless now for 2 main reasons. 1) the cost has doubled 550 for a vis, 900 wep from 14-49. 2) The new crafted gear has aug slots and the pvp gear does not. That's 5-7 extra slots per item, which can be quite a large advantage if you aug them right.

 

Yeh, orange gear with only augments is so good.

 

NEWSFLASH:

 

You have to take the mods/enhancements/armorings out of the pvp gear you already have or obtained to create a competitive orange set.

[Sorcerix]

This is why I normally don't make forum posts. Discussions rarely happen. It most often turns into a disapointing case study on intelligence and comprehension, or lack thereof!

 

I've already said I like PvP, but that isn't relevant to the topic.

I don't have enough time to get to Battlemaster gear.

All effort expended beyond the 1k WZ commendation cap will be devalued to a third.

 

What would the PvP community do if Battlemaster gear wouldn't be updated and equivalent to recruit gear? The same Trolls in this thread would be moaning and threatening rage-quits by the hundreds because they "earned" the, soon to be worthless, BM gear! As all of these "FUN" posters have BM gear, their views are clearly biased towards their own elite statuses, which is juvenile and makes thier statements nearly invalid. Your game time is worth no more than mine. In-game effort should be similarly affected accross the board, not just certain groups. I find it so sad that there are so many narcissist gamers that would rather flaunt their "elite status" than empathize with another human being! Instead we're being inundated with people who also lack the mental discipline and capacity to stick to a plainly stated topic.

 

The main point of my argument is that the avid gamer's time/effort is being favored by BioWare while the more casual gamer's time/effort is nearly negated due to the fact that the EXPERTISE SYSTEM was changed. Avid gamer-level gear is being updated to be in line with the new system, so they do not lose comparative effectiveness. Yes new gear will be better, which I'd be fine with if casual gamer gear were updated to be slightly above recruit gear.

 

BioWare has a choice in whether they upgrade Champion and Centurion gear. It is a conscious decision.

 

From a perspective of getting better gear for PvP, it currently makes no sense to PvP if you aren't able to get to Battlemaster gear in the next few weeks beyond 1k WZ commendations. Your Merc commendations will be woth 1/3rd the effort you spent pre patch.

 

+10

 

PS. I also prefer to not make forum posts because of gems like this:

... ITS A NEW GAME WHEN YOU PLAY A GAME AT LAUNCH YOU HAVE TO EXPECT THINGS LIKE THIS IF YOU DONT LIKE IT MAYBE YOU SHOULDNT HAVE BOUGHT THE GAME SO SOON AFTER LAUNCH

 

Can't argue with that logic.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Sorcerix

[radbass]

+10

 

PS. I also prefer to not make forum posts because of gems like this:

\.

 

perhaps you should read the context in which something is said before you bash it. i was mocking another posters tendency to use big blue letters.

[Varicite]

Except you could still use the last generation smart phone if you wanted to without being penalized. If you set foot into a WZ post 1.2 in centurion or champion gear you WILL be destroyed. That is the whole point. Anyone who has come over from WoW or any other MMO knows about the whole gear treadmill that constitutes endgame MMOs. In WoW my S1 arena gear wasn't suddenly useless when S2 started, I could use that gear to build upon until my S2 set was complete.

 

BW isn't updated the stats on centurion or champion gear. Both sets will be sub par to a set anyone can buy for 320k credits or so. 2 months of grinding replaced by 320k credits worth of gear. It is demoralizing, which is why the OP and myself are frustrated, its not that we don't enjoy the competition and strategy (lawl) involved in SWTOR pvp. We're just frustrated that the day 1.2 goes live most or all of our gear will be inferior to the new Recruit set which anyone can buy in its entirety from day one.

 

You talk about S1. Were you this upset when TBC came out and all of your "hard-earned" Vanilla epics were replaced on day 1 by lv58 green drops from random mobs in Hellfire that you didn't even have to pay for?

 

Did you rant and rave at Blizzard for obsoleting your old gear set w/ a completely new set of gear?

 

You can still use your Cent/Champ gear to build upon if you want, just like S1. Or you can buy the starter PvP set and be on equal footing as everyone else.

 

Sorry you feel like you wasted your time, but people needed to be put back on equal footing on terms of gear (especially after the Ilum valor exploit souring peoples' opinion of anyone's valor level and rated WZs coming out soon).

