Pvp imbalence from the perspective of a Sin.

[mamosh]

you sir need to roll a scoundrel and then go back to your assassin then rethink what you complained about

 

i have both and sin rolls so much smoother

Edited March 31, 2012 by mamosh

[Squatdog_nz]

Second, don't lie about the burst damage of operative compared to infiltration shadow, operative is simply better both burst and sustained comparatively, shadows have 12 seconds (including cloak) before force drain is so critical that it is impossible to do anything. Also simple fact: shadow burst is less than op. Assassin may have a .5 second longer stun equivalent, but this actually allows ops to stun lock a target without maxing resolve as fast.

 

Burst damage from stealth is the Operative's CLASS ROLE and it's sustained damage is a JOKE compared to Assasin DPS specs and on par with the tank spec outside of stealth.

 

Third, compared to our defensive cooldown (12 seconds of 50% dodge, on average this is going to save us 2-3k damage, 4k if we are really lucky... it is on a way longer CD) Dumb example?

 

What a load of crap.

 

50% dodge over the course of 12sec is potentially a LOT of damage.

 

A sub-2k bubble on a 45sec cooldown is NOTHING. Post this on the Operative forum and people will be rolling on the floor laughing at you.

 

I don't think so. Plus I like how you have conveniently left out my comment about the 10% extra damage reduction gets, simply from armor.

 

A whole 10%?

 

Whoop-de-doo.

 

Fourth, 2k heal, when compared to shadow getting nothing, GJ you are really intelligent. Thanks for helping me prove my point.

 

Because it's a pathetically weak heal sub-2k that isn't viable in PVP because you have to sit still and cast over 2.5 seconds. Even if your opponent doesn't interrupt it, the heal will be eaten up in his next crit.

 

What part of this can you possibly not understand?

 

Meanwhile, Assassins have multiple self-heal effects (depending on spec) that instantly proc.

 

LOL!

 

Fifth, Who are you to compare a tank spec to a burst spec anyway? NEWSFLASH: They are two different things.

 

Because the Assassin tank spec can put out as much DPS as dedicated DPS specs (while retaining the survivability and versatility of the tank spec) which is the WHOLE POINT and the main reason that Assassins are overpowered in PVP.

 

LOL!

[VSutra]

Because the Assassin tank spec can put out as much DPS as dedicated DPS specs (while retaining the survivability and versatility of the tank spec) which is the WHOLE POINT and the main reason that Assassins are overpowered in PVP.

 

LOL!

 

LOL LOOLOLOOOL... oh sorry, for a minute, I thought I was you and just typing 'LOL' means I've provided evidence and backed up all my statements into a cohesive package of facts.

 

Assassin tank cannot put out as much dps as a dedicated DPS spec. For instance, a well played OP will still out dmg a tank assassin, in burst and overall damage. How is this fact?

 

Shadows/Assassins have barely been touched by bioware for a long time, and then they nerfed 'em a little to make stance dancing fairly impossible during combat, and buffed kinetic last tier ability. They didn't really do anything else. Nobody has complained about shadow/sin tanks, and now all of a sudden people are spewing diatribe and selling it off as facts that shadow/sin tanks outdmg dedicated dps specs ? Really?

 

Again, I do not play shadow tank, I play shadow infil, I've seriously yet to see any shadow tank that can burst as I can, and out dmg me overall. And I know a lot of well played scoundrels/ops on my server, they out dmg pretty much every other class.

[xDevious]

Hi, I also made a post about deception changes here

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=378943

 

Can agree needs some change. Would love a dev to look at the #s

[Jo-Han]

LOL LOOLOLOOOL... oh sorry, for a minute, I thought I was you and just typing 'LOL' means I've provided evidence and backed up all my statements into a cohesive package of facts.

 

Assassin tank cannot put out as much dps as a dedicated DPS spec. For instance, a well played OP will still out dmg a tank assassin, in burst and overall damage. How is this fact?

 

Shadows/Assassins have barely been touched by bioware for a long time, and then they nerfed 'em a little to make stance dancing fairly impossible during combat, and buffed kinetic last tier ability. They didn't really do anything else. Nobody has complained about shadow/sin tanks, and now all of a sudden people are spewing diatribe and selling it off as facts that shadow/sin tanks outdmg dedicated dps specs ? Really?

