No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[Meldwyn]

Ok, if your apparent evidence of a Blizz Dev saying that the Cross Server LFG was bad and a mistake was supposedly deleted by us (I still don't get how?) then all you gotta do is repost it.

 

Go on, link it again.

 

That sounds fishy.. Because Ghostcrawler has admitted that the players like the LFG tool in his post mortem for Cataclysm. Who would know better?

[Erasimus]

The pluses and minuses for cross sever LFG group tool are, to me, not much different from any PuG.

 

No one will be forced to use it. Saying that its very existence will make people use it is nonsense. I've played WoW since release, and still do. I run heroics and raids with friends, guildies, and using the LFG/LFR tool. It depends on who is on and which of my characters I'm playing. I like the flexibility of having all of them available.

 

If you have a guild/friends then getting a group together shouldn't present huge difficulties. If you don't have enough friends or aren't in a guild and only want to run with people on your server, well that could present a problem. I'd still maintain that a PuG is a PuG whether it is cross server or single server and all PuGs have similar issues.

 

I wasn't able to play WoW for a while. When I came back I was able to do every one of the new Raids within 3 days on my Main using the LFR tool. I also ran normal and hard mode raids with my Guild and the experience from the LFR runs helped quite a bit.

 

Community? What community? I like a lot about this game, but it feels less like an MMO than any other MMO I've played in the last 8 years, and I've played a lot of them. I'm on a pretty well populated server, Dark Reaper, but it is rare to see more than 1 or 2 people in most quest areas when I'm on my alts. This is a relatively new game so this shouldn't be the case. I don't know if it is how they do instancing or what but I'd rather compete for quest mobs than feel like I'm playing a single player game.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Erasimus

[DigitalPrime]

It doesn't fix the problem.

 

No, I've never said that I don't want them. I've said that they don't fix the problems, which is true.

 

Nor am I aware of anyone else who's argued against them, other than bioware.

 

You're back to not making any sense.

circumspect = Wary and unwilling to take risks.

 

that doesn't make any sense in this context.

 

Yes

 

No, the 6 hour queues I ran into were, where I gave up were a new alt, and since I hadn't chatted in general with him or grouped, I couldn't have been on any ignore lists... so there just wasn't anyone queuing for dungeons in that level range at that time.

 

The multi hour looking for a dps was simply that there wasn't anyone available (we checked via /who and whispers); I had done some general chat on that toon (it was my main), but I find it really unlikely that I would have been on ignore for anything I had said (I was pretty helpful in general and level chat).

 

It was heavy, with queues in the evenings. When they enabled server transfers a few weeks later, you couldn't transfer to it, but you could transfer off of it.

 

as for "at the time" ... I haven't tracked the server populations in that game for months, so I've got no idea how it stacks up now. But that's not really relevant, since I'm talking about when that game still had only a single server lfg tool (which was back between 1.2 and 1.4 iirc)

 

You're making 0 sense. If they don't want to use it, and they don't, then they are indeed allowed the same content as other people.. They are allowed the exact same content. There's no difference in content allowed.

 

 

... No, I'm sure that anyone who wants to go fishing can do so. I can go to my house, and go into my garage and get my fishing pole and tackle box, put it in my car , and then dive out to a local lake and attach either a lure or bait to my fishing pole, and then fish. The fact that you don't enjoy fishing doesn't enter into it. Calling me names because I tell you "well, if you don't like to go fishing, don't go fishing"

 

Seriously... do you really not understand the text you're quoting?

 

There's no red herring involved. If you don't want to group cross server, there's always single server grouping.

 

You're not making any sense here; like... none.

 

You like cross server grouping but don't want to cross server group? How does that make any sense?

 

No, my long term desires include lots of people who also share similar long term desires.

 

It's in each of the specific counter examples that people have made.

 

I don't write the game code; if you want bioware to make changes, you'll need to talk to them.

