Resolve values for different CC effects

[Kaarsa]

@Kaarsa. I've read somewhere that the cc value (towards resolve) that adds to 1000 points is doubled as a whole not just the value that goes over 1000.

Example:

Let's say you have 800 resolve and u get hit by another CC worth 200 points. The 200 value is doubled and then you get: 800+200*2=1200.

On the other hand if you have 200 and get hit by a 800 one then :200+800*2=1800

 

Can you please test and see if this is true? It may solve the errors you are getting.

 

I did a test to check that (well, not exactly to check that, but it can be used to check that;)). I got hit with 800 resolve effect, let it drop to around 600 and got hit by another 800 resolve effect - I ended with about 1800 resolve.

 

 

Sorry, but what stun does anything like this?

 

I dont know, but since it is a possible flaw in my methods I will try to test available to me CC effects to see if there is noticable impact of animations on duration of CC.

 

I will not include CC breaker into this testing - I can press move forward button and keep it pressed to see when CC starts and ends, but if I have to press additional button and then measure when my character is moving, impact of my quite high latency is doubled (I think), not even mentioning about human error and my lousy reaction time.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kaarsa

[Ivonichke]

It's why I don't put much faith in player testing. If you find the animation doesn't add to resolve - is that intended or not?

 

A working guide, no matter the testing, is only valuable if we know what's intended.

[Kaarsa]

It's why I don't put much faith in player testing. If you find the animation doesn't add to resolve - is that intended or not?

 

A working guide, no matter the testing, is only valuable if we know what's intended.

 

While you are right, I dont know what was intented, I believe that a guide filled with empirical tests and numbers aquired that way is valuable because regardless of what was intented, we have what we have. I find useful to know how system is working now, to be able to use that knowledge in pvp, mostly in duels, where knowing how long I have to wait before using my next CC ability without filling enemy resolve can be a difference between winning and losing.

[Digtahk]

Hold on a second the resolve bar only prevents cc when it is white which as I understand it is between 1000 and 2000 resolve once you go below 1000 you are cc-able again which means you get 10 secs immunity if you use your cc breaker at full resolve.....

 

Is what I have stated above incorrect?

[Nemectic]

Hold on a second the resolve bar only prevents cc when it is white which as I understand it is between 1000 and 2000 resolve once you go below 1000 you are cc-able again which means you get 10 secs immunity if you use your cc breaker at full resolve.....

 

Is what I have stated above incorrect?

 

Yes, that's incorrect. You are immune to CC until your resolve ticks back to 0.

[Digtahk]

Ticked to zero as evidenced by the solid white bar going to Zero.....the purple bar goes to a max of 1000 though and ticks down at around 25 a second congruently with the white bar, I say this because when the white bar vanishes the purple bar is often only at 3/4 full levels.

[Alketar]

Agreed

 

 

 

 

 

I'd also like to add, I use force stasis and force push and it gives people 1200 resolve if I use it immediately. According to your numbers shouldn't it only give 1000.

 

 

600 aND 400

Posting from my phone so bear with me.

 

My main is a 72 valor focus guardian. I pvp every day, largely in small premades. Server Kath Hound. I ROUTINELY use stasis push combos and I can report two things.

 

First: the values posted in the OP are correct. Push is 400 resolve and stasis (no set bonus) is 600. Combined, they exactly (Plus some, based on which is second due to the extra resolve from rolling over 1k) white bar my target.

Second: if I wait one second (I usually mix in one other move, so a GCD) causes the bar to empty by 25 points and JUST BARELY not cause a white bar. I use this to my advantage in 1v1 situations constantly to use awe on top of these.

 

Finally, I must also note that the timer on when resolve ticks down (without a white bar) must have some different timing, because I can use the above combo with NO GAP if the opponent uses their CC break on the first move. Thus far I have suspected it is because the timer for draining nonwhite resolve does not begin until the cc ends.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Alketar

[Kaarsa]

Posting from my phone so bear with me.