 

Again, I do not play shadow tank, I play shadow infil, I've seriously yet to see any shadow tank that can burst as I can, and out dmg me overall. And I know a lot of well played scoundrels/ops on my server, they out dmg pretty much every other class.

 

It is true that tank-shadows cant do as much damage as a decection/infiltration shadow. But they do a LOT more damage than any other tank spec and have a gazillion tricks that the other tank classes lack. I play both a tank shadow and a marauder and comparing the two make the marauder look like a joke. True, the marauders damage output is higher, but the combination of high, steady damage and great survivability make the tank shadow incredibly powerful.

 

I dont think anyone want to nerf the infiltration tree. That tree needs a survivability buff if anything. Its the tank tree that needs to be checked. If shadow tanks should have a higher damage output than other tanks their survivability needs to be nerfed. And vice versa. If their defensive abilities should be high, their defenses should be lowered.

 

Marauders are a joke to my shadow tank. They are my preferred enemy.

[Squatdog_nz]

It is true that tank-shadows cant do as much damage as a decection/infiltration shadow. But they do a LOT more damage than any other tank spec and have a gazillion tricks that the other tank classes lack. I play both a tank shadow and a marauder and comparing the two make the marauder look like a joke. True, the marauders damage output is higher, but the combination of high, steady damage and great survivability make the tank shadow incredibly powerful.

 

I dont think anyone want to nerf the infiltration tree. That tree needs a survivability buff if anything. Its the tank tree that needs to be checked. If shadow tanks should have a higher damage output than other tanks their survivability needs to be nerfed. And vice versa. If their defensive abilities should be high, their defenses should be lowered.

 

Marauders are a joke to my shadow tank. They are my preferred enemy.

 

This.

 

The Assassin tanking tree is stacked with damage-enhancing skills which give it comparable PVP damage output to DPS classes, while having FAR more survivability and versatility.

[Seriasx]

Any nerf without a proper balance and a fix kills the class, simple as that.

Sins/Shadows only have one pvp effective spec, the other two are sub-par at best in the current chokepoint warzone pvp setting and neither will be optimal for rated WZ premade teams.

 

Im deception, while i love the spec and im not bad at playing it, it's heartbreaking to watch the Kinetic/Darkness and hybrids butcher the class. The worst thing is now ilum is dead im forced into warzones exclusively for pvp, deception and madness are far too squishy to do anything but pick off lame-ducks away from the main focus of the action. Been screwing around with a vengeance and rage spec jugger recently and they are far tougher than my assassin and do pretty much the same or slightly better DPS plus do a staggering amount of AoE damage while my poor lil deception sin has no AoE abilities and the madness sins only really have death field which is pap compared to smash.

 

I would take a tankassin in a premade WZ group, i would not take any other sin/shadow spec as there are far better DPS options most of which have decent utility and better survivability. A dead DPS deals no damage and a DPS who takes too much damage is a liability.

 

 

if that was true then the Sniper class would not be an option at character creation.

 

 

Sins are in a very good position right now and in a better one once 1.2 hits, I'd just try and stay under the radar if you want to keep what you already have.

[-Alma-]

The Assassin tanking tree is stacked with damage-enhancing skills which give it comparable PVP damage output to DPS classes, while having FAR more survivability and versatility.

 

My Merc BH does double the damage/kills to any DPS spec or Tank spec assassin (in BM gear), without even trying too hard to achieve that.

 

Lethal killing machines assassins are not. Deception spec needs serious re-works to make it even 40% as effective as a concealment OP, who do the whole stealth+melee job MUCH quicker and easier, and with a cunning laugh

[Philelectric]

This.

 

OP is a terribad.

 

Tank assassins need moderate*** nerfs:

DPS assasin need a buff

 

1- Force shroud removed (deflection is closer to the defensive cooldown operatives get)

2- Dark charge gives 50% damage penalty / 100% threat bonus, so they can still tank in PVE

3- Force pull removed (operatives have 0 gap closers, why should assassins have 2)

 

1-Assassin have tank build. Operative dont

2-This cooldown doesnt do a shizz so idc at all, I pop it for the lucky 1 proc I got from 8 player bashing me in huttball (I use tank gear in huttball)

3-Assassin have tank build. Operative dont

 

They should buff the jugg/guardians defense skills in tank build

 

Aslo, you know that when your class have issue or is ''underpowered'' you could ask for a buff or the addition of some habileties and not ask for a nerf on the other classes...