 

I've never suggested anything like that, so this is just a strawman argument.

 

No, you haven't; every single one you've offered has been refuted with specific counter examples. Feel free to try again, or post a link to one that hasn't been refuted.

 

No, there were several specific mathematical examples.

 

Nope. You have yet to show that any of your concerns are real. Feel free to try if you want to.

 

Nope. You have yet to show that any of your concerns are real. Feel free to try if you want to. But until you do, the very real, mathematical examples of benefits outweight any pretend examples that you have yet to actually produce.

 

I don't write game code for swtor; if you want changes made, you'll need to talk to bioware.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

You have more than 1 false statements in this sentence alone.

 

I don't have to allow anything. THey are allowed access "the same content" whether they use the cross server lfg tool or not.

 

I have not made any claim that you will only be able to get with the cross server lfg tool, so that's just a blatant strawman argument.

 

Sure we have. We've given you a cahnce to actually demonstrate that any of your complaints are valid. You choose not to do so.

 

No, you disagree, and have posted things that have been refuted. You were wrong because you were wrong, not because you disagreed with me.

 

I have done neither.

 

No, you flamed and threw around insults rather than actually debating, and as a result had your posts removed by the mods.

 

 

 

Because a few forum members claim something is refuted. And some say its not refuted. Why in your eyes is it refuted. Becuase you say so. Or a few other of the pro wow system clan say so. How does this make it so?

 

Maybe get off your high horse a little. And understand that everything in your brain is not correct or right to everyone outside of your head.

 

I know you think you are right, In your head you are right. But on the outside to others outside of the pro wow system clan it says otherwise.

 

So, instead of stating something making out is written in stone, maybe take a back seat and notice that other peoples opinions other then yours float around this forum and refute your claims. To them at least

[genealogymaster]

If everyone does that, we'll be back to the login Queue problems we had before and then a bunch of unused truly dead servers. In fact, lol, I could see that creating a perpetual cycle where people go back and forth (unless they say the hell with it and quit).

 

Why should I reroll, lose all my legacy for your narrowmindedness?

[genealogymaster]

It is logical not narrow minded. If a general lack of people is the only thing impeading your progression then GO TO WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE instead of attempting to drag the entire game into the deadspace that you are trying to escape with XSLFG.

 

Sorry misquoted the other, why should reroll, lose my legacy because you're happy with your well populated server. There is no community to destroy.

[ferroz]

Because a few forum members claim something is refuted. And some say its not refuted. Why in your eyes is it refuted. Becuase you say so. Or a few other of the pro wow system clan say so. How does this make it so?

Post the thing(s) that you think haven't been refuted yet...

 

Why be so evasive instead of just posting your reasoning?

 

Maybe get off your high horse a little.

What high horse?

 

 

So, instead of stating something making out is written in stone, maybe take a back seat and notice that other peoples opinions other then yours float around this forum and refute your claims. To them at least

No, if it's only "To them at least" then you're talking about something that's subjective rather than objective. That's not a refutation.

 

to be honest, I'm really curious what claim you think that I've made that have been "refuted" ...

Edited April 11, 2012 by ferroz

[Skirata_Kal]

Sorry misquoted the other, why should reroll, lose my legacy because you're happy with your well populated server. There is no community to destroy.

 

LOL, glad I read the next post after the one where you quoted me. Consider yourself forgiven

[ferroz]

Sorry misquoted the other, why should reroll, lose my legacy because you're happy with your well populated server. There is no community to destroy.

you know, you could go back and edit that post to "whoops, misquoted" or something like that.

[Bodah]

Good god. Give us Xserver lfg tool. The "Amish" can stick with there little community and not use it. The rest of us will indulge in the blessings of technology.

[Skirata_Kal]

Good god. Give us Xserver lfg tool. The "Amish" can stick with there little community and not use it. The rest of us will indulge in the blessings of technology.

 

WINNER! LMAO!! Short, to the point, easy to remember and no credible counter argument!

