ARENAS/Death match....NOW

[Cial]

The problem is that we end up affected regardless of whether we participate or not. From what I remember, complaints about class balancing happen most frequently in WOW from experiences in PVP. "This class is overpowered! This class is completely useless!" Have you ever heard that? And we all know what happens next: buffs and nerfs. And what happens next? MORE COMPLAINING ABOUT IMBALANCE! And the icing on the cake is now they are not only receiving complaints from pvper's, but also from those who pve, because the buffs and nerfs affect you even if you DON'T pvp.

 

THIS is why we're against arenas.

 

 

This already happens with the current pvp (warzones), I don't see how adding Arenas changes anything significantly. Your argument only makes sense if BW removed PVP completely from Tor.

[Swidgin]

The problem is that we end up affected regardless of whether we participate or not. From what I remember, complaints about class balancing happen most frequently in WOW from experiences in PVP. "This class is overpowered! This class is completely useless!" Have you ever heard that? And we all know what happens next: buffs and nerfs. And what happens next? MORE COMPLAINING ABOUT IMBALANCE! And the icing on the cake is now they are not only receiving complaints from pvper's, but also from those who pve, because the buffs and nerfs affect you even if you DON'T pvp.

 

THIS is why we're against arenas.

 

I couldn't agree more...And the fact that those NERFs & Buffs come are a GOOD thing.

 

No one pushes the limits of a class more so then END GAME PVPers, and if the balance is off WE FIND IT! And they FIX IT! Works for EVERYONE!

 

The PVE implications ARE a problem BUT NOT IN SWTOR! they were smart ENOUGH to put in PVE only moves that can be scaled to fix ENDGAME PVE DPS/Healing....

 

NEXT!

[Varicite]

No I am not talking about WoW arena. I am talking about Arenas in general. It's not like it is not happening now. Go search for videos on Tatooine. Quite a few, with large gatherings. End result? Sorc got creamed in every single battle. It will open a floodgate of QQing on balancing classes based on which class destroys which class constantly in an arena. Then hell will break loose.

 

 

 

^ No I think you are referring to the noob suggesting the 150m * 250m pretending focus fire on a squishy is not 17k to 0k in under 4 sec. Yea, that's skills alright, especially with more than half the players with pull/jump lol.

 

I saw those matches, and even the people in the video themselves acknowledged how terrible an arena that was for squishy caster dps.

 

Again, there's no reason to adjust class balance for small-scale arenas, as there don't need to be any real awards. Just skirmish type matches.

 

In an easier to get to place, preferably by queue, instead of having to organize an entire event and then drag everyone to some backwater planet w/ all that travel time and load screens.

 

There's a reason nobody goes to Outlaw's Den, and it's not because they don't like PvP. It's because there is absolutely no reason to hang out on Tatooine and wait for hours on end for 1 lowbie to show up to complete their PvP quest.

 

It's PvP, and deathmatch is usually one of the most basic types of PvP matches. I don't see any reason not to include them eventually, especially since there are so many people who would be interested in them.

 

If you don't want to do smaller-scale PvP, then... don't?

[Varicite]

At the risk of being a little rude it's actually an easy question to answer...

 

If arenas come into the game then they will be rated. People that get a BAD rating in arenas....ALL OF THESE PEOPLE.......feel like they're opinions don't count as much when it comes to PVP anymore Bcuz there is proof that they are not good at it.

 

Those are a lot of assumptions you're making, but none of them are facts.

 

Also, opinions are important from both the high and low ends of PvP for balance, although when considering the breadth of a class' capabilities, I can agree that I'd rather hear more from people who have a firm grasp of the game PvP-wise.

 

Just look at these forums and you will see posts every day about magical 31/31/31/31/31/31 spec'd Sorcs stealthing and pulling people to the goal line while one-shotting them w/ Force Lightning, or Powertech hitting for 14k in one global as tank spec.

 

Do you honestly think these opinions should be as important as someone who actually knows what they're talking about?

Edited March 31, 2012 by Varicite

[Sir_Toothless]

I couldn't agree more...And the fact that those NERFs & Buffs come are a GOOD thing.

 

No one pushes the limits of a class more so then END GAME PVPers, and if the balance is off WE FIND IT! And they FIX IT! Works for EVERYONE!

 

The PVE implications ARE a problem BUT NOT IN SWTOR! they were smart ENOUGH to put in PVE only moves that can be scaled to fix ENDGAME PVE DPS/Healing....

 

NEXT!

 

Pve only moves don't work in endgame PVE content. Do some research.