Edited April 1, 2012 by Philelectric

[HyperThomas]

Burst damage from stealth is the Operative's CLASS ROLE and it's sustained damage is a JOKE compared to Assasin DPS specs and on par with the tank spec outside of stealth.

 

 

 

What a load of crap.

 

50% dodge over the course of 12sec is potentially a LOT of damage.

 

A sub-2k bubble on a 45sec cooldown is NOTHING. Post this on the Operative forum and people will be rolling on the floor laughing at you.

 

 

 

A whole 10%?

 

Whoop-de-doo.

 

 

 

Because it's a pathetically weak heal sub-2k that isn't viable in PVP because you have to sit still and cast over 2.5 seconds. Even if your opponent doesn't interrupt it, the heal will be eaten up in his next crit.

 

What part of this can you possibly not understand?

 

Meanwhile, Assassins have multiple self-heal effects (depending on spec) that instantly proc.

 

LOL!

 

 

 

Because the Assassin tank spec can put out as much DPS as dedicated DPS specs (while retaining the survivability and versatility of the tank spec) which is the WHOLE POINT and the main reason that Assassins are overpowered in PVP.

 

LOL!

 

1st, You once again continue to prove how your reading skills are lacking, we are talking about the burst specs of shadow. Not the sustained tank spec. Learn to read.

2nd, 50% over 12 seconds is not potentially a lot of damage reduction, especially when facing a sustained dps class like a marauder. It is far better than a guaranteed 3k bubble. Do not even try to lie about how much that bubble absorbs, it varies and you cannot know it absorbs under 2k damage. Say the 50% dodge reduces damage by 4k (if lucky) a bubble has potential for X (possibly 2k damage) because it is on a 45 second cooldown (60%ish faster cooldown) in 2 mins a shadow can protect 4k damage, in 2 mins a op can fit two of those bubbles in = 4k+ damage. This is also based on your under calculated predictions of what the bubble can absorb. Seems balanced to me.

3rd, 10% is more survivability in my mind, it adds up.

4th, 2k or not, a well played op would cloak run behind something and heal up, assassin DPS spec cannot do this, once again you are getting the specs mixed up. Learn to read.

5th, tank spec does sustained dps, with as much defense as a guardian, a vanguard and a marauder (if not less) I agree all these specs should be nerfed slightly, but what you don't understand is the burst spec of shadow really needs a buff to be brought up to operative level. So stop posting and learn to read.

[Squatdog_nz]

1st, You once again continue to prove how your reading skills are lacking, we are talking about the burst specs of shadow. Not the sustained tank spec. Learn to read.

 

Operative has better burst from stealth because that's it's CLASS ROLE

 

Assassins have FAR better sustained DPS (especially once their opponent gets down to 30% health) and even the tank spec is on par with Operative DPS out of stealth.

 

2nd, 50% over 12 seconds is not potentially a lot of damage reduction, especially when facing a sustained dps class like a marauder. It is far better than a guaranteed 3k bubble.

 

Oh boy.

 

The Operative's bubble is NOWHERE NEAR 3k and a single Dodge for an Assassin over the course of the 12seconds can be enough to exceed it's effect. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

4th, 2k or not, a well played op would cloak run behind something and heal up, assassin DPS spec cannot do this, once again you are getting the specs mixed up. Learn to read.

 

LOL@this...

 

An Assassin can ALSO cloak up and then use Seethe to regain health once they're out of combat, not to mention their insta-proccing self-heal effects. Did you really think Operatives sit in a corner and use up their entire energy pool chain-casting heals, instead of using Recuperate?

 

Once again, it's a sub-2k heal with a 2.5sec cast time and simply isn't viable in combat under most circumstances.

 

3rd, 10% is more survivability in my mind, it adds up.

 

Except Assassins have a 30% armour bonus from Insulation, so the difference isn't even 10%.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Squatdog_nz

[Eggsalicious]

There is a reason that people are so upset about the assassin class not receiving any nerfs. Posts like this will just make people even more upset.

 

He's talking about deception/infil you dolt, not hybrid or tanking which currently is FoTM.