 

My main is a 72 valor focus guardian. I pvp every day, largely in small premades. Server Kath Hound. I ROUTINELY use stasis push combos and I can report two things.

 

First: the values posted in the OP are correct. Push is 400 resolve and stasis (no set bonus) is 600. Combined, they exactly (Plus some, based on which is second due to the extra resolve from rolling over 1k) white bar my target.

Second: if I wait one second (I usually mix in one other move, so a GCD) causes the bar to empty by 25 points and JUST BARELY not cause a white bar. I use this to my advantage in 1v1 situations constantly to use awe on top of these.

 

Finally, I must also note that the timer on when resolve ticks down (without a white bar) must have some different timing, because I can use the above combo with NO GAP if the opponent uses their CC break on the first move. Thus far I have suspected it is because the timer for draining nonwhite resolve does not begin until the cc ends.

 

Possible, will try to check that (ie. I will break CC with not-white resolve bar right after being stunned and check if it will drop immidiately).

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kaarsa

[Kaarsa]

Ok, I have done some testing and it looks like it is way more complicated (or way simplier;)) than I thought in the first moment.

 

1. Resolve when it is not white starts to drain immidiately when CC ends, so using a CC breaker means that your resolve is dropping.

 

2. Since this time I used my brothers help and he just logged in on my laptop, I had control over both characters and did way more accurate testing than before. First results for knockbacks and pulls:

 

Starting resolve - end resolve

 

650 - 1250

 

700 - 1300

 

800 - 1400

 

900 - 1500

 

995 - 1595

 

For mezzes and stuns:

 

250 - 1450

 

300 - 1500

 

400 - 1600

 

500 - 1700

 

600 - 1800

 

700 - 1900

 

800 - 2000

 

900 - 2100

 

995 - 2195

 

 

My mistake in first test was testing 800 starting resolve and something around 500, probably beacuse of delay in communication between me and my friend I got numbers around 1600 then and extrapolated wrong formula. This time I was able to press button in the same moment resolve value reached above points, so I find this testing way better.

 

I will update OP with my findings and remove incorect statements.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kaarsa

[Kaarsa]

Ok, after a second thought it looks like formula is very simple:

 

if amount of resolve from last CC is enough to reach 1000, add 50% more resolve points.

 

It explains everything I observed, including tranquilizer.

 

Tomorrow I will try to test force choke (it has 600 points value).

 

PS. It actaully mean I have to L2 read, because you can already find this info on Taugrims blog;) Anyway, all my work seems to confirm that, so maybe I didnt waste my time completly;)

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kaarsa

[Venjirai]

Try the Sage's Force Lift with the skilled 2s stun after breaking it.

[yaworr]

we already tried sorcs whirlwind with 2 sec stun after dmg breaking the CC (first post).

is sages force lift different?

Edited April 5, 2012 by yaworr

[kweassa]

Agreed

 

 

 

 

 

I'd also like to add, I use force stasis and force push and it gives people 1200 resolve if I use it immediately. According to your numbers shouldn't it only give 1000.

 

 

600 aND 400

 

If you have 2 pieces of PvP gear, it extends 1 more second to the 3 second channel, making it a 4 second/800 resolve power.

[Kaarsa]

Try the Sage's Force Lift with the skilled 2s stun after breaking it.

 

I did (look into first post, but it was sorc skill, whirlwind) - resolve turned white after breaking mez with damage and I think it was 1400 points (starting with zero before whirlwind) but since i tlooks like my fisrt test were not good enough, I will try to check it again.

[Venjirai]

I did (look into first post, but it was sorc skill, whirlwind) - resolve turned white after breaking mez with damage and I think it was 1400 points (starting with zero before whirlwind) but since i tlooks like my fisrt test were not good enough, I will try to check it again.

 

I don't want you to test the sorc's ability.

You have to test Force Lift with the 2s Stun.

It is supposed to be the mirror ability and I want you to test, if that is true.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Venjirai

[Kaarsa]

I don't want you to test the sorc's ability.

