About Karen Traviss Hate...

[Raeln]

Like I said... ridiculous.

 

It's ridiculous because it's a "hand wave" as to why they're all still jaunting around the galaxy fighting the next "unstoppable enemy".

I honestly equate it as being as bad as Traviss Mandos.

 

Frank Herbert got away with it in his Dune books for two reasons.

Spice, and the continued selective breeding programmes of the Bene Gesserit and then the Tyrant Leto II.

In Star Wars, The Force fills the role of the Spice, allowing Force Users to live beyond their species' natural lifespans, and not be affected by aging in the same way as non Force Users - Yoda, Dooku and Sidious are prime examples.

 

Hand wave excuses for non Force Users is just lazy fan pampering, instead of actually having things progress when it comes to characters old and new.

 

I suppose the prolific use of cybernetics has nothing to do with extending the lifespan of the typical human being though? It's all force-based hand waving?

 

I guess our discoveries in the field of medicine had nothing to do with extending the average lifespan of humans in our "real life" from 30 to 70 either?

[Aximand]

I suppose the prolific use of cybernetics has nothing to do with extending the lifespan of the typical human being though? It's all force-based hand waving?

 

I guess our discoveries in the field of medicine had nothing to do with extending the average lifespan of humans in our "real life" from 30 to 70 either?

 

And the miracle medicine bacta has absolutely nothing to do with extending lifespans at all. Not to mention all the other medical advances that Star Wars has. Its all the mystical hand waving.

[Fyurii]

I suppose the prolific use of cybernetics has nothing to do with extending the lifespan of the typical human being though? It's all force-based hand waving?

 

I guess our discoveries in the field of medicine had nothing to do with extending the average lifespan of humans in our "real life" from 30 to 70 either?

 

Never said it was Force based hand waving, and one of the OT characters has cybernetics. A prosthetic hand doesn't extend life expectancy. Grow up.

 

 

And the miracle medicine bacta has absolutely nothing to do with extending lifespans at all. Not to mention all the other medical advances that Star Wars has. Its all the mystical hand waving.

 

Bacta's not a medical advancement that extends life. Same thing I said to Raeln applies to you. Grow up.

 

Force Users get away with it because it's Star Wars and The Force is Space Magic. Light or Dark Side, they get away with it.

A case of "Oh these medical advances that we just pulled out of our arses make it possible for a human's natural lifespan to be extended, and allow certain characters to keep going like the Energizer Bunny when they're in their sixties", is ridiculous.

 

It's as ridiculous as Boba Fett's crippling and nearly killing him disease that's cured with one injection because Traviss wanted it that way.

[Aximand]

Bacta's not a medical advancement that extends life. Same thing I said to Raeln applies to you. Grow up.

 

Force Users get away with it because it's Star Wars and The Force is Space Magic. Light or Dark Side, they get away with it.

A case of "Oh these medical advances that we just pulled out of our arses make it possible for a human's natural lifespan to be extended, and allow certain characters to keep going like the Energizer Bunny when they're in their sixties", is ridiculous.

 

It's as ridiculous as Boba Fett's crippling and nearly killing him disease that's cured with one injection because Traviss wanted it that way.

 

Yea it is. You need to brush up on lore before you enter these discussions. Bacta basically cures any disease, heals any injury and makes your immune system as strong as diamond from continued use. I think Erisi Dlarit's Grandfather lived to his 200's because of him having easy access to Bacta because he was a major share holder in a company that made the damn stuff.

 

I'll agree with you with the Boba Fett thing, that was utterly ridiculous and it only happened because Traviss has an undying and unrequited love for Boba Fett.

 

And really, it isn't that ridiculous, we have sixty year olds climbing Mt. Everest and running marathons because they're in good enough shape these days.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Aximand

[Raeln]

Never said it was Force based hand waving, and one of the OT characters has cybernetics. A prosthetic hand doesn't extend life expectancy. Grow up.

 

Oh I completely disagree.

 

Darth Vader would be quite dead if not for two prosthetic hands and two prosthetic feet.

