Jakeswed Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I can't understand why this class has an aoe knockback. Assassins has so much utility already, I can't fathom why they need this incredibly powerful tool too. Knockbacks from stealth are also incredibly annoying and they are really the only class who can consistently knock you back before you can position yourself. I say remove the knockback from the general tree and give it solely to sorcs. I think it would balance out the Assassins alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I suggest Bioware read, what the poster said, and IGNORE. In my experience its Sorcerers who have too many AOE skills and knockbacks as it is. I have a Sorcerer Alt by the way. That knockback as far as jedi is concerned, is our Force of Wave, you want them to remove that from our tree, and have zero ability to blast back any swaping/ganking Imps in other words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The game seems to have a pretty consistent pattern of people who can leap cannot do AE KB and vice versa. It might be interesting from a gameplay point of view if the offensive specs can leap but not KB, though I'm not sure if that accomplishes anything useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ortof Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The game seems to have a pretty consistent pattern of people who can leap cannot do AE KB and vice versa. It might be interesting from a gameplay point of view if the offensive specs can leap but not KB, though I'm not sure if that accomplishes anything useful. Just going to throw out they can grapple and knockback. Seems counter productive. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battilea Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) I can't understand why this class has an aoe knockback. Assassins has so much utility already, I can't fathom why they need this incredibly powerful tool too. Knockbacks from stealth are also incredibly annoying and they are really the only class who can consistently knock you back before you can position yourself. Knockbacks are a key positional skill for PvE. I use them all the time to bunch guys up when tanking. And, of course, lots of fun to toss them over cliff edges. So, no, absolutely no taking away my Overload ability. Without it, the class would be less fun in PvE. Anyway, when 1.2 hits, Empire players won't be playing nearly as much huttball and this will reflect itself in the classes people play, hence how Pub teams tended to be loaded with troopers, while Empire teams have tons of sorcs. And, well, it is Huttball where knockbacks are at their most useful. Edited March 31, 2012 by Battilea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Having a knockback on a melee class is counter-intuitive. As a compromise, take away the pull from the tank tree, and share it between all of the trees. It'll make tank shadow/sins less OP, and make the DPS counterpart more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Having a knockback on a melee class is counter-intuitive. No it isn't. There are several opponents a shadow is better off kiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No it isn't. There are several opponents a shadow is better off kiting. Because a shadow is really going to kill something that isn't in melee range. I know the shadow DPS rotation. You aren't going to kill jack **** without being in melee. No, shadows will miss the knockback for the extra damage boost you get by chain pulling someone, and then knocking their *** into a fire/acid pool. It's a positioning tool that they want to keep. Anything else is just a transparent excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No it isn't. There are several opponents a shadow is better off kiting. Actually an Assassin should kite every melee opponent if possible, even non Darkness specs (though they usually won't be able to). Even with just Shock, Force Lightning, and Discharge, there's no way any melee class besides possibly a Vanguard (and that's because I've no idea what their effective range is) can possibly beat an Assassin by exchanging attacks with >4m range. I mean seriously, look at the attacks most melee class has that can hit >4m. It's usually a very sad list. There's a reason why a lot of melee feel root = stun because they can't do anything meaningful once the enemy is out of 4m. Darkness spec will pretty much beat every class exchanging attacks at the 10m range, and that includes other range classes. Since Darkness specs is generally Force-starved, there is absolutely no loss trying to kite an opponent while you're waiting for Force to regen. The worst that can happen is it didn't work but you couldn't have done anything interesting to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Because a shadow is really going to kill something that isn't in melee range. I know the shadow DPS rotation. You aren't going to kill jack **** without being in melee. No, shadows will miss the knockback for the extra damage boost you get by chain pulling someone, and then knocking their *** into a fire/acid pool. It's a positioning tool that they want to keep. Anything else is just a transparent excuse. You have zero idea what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escarrabutxaques Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No it isn't. There are several opponents a shadow is better off kiting. Force speed, slow, and slow attached to force lightning/pebble throwing thingy isnt enough? +1 for the OP. 90% of the pvping shadows/assassins are 31/0/10 or 27/0/14. 