Assault Specialist - Why is it mostly ignored?

[Acrolepsia]

I mean, on our mirror-class forums (BH Mercs), Pyrotech tree receives plenty of attention...

 

I was wondering if theres a reason behind that

[HileyQuiggley]

Well I love Assault. I would be Assault full time if I didnt raid so much. Gunnery is quite a bit better for PvE but Assault is better for PvP for me at least.

[Gyronamics]

Gunnery is flat out better in PVP if someone stays in the open and doesn't move much.

 

Gunnery only loses to Assault if obstacles block LOS because that stops casting and Gunnery loses more everything than Assault if casting is disabled.

 

 

On another note, numbers are not EVERYTHING but still.

 

Gunnery can crit over 4k damage (demo round) on another full BM trooper (30% damage reduction) without adrenals and Grav Rounds will be doing about 1400-1500.

 

Assault can justabout do 3k crits (assault plastique) on another BM trooper and CB will be doing about 1200-1300.

 

 

That kind of thing can discourage people who don't look more closely.

 

Assault is a skirmisher and Gunnery is a turret. Neither wins at the others game but each has a specialised role.

 

 

I don't EVER recall noticing a fire specced Merc in game, I believe they're as rare as Assault Commandos....

 

Guess the Imp section is just more open minded.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Gyronamics

[jbuschell]

Gunnery commandos are very easy to deal with, interrupt interrupt interrupt los

 

My trooper is 10 if I go commando I'm going assault, I'm strictly a pvper

[Nitromonger]

I play my commando as assault in both PVP and PVE. My HiB and Assault Plastique crit for 3.5-4.5k quite often. More often than not its closer to the 3.5k, but I hit 4k in every WZ. The key to playing assault is to always use Hammer Shot to balance your ammo use. If my target it out of range or if I'm running at all, someone is going to be targeted with Hammer Shot.

 

I really find the play style to be more involved, and thus more fun than the turret style of gunnery and I have played both extensively.

[Gyronamics]

My HiB and Assault Plastique crit for 3.5-4.5k quite often. More often than not its closer to the 3.5k, but I hit 4k in every WZ.

 

In my experience those kind of numbers happen only if you're slapping up an unshielded light armour class and/or have a large experience(stat) advantage.

 

OR you blow your relic and adrenal for a short period when you can do that.

 

After much duelling practice with another BM trooper, critting over 3k with HiB (plus fire buff) or Plastique on heavy armour and 600-700 expertise is unlikely.

 

But as I say, Gunnery can do that on heavy armour without having to stack adrenal/relic, it's the 25% boost to Demo that's mostly the culprit even if you use an armour adrenal to counter the armour debuff.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Rainsfords]

Gunnery, and grav vortex more specifically, allow for increased burst from your teamates as well as yourself. Gunnery also does more damage, has better ammo management (especially with the Curtain of Fire change in 1.2) and has higher burst. It's less mobile, but there's very few warzones that don't encourage you to plant your feet at an objective, anyways.

 

Besides, go run a Warzone with a buddy whose specced Gunnery as well. If you each cast 2 grav rounds and than a demo, you're looking at 8k+ from your double Demo's alone, on top of the grav round damage (remember, you get the +% from vortex to Demo's damage, but you also doubly benefit from the -armor). While Assault may be better in something like an arena where the enemy team will coordinate their interrupts, the pure damage output of Gunnery is still huge.

 

Besides, Assault is really more a PT/Vanguard tree, like Lethality is more of a Sniper tree.

[Brandoe]

I play Assault and always have. I tried Gunnery for about 1/4 of a level when I first goto lvl 10 and the reason I left it was I found the rotation to be very boring all i did was use grav round. So I changed over to Assault (I have played a healer in most other MMO's so I wanted something different) I was happy to find when I started PvP'ing more that it fit my playstyle. I like to be on the move and dislike standing still. Learned a long time ago that a static target is an easy target. Granted this is not always the case in these games, but it's the way I like to play.

 

Is Assault a more challenging spec? That depends on your point of view. in terms of skill rotation and ammo management yes. In terms of mobility and survivabilty no.

 

The overall DPS is lower on Assault although you can if you really work get upwards of 300K dmg in a match. Although a Gunnery can do this much easier.