 

Also, on a harsh world like Tatooine - losing a hand in a freak machinery accident would likely mean death at some point. Having the ability to get a cybernetic prosthetic would most certainly affect your chance at living - assuming the tech was available planet-side and affordable.

 

Cybernetics are also used for far more than just prosthetics. What exactly do you think a pacemaker is?

 

Why don't you just poll some "real life" pacemaker recipients and see how many years their lives were extended through the pacemaker technology (which is early stage cybernetics).

 

Bacta's not a medical advancement that extends life. Same thing I said to Raeln applies to you. Grow up.

 

Bacta has some wonderful healing properties. It's amazing how many people die in our "real world" from complications due to other injuries. You know, complications like pneumonia, scar tissue, and even staff infections.

 

Force Users get away with it because it's Star Wars and The Force is Space Magic. Light or Dark Side, they get away with it.

A case of "Oh these medical advances that we just pulled out of our arses make it possible for a human's natural lifespan to be extended, and allow certain characters to keep going like the Energizer Bunny when they're in their sixties", is ridiculous.

 

It's as ridiculous as Boba Fett's crippling and nearly killing him disease that's cured with one injection because Traviss wanted it that way.

 

Obviously, some things are over the top.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yea it is. You need to brush up on lore before you enter these discussions. Bacta basically cures any disease, heals any injury and makes your immune system as strong as diamond from continued use. I think Erisi Dlarit's Grandfather lived to his 200's because of him having easy access to Bacta because he was a major share holder in a company that made the damn stuff.

 

I'll agree with you with the Boba Fett thing, that was utterly ridiculous and it only happened because Traviss has an undying and unrequited love for Boba Fett.

 

And really, it isn't that ridiculous, we have sixty year olds climbing Mt. Everest and running marathons because they're in good enough shape these days.

 

Oh so its her fault that Boba lived stupidly all this time!....Damnit!

[Fyurii]

Oh I completely disagree.

 

Darth Vader would be quite dead if not for two prosthetic hands and two prosthetic feet.

 

He's dead after RoTJ though, and didn't live beyond his natural or Force influenced lifespan.

Cybernetics were necessary for him to live at all, not to extend his life. Big difference.

 

Also, on a harsh world like Tatooine - losing a hand in a freak machinery accident would likely mean death at some point. Having the ability to get a cybernetic prosthetic would most certainly affect your chance at living - assuming the tech was available planet-side and affordable.

 

Makes you wonder how much the "miraculous" medical advancements and their treatments cost that make 150 the new sixty....

 

Cybernetics are also used for far more than just prosthetics. What exactly do you think a pacemaker is?

 

Does it extend the lifespan of a person beyond the body's lifespan?

No.

It ensures that their heart keeps beating as it should do because of a medical condition that interferes with the heart's regular rythym. It does not make a person live an extra fifty years beyond the average human lifespan, and only if you're either in a country with a "free" health care system (like the NHS in Britain) or you can afford the cost of the operation.

 

Bacta has some wonderful healing properties. It's amazing how many people die in our "real world" from complications due to other injuries. You know, complications like pneumonia, scar tissue, and even staff infections.

 

It's used as a treatment for injury and disease, but it's not a "cure all" treatment. Nor does it act like gene therapy to augment a person's lifespan.

 

Obviously, some things are over the top.

 

The question is why are fans ok with "magic hand waving" medical treatment for some characters, but not others?

Is it the degree of hand wave, or you don't like that character as much?

Before answering, do remember that you're defending these "medical advances" that allow a person to live to incredible ages without being a Force User.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Fyurii

[Fyurii]

And really, it isn't that ridiculous, we have sixty year olds climbing Mt. Everest and running marathons because they're in good enough shape these days.

 

That's as much down to genes as it is their own commitment to personal health and fitness, and they're people who can afford both the lifestyle and healthcare for such things.

They're hardly indicative of advances in medical treatments, or of the average human being.

[Raeln]

He's dead after RoTJ though, and didn't live beyond his natural or Force influenced lifespan.

Cybernetics were necessary for him to live at all, not to extend his life. Big difference.