 

Good of the many outweighs the good of the few and all that jazz.

[Varicite]

What would the PvP community do if Battlemaster gear wouldn't be updated and equivalent to recruit gear? The same Trolls in this thread would be moaning and threatening rage-quits by the hundreds because they "earned" the, soon to be worthless, BM gear!

 

The BM gear is horribly itemized, dripping w/ accuracy on all the mods. Bioware acknowledged this and told us to replace them w/ other mods.

 

Because I did what Bioware told me to do in order to maximize my potential, the mods that I replaced won't be updating to the new BM gear when 1.2 comes out.

 

It will be somewhere around Champion gear level, which you are saying will be around or worse than Recruit gear level. If it is, I'll just buy the new set for 320k. That's a lot cheaper than I thought it'd be.

 

You don't see me here whining about it. : )

[Valerii]

I stopped pvping with my dps sorc which is valor 58, the day the patch notes for 1.2 were released. No use grinding out BM gear, when it will be far easier to get in 1.2, but more importantly, I'm not sure dps sorc will even be worth playing in 1.2.

[Varicite]

I stopped pvping with my dps sorc which is valor 58, the day the patch notes for 1.2 were released. No use grinding out BM gear, when it will be far easier to get in 1.2, but more importantly, I'm not sure dps sorc will even be worth playing in 1.2.

 

I'm keeping my 0/23/18 hybrid. There doesn't seem to be a single reason why it won't continue to be the best spec for PvP.

 

Wrath is broken, but Lightning Storm and Forked Lightning still work. : )

[yeux]

Yeh, orange gear with only augments is so good.

 

NEWSFLASH:

 

You have to take the mods/enhancements/armorings out of the pvp gear you already have or obtained to create a competitive orange set.

 

omg changing mods? thatll destroy any market for them. if only there were vendors on every planet or crew skills or drops/quests that offered these mods/enhancements... gasp, they might even have to take the mods out of their non pvp orange gear!

[eanamdar]

I'm for whatever removes, or diminishes, the gear focus in this game.

[Sorcerix]

You talk about S1. Were you this upset when TBC came out and all of your "hard-earned" Vanilla epics were replaced on day 1 by lv58 green drops from random mobs in Hellfire that you didn't even have to pay for?

 

Did you rant and rave at Blizzard for obsoleting your old gear set w/ a completely new set of gear?

 

...

 

Content patches != New Expansions. Comparing Vanilla > TBC scenario with Patch 1.1.5 > 1.2 is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

 

perhaps you should read the context in which something is said before you bash it. i was mocking another posters tendency to use big blue letters.

 

Which further validates my post about relevant topic discussions (or lack of).

[Celebrus]

You talk about S1. Were you this upset when TBC came out and all of your "hard-earned" Vanilla epics were replaced on day 1 by lv58 green drops from random mobs in Hellfire that you didn't even have to pay for?

 

Did you rant and rave at Blizzard for obsoleting your old gear set w/ a completely new set of gear?

 

You can still use your Cent/Champ gear to build upon if you want, just like S1. Or you can buy the starter PvP set and be on equal footing as everyone else.

 

Sorry you feel like you wasted your time, but people needed to be put back on equal footing on terms of gear (especially after the Ilum valor exploit souring peoples' opinion of anyone's valor level and rated WZs coming out soon).

 

Good of the many outweighs the good of the few and all that jazz.

 

 

Vanilla wow's release date: November 2004.

 

Burning Crusade's release date: January 2007.

 

That means it took over two years for myself and others to level to 60 and deplete the content of vanilla wow AND for Blizzard's response to it to come.

 

It took those same people less than half a year to do the same to SWToR. Lets just be polite and say the game is "lacking".

Edited April 4, 2012 by Celebrus

[kantnerfme]

i'm glad they made it easier, gaming is about having fun and not spend 10hours in front of it simple to grind a gear.

once a game becomes work it's no more fun.

[Varicite]

Content patches != New Expansions. Comparing Vanilla > TBC scenario with Patch 1.1.5 > 1.2 is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

No, because I am comparing the beginning of Arena Season 1 and its "pre-season" to the beginning of Rated Warzones Season 1 and its pre-season.

