AP vs expertise Adrenal PVP

[Ch_Zero]

i have a Ap adrenal which gives me 565 AP the rakata

 

and i have the warzone Expertise one.

 

The warzone one lasts 10 seconds longer.

 

my expertise stands around 560

 

 

 

Which one is better and why?

Edited April 3, 2012 by Ch_Zero

[Affics]

i have a Ap adrenal which gives me 565 AP the rakata

 

and i have the warzone Expertise one.

 

The warzone one lasts 10 seconds longer.

 

my expertise stands around 536.

 

 

 

Which one is better and why?

 

What class are u?

[FourTwent]

to my understanding you always wanna go with the expertise adrenal. . .unless you're picking up the expertise buff that's in the warzone(since those dont stack to give you +30% expertise)

 

edit - sorry i dont really know why. maybe someone else can fill you in on the details. it's just so far that seems to be the 'optimal' way(probably due to diminishing returns though)

Edited April 1, 2012 by FourTwent

[cashogy]

to my understanding you always wanna go with the expertise adrenal. . .unless you're picking up the expertise buff that's in the warzone(since those dont stack to give you +30% expertise)

 

edit - sorry i dont really know why. maybe someone else can fill you in on the details. it's just so far that seems to be the 'optimal' way(probably due to diminishing returns though)

 

youre correct. the 15% damage increase + 15% damage decrease is going to be much more powerful than any adrenal you could use, either offensively or defensively

[exphryl]

The Expertise Adrenal has more practical usages.

 

HOWEVER.

 

Just test this yourself, whatever your main ability is use your Power Adrenal. If it's > than a 15% Increase and you want to increase just your damage without worrying about staying alive do that.

[MrXen]

The expertise adrenal increases your expertise by 15%, leading to a not very noticeable gain. Its much more effective to use power adrenals or crit/surge adrenals.

 

 

 

Using the warzone expertise is a waste of an adrenal cooldown.

[Quesadilla]

The expertise adrenal increases your expertise by 15%, leading to a not very noticeable gain. Its much more effective to use power adrenals or crit/surge adrenals.

 

 

 

Using the warzone expertise is a waste of an adrenal cooldown.

 

Could not be more false.

 

15% increase = 15% more damage/healing given and 15% less damage taken. That's a 30% swing, which is miles ahead of whatever even the Rakata power adrenal would give you, and Crit/Surge adrenals are a terrible choice and have been since the surge nurf.

 

If you have all the gear you need in terms of PVP and have nothing else to spend your commendations on, the Expertise Adrenals are hands down the better choice to use, but you can't also use them in PVE.

[FourTwent]

The expertise adrenal increases your expertise by 15%, leading to a not very noticeable gain. Its much more effective to use power adrenals or crit/surge adrenals.

 

 

 

Using the warzone expertise is a waste of an adrenal cooldown.

 

yea. . .this is false. . .

 

expertise POINTS have a Diminishing Return. . .

 

things like the expertise buff/adrenal doesn't really have a DR. If you maxed all of your expertise giving you what, 12-14 percent expertise. that adrenal will add 15% to it, making it 27-29 percent expertise.

 

unless you require an adrenal to hit crit or surge DR, it's always better to go with the expertise one

 

that said. . .it doesn't stack with the in-warzone buff, so you should switch it up to really maximize your dps/healing/damage reduction

[Ch_Zero]

It roughly increases my expertise by 80.4

 

 

So what you guys are saying is that 80.4 expertise is > 565 AP?

 

 

that can't be right can it?

[Dorgaanian]

Not quite...noone has 100% expertise. 15% is added to the score you have for expertise, each point of expertise adds a very microscopic boost in PvP matches, feel free to hover mouse over Expertise to see what yer actually getting and the 15% is simply added to THAT score, not 15% to damage and heals...

[exphryl]

It roughly increases my expertise by 80.4

 

 

So what you guys are saying is that 80.4 expertise is > 565 AP?

 

 

that can't be right can it?

 

If you are at 10% Damage Increase, the adrenal bumps you to 25% Damage Increase (Look at your PvP Tab)

 

 

Video I made a bit ago (Basically to show adrenals don't stack with warzone buff) but you can see how the Expertise gain effects the PvP Stats on your char sheet and it is a flat 15% Increase in Damage/Healing/Reduction

Edited April 1, 2012 by exphryl

[Ch_Zero]

If you are at 10% Damage Increase, the adrenal bumps you to 25% Damage Increase (Look at your PvP Tab)

 

 

Video I made a bit ago (Basically to show adrenals don't stack with warzone buff) but you can see how the Expertise gain effects the PvP Stats on your char sheet and it is a flat 15% Increase in Damage/Healing/Reduction

 

 

 

Oh ok...

 

 

If that's the case then it is much better than AP

[Numerii]

The expertise adrenal increases your expertise by 15%, leading to a not very noticeable gain. Its much more effective to use power adrenals or crit/surge adrenals.

 

 

 

Using the warzone expertise is a waste of an adrenal cooldown.

 

You were probably the same guy who would laugh at me in the 10-49 bracket for picking up the expertise buffs in each WZ.

 

"lol serak u noob, 15% of 0 is still 0"

[Ch_Zero]

Does anyone know roughly how much of a damage increase the expertise stim is over the power one?

 

 

Accurate numbers would be great, and opinions are still validated.

 

Just want to know exactly for reference.

[BambulaGTS]

Depends if you are being pounded or just sitting on the ramp pumping damage while being ignored.

 

Cause if you are being pounded WZ adrenal is simply better cause it gives you damage reduction boost while giving damage boost (and healing if you a healer).

[Affics]

I hope they fix a bug that disable ur stealth, when u use adrenal pvp.

[L-RANDLE]

Oh ok...