 

At the individual level - yes, cybernetics extended his lifespan. If not for cybernetics, he would have died at the end of Ep3.

 

Makes you wonder how much the "miraculous" medical advancements and their treatments cost that make 150 the new sixty....

 

Why are you so fixated on people living to 150 in a purely fictional universe?

 

You are able to accept the premise of the force being "space magic", faster-than-light space travel, Rakata-based instantaneous teleportation, Force ghosts, telekinetics, energy-based weapons that can cut or blast through nearly anything and ships that are unmanned with but a single protocol droid - but you draw the line at accepting that human beings, through technology, have been able to extend their lives - not to something extreme like 1500 years, but a mere 150 years.

 

Does it extend the lifespan of a person beyond the body's lifespan?

No.

It ensures that their heart keeps beating as it should do because of a medical condition that interferes with the heart's regular rythym. It does not make a person live an extra fifty years beyond the average human lifespan, and only if you're either in a country with a "free" health care system (like the NHS in Britain) or you can afford the cost of the operation.

 

Or if you have a currently paid insurance policy. I have a brother-in-law that is on his second pacemaker at a young age of 48. It's the only thing keeping him alive considering only about 17% of his heart remains after a massive heart attack about 10 years ago.

 

That tech sure has extended his life.

 

It's used as a treatment for injury and disease, but it's not a "cure all" treatment. Nor does it act like gene therapy to augment a person's lifespan.

 

A "cure all" is difficult to counter-balance in lore. It would be too much like the fountain of youth.

 

The question is why are fans ok with "magic hand waving" medical treatment for some characters, but not others?

Is it the degree of hand wave, or you don't like that character as much?

Before answering, do remember that you're defending these "medical advances" that allow a person to live to incredible ages without being a Force User.

 

Why are you so unwilling to accept that technology could extend human lifespans? It's not like lore is trying to assert that humans are living to 3000 years old or some extreme amount. There's been a few humans reported to live to 120 years old in our histories, 150 is not that far off when there is technology like cybernetics available.

 

If we want to get all technical, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before geneticists figure out how to stop our chromosomes from "fraying at the ends" over time, which is what is believed to cause our aging process. At that point, through technology - we may have our own major ethical issues to debate over whether to stop the aging process or not.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Raeln

[Raeln]

That's as much down to genes as it is their own commitment to personal health and fitness, and they're people who can afford both the lifestyle and healthcare for such things.

They're hardly indicative of advances in medical treatments, or of the average human being.

 

More than anything, they are the type of people that have been active for the majority of their lives and not couch potatoes.

 

If anything, one might compare them to the heroes in the movies/stories that we have read - seeing that those characters are not typically couch potatoes either.

[Fyurii]

At the individual level - yes, cybernetics extended his lifespan. If not for cybernetics, he would have died at the end of Ep3.

 

You're purposefully nitpicking over something when you know precisely what I've been saying. It's a truly childish thing to do.

 

 

Why are you so fixated on people living to 150 in a purely fictional universe?

 

You are able to accept the premise of the force being "space magic", faster-than-light space travel, Rakata-based instantaneous teleportation, Force ghosts, telekinetics, energy-based weapons that can cut or blast through nearly anything and ships that are unmanned with but a single protocol droid - but you draw the line at accepting that human beings, through technology, have been able to extend their lives - not to something extreme like 1500 years, but a mere 150 years.

 

Not people living to an age of 150, but specific people in that fictional universe.

Giving them extended lifespans in a "hand wave" manner that depicts it as something everyday, just so they can still be written about as having wild adventures and fighting the next "bid bad" that comes along.

 

I'm fine with Force Users getting the "space magic" "hand wave" because The Force is something that's been shown to do this for Force Users by various means and techniques far enough back in lore and often enough over the course of the EU's history.

 

I've never said I was fine with everything in Star Wars, or everything with The Force and the abilities it grants. Quite a lot of it is ridiculous in my opinion.

Flow walking and phasing are two examples of "*** were they thinking" when they had the ideas.

 

Emerald Lightning/Electric Judgement is definitely another example of "why?" when trying to come up with new abilities for Jedi to have access to.