[ChairForceOne]

I can see both sides. On one end, LFG tools tend to keep players inside 1 little area all the time. But being as there is shuttles to every Flashpoint, Ops, and a LFG for WZ's thats already the case mostly, i don't really see any problems with a LFG tool.

 

 

It's kind of a bummer for larger population servers like mine, where we tend to be a bit ahead due to the ease of finding groups to gear up. We'll end up queue'ing with less experienced and geared players. But i suppose it's selfish to argue a LFG tool under those circumstances.

[CorellianWannabe]

It's kind of a bummer for larger population servers like mine, where we tend to be a bit ahead due to the ease of finding groups to gear up. We'll end up queue'ing with less experienced and geared players. But i suppose it's selfish to argue a LFG tool under those circumstances.

 

Then don't use LFG? That way your better geared players won't be dragged down by lessers.

 

Hell given how easy it is to get orange gear and mods I'm not sure how players can be poorly geared to start with.

[Toryn]

Being on a server like starstorm one (which bioware told us to go on during the crazy queues, this turned out to be a russian hotspot which makes finding groups hard due to communication problems. Then a mass exit from the server by english players has made this even worse in the poast month or so) you can hardly ever get a group. The game seems broke, as spending hours and hours to get a group, when there are a maximum of 50 people on the republic fleet at peak times.

 

I am all for a cross server LFG tool, although for servers where this is an issue, i can see why you would not want it.

[ferroz]

We'll [larger population servers] end up queue'ing with less experienced and geared players.

That should be a mostly short term problem, right? I mean, once the lfg has been cross server for a while, the other servers won't really be behind in gear or experience.

[MasterKayote]

Glad to hear it.

 

lol, the master of cherry picking everyone.

 

No... it's tautological: Cross server grouping is the only way I'll be able to group with people on other servers. If I can't group cross server then I can't group cross server...

 

Perhaps actually read the text you're going to quote?

 

A) No its not, even WoW allows you to group with with people cross-server aside from the xserver using realID friends.

 

B) The issue is getting a big enough pool of players to find groups in a reasonable amount of time, which xserver is NOT the only way. Not wanting to play with players of a different server just for the sake of it (which is unnecessary).

 

No, not figments of your imagination. You're blaming stuff that wasn't caused by xserver lfg on xserver.

 

So, flawed logical analysis paired with rose colored glasses, not figment of imagination.

 

Yup, we all are. Everyone that is against it has the same exact excuses because we're equally "flawed" compared to you and the 5 others who've been keeping these threads alive. That was sarcasm btw, since it seems to go over your head.

 

Yup, if you try to use something as the basis of your argument, the burden of proof is on you.

 

I'm familiar with the fallacy; it doesn't apply in this case because you're trying to use it as the basis of your argument, so I'm not setting up a false dichotomy; it's either true, false, unknown, or unknowable.

• If the claim you make isn't true then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
  
• If you haven't done enough investigation to prove that your premise is true, then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
  
• If it's not possible to know whether your claim is in fact true of false, then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
  

 

 

The only time youv'e made a valid argument against cross server lfg is if you can prove your basis/premise to be true. That's how logical implication works.

 

 

So the fact that your entire argument is invalid unless you prove that your premise is true (and that the burden of proof is on you) has nothing to do with the fallacy you've linked.

 

Um, try again. No one, has done any formal research on the effects of the LFG tool. Its all personal experience. Thats the only proof there is on both sides. We say it brought the community down, you say it didnt. The ONLY logical argument you have ever made in favor of xserver is that it provides the most instant gratification, which no one has argued against.

 

Youre calling for burden of proof knowing there isnt any, while making another claim ("it doesnt effect community") which has no proof itself. Youre pretty much ignoring and dismissing the experiences of many players who've voiced against it by saying "nah uh" ... countering with your own (very outnumbered) unprovable experiences.