 

 

If that's the case then it is much better than AP

 

Not all the time, at least until 1.2. While it does add 15% to your base, once you get past about 17%(total), the gains are effectively zero (past that amount), so you are really not getting anything out of have 27% versus 18%. Here is the expertise chart...

 

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/expertise-breakfast-of-champions/

 

Since you are hovering in the 11% to 12% range you might find the Rakata Attack adrenal more effective since it is a linear increase..

 

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/primary-and-secondary-attribute-scaling/

 

Power is a HUGE secondary stat. I will take the 130 attack/98 heal points(565*.23AP or 565*.17HP) over the 15% increase any day of the week.

 

I have this debate a lot, but the truth is expertise nerfs your main stat (and probably some secondary too depending on your setup), so while you gain 12%you lose 5-6% of main stat in the process so your net gain is really only 5 or 6%, on top of the diminishing returns when adding additional pieces. Since healing, damage, and HP are tied to your main stat and two secondary stats, most PvP items are weak compared to their PvE counterpart. Couple that with the fact that 35% PvP medpak (and my higher natural HP), has led me to believe I wont use the exp adrenal or any other PvP stuff until 1.2 comes.

 

[EDIT] Um... changed my thoughts a bit....

Edited April 3, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[flem]

This apparently needs to be posted a couple of dozen times:

 

the WZ adrenal/powerup does *not* affect your expertise number, and therefore doesn't depend/DR on how much expertise you have

 

it directly boosts your expertise *effect*, the percent +healing +damage +mitigation you've got

 

It's therefore insanely powerful.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Yeah open up your pvp tab in your character screen and pop the adrenal and you will see your damage, healing, and mitigation all get bounced up by 15%. Edited April 3, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[L-RANDLE]

This apparently needs to be posted a couple of dozen times:

 

the WZ adrenal/powerup does *not* affect your expertise number, and therefore doesn't depend/DR on how much expertise you have

 

it directly boosts your expertise *effect*, the percent +healing +damage +mitigation you've got

 

It's therefore insanely powerful.

 

It is powerful compared to having nothing, yes... The OP is comparing Rakata to PvP stuff.

It only really give significant gains in damage mitigation, but if you are worried about damage if you are any other role besides tanking/off tanking then (plus you can get a defense Rakata too and a "well rounded" Rakata Triage that does increase damage/heal and mitigation)...... That is why I said, "it depends".

 

 

Here is another example. My base damage bonus stat is ~740

EXP Adre (15%): 740*1.15= 851 (This is an effective calculation since the actual boost number does not change)

RK Attack (565 Power): 740+(~130)= 870

 

Similar calc for heals, but a bit closer say ~500 heals

EXP(15%)= 575 Eff

RK attack (565 power)= 585

 

 

All of this using the same adrenal, BUT(!!!) the one thing that trumps all, is the fact that the rakata is REUSABLE. If you want something for mitigation and damage use the triage one..

 

 

The differences are so minor that I would rather use my comms on medpaks than adrenals...

Edited April 3, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[Khoraji]

It roughly increases my expertise by 80.4

 

 

So what you guys are saying is that 80.4 expertise is > 565 AP?

 

 

that can't be right can it?

 

it adds 15% expertise, not 80 expertise stat.

[Ch_Zero]

This is started to get confusing...

 

 

One person is saying it's affected by your overall expertise.. another is saying it doesn't make a difference....

 

 

 

WHO IS RIGHT!?

[Nemectic]

It's an additive buff. If you have 0% bonus PVP damage/healing/resistance, the adrenal will move that to 15%. If you have 12.65%, the adrenal will move that to 27.65%. It doesn't actually affect your expertise stat in any way shape or form.

 

The power adrenal only has 2 advantages over PVP adrenal (in pvp) - it's reusable, and it doesn't break stealth. Bearing in mind the negligible cost, it's only really useful for stealth classes. I choose which to use in each specific situation.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Nemectic

[L-RANDLE]

This is started to get confusing...

 

 

One person is saying it's affected by your overall expertise.. another is saying it doesn't make a difference....

 

 

 

WHO IS RIGHT!?

 

1. EXP adrenals adds 15% to what ever EXP points you have. So you are at around 27% EXP when you hit one...

 

2. 15% EXP is LOWER than the gains from a Rakata Attack Adrenal. For any attack bonus you are adding ~130 more points on top. 15% expertise will never outpace this, regardless of what your base bonus damage is.

 

3. Healing is closer, but still outpaces it until you get to ~700 BASE heal bonus (is that even possible?).

 

4. Damage Mitigation: EH? Personal preference, but I would still use Rakata. If you want less heal/damage use the Rakata Triage to get 50%(!!) damage reduction, while still increaseing your heals/damage (Force/Tech Power contributes less to the damage/heal bonus than Power does).

[Cyannez]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the rakata power adrenal only gives around 470-475 power. The tooltip wasn't changed after the nerf.

 

Second the expertise adrenal is NOT affected by diminishing returns since it gives straight +15% healing / dr / healing and not expertise rating.

 

Third: the expertise adrenal scales with your gear since it gives a percentage bonus to dmg. 475 power will always give the same static dmg bonus.

 

For example using the rakata power adrenal increases my force lightning tooltip dmg from 2964 to 3326. That's 362, a 12.2% dmg increase while with my current gear the expertise adrenal gives me a 13.63% increase (going from 110% to 125% bonus dmg vs players).

 

If the expertise levels remain the same as gear gets better the dmg bonus of the power adrenal relative to your dmg will go down while the expertise adrenal will continue to stay the same (again relative to your dmg, but increasing as actual +dmg).

 

Ofc this is a moot point considering 1.2 is just around the corner and if the big increase in overall expertise goes through the dmg bonus of the expertise adrenal will also plummet.