 

Gear gets obsoleted, and WoW has certainly showed it doesn't need to wait entire expansion cycles to do so, as it proves w/ each new raid tier content patch.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Varicite

[Varicite]

Vanilla wow's release date: November 2004.

 

Burning Crusade's release date: January 2007.

 

That means it took over two years for myself and others to level to 60 and deplete the content of vanilla wow AND for Blizzard's response to it to come.

 

It took those same people less than half a year to do the same to SWToR. Lets just be polite and say the game is "lacking".

 

That's... not at all what that means. Do you have any clue what content WoW launched w/ compared to SWTOR? <.<

 

I mean, you say you were there, but I kinda question it if you think it's even comparable.

 

If you were comparing WoW TODAY against SWTOR launch, I might be more inclined to understand you.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Varicite

[Celebrus]

No, because I am comparing the beginning of Arena Season 1 and its "pre-season" to the beginning of Rated Warzones Season 1 and its pre-season.

 

Gear gets obsoleted, and WoW has certainly showed it doesn't need to wait entire expansion cycles to do so, as it proves w/ each new raid tier content patch.

 

Soft gear resets are part of the reason that people flocked from wow to this game.

 

We were told to expect different things, instead we got the same things that we were tired of.

[crrypto]

I think most of us (I have a Valor 54 Merc) are rolling alts or enjoying other facets of the game in the meantime. I queue every now and then to pwn some face but I'm not getting any benefit besides Valor.

[Celebrus]

That's... not at all what that means. Do you have any clue what content WoW launched w/ compared to SWTOR? <.<

 

I mean, you say you were there, but I kinda question it if you think it's even comparable.

 

If you were comparing WoW TODAY against SWTOR launch, I might be more inclined to understand you.

 

The only relevant content in WoW today is whatever came in the most recent content patch of Cataclysm so I can understand why you would view that as a fair comparison. They routinely obsolete things (not just gear) because they are expanding the game vertically rather than horizontally, which is where SWToR is heading.

 

This is WoW with lightsabers, if BW has proven anything with 1.2, it's that they cannot veer from the path that big brother wow's footprints provide.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Celebrus

[NDiggy]

Do they have to explain the most obvious things? Because BM is the current end game PVP armor. Champion gear is nothing more then a point in your progress to BM gear. Champion is nothing more then companion gear to people already at end game.

 

You're NOT being penalized, valor is easier to get then ever and so is the gear and it's getting easier in 1.2.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever. 1.2 is supposed to be the pre-season for ranked WZs and the idea of introducing recruit gear and changing the scaling on expertise, thus lowering the barriers for entry into PvP. Essentially BW wants everyone to start all over in the PvP gear grind. Everyone except those lucky enough to have had the time to grind out a full set of BM gear. For some reason their gear will bet updated stats and remain relevant. This makes no sense and is counter intuitive to what BW wants to accomplish in 1.2 with a gear reset for PvP.

 

I don't see how we're not being penalized. If we already had our full BM set we'd be fine, but because we didn't have the time or luck to have the valor ranking necessary and the badge drops to attain a full BM set our gear progression is voided and we have to start again with everyone else. That makes no sense. Why is the time someone spent grinding BM gear worth more than the time I spent grinding out the gear I have?

 

If BW didn't update the stats on old pvp gear then at least I could accept that from a logical perspective because they want to introduce new gear and not have new people to the game be at a huge disadvantage in pvp like most of us late comers were in the early months of TOR's release. They didn't do that though. Essentially BW is telling one group of players that they matter and the other group that they don't matter. That is what is frustrating.

[nToxiK]

If you are an armormech or synthweaver, you will need certain levels of Valor to buy the schematics to craft BM and War Hero gear (mod-able shells). Edited April 4, 2012 by nToxiK

[Celebrus]

There are people that leveled to 50, cleared ToR's content, and had unsubbed before their free month had run dry.

 

When your game's content has been completely consumed before people have even paid a subscription dollar, it is lacking.

 

Not much room for debate, sorry.

 

Any chance you could point me to someone that hit level 60, cleared MC, and quit, before the first month of WoW's life?