 

Furthermore, it is actually YOU making the claim. None of us here disagrees that the quality of the community went down (more frequent misbehavior, less general sense of community, etc) after the xserver LFG. Even some of those for the xserver agree. YOU are the one claiming its not the xserver LFG tools fault. If you insist on playing the "appeal to ignorance" and "burden of proof" card ... its actually on you.

 

Actually, it doesn't: single server doesn't allow the latter on low pop servers. That's why I ran into 6+ hour queues single server in RIFT while queued as tank, heals, dps, and support (on my alt cleric). That's why someone on gnarlwood was posting screenshots of 12 or 16 hour queues when it was still single server. That's why I had a 1.5 hour queue when we had a tank, a healer, a support and a dps and just needed a 2nd dps (or any role, since the tank heal and support were also queued as dps) even at the level cap.

 

Indeed: the stuff that you're suggesting simply does not fix the problem. People still have problems finding groups off hours, at mid levels, and on low pop servers; the only way to actually fix that is to tear down the artificial server walls.

 

It leaves out the "finding groups" part though.

 

1) WoW didnt have problems with groups until they made them all trivial and useless .. oh and they were YEARS old. Never did I have problems finding groups for current content on my server which is always medium in population (low off peak).

 

The same server LFG in WoW was HORRIBLE ... the interface sucked, the matching sucked, and no one used it! It got to the point where they brought back the Global LFG channel. SEE FOR YOURSELF Even so, Blizzard is known for pumping out "features" without thinking and/or ignoring the consequences (part of the reason some of us are here) and thats exactly what we're trying to avoid here. Luckily Bioware isnt as ignorant on those issues (see combat log parsers).

 

Also, dont talk as if xserver solved Rifts problems. While the queues did improve they didnt magically get fixed. I was still queuing for a good hour before getting groups there, even with xserver. Communication went down, behavior worsened, zero tolerance against fellow players, all the while the servers remained empty (main reason I left). If Xserver was such a godsend ... then why were servers merged anyway? It wasnt. Like TOR, Rift had trouble grouping from the very beginning which is a MUCH bigger problem.

 

2) Xserver for low pops is like becoming an alcoholic for depression. Instant gratification that just adds more problems in the long run. Unless the game suddenly becomes one where all you do is play FP's it does NOT solve any of the other problems of being in a low pop server.

 

3) Going to try this once more since last time you all seemed to prefer the in-fighting, ignoring each others comments or concerns.

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1072320-LFG-Tool-How-to-make-it-better < great thread we should be following the example of.

 

We're already getting same server LFG and hopefully some server merges to go with it for the lower population servers. IF BW decides to stay ignorant and by some off chance group queues are still unreasonable then perhaps we can suggest ways of implementing a decent xserver without turning this into the turd which is currently stinking up WoW.

Edited April 11, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Mezla]

 

The same server LFG in WoW was HORRIBLE ... the interface sucked, the matching sucked, and no one used it! It got to the point where they brought back the Global LFG channel. SEE FOR YOURSELF Even so, Blizzard is known for pumping out "features" without thinking and/or ignoring the consequences (part of the reason some of us are here) and thats exactly what we're trying to avoid here. Luckily Bioware isnt as ignorant on those issues (see combat log parsers).

 

And that's the biggest problem with you and your kind. You insert blatant lies into what seem like logical arguments and that makes it look like you actually have a point, which you don't.

Original LFG tool in WoW sucked, but Blizzard never brought back global LFG channel. Global LFG never returned to WoW. We had to use trade until we got the current LFG.

The question becomes on how often do you use blatant lies to back your argument up? I am willing to bet that very often.

[Sinron]

Game needs a cross server lfg system. If you dont want this. Then dont use it. Form your own groups by sitting in fleet spamming.

[ferroz]

A) No its not, even WoW allows you to group with with people cross-server aside from the xserver using realID friends.