 

Balancing a game around 1v1, or 2v2 or 3v3 pvp is a horrible idea unless that is the sole purpose of the game.

 

On a side note, I'm all for an 8v8 deathmatch ranked warzone to be added to the other ranked warzones. Anything less than 8v8 though loses the whole purpose of a team game.

 

If people want to duel, then go to your server page set up make it know that there will be dueling in the Promenade or in Voss, etc.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Sir_Toothless

[Sir_Toothless]

Easy man, no need to get rude on me, It's my opinion. I like me. Fiftysix WOW rogue, Rated BGS and Arena rankings are right there for you to look up....

 

I've played WITH & AGAINST the greatest PVPers in the WORLD....YOU?

 

For reals, stop this nonsense about the greates PvPers in the world.

 

The greatest pvpers in WoW, sure.

But greatest in the world, No.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Sir_Toothless

[Agooz]

Balancing the game around the SMALLEST number of classes possible is the GREATEST way for OVERALL game Balance!

 

You had a bad time in Arenas lost had a BAD rating and EVERYONE saw it and STOPPED listening to your opinions as a result.

 

I am sorry for you but that shouldn't stop us from playing what we want to play.

 

Ok now, so what you want is a playground for little kids to play and pull at each others' hair, while the grownups go do Objective based WZs. Ok sorry, I didnt notice that lollypop in your hand.

[Izola]

So ive been doing some research on this whole arena in Tor subject, turns out were looking at arenas in late June, just as rated preseason comes to an end.

 

The stream chat i was in had a "higher up" Dev from Tor, and he simply atated, how could we not have arenas in the game, look for em mid to late June.

 

I have a feeling they are gonna do the same thing as they did with ilum, which is hide it untill release. A nice little surprise for us PvP'ers.

 

[Varicite]

Ok now, so what you want is a playground for little kids to play and pull at each others' hair, while the grownups go do Objective based WZs. Ok sorry, I didnt notice that lollypop in your hand.

 

I would like to do both, really.

 

There's nothing wrong w/ smaller-scale PvP, like 4v4s.

 

We've been doing objective-based PvP for months straight, it's not like most of us aren't already BMs on at least 1 character. I can sneak a turret blindfolded, and I've pretty much perfected leaping from any possible angle and still grappling a ball carrier into the pit. That Voidstar jump? I can make it more often than not now.

 

A little variety would be nice.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Varicite

[Izola]

Ok now, so what you want is a playground for little kids to play and pull at each others' hair, while the grownups go do Objective based WZs. Ok sorry, I didnt notice that lollypop in your hand.

 

LOL @ ^

 

I've NEVER encountered a FAIL this STRONG

 

It's like a MILLION voices cried out and were suddenly silenced!

Edited March 31, 2012 by Izola

[broganthomas]

I said no REWARDS or gear, so I didn't mean it should be rated; here, there will be no RATINGS/rewards/gear/fun/bragging rights so calm down, I and others already do 2v2/3v3 for no personal gain other then the pure enjoyment out of it so why can't we have the option for them? Jesus, you know some people played Arena for fun and didn't take it personal, right? It's a game, you'll get over it the next day(Hopefully). Again, if it didn't have ratings or rewards, who cares?

[Swidgin]

Ok now, so what you want is a playground for little kids to play and pull at each others' hair, while the grownups go do Objective based WZs. Ok sorry, I didnt notice that lollypop in your hand.

 

I thought this was just special!

 

Why not just come right out and say

 

"I'm bad at arenas. I have to hide behind 7 others in a BIG WZ where no one can see me make a misstake. If it's a SMALL group then I'll actually have to do things that are PRO to win, and I can't be asked to do that!"

Edited March 31, 2012 by Swidgin

[Agooz]

I thought this was just special!

 

Why not just come right out and say

 

"I'm bad at arenas. I have to hide behind 7 others in a BIG WZ where no one can see me make a misstake. If it's a SMALL group then I'll actually have to do things that are PRO to win, and I can't be asked to do that!"

 

Thank you for confirming the childish nature of the likes of you.

[Haeso]

LIES...The greatest PVPers in the world (WOW) are Gladiators not Grand Marshels.

 

Lol, troll? WoW PvP has a pathetic skill cap, try an FPS or RTS then get back to me, even a fighting game has more depth.

[broganthomas]

Ok now, so what you want is a playground for little kids to play and pull at each others' hair, while the grownups go do Objective based WZs. Ok sorry, I didnt notice that lollypop in your hand.

 

No, you're right, this was really mature. The pot calling the kettle black.

[Swidgin]

Lol, troll? WoW PvP has a pathetic skill cap, try an FPS or RTS then get back to me, even a fighting game has more depth.