Edited April 4, 2012 by Celebrus

[NDiggy]

You talk about S1. Were you this upset when TBC came out and all of your "hard-earned" Vanilla epics were replaced on day 1 by lv58 green drops from random mobs in Hellfire that you didn't even have to pay for?

 

Did you rant and rave at Blizzard for obsoleting your old gear set w/ a completely new set of gear?

 

You can still use your Cent/Champ gear to build upon if you want, just like S1. Or you can buy the starter PvP set and be on equal footing as everyone else.

 

Sorry you feel like you wasted your time, but people needed to be put back on equal footing on terms of gear (especially after the Ilum valor exploit souring peoples' opinion of anyone's valor level and rated WZs coming out soon).

 

Good of the many outweighs the good of the few and all that jazz.

 

1) You're comparing 1.2 to a new expansion. No one expects to keep the same gear they had at level 60 in Vanilla WoW when they hit 70 in BC. Its essentially an entirely new game and isn't an accurate comparison to what is happening in 1.2. This would be like Blizzard changing the way Resilience works between seasons, and then saying they're going to update the stats only on the 2200+ rated gear and not anything else for the coming season, but they're going to introduce a new blue set of pvp gear that is better for pvp than all the arena gear you grinding out last season even though its lower level than what you currently worked to get.

 

2) There is no using cent or champ gear to build upon. The 128 rating Recruit gear is simply better for pvp in most respects than the 136 rating Champion gear.

 

3) If they were really putting people back on equal footing in terms of gear, then the Battlemaster gear would not be receiving updated stats. So not everyone is having their gear reset for the upcoming Pre-season, just those of us that didn't have time to grind out BM gear. I'd have no issues with BW if they wanted to start from a clean slate as far as pvp goes, but that isn't what they're doing. For some reason they're letting people with BM gear keep their advantage over everyone else and even widening the gap between those with and without BM gear.

 

Currently there isn't a huge gap between someone in full Champ and someone in full BM gear. That will change drastically in 1.2. I've already spent my time having my face kicked in by War Hero pre-mades grinding out my gear so I can be almost on equal footing with those people. Now BW is saying I'm the one that has to start all over again but not those people that already had the best pvp gear in the game. It makes no sense and it flat out isn't fair.

[Varicite]

Soft gear resets are part of the reason that people flocked from wow to this game.

 

We were told to expect different things, instead we got the same things that we were tired of.

 

That's valid reasoning.

 

I do think the gearing resets will not be nearly as drastic going into future seasons, but due to past bugs (valor exploit) and the climate of gear differences in PvP (and the many changes to earning Valor requiring different amounts of effort so far for the same end result), Bioware made the call to just put everyone on equal footing for the start of Rated WZs.

 

SWTOR in 1.2 will still boast far more customizable gearing options than WoW, being able to modify every single slot on almost every piece of gear that you are wearing.

 

I think of this more like when Blizzard decided to let PvPers purchase the S1 Arena set from PvP vendors for honor in order to combat the huge gear gap caused by S3/T3 weapons and armor for people just entering Arena.

 

In later seasons, Blizzard made sure to keep an entry level set on PvP vendors that was updated to remain somewhat "competitive" w/ the current season. I think this is what BW is intending for the future.

[Graushwein]

Jestunhi

You might as well cancel your sub until the final gear-introducing patch before the game closes down with this attitude.

Gear will continue to get better to give people who only care about gear a reason to continue paying a monthly sub. It's the same reason that MMO's tend to increase the level cap.

If you can't handle that now you won't be able to handle it next time it happens either.

Ah, the formulaic "If you don't like one small thing then you should rage-quit." Truly, ignorance is bliss. It must be so nice to not think about how much you don't understand.

 

radbass

its simple. BM is being updated because it STILL EXISTS. why should bioware spend time and money updating gear that is no longer obtainable and easily replacable?

An actual point in support of your stance that almost contains logical progression! This one has potential. I'm going to have to start watching out for your posts.

 

 

TDRedmage

Do you have BM gear?

 

 

yukirshiro

Newsflash: Gear-based MMOs do gear resets periodically. If they set up their game as a gear grind - which this game does, in both PVE and PVP - what possible reason would they have to let you buy all the new gear on patch day?

The topic has to do with spectrum of player effort is treated fairly with respect to the PvP gear echelons in the event of a system change. Feel free to try again.