Grouping with cross server realid friends is still cross server grouping...

 

Like I said, it's tautological: Cross server grouping is the only way I'll be able to group with people on other servers.

 

B) The issue is getting a big enough pool of players to find groups in a reasonable amount of time, which xserver is NOT the only way.

Sure it is. A single server cannot hold enough people to fix the situation; the problems that cross server grouping fix are still present even on the largest of servers. And given that I see cross server an end, not a means to an end: Ergo, cross server grouping is needed to actually fix what I want them to fix.

 

Yup, we all are.

Glad to hear that we're on the same page.

 

That was sarcasm btw

Oh, I don't pay attention to sarcasm; I generally just take whatever you say as you said it without trying to do too much interpretation.

 

Um, try again. No one, has done any formal research on the effects of the LFG tool.

No, that's just speculation, and I'm pretty sure it's false speculation at that.

 

Certainly blizzard has done formal research on the effects; even though they haven't directly released the results of that research, we can see the indirect results of that research: they have continued to expand cross server with the lfr tool, they are expanding cross server in general significantly over the next expansion, and they are continuing to refine it's features (for example, the battletag system). Some of their more announcements are pretty direct at revealing their analysis, particularly in how they view LFR as a success.

 

Quite possibly other people have done formal research; I haven't looked into it much.

 

Youre calling for burden of proof knowing there isnt any,

No, I'm assuming that if people are going to use that as the basis of their argument, then they actually have proof, especially since many of them claim to have proof.

 

If you don't have proof then it's not a valid basis for your argument, because the hypothesis of your statement is of indeterminate true/false value. At that point your argument boils down to "no, you shouldn't get it because I don't want you to get it" which isn't really a valid argument at all.

 

Furthermore, it is actually YOU making the claim.

no, you're claiming that is a reason to not add a feature that people want... it's your claim, not mine.

 

None of us here disagrees that the quality of the community went down (more frequent misbehavior, less general sense of community, etc) after the xserver LFG.

Lots of people disagree with that, and even if you're correct: correlation is not causation (as well as Fallacy of mass appeal).

 

1) WoW didnt have problems with groups until they made them all trivial and useless .. oh and they were YEARS old. Never did I have problems finding groups for current content on my server which is always medium in population (low off peak).

Lots of other people did have those problems.

 

Blizzard clearly believed that people were having those problems, since they were almost continuously refining lfg tools until coming up with the cross realm lfd tool...

 

Also, dont talk as if xserver solved Rifts problems.

I'm not making any claims about that; I simply know that single server lfg was worthless on many, if not most of the servers. I have, on occasion, referred to one of the people who have claimed that it vastly fixed the problems.

 

I was still queuing for a good hour before getting groups there, even with xserver.

That's better than 6 hours; it's even better than my "we just need 1 of anything else" situation that was a multi-hour queue.

 

If Xserver was such a godsend ... then why were servers merged anyway?

Because they didn't adapt cross server to deal with non-dungeons as far as I'm aware, and a big part of RIFT's schtick is the rift events.

 

2) Xserver for low pops is like becoming an alcoholic for depression. Instant gratification that just adds more problems in the long run. Unless the game suddenly becomes one where all you do is play FP's it does NOT solve any of the other problems of being in a low pop server.

No, this assumes that what I'm asking for only works in flash points, and I've been pretty plain about what I'd like to see.

 

3) Going to try this once more since last time you all seemed to prefer the in-fighting, ignoring each others comments or concerns.

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1072320-LFG-Tool-How-to-make-it-better < great thread we should be following the example of.

I've actually suggested several of the items on his list and the followup lists, just FYI. The Rating system is too easy to abuse

 

server merges to go with it for the lower population servers.

They've been specific that due to legacy this is a looooong way off, if ever.

 

given tat their excuse is legacy, and that they're adding cross server pvp in the near future: cross server pve grouping is going to be much easier for them to add... they'll have already solved all of the technical issues.