"Oh, let's have Jedi using Lightning, but a special Light Side version!!!".

[westraz]

do to she "killed" (all thow it was really the pushers that did that) Mara Jade and more or less came off saying I can do that if I wont to... then CW tried to make the mandalorians in too pice lovers, and she tryed to name her self the queen bee of the mandalorians, that noting can change with them with out her say so... so more or less she comes off looking like a witch... if you know what I mean

[SweetOldBob]

Why do people hate her so much? I thought her Clone books were pretty good...when I was in 6th grade.

 

I loved her books about the Mandos, and she was clearly the best (by far) of the 3 authors in that story arc. It's a shame that she and the Lucas people have parted ways.

[Fyurii]

I loved her books about the Mandos, and she was clearly the best (by far) of the 3 authors in that story arc. It's a shame that she and the Lucas people have parted ways.

 

That was the problem. She made her contribution to that series of books about Boba Fett and the Mandos.

 

I doubt it would have caused as much of a problem as it did, if it were a seperate and Mando centred series. Unfortunately for everyone involved, it wasn't.

[BrandonSM]

 

Why are you so fixated on people living to 150 in a purely fictional universe?

 

You are able to accept the premise of the force being "space magic", faster-than-light space travel, Rakata-based instantaneous teleportation, Force ghosts, telekinetics, energy-based weapons that can cut or blast through nearly anything and ships that are unmanned with but a single protocol droid - but you draw the line at accepting that human beings, through technology, have been able to extend their lives - not to something extreme like 1500 years, but a mere 150 years.

 

 

 

.

 

The reason I personally don't like it is because the OT Characters need to die. Almost all of the Post-ROTJ EU Revolves around them, when it can be better. Thats my opinion.

 

 

But who is too argue? SW was meant for those characters to be the star.

[casirabit]

mefit;3713445

 

What book have you wroten ? Most Professors have work that a student can follow? You have anything to prove? What school? What State? I can come up with many Jobs , professions , careers with easy and show anything you'd like answers to. To be honest the fact that you even posted your work online means you are trying to go above and beyond to try to approve something, And IF you are a Professor by Trade, I find you to be one that should not be in that trade when you have to go as low to call someone a "KID" for questioning your trade. Usually Professors try to be professional as they are working in a field that requires one to look Professional and respectful at all timesz

 

 

I don't usually defend Walsh as we have had too many disagreements in the past but in this case there is no reason for you to dispute that he is a Proffessor. You have no right to do so. He has stated he is a Professor and that is enough for me.

 

You will find different walks of life in this game. Some work in the medical field, some in the legal field and some are Professors and that discussion isn't really up to debate.

 

Note: Walsh don't think for one minute this will change my opinion on things.

Edited April 2, 2012 by casi

[ProfessorWalsh]

Note: Walsh don't think for one minute this will change my opinion on things.

 

Honestly Casi, I would lose respect for you if it did change your opinion on things. While we may disagree, vehemently so, on most topics, there are topics where we have agreed. We both strongly believe what we believe and we are willing to defend that to the hilt. I have great respect for that.

 

Simply because we dislike the positions of the other and we both question the other one's tactics (And we both are guilty of some pretty petty and hypocritical moves and arguments) don't mean we can't defend each other or even come to an understanding.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Like I said... ridiculous.

 

You do know that real life medical science is reaching the point now where within the next 40 years people will have lifespans of around 150-200 years right? There are already a number of techniques in the clinical testing stages that could theoretically double and in some cases triple the human life span.

 

Heck there is a rat now that has lived for well over 18 years thanks to those treatments and that is a long time for a rat. Also note, they were able to rejuvenate an old rat to the point that it completely resembled an adolescent rat.

[ProfessorWalsh]

That's as much down to genes as it is their own commitment to personal health and fitness, and they're people who can afford both the lifestyle and healthcare for such things.

They're hardly indicative of advances in medical treatments, or of the average human being.

 

You do know that we are working on techniques that will allow us to genetically alter people at birth and in some cases after birth. Things like genetic re-sequencing and such. Those kinds of things exist in Star Wars. Heck, people in Star Wars can even undergo full blown rejuvenation treatments.