 

dirtyv

If not... then PVP, have fun, get new gear, stop complaining so much. The game is not going anywhere. Everyone is in the same boat.

Ooh, a conditional statement! But let me give you a tip, try not to be so obvious when you contradict yourself, refrencing that last sentence. You previously admitted that you are aware that the sub-BM gear will be of less worth and to just buy the recruit armor and work towards the improved BM gear. But now you are saying that the types of gear are in the same boat/situation. People tend to stop putting stock into your words when you contradict yourself.

 

anstalt

I 100% guaruntee you that players in champion gear will beat players in recruit gear, assuming equal skill/balance etc.

Wow, I can't argue with that logic... Oh, except for the fact that your words are not relevant.

 

Sorcerix

When you spend 2 months grinding gear, and log in after a patch and suddenly you are able to instantly buy better gear than what you grinded, then something is wrong.

In wow you could also buy blue entry level pvp gear. If you wanted season tier gear you had to work for it and the wow tier gear didn't instantly become useless after 1 patch - that's the difference!

+10. And a thank you to the others, like Sorcerix and me, that agree with the Mensa ideals!

 

Jestunhi

Stop playing MMORPGs if you don't want this.

You quoted Jestunhi's post exampling WOW's not doing this, then went on to say all MMOs do this without support. Did your special reasoning abilities confound you to the point that you didn't even notice that you've made no sense and contradicted yourself at the same time?

 

 

Schwarzwald

"Seriously, why PvP before 1.2?"

BM gear is required to buy warhero. People who currently have BM gear will get to warhero much faster then those without.

Woah champ, what about that whole forum topic about not having the Valor to get BM gear... Nah, that is completely irrelevant.

 

 

Jestunhi

Unless you know the post 1.2 expertise formula and exactly how much lower the other stats will be on recruit compared with champ, I'll take your opinion as just that, an opinion and not a fact.

dulfy.net

 

dirtyv

Ergo the purple should have higher armor values and higher stat values. The set bonus should make a difference... If not then guess what? You can upgrade your entire set for $$$.

And 4% damage/reduction/healing due to Expertise values obviously doesn't matter.

 

 

TDRedmage

I was simply asking why gear is a reason to pvp or not to pvp. This is a simple question. It is relevant to the OP, and in no way idiotic.

Actually, the OP never said any such thing. It is actually scoped and limited to a specific aspect of the current PvP reward system versus the upcoming changes with respect to time spent attaining pre BM gear. Thanks for playing though!

 

 

Fredcat

You're NOT being penalized, valor is easier to get then ever and so is the gear and it's getting easier in 1.2.

So let me get this straight. Pre-BM geared people will see their time/effort devalued because that gear is negatively affected by the Expertise system changes and recruit gear. However BM geared people will have their's updated to be in line with the new system/gear. Yep, clearly there is no penalization there genius!

 

 

cupofwater

Why do you even pvp then? If the sole purpose of you pvping is to get gear and have a cool title, what are you working for? You will eventually get full top ranked gear and then what will you do? Probably come cry on the forums about having nothing to work for.

Project much? Wow, where in the OP, or any of my posts, did you get that? It isn't there! You should start looking for a therapist now...

 

 

radbass

perhaps you should read the context in which something is said before you bash it. i was mocking another posters tendency to use big blue letters.

WHile you were mocking with the giant blue text, your actual words were attempting to address the topic with a perspective that you've maintained throughout multiple posts in this thread. But now you say that this statement was done in a mocking manner, implying that you mean the oposite of what the statement tries to convey. That is great to hear radbass! I'm glad to see that you are at least capable of compromise or admitting you were wrong, even if it was by accident!

 

 

crrypto

I think most of us (I have a Valor 54 Merc) are rolling alts or enjoying other facets of the game in the meantime. I queue every now and then to pwn some face but I'm not getting any benefit besides Valor.

Agreed, PvP for us is pretty pointless untill 1.2.

 

NDiggy

If BW didn't update the stats on old pvp gear then at least I could accept that from a logical perspective because they want to introduce new gear and not have new people to the game be at a huge disadvantage in pvp like most of us late comers were in the early months of TOR's release. They didn't do that though. Essentially BW is telling one group of players that they matter and the other group that they don't matter. That is what is frustrating.

+10