Edited April 11, 2012 by ferroz

[Snoodmaster]

2) Xserver for low pops is like becoming an alcoholic for depression. Instant gratification that just adds more problems in the long run. Unless the game suddenly becomes one where all you do is play FP's it does NOT solve any of the other problems of being in a low pop server.

 

Why? I'm not being sarcastic or facetious here, I really want to know specifically what your objection is, what you feel the "instant gratification" is, and what you think the "long run problems" are.

 

I hope I've been fairly clear about what I think the benefits of a cross-server LFG are, and so have others in this thread. Not "instant gratification" but a permanent, long-term solution to creating and forming groups for the group content that makes an MMO a multiplayer game.

 

I can defend this position, and I have a logical argument for my position. It's been stated previously and I'll restate it here:

(1) Increasing the pool of players to form groups from will decrease the time it takes to form each group. This is simple and obvious mathematics.

(2) Decreasing the time it takes to form each group will in turn decrease the wait for each individual player to be placed in a group. Again, simple math.

(3) Going from single server to cross server increases the pool of available players.

 

The unknown variable here is the question of how fast the time to form each group is. If a server's population is large enough, the time to form a group will be fairly low to being with. And so the benefit for moving cross-server might also be fairly low. For example if the single server LFG forms groups in 3 minutes and the cross server pool forms groups in 1 minute, there's not a lot of benefit there. The difference between a 1 minute and a 2 minute wait to form a group is relatively minuscule. However, when the server's population is low, off-peak times or on a low population server, the average time to form a group can be unreasonably high.

 

Let's posit that a server has 20 people at lvl 50 on at a given moment. Of those, half are PvP and half are PvE so there are 10 people who are even thinking about running a FP. 5 of those people are currently in a group. That leaves 5 people available for a FP. If one of those 5 people is afk or just wants to do dailies, that means that the 4 people who are in the LFG queue have to wait until someone else logs in or until the current group finishes it's FP and frees someone up to join a different group. This means a minimum wait time of about an hours (the time it takes to finish the FP) and a maximum wait time of 3 hours (the time it takes for the other 3 people in the queue to be done and open up a spot for you.

 

If you don't think it's possible to have 20 people at lvl 50, check out the following graph and scroll down. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottom few servers have 20 lvl 50s online.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/republicserverdistribution1.png

 

Given all of that, it's beneficial to combine the pool of people looking for groups in those smaller servers to create a larger pool and thus lower the time it takes to get a group. If you combine the bottom 20 servers, you can go from 10 people to 200+ people in the LFG pool.

 

A permanent server merge of those servers would achieve the same effect, but only temporarily. Because in a few months, that new MEGA SERVER might lose some players or gain too many players. With a cross-server LFG tool, if some servers in the pool lose population and become too low, the game will simply add in more servers to keep the pool where it needs to be without affecting anything else. The game could swap servers in and out of the pool every month and people wouldn't be affected. If you did massive server merges and transfers every month, that would be a huge problem.

[Darkulous]

I honestly think the majority of anti-xserverLFDers have little or no experience with a X-server LFD. If they did have extensive experience with this TOOL they wouldn't be making all these ridiculous statements. For example:

 

Most of these people think you can't form groups if a X-server Tool is put in the game.

 

Really?

 

Seriously, if you're going to be against something so vigorously, at least know something about it.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Darkulous

[RKLimes]

I would love to see a cross server LFG.

If you feel playing with people from another server would be disruptive to your community experience, don't do it.

 

They created FAR too many servers. The result, in my opinion, is an almost unplayable 'mmo' experience.

 

The single player game is still good times though, so congratulations on that Bioware.

[Exartess]

I honestly think the majority of anti-xserverLFDers have little or no experience with a X-server LFD. If they did have extensive experience with this TOOL they wouldn't be making all these ridiculous statements. For example:

 

Most of these people think you can't form groups if a X-server Tool is put in the game.