[casirabit]

Honestly Casi, I would lose respect for you if it did change your opinion on things. While we may disagree, vehemently so, on most topics, there are topics where we have agreed. We both strongly believe what we believe and we are willing to defend that to the hilt. I have great respect for that.

 

Simply because we dislike the positions of the other and we both question the other one's tactics (And we both are guilty of some pretty petty and hypocritical moves and arguments) don't mean we can't defend each other or even come to an understanding.

 

Well I take that as a compliment and I will defend anyone that I can see warrants it. And I agree I can be quite stubborn on some things.

[Mirdthestrill]

I don't usually defend Walsh as we have had too many disagreements in the past but in this case there is no reason for you to dispute that he is a Proffessor. You have no right to do so. He has stated he is a Professor and that is enough for me.

 

There's nothing I agree with Walsh about, but you're right. Just because we don't agree with his viewpoints doesn't mean we have the right to attempt to discredit him. Be careful not to become the very thing you're trying to abolish, Mefit.

[Restepor]

I really enjoyed Order 66 when I read it, which was the only book of her I'll ever read. Not long after that, she lost all credibility with me.

 

I'm a self-admitted "Fandalorian," as I was always fascinated by Fett (and later the broader scope of Mandalorians in the EU... mostly through the comics rather than the novels though), but as mentioned by others, some of the abilities that Traviss granted them were definitely over the top.

 

What really got me (and many others) though, is that she directly attacked her own fans who pointed out conflicts with established lore that she never bothered to research before writing the books, and she also killed a character invented by another author (who was also still writing SW books with that character in it)... without even discussing it with the other author. She even went as far as calling the fans terrorists ("Talifans" and Jedi Neo-Nazis and things like that).

 

If you're going to write Sci-Fi novels based off a popular Sci-Fi series, expect some overzealous fans. It comes with the territory and the money.

 

This, really killing Mara kinda did it for everyone. At least Mr. Zahn should have been able to write the death of his character, maybe one of his best as well.

[Captain_Zone]

I don't usually defend Walsh as we have had too many disagreements in the past but in this case there is no reason for you to dispute that he is a Proffessor. You have no right to do so. He has stated he is a Professor and that is enough for me.

 

You will find different walks of life in this game. Some work in the medical field, some in the legal field and some are Professors and that discussion isn't really up to debate.

 

Note: Walsh don't think for one minute this will change my opinion on things.

 

I agree to an extent. I first butted heads with Prof. last week or the week before, but then Axi and Rayla set me straight. Now there are things we disagree on, and things we agree on. Stuff happens, and we move on. That's life for ya. I've never been one to hold a grudge against someone that doesn't deserve it. And to me, disagreeing on Star Wars lore isn't worth holding a grudge over.

 

Now, Karen Traviss on the other hand.... lol

[TKMaster]

There's nothing I agree with Walsh about, but you're right. Just because we don't agree with his viewpoints doesn't mean we have the right to attempt to discredit him. Be careful not to become the very thing you're trying to abolish, Mefit.

 

I also agree, he's a Jedi fanboy at Troy Denning levels and tbh kind of a know-it-all and that rubs me the wrong way but i wouldnt personally attack his real life. LOL, no one would guess i have a Ph.D in Archeology and anthropology so i know for a fact you cant tell who someone is online.

Edited April 3, 2012 by TKMaster

[ScarletBlaze]

I don't usually defend Walsh as we have had too many disagreements in the past but in this case there is no reason for you to dispute that he is a Proffessor. You have no right to do so. He has stated he is a Professor and that is enough for me.

 

You will find different walks of life in this game. Some work in the medical field, some in the legal field and some are Professors and that discussion isn't really up to debate.

 

Note: Walsh don't think for one minute this will change my opinion on things.

 

I agree Casi. I rarely have agreed with him but attacking his personal life is something that isn't done.

 

Disagreeing on lore or other items is fine as everyone has an opinion but attacking his personal life and what he does in real life is wrong. That goes beyond arguing over opinions.