 

RTS I agree, but not really the PVP I was talking about...

 

BUT LOL @ FPS...and u ask if I'm a troll?

[Knockerz]

I thought this was just special!

 

Why not just come right out and say

 

"I'm bad at arenas. I have to hide behind 7 others in a BIG WZ where no one can see me make a misstake. If it's a SMALL group then I'll actually have to do things that are PRO to win, and I can't be asked to do that!"

 

So what if he is bad or whatever. You can't have an elite player base without a bottom. What worst you type of attitude is exactly why a lot of players who may not be that great in pvp stop pvping. What do you think will happen to arena if bottom or majority of bads stop participating or worst leave the game? What you get is what's happen in wow arena. There is no bottom. It's like raids in bc for wow, the most hardcore raiders ran sunwell, but in pvp it's more like only the most hardcore do arenas any more. At any rate, loss of participation means less resources for arena and lack of interest on the part of the developers . Thus, arena is stale in wow.

 

Ultimately,mmorpg are about making money not about who is the most skill at this game. If bad players choose to protest with their wallets it doesn't matter how much you scream major changes will be made like gear normalization, reduction in rewards for top players, or more hardline changes that benefit the bads as you call them.

 

 

I don't really care if arenas are put in game or not, but I don't want BW to use resources for arenas. That is the problem many of us have with arena's being implemented. Now if people who want arenas were charged extra or payed a one time fee and if the numbers were great enough to pay for arena's development I would have no problem. However, it's rather dubious for some you to push the arena agenda when their are no solid evidence that their is enough of a demand for arenas in the general population to justify it's creation.

 

 

My guess is there isn't enough of demand for arenas in the swtor population to warrant it's creation or else the developers would have already done it. As usual the arena pvp crowd is always a very loud vocal minority in the forums. You can make as many threads as you want, but arena isn't exactly popular in wow or any mmorpg at moment. If you really want to arena why don't you go to the outlaw den or just make your own player driven arena system? It isn't about arena for you, but about the recognition and epeen factor as usual.

 

If arenas get implemented using development resources I will quit since there are more important issues in pvp or pve, than a junk arena system for a system that will probably non existent in mmorpgs in the future. If you want an mmorpg to listen to you, you need to answer with your wallet. Thus, this thread is a complete waste of time. Now if BW considers people who want arena expendable, then your numbers never mattered.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Knockerz

[broganthomas]

So ive been doing some research on this whole arena in Tor subject, turns out were looking at arenas in late June, just as rated preseason comes to an end.

 

The stream chat i was in had a "higher up" Dev from Tor, and he simply atated, how could we not have arenas in the game, look for em mid to late June.

 

I have a feeling they are gonna do the same thing as they did with ilum, which is hide it untill release. A nice little surprise for us PvP'ers.

 

 

Well I hope you're right, because right now I have yet to see a valid reason for not having smaller scale pvp battles other than some people don't care for them.. The only reasons for not having this option, mentioned by others are that it would ruin class balance, even though we already see people whining about balance in warzones. And worse, rated warzones aren't even out yet, so I know there is a flood of tears to come about balance.

[Varicite]

My guess is there isn't enough of demand for arenas in the swtor population to warrant it's creation or else the developers would have already done it. As usual the arena pvp crowd is always a very loud vocal minority in the forums. You can make as many threads as you want, but arena isn't exactly popular in wow or any mmorpg at moment. If you really want to arena why don't you go to the outlaw den or just make your own player driven arena system? It isn't about arena for you, but about the recognition and epeen factor as usual.

 

If arenas get implemented using development resources I will quit since there are more important issues in pvp or pve, than a junk arena system for a system that will probably non existent in mmorpgs in the future. If you want an mmorpg to listen to you, you need to answer with your wallet. Thus, this thread is a complete waste of time. Now if BW considers people who want arena expendable, then your numbers never mattered.

 

Um, this is requested almost every single day. There are a lot more people who are in favor of small-scale PvP deathmatch-style play than you are taking into account.

 

They are going to use resources to make it happen eventually, it's a given. It's really only a matter of time.

 

Also, your "answer w/ your wallet" part makes absolutely no sense, because if everyone who wants an Arena system quits playing, obviously it will never happen. Which is exactly what you want, I take it. I don't feel like playing another game; I like SWTOR, I paid for SWTOR, and I enjoy the PvP in SWTOR. Sometimes I'd like to do some PvP that isn't entirely focused on objectives. I know, what a bastard I am!