 

In 1vs1 Assault has a bit of an edge. At first I have to say I would just get owned by melee classes on my server as a fresh 50. but as I learned and invariably geared up I found I found that I could go toe to toe with melee classes and it was a toss up to skill who would win. Extensive use of every skill, adrenal, medpack and relic you have at your disposal is required. You do have the added advantage that the melee class is expecting an easy kill.

 

So it really comes down to playstyle and what you the player are comfortable with and whether you PvE or PvP. Gunnery is better for PvE no doubt but you can still use assault and be effective.

[Aaoogaa]

Assault vanguard > assault commando. If you want to spec assault you will want to go vanguard. Just an opinion though.

[Ihazcrayon]

Hello troopers! I have been contemplating rolling a trooper lately for fun. Let's face it they look bad *** and are pretty iconic! All I do really is PVP. My main is a 66 Bounty Hunter Mercenary Pyrotech. (the exact mirror of the commando assault). It will be the way I will spec my trooper as well. There is alot of misconceptions about the spec in both BH and trooper forums.

 

For PVP you have the potential for very high burst when you pop your relic/expertise adrenal. Timing your abilities right you can get big numbers off in 2 second window. Sorry for the lack of trooper knowledge here. But I usually start with incendiary missle to get a dot then thermal detonator then power shot. Right after power shot finishes casting I hit railshot. By the time powershot and railshot hit the target, thermal detonator blows up. Followed by an unload and another railshot if i get a proc. (interrupting unload if the proc pops up)

 

I have been able to get (RNG gods with crits on my side but it happens about half the time) 4.3k 3.8k 3.3k go off in a matter of 1 second with all the other back-loaded damage. Geared targets I can still get 3k 2.8k and 2.1k go off just the same way. I usually use my version of hammer shot and power shot to take a sorc/sage bubble away before I start my burst. It is quite easy to get 300k in a warzone even without using mortar volley/death from above to pad your numbers.

 

The vanguard/powertech version of this tree is a melee fighter with some short/med range capabilities, with the potential to be pretty beefy and use a grapple.

 

The merc/commando version of this tree is a ranged fighter with some short ranged capabilities, healing abilities, and a cleanse. Not to mention a knockback with a free snare.

 

Basically find what suits your playstyle. They are equally as good. Merc/commando CAN have the upper hand in a duel vs a vanguard/powertech. IF and only IF they time their cleanse right and kite properly. Both played by great players is a good fight either way.

 

2 nights ago I queued up with my jugg buddy in a tough warzone. Just an example of what you can do with the class with a decent team. (wish I moused over my damage stat to show my 4.3k crit) I am the only pyro merc in the pic. 1/2 bm 1/2 champ.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/screenshot2012040103324.jpg/

Edited April 2, 2012 by Ihazcrayon

[NeverRose]

I actually wanted to try assault for real on my alt, but there aren't many (any?) guides from experienced players.

 

Obviously I figured it out myself (Build + how to react in PvP situations, afterall my main is 81 shadow) but I feel I could do better.

[Gyronamics]

2 nights ago I queued up with my jugg buddy in a tough warzone. Just an example of what you can do with the class with a decent team. (wish I moused over my damage stat to show my 4.3k crit) I am the only pyro merc in the pic. 1/2 bm 1/2 champ.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/screenshot2012040103324.jpg/

 

30 kills for 450k?

 

I thought I was having a bad time with 40 kills for 470k when for almost all of alderaan 6-7/8 of both teams were catfighting at middle turret with healers spamming away from the edges.

 

Healers got 211-528k healing and dps got 111-515k damage scores that game, more towards the higher end too

 

Our healers were better though.

 

Top enemy dps did 515k and killed... 9

[Easpeak]

It's just that assault tree is not really meant for commando. It's more of a Vanguard tree. We lack certain abilities that make it shine for Vanguards

[YourMomWasHere]

It's just that assault tree is not really meant for commando. It's more of a Vanguard tree. We lack certain abilities that make it shine for Vanguards

 

Care to expound upon that? I've been playing around with a Vanguard in Assault spec. What do you think they get as part of the AC that supports the spec better than a Commando in Assault?

[Joshrus]

Assault lacks the reliable burst damage to kill a target who is being healed in pvp.