 

~sig

[Cygann]

None of the tank classes should be able to retain high DPS while in tanking stance. There are many ways to get this done without nerfing the class. Class can simply change in a way to have viable PVP protector or viable PVP DPS, as opposed to having it all in one like now.

 

Same as healers can't have their great heals and retain high DPS, how would sin/shaddow players react if they face a healer that do exact same DPS they do while speced in their healing tree just because they took DPS gear set instead of healing one? I bet every single one will cry a river on here.

 

Having both is wrong, and anyone who actually want to play a good, balanced game would look forward to any mechanic that is not just nerf, but a well thought change needed to address this issue.

 

However, most people want to have it all and are afraid of balance and fair mechanic, so they consider repairing this mistake to have tank/dps or heal/dps as a nerf, while in fact it is just righting the wrong that was made from the get go.

[Razot]

I play a Sin, a Mara and a Jugg.

 

The Sin is not perfect but is still very good the only problem i see is that Bioware cannot give players a buff or skill points in brain power..

[HyperThomas]

Operative has better burst from stealth because that's it's CLASS ROLE

 

Assassins have FAR better sustained DPS (especially once their opponent gets down to 30% health) and even the tank spec is on par with Operative DPS out of stealth.

 

 

 

Oh boy.

 

The Operative's bubble is NOWHERE NEAR 3k and a single Dodge for an Assassin over the course of the 12seconds can be enough to exceed it's effect. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

 

LOL@this...

 

An Assassin can ALSO cloak up and then use Seethe to regain health once they're out of combat, not to mention their insta-proccing self-heal effects. Did you really think Operatives sit in a corner and use up their entire energy pool chain-casting heals, instead of using Recuperate?

 

Once again, it's a sub-2k heal with a 2.5sec cast time and simply isn't viable in combat under most circumstances.

 

 

 

Except Assassins have a 30% armour bonus from Insulation, so the difference isn't even 10%.

 

1) Once again your reading skills are proven to be awful. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INFILTRATION SHADOW HERE, THE BURST SPEC. OPERATIVES HAVE BETTER BURST THAN THE BURST FROM INFILTRATION. BURST IS INFILTRATIONS ROLE.

 

2) Unless you can prove the bubble absorbs nowhere near 3k damage then you have no idea what you are talking about. Cooldown is still way faster, I like how you are avoiding this point.

 

3) Operatives can heal in combat, shadows cannot, ALSO INFILTRATION SHADOW DOES NOT HAVE INSTANT PROCCING HEALS, LEARN TO READ, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INFILTRATION SHADOWS. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

The operative heal is viable in combat situations, whenever I face a dps burst operative, I get them down to 3kish, they stun me and can heal like 5k+ health in that period. They can also then cloak run around an object to heal up, WHILE STILL IN COMBAT. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT OPERATIVE. Shadow infiltration can only heal out of combat, cloak rarely breaks combat, especially with dots/other duration effects.

 

4) 30% armor bonus hahahah, this by far is the most ridiculous thing you have said so far. It is 30% armor rating bonus, which is like 2% extra reduction? Lol, so funny.

 

5) My other points too good to retort? HAH! As expected.

 

TRY AGAIN

And for the last time, please try to read and learn what you are talking about.

INFILTRATION IS DIFFERENT FROM THE TANK TREE!

 

I am done talking to ignorant people that don't even bother to research what they are talking about before posting.

 

THANKS BYE!

Edited April 1, 2012 by HyperThomas

[namelless]

Just wanted to point out that the bubble definitely isn't close to 3k, it's around 1-1.5k. A single crit can remove it, i should know, i've been crit out of stealth by the unremovable BH Detonator that crits for about 2.2k. It also has a 45 second cd. Edited April 1, 2012 by namelless

[goz_-]

1) Once again your reading skills are proven to be awful. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INFILTRATION SHADOW HERE, THE BURST SPEC. OPERATIVES HAVE BETTER BURST THAN THE BURST FROM INFILTRATION. BURST IS INFILTRATIONS ROLE.

 

2) Unless you can prove the bubble absorbs nowhere near 3k damage then you have no idea what you are talking about. Cooldown is still way faster, I like how you are avoiding this point.