 

I've answered why Outlaws' Den is not ideal for players a few times in this thread already. It's the same reason Ilum is empty, even though there are plenty of people who love world PvP.

 

Maybe everyone else considers the issues you care about to be "junk", but I'm sure you'd still like to see them dealt w/.

 

I personally would love to see small-scale skirmishes implemented, and as a paying customer, I have every right in the world to request that, just like they have every right to deny it.

 

But they won't, because they're already working on how to implement it, I assure you.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Varicite

[aarka]

4 v 4 small map death match with optional queuing wouldn't hurt anyone. Lower rewards due to time length.

 

Those who want to play it, go ahead. Objective based PvP is great but sometimes players want to kill others, without having to keep an eye on a door/turret. If you don't like, don't queue for it.

[WNxAbaddon]

I played Arenas in WoW 2v2.

 

Now the only problem I see is that Bioware will start balancing pvp based on the arena matches, you will see a million topics like. Me and my team mates cant beat X class QQ nurf them or buff my class now !!! just like on WoW

 

Team pvp is more skilled then areas, in areas the class with the most imbalance will win most, just like wow. if they fix class balance ( something they can never do ) then areas will be a good idea. But sadly there to many children QQ about X class or Y ability to have any real balance in this game.

 

In 8 man teams you can counter the most OP classes with good team work but in arenas you will see the most OP class winning.

[Varicite]

I played Arenas in WoW 2v2.

 

Now the only problem I see is that Bioware will start balancing pvp based on the arena matches, you will see a million topics like. Me and my team mates cant beat X class QQ nurf them or buff my class now !!! just like on WoW

 

Team pvp is more skilled then areas, in areas the class with the most imbalance will win most, just like wow. if they fix class balance ( something they can never do ) then areas will be a good idea. But sadly there to many children QQ about X class or Y ability to have any real balance in this game.

 

In 8 man teams you can counter the most OP classes with good team work but in arenas you will see the most OP class winning.

 

That's not really what we're asking for in this particular thread, though.

 

We were talking about 4v4, which is a bit better balanced than WoW's 2v2 affairs (I used to play back then too).

 

The balancing issues were why we were requesting that there be no rewards, titles, etc, just a queue.

 

Basically exactly like the old Arena Skirmish (the unrated practice matches) system, not the actual Arena. I'm honestly afraid of them instating a ratings-based Arena at this point in time, but skirmishes would be fine.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Varicite

[KhealThar]

Arenas - kill this guy...kill him now...kill him now. game over

 

Objectives at least involve more strategy. And they incorporate the "hard" parts of arenas, such as coordinating CCs and good positioning.

 

rofl I love people who think arena is just zerg one guy then the next, shows who the 1500 heroes are.

 

Anyone who thinks arena style combat doesn't bring more competition and player skill to the game than objective based pvp does, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Random warzones are currently not competitive at all lol

Edited March 31, 2012 by KhealThar

[LillyWhiteS]

NO WAY....

 

BW needs to concentrate on big scale PvP, forts to capture and that type of stuff, PvP that will keep you interested for hours with multiple warbands/ops working together to achieve objectives and create a great community like Warhammer did on my server Ironclaw.

 

That way warzones will settle into the right role, secondary and for variety and not be the main PvP, it's the fact we currently have to play them more than they should be, due to no working world PvP, that they have become too repetitive...

 

The main thing from WoW I would like is an Alterac Valley type Warzone, bigger map, participant size and objective type, to add more variety to warzones and get away from just 8 v 8 and to tide people over until World PvP/PvP lake is fixed.

Edited March 31, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[KhealThar]

NO WAY....

 

BW needs to concentrate on big scale PvP, forts to capture and that type of stuff, PvP that will keep you interested for hours with multiple warbands/ops working together to achieve objectives and create a great community like Warhammer did on my server Ironclaw.

 

That way warzones will settle into the right role, secondary and for variety and not be the main PvP, it's the fact we currently have to play them more than they should be, due to no working world PvP, that they have become too repetitive...

 

The main thing from WoW I would like is an Alterac Valley type Warzone, bigger map, participant size and objective type, to add more variety to warzones and get away from just 8 v 8 and to tide people over until World PvP/PvP lake is fixed.

 

Arena would create a huge community that isn't strictly server based. Arenajunkies.com is an example, a huge arena community from World of Warcraft.

 

They can have arena while also having large scale pvp battles you know. They can balance the game around Arena for the more competitive people and have huge fun battles for the guys who just want to work as a huge team to beat another.

 

The game could be completely unbalanced in 3v3/4v4 and you wouldn't even notice it in 100v100.

 

Arena would have little to no effect on world pvp.