You have to test Force Lift with the 2s Stun.

It is supposed to be the mirror ability and I want you to test, if that is true.

 

I dont have a sage. My brother and my friend do not have a sage. I doubt I will able to do this, this is one of the reasons why I started this thread - I hoped that some other players will spend those 10 minutes needed to get results for skills I dont have access to.

 

PS. I consider using words "want" and "have to" in this manner as rude, so if you will ever want me to do anything, try to use other wording, I am not going to respond otherwise.

[Zunayson]

The problem with the resolve decay is that you can be cc'd and have a full resolve bar and an empy resolve bar by the time you are free of the cc. Not that this actually matters as you are usually dead before this happens anyway. And then you are using the bikes with a decaying resolve bar.

 

Once the resolve bar is full, all cc effects etc should stop, and should not be able to be applied until this is emptied.

 

 

Say I have 800 resolve from a stun. Then you stun me, I get the resolve instantly, and then I break out instantly and become immune instantly.

 

so the second stun was basically:

 

Wasted his cooldown

Gave me an immunity

 

Which doesn't help him at all. If your plan is implemented, resolve must be granted in .5 second values (100 for a stun and 50 for a mezz).

 

In any other rate, knockbacks are 400, the reason Hidden Strike/Shoot first isn't is because it does a lot of damage, so it grants your more resolve...

[Digtahk]

You have done some sterling work here: Given your conclusions here is my problem with this system (from a melee dps point of view) the purple bar is meaningless since there is no diminishing returns so 1 tick after it was full you can be cced again provided the white bar is empty.

 

So my main focus is on what level of protection from cc the white bar provides (this bar starts ticking down as soon as it arises regardless of whether you are cced still or not. Which means you get at most 12 seconds where you are not ccable if your breaker is on cd. When your gap closers are on a 15 second cds it feels like you never really get a chance to fight or use more than 4 consecutive abilities before getting hit by another form of cc.

 

Personally I would be all for removing any form of AOE CC (people should have to focus and target all their cc and secondly snares/slows need to be on a separate diminishing returns counter.

[Darth_Philar]

You have done some sterling work here: Given your conclusions here is my problem with this system (from a melee dps point of view) the purple bar is meaningless since there is no diminishing returns so 1 tick after it was full you can be cced again provided the white bar is empty.

 

So my main focus is on what level of protection from cc the white bar provides (this bar starts ticking down as soon as it arises regardless of whether you are cced still or not. Which means you get at most 12 seconds where you are not ccable if your breaker is on cd. When your gap closers are on a 15 second cds it feels like you never really get a chance to fight or use more than 4 consecutive abilities before getting hit by another form of cc.

 

Personally I would be all for removing any form of AOE CC (people should have to focus and target all their cc and secondly snares/slows need to be on a separate diminishing returns counter.

 

Essentially, if you know they are trying to lock you down you just need to eat the first CC. When they hit you with the second one THEN you use your breaker and become immune.

[Digtahk]

In an arena setting with 3 a side I think things would be fine, however given the nature of the objective pvp we play where it necessitates a certain amount of crowding around objectives, there is far too much time spent not in control of your character. Its not that its getting you killed but in a 15 minute game if you only die 3 times you are constantly taking 5 steps then getting cc'ed then take another 5 steps cc'ed . Most of the time you are not even on a target and some random aoe cc hits you, its exasperating and there are far better ways to balance a game than through the excessive use of mechanics that force people to stare at the screen for 8 out of every 20 seconds watching other people play.

[Ivonichke]

Essentially, if you know they are trying to lock you down you just need to eat the first CC. When they hit you with the second one THEN you use your breaker and become immune.

 

Or you eat the first one, depending on what it is, have 2-4s of freedom while your resolve bar drains since you're CCed the full duration, then you get CCed again and have to wait for the third CC before using your CC breaker.

 

Stellar system.