 

Gunnery has much more reliable burst. Burst damage is what kills in pvp.

 

I've played both in pvp with full champion gear. Gunnery can also solo healers as well assault is next to impossible.

 

 

Have you ever been in a warzone that has 4 healers and no bursty dps. You would think it would be unstopable. But the other team may have one or two healers with bursty dps and get facerolled and your asking your self why?

 

The team with four healers lacked burst dps. The team with two healers focus the burst and were able to kill you teamates despite having four healers and the two healers were enough to counter not having burst.

 

 

Also ever been in a wz where both teams have 4 or more healers. Pretty boringstalemate.

 

 

Its happens to me around every 5 or 6 matches. If you have not done much lvl 50 pvp warzones you won't know what I'm talking about.

[adezero]

Gunnery commandos are very easy to deal with, interrupt interrupt interrupt los

 

My trooper is 10 if I go commando I'm going assault, I'm strictly a pvper

 

don't go assault til at least level 30. you wont have the necessary talents for the spec to work.

[BobaFaceroll]

Care to expound upon that? I've been playing around with a Vanguard in Assault spec. What do you think they get as part of the AC that supports the spec better than a Commando in Assault?

 

- Vanguards reset HIB with Stock Strike and Ion Pulse, while Commando uses Charged Bolts and Full Auto. Both Vanguard skills are instant while a Commando's are channeled. That means a Vanguard Assault spec can stay fully mobile while a Commando cannot.

- Of the HIB reset skills with a cool down (Stock Strike vs. Full Auto) a Vanguard's will reset in 9 seconds while a Commando's resets in 15. They will get more chances to reset HIB over time, which means better burst DPS, and better heat management.

- The traits between trees aren't exactly the same. One key trait in particular is Ionized Ignition. On the Vanguard side it gives you a 100% chance to proc your Plasma Cell. The Commando version, Target Lock, is a ranged and tech accuracy boost. That means Vanguards can be sure of getting their DOT applied when needed, upping their DPS more and allowing them to more reliably kite with the Plasma Cell snare effect.

 

Vanguards wind up being more effective with the spec when you put things all together. The tradeoff is that a Vanguard has to be inside 10m to put these advantages to use.

Edited April 2, 2012 by BobaFaceroll

[Hugey]

Assault vanguard > assault commando. If you want to spec assault you will want to go vanguard. Just an opinion though.

 

Pretty much what I was going to post

[Niconogood]

Gunnery commandos are very easy to deal with, interrupt interrupt interrupt los

 

My trooper is 10 if I go commando I'm going assault, I'm strictly a pvper

 

The problem is that so is assault commando. You have a couple more instacasts once every 15 sec, but besides from that you are confined to casting inferior channeled abilities (FA, Charged Bolts).

 

Assault is not a commandospec, its a vanguardspec.

 

As in regard to mobility... With assault you gain some weak *** dot, and you get assault plastique. If you compare assault plastique to demolition round thats not really much more instacasts you get. The only one being the weakass dot. AND you gimp your damage.

 

The reason gunnery dont run much is because they can spam damage. Assault cant really over very inferior skills + hammershot. To do heavy damage assualtcommandos are also confined to standing still.

[Aaoogaa]

- Vanguards reset HIB with Stock Strike and Ion Pulse, while Commando uses Charged Bolts and Full Auto. Both Vanguard skills are instant while a Commando's are channeled. That means a Vanguard Assault spec can stay fully mobile while a Commando cannot.

- Of the HIB reset skills with a cool down (Stock Strike vs. Full Auto) a Vanguard's will reset in 9 seconds while a Commando's resets in 15. They will get more chances to reset HIB over time, which means better burst DPS, and better heat management.

- The traits between trees aren't exactly the same. One key trait in particular is Ionized Ignition. On the Vanguard side it gives you a 100% chance to proc your Plasma Cell. The Commando version, Target Lock, is a ranged and tech accuracy boost. That means Vanguards can be sure of getting their DOT applied when needed, upping their DPS more and allowing them to more reliably kite with the Plasma Cell snare effect.

 

Vanguards wind up being more effective with the spec when you put things all together. The tradeoff is that a Vanguard has to be inside 10m to put these advantages to use.

 

In addition to these skill differences Vanguard also get:

An interrupt to lower incomming damage.