2 gap closers, knockback, selfhealing, powerful defensive abilities (forceshroud/deflection), 3 snares, 2 stuns, stealth and quite nice damage. So yeah, or remove part of their utility/mobility or reduce their damage while using darkness charge and keep the utility/cc/healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Because a shadow is really going to kill something that isn't in melee range. I know the shadow DPS rotation. You aren't going to kill jack **** without being in melee. No, shadows will miss the knockback for the extra damage boost you get by chain pulling someone, and then knocking their *** into a fire/acid pool. It's a positioning tool that they want to keep. Anything else is just a transparent excuse. Oh man... your lack of understanding of the class in question is just depressing. You are just so wrong about everything that it would be a waste of my time to try to correct you. Your very transparent argument boils down to "I got knocked into a hazard and died, so nerf what killed me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 You have zero idea what you're talking about. Is clairvoyant strike a ranged skill now? If not, you're gonna have a hard time keeping any force on ya if you're spending half of it on each project. A project that hits for 30% less damage. I think I know a little about what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Force speed, slow, and slow attached to force lightning/pebble throwing thingy isnt enough? +1 for the OP. 90% of the pvping shadows/assassins are 31/0/10 or 27/0/14. 2 gap closers, knockback, selfhealing, powerful defensive abilities (forceshroud/deflection), 3 snares, 2 stuns, stealth and quite nice damage. So yeah, or remove part of their utility/mobility or reduce their damage while using darkness charge and keep the utility/cc/healing. I would agree that kinetic shadows have too much damage. Tapering that off a bit wouldn't be a bad idea at all. Removing class abilities is a bad idea that should never be brought up. That never went anywhere good in any game. Edited March 31, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Force speed, slow, and slow attached to force lightning/pebble throwing thingy isnt enough? +1 for the OP. 90% of the pvping shadows/assassins are 31/0/10 or 27/0/14. 2 gap closers, knockback, selfhealing, powerful defensive abilities (forceshroud/deflection), 3 snares, 2 stuns, stealth and quite nice damage. So yeah, or remove part of their utility/mobility or reduce their damage while using darkness charge and keep the utility/cc/healing. This. Dark charge needs to reduce all damage done by 50%. Then shadows can keep all their tools. Edited March 31, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regurgitate Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Stop trying to make this game suck by nerfing things Make productive threads, about how resolve is ****ed or how when you guardian leap and get pulled at the same time it glitches out. Edited March 31, 2012 by Regurgitate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battilea Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 No, shadows will miss the knockback for the extra damage boost you get by chain pulling someone, and then knocking their *** into a fire/acid pool. It's a positioning tool that they want to keep. Anything else is just a transparent excuse. They don't need Overload to do that with pulling. They can just drop you in the spot. And I'm not really sure how you chain pull someone with a power that has a 45s cooldown. I don't really see the point of whining about assassins as far as the old fire/acid trap things go. I find PTs are equally nasty at it, if not nastier. And, of course, there's juggs that love to charge to root you, then follow that up with fear+snare to insure you burn. And the devs are even buffing some of that lameness, making it no longer cost force. On the bright side, the hp loss from fire will be a percent and elemental type, so it might well hurt less than it does now. And with 3 same faction possibilities, instead of just Huttball, you'll be playing a lot less of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijthae Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 As a player who played assasin as main i questioned it on my mind. Using an opener as knockback out of stealth sounded op to me at first glance because enemy doesnt have a chance to see and avoid it.However without knockback im losing a huge utility which may affect my class performance unfairly. I will constantly be victims of hidden strikes by operatives and it will make my chance to %0 because i wear light armor.I will lose unacceptable amount of survivalbility against melee who have great mobility due to force charges and lastly I will lose an interrupt against casters , specially healers as a steatthclass who is supposed lock them down. I see assasins suitable in many positions. They prevent enemy team sorcerers/sages , jaggernauts/guardians from building force speed/pass/pull/charge strategy as well as they are used as