 

Really?

 

Seriously, if you're going to be against something so vigorously, at least know something about it.

 

 

I can't speak for the others who are against XSLFG.

 

I have extensive experience with XSLFG from WoW. The community I was a part of on WoW changed dramatically for the worse after 3 months of that tool going live.

 

The major reason that I believe XSLFG destroys communities is that it siphons off potential players from what used to be a closed system by relieving their need to execute the Daily quest. When players can't satisfy their own need to do the Daily HM Flashpoint it forces them to be social, talk to other people, build relationships for future runs, ect. But with the XSLFG it allows people to quietly solo the HM Content. If they are quietly doing this then they have no reason to build relationships on their server.

 

Building relationships is energy intensive and takes time. But those friendships are rewarding in the end. It is my belief (fear) that if a XSLFG goes live then people will not step out of their comfort zones to look for other people on their server to do things with (with the same intensity that they currently do on populated servers). When people clam up and stop talking then the community becomes less vibrant. If your community is a negative one or so unpopulated that you can't progress then I truly feel bad for you because you are missing out on the best part of this game, and any other MMO, and that is the new friends we make and the fun we have playing this game with those people.

 

I would run approximately 5 Heroics a day using the XSLFG tool on WoW. It was a very cold and impersonal experience. Nobody cared who was who. Everyone was very judgmental about player skill with everyone being suspected as being 'bad'. There was very little talk or chatter in the group. And when it was over you were sent back to your server with nothing to show for your trouble except the passage of time and maybe an upgrade.

 

To those who say if you don't like XSLFG you don’t have to use it I say: Whether I use it or not, XSLFG's very existence would diminishes my in game experience by silencing hundreds of voices who no longer need my help to complete their daily HM Flashpoint.

i.e. it would wreck the community that I play in.

 

To the individual who brought up the excellent point of Legacy vs. jumping to a more populous server. I agree with you. Your game investment should not be lost because your server is a dead zone. I don't have any positive ideas on how to fix this dilemma. Were I in your shoes I would accept my losses and stop throwing more valuable time into a dead server. I would move to a hopping server and start over. That is me though and what I am willing to do to make new friends and have fun in a MMO and what you are willing to do may not be one in the same.

[Snoodmaster]

The major reason that I believe XSLFG destroys communities is that it siphons off potential players from what used to be a closed system by relieving their need to execute the Daily quest. When players can't satisfy their own need to do the Daily HM Flashpoint it forces them to be social, talk to other people, build relationships for future runs, ect. But with the XSLFG it allows people to quietly solo the HM Content. If they are quietly doing this then they have no reason to build relationships on their server.

 

Building relationships is energy intensive and takes time. But those friendships are rewarding in the end. It is my belief (fear) that if a XSLFG goes live then people will not step out of their comfort zones to look for other people on their server to do things with (with the same intensity that they currently do on populated servers). When people clam up and stop talking then the community becomes less vibrant. If your community is a negative one or so unpopulated that you can't progress then I truly feel bad for you because you are missing out on the best part of this game, and any other MMO, and that is the new friends we make and the fun we have playing this game with those people.

 

Well said, and thanks for articulating your position clearly and succintly.

 

However, I have to disagree, and here's why. Your position essentially boils down to wanting to force other people to play the way you want to (be social) even though they personally do not want to. All those people who would desert the "community" to just run FPs silently and quickly are doing so because that's how they want to play. You aren't building a 'real' community if the only reason people talk to you or interact with you is through coercion. There are people in the game who enjoy building a community and prefer making new friends and meeting new people. They will still be there even after cross-server LFG and you can still meet them and interact with them.

[Dudek]

Now it is impossible to FIND GROUPS or do simply PVE . !!!!!!!

[tkinnunzero]

I tried to suggest no Cross Realm LFG tool for PVP but all I got was scorn heaped on me. Double-standard much?!