An additional stun.

Grapple - positioning and control.

 

There really is no comparison for Vanguard assault is so much better. As a CM I have not problems vs merc assault builds. Powertech Assault ...good ones can solo me and I am not easy to kill. 1.2 this is what I am going to go with for PVP DPS when I retire my CM.

[Comieb]

I think also that the Commando only has 16% chance to trigger plasma cell, which is stupidly low chance especially when we have a few things that use it and cause a snare.

 

Makes me think, if we ditched those talents and ran around with AP cell instead, would we deal more damage with HiB, CHarged Bolts and full auto

 

Edit :

 

Something like this

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800ZMskZfcbMdGGrs.1

Edited April 6, 2012 by Comieb

[Smashbrother]

The reason why assault sucks compared to gunnery for commandoes is because it has far less burst damage. And burst damage is what kills people in pvp. In order for assault to do good damage, they need to be casting charged bolts. So essentially they're really not that much more mobile than gunnery. Charged bolts is a ranged attack and is subject to shielding and defense. Grav round is not. Plus grav rounds debuff also helps your teammates.

 

Then there is the stupid ridiculously good pve eliminator set's 2p bonus that gives grav round 15% more crit. So basically I have an almost 50% chance to crit grav round and that is just crazy.

 

Also, incendiary round costs 3 ammo which is just too much. It can also be cleansed along with your plasma cell dot by 2 of the 3 healers so an assault commando will never be able to kill a good healer.

 

Finally, assault plastique shares a CD with sticky nade. I don't know why they share a cd, it's incredibly dumb.

 

Gunnery is better period.

[Comedicgrudge]

I played 1-50 and beyond as solely gunnery. Sure I dabbled into assault a couple times, but always hated it. Since the talk of 1.2 and our big nerf started I decided to take a day and devote myself to learning how to play assault. It took me a while, but I ended up really enjoying it! Here are a few of my observations:

 

Firstly, you will not do as much damage as gunnery – period. So if big numbers on the board are your thing, assault is probably not for you. That said I have had a couple 450k+ games and I am a mix of Champ/BM/Rakata gear. I should also point out that I have an energy relic for HM Karagga's that does 200-400 every 4.5s and helps to increase the base damage of my free attacks quite a bit.

 

While at first I didn't think the burst damage was even close to gunnery I have learned how to put someone down quite fast. Assuming I have a full burn up this is what it would look like: First free cast/instacast your pyro grenade and light them on fire with incendiary round. Toss on an assault plastique and hit them with a HiB. The AP and the HiB should hit for around 6-8k total almost simultaneously plus the huge DoT's you've got on them. follow with full auto and your free cast hitting HiB's as they come up. I find very few people that can stand up to much of this, particularly because your DoT's are elemental damage that will break through a tanks shielding. Additional you can be moving throughout this while still doing damage / throwing them into hazards. As a gunnery my biggest demo round crits were around 5.6k, biggest I've gotten on an AP was 4.6k. Not too huge a gap.

 

What really sealed it for me and why I am no longer interested in playing gunnery in pvp is that you can move while doing damage – making staying on the ball or the objective WAAAY more viable. Sure I miss my big pushback and the little bit of healing spec from my gunnery build, but the freedom from snares and decreased cooldown on Tenacity make up for it.

 

Overall I have found this spec to not only be viable in damage, but way more fun than gunnery. I always had the same rotation with very little room for creativity. With assault I have a lot more options which makes me unpredictable in pvp. And when I am tooling around Ilum collecting armaments I have had no problem taking on 2v1's at least. I recommended people take a day and respec before the patch before whining about it. I've been having a blast.

[NeverRose]

The only problem is that you need to be stationary to proc free HiB with your channels.

 

 

 

"First free cast/instacast your pyro grenade" What do you mean by that? Plasma grenade has 1,5 sec cast time, no? ;o

Edited April 8, 2012 by NeverRose

[oaceen]

The only problem is that you need to be stationary to proc free HiB with your channels.

 

 

 

"First free cast/instacast your pyro grenade" What do you mean by that? Plasma grenade has 1,5 sec cast time, no? ;o

 

i never use plasma grenade without hitting tech override and/or reserve powercell. he probably does the same.