harassers in early game of the alderan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 They don't need Overload to do that with pulling. They can just drop you in the spot. And I'm not really sure how you chain pull someone with a power that has a 45s cooldown. I don't really see the point of whining about assassins as far as the old fire/acid trap things go. I find PTs are equally nasty at it, if not nastier. And, of course, there's juggs that love to charge to root you, then follow that up with fear+snare to insure you burn. And the devs are even buffing some of that lameness, making it no longer cost force. On the bright side, the hp loss from fire will be a percent and elemental type, so it might well hurt less than it does now. And with 3 same faction possibilities, instead of just Huttball, you'll be playing a lot less of it. The chain pulling deal was just bad word choice. Either way, Shadows don't need two ways to slam your *** in an acid pit. They can have one, like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Force speed, slow, and slow attached to force lightning/pebble throwing thingy isnt enough? +1 for the OP. 90% of the pvping shadows/assassins are 31/0/10 or 27/0/14. 2 gap closers, knockback, selfhealing, powerful defensive abilities (forceshroud/deflection), 3 snares, 2 stuns, stealth and quite nice damage. So yeah, or remove part of their utility/mobility or reduce their damage while using darkness charge and keep the utility/cc/healing. GJ at listing all the shadow abilities. You can list any classes abilities and make them seem OP. Firstly, self healing is easily interrupted. Seondly, powerful defensive abilities? hah, you call deflection powerful? You clearly do not even play the class. Thirdly, 3 snares? Lie. Fourth, quite nice damage? Yeah sustained is amazing, (marauder damage is better than a tanksin, and their clutch defensive abilities are way better than a shadows) I personally do not mind if they remove pull also, it is hardly useful for me anyway. One thing I agree with... reduce damage while in tank form. If you are posting because you disagree tanks should be able to do damage, take a look at vanguards, or guardians. Heavy armor, great sustained damage. Personally I agree, tanks shouldn't be able to do damage in tank form, but calling for nerfs because they have this on top of the utility, which is the only thing holding the class together atm, is just plain stupid. The other two trees need a buff, and the hybrid specs of shadows/vanguards need a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battilea Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) The chain pulling deal was just bad word choice. Either way, Shadows don't need two ways to slam your *** in an acid pit. They can have one, like everyone else. Arsenal Mercs have 2 as well, actually, with a talented Rocket Punch and Jet Boost. And then there's those snipers and sorcs, both of whom can knock you back and then immobilize you in the trap, for sorcs, it is even part of their overload. Obviously, that'll have to be nerfed. Oh, but wait, Ops have no way to do that to people. So all pulls, all knockbacks must go. Yup, the only answer. Oh, and that class without a way to put people in the fire or a good way to get out of it...that'd be the class I mainly PvP with. And once that's all fixed, we'll see about getting revenge on that girl who turned you down when you asked her to the dance in 8th grade. Edited March 31, 2012 by Battilea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Arsenal Mercs have 2 as well, actually, with a talented Rocket Punch and Jet Boost. And then there's those snipers and sorcs, both of whom can knock you back and then immobilize you in the trap, for sorcs, it is even part of their overload. Obviously, that'll have to be nerfed. Oh, but wait, Ops have no way to do that to people. So all pulls, all knockbacks must go. Yup, the only answer. Oh, and that class without a way to put people in the fire or a good way to get out of it...that'd be the class I mainly PvP with. And once that's all fixed, we'll see about getting revenge on that girl who turned you down when you asked her to the dance in 8th grade. A) Not one of those classes have a second knockback/positioning mechanic (barring the talented donkey punch). B) Operatives were never mentioned. C) Roots on knockbacks are a pain in the ***, but they aren't amazing. They're just rough to melee classes without gap closers. Oops. I guess I just invalidated B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgrassgrows Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah...remove their armor too...that is oppppppppppppppppppp:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Having a knockback on a melee class is counter-intuitive. As a compromise, take away the pull from the tank tree, and share it between all of the trees. It'll make tank shadow/sins less OP, and make the DPS counterpart more viable. False. If you remove the knock back it's going to make both specs less efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 False. If you remove the knock back it's going to make both specs less efficient. Amazing. You couldn't even fully read and comprehend three measly sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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