 

 

And I believe assassins/shadows, scoundrels/ops have a knockdown component that does eat up time. Is that incorrect and should I begin creating tickets every time I'm knocked down?

 

Example: I get knocked down with a stun, fills my resolve, I use my CC breaker - I am not immediately responsive to movement or anything else, it takes ~1s for my character to stand back up. Call it lag if you want, but it's the only time I experience such "lag" - go figure.

[Darth_Philar]

Or you eat the first one, depending on what it is, have 2-4s of freedom while your resolve bar drains since you're CCed the full duration, then you get CCed again and have to wait for the third CC before using your CC breaker.

 

Stellar system.

 

 

And I believe assassins/shadows, scoundrels/ops have a knockdown component that does eat up time. Is that incorrect and should I begin creating tickets every time I'm knocked down?

 

Example: I get knocked down with a stun, fills my resolve, I use my CC breaker - I am not immediately responsive to movement or anything else, it takes ~1s for my character to stand back up. Call it lag if you want, but it's the only time I experience such "lag" - go figure.

 

Your purple resolve does not drain while you are under the effects of CC, so your scenario is impossible. A more realistic example of what you intended to represent would be:

 

You eat a stun for 800 resolve, your resolve when you are free is now still 800 but dropping at a rate of 25/second. In order for it to drop low enough for the second stun to not grant immunity you would need to wait for it to be less than 200 (i.e. you need to lose 625 resolve). 625 / 25 = 25 seconds. Your 2-4 seconds is actually 25 seconds.

 

The irony of course is that if you aren't immediately CCd, your period of "effective immunity" is at least 25 seconds. If you are CCd immediately and break it, your period of "effective immunity" is shorter.

 

In either case, you reach "effective immunity" faster with Resolve than with any other system out there, you just need to learn how to use it correctly.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Krionic]

So what you're saying is there's an ability that doesn't fit into your formulas, thus negating the formulas since you can't prove if it's the exception or the rule.

 

I think this is a good example of why we, the players, need BioWare to officially describe/explain how resolve works and the values assigned.

 

I don't think bioware knows. I've seen too many weird things with resolve to be convinced it is working as intended. full whitle resolve and still getting stunned etc. Resolve was just a bad idea. Especially how most CC effects do not affect resolve. it is just a craps shot.

[Darth_Philar]

I don't think bioware knows. I've seen too many weird things with resolve to be convinced it is working as intended. full whitle resolve and still getting stunned etc. Resolve was just a bad idea. Especially how most CC effects do not affect resolve. it is just a craps shot.

 

Do you know how useful anecdotes are for research?

I'll give you a hint: They aren't

 

If you have a video of a CC being applied while the resolve bar is white then by all means, please post a link. We need evidence, not stories.

[Ivonichke]

Your purple resolve does not drain while you are under the effects of CC, so your scenario is impossible. A more realistic example of what you intended to represent would be:

 

You eat a stun for 800 resolve, your resolve when you are free is now still 800 but dropping at a rate of 25/second. In order for it to drop low enough for the second stun to not grant immunity you would need to wait for it to be less than 200 (i.e. you need to lose 625 resolve). 625 / 25 = 25 seconds. Your 2-4 seconds is actually 25 seconds.

 

The irony of course is that if you aren't immediately CCd, your period of "effective immunity" is at least 25 seconds. If you are CCd immediately and break it, your period of "effective immunity" is shorter.

 

In either case, you reach "effective immunity" faster with Resolve than with any other system out there, you just need to learn how to use it correctly.

 

No, the scenario is absolutely possible. There's a CC from stealth that incapacitates for 11s or so - see the first post for results. While it's white, it drains at 100 per second. See the first post for results. By the time the CC is finished, you have ~400, maybe, maybe 600 resolve left. See the first post for results.

 

Is it always plausible? No, but it's certainly possible.

 

Maybe you aren't sure how the system works?

 

 

Do you know how useful anecdotes are for research?

I'm guessing as useful as posting "fact" without all the relevant details - see above if you aren't sure what that is.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ivonichke