 

3) Operatives can heal in combat, shadows cannot, ALSO INFILTRATION SHADOW DOES NOT HAVE INSTANT PROCCING HEALS, LEARN TO READ, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT INFILTRATION SHADOWS. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

The operative heal is viable in combat situations, whenever I face a dps burst operative, I get them down to 3kish, they stun me and can heal like 5k+ health in that period. They can also then cloak run around an object to heal up, WHILE STILL IN COMBAT. YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT OPERATIVE. Shadow infiltration can only heal out of combat, cloak rarely breaks combat, especially with dots/other duration effects.

 

4) 30% armor bonus hahahah, this by far is the most ridiculous thing you have said so far. It is 30% armor rating bonus, which is like 2% extra reduction? Lol, so funny.

 

5) My other points too good to retort? HAH! As expected.

 

TRY AGAIN

And for the last time, please try to read and learn what you are talking about.

INFILTRATION IS DIFFERENT FROM THE TANK TREE!

 

I am done talking to ignorant people that don't even bother to research what they are talking about before posting.

 

THANKS BYE!

 

Sorry but Shadows can burst for 12k-14k damage within a second on a geared sage/sorc, that should be the highest burstdamage at the moment though I didn't see any other class doing this. And yes I didn't even tried to read the rest of your post because you already made clear that you suck badly.

 

Plus, I did my research though I have both classes >60 and I can actual play them.I can also tell you that the singletarget damage of an operative/scoundrel isn't even nearly compareable to the crazy stuff that a DPS-Shadow can pull off.

 

But I make it more clearly for you.

 

Inf-Shadows/Dec-Sins have:

 

- better burst(+probably better overall dps after the next patch too)

- better defense cds

- better group utility

- better utility overall

 

The only advantage a op/scoundrel has, is that the stun only needs 45s cd/30s cd specced.

 

If you watch it from a 1v1 perspective you can count in the heal as well but in exchange shadows/sins have still taunts for group pvp which is actual a better tool as well.

[HyperThomas]

Just wanted to point out that the bubble definitely isn't close to 3k, it's around 1-1.5k. A single crit can remove it, i should know, i've been crit out of stealth by the unremovable BH Detonator that crits for about 2.2k. It also has a 45 second cd.

 

The damage it absorbs doesn't matter (it varies anyway, + no concrete evidence), the fact that the defensive CDs are much, much shorter than a Shadow infiltration, is enough to prove my point. This poster from the start has been claiming that shadows defensive abilities are far superior to an op. Shadows may be slightly better (arguable), however both the OP CDs are 50% shorter, ontop of that fact, they have 10% more damage reduction than a shadow, and in combat healing, and better stuns, which can be used in a defensive way.

I honestly do not care what he thinks. He doesn't even have a clue what spec we are talking about, and he is posting incorrect information about the shadow, showing his lack of experience, and in turn showing that is argument is void.

 

I honestly think Ops could use a slight utility buff, maybe a gap closer of some sorts, but to claim shadow infiltration has better defense than an op, is ridiculous, this person clearly does not even research before he posts.

Edited April 1, 2012 by HyperThomas

[HyperThomas]

Sorry but Shadows can burst for 12k-14k damage within a second on a geared sage/sorc, that should be the highest burstdamage at the moment though I didn't see any other class doing this. And yes I didn't even tried to read the rest of your post because you already made clear that you suck badly.

 

Plus, I did my research though I have both classes >60 and I can actual play them.I can also tell you that the singletarget damage of an operative/scoundrel isn't even nearly compareable to the crazy stuff that a DPS-Shadow can pull off.

 

But I make it more clearly for you.

 

Inf-Shadows/Dec-Sins have:

 

- better burst(+probably better overall dps after the next patch too)

- better defense cds

- better group utility

- better utility overall

 

The only advantage a op/scoundrel has, is that the stun only needs 45s cd/30s cd specced.

 

If you watch it from a 1v1 perspective you can count in the heal as well but in exchange shadows/sins have still taunts for group pvp which is actual a better tool as well.

 

1) They do not have better burst. Do not lie.

2) Defensive CDs are not better. (read above post)

3) Yes shadow has the utility to make up for where the OP is better.

4) Try reading my full post, and what I am retorting to before posting.

5) taunts can be removed from the infiltration spec, no-one even uses them.

 

Anything else you would like me to go through? I agree ops could use a utility buff, i disagree that shadows can do better burst, simply isn't true.

 

Clearly no research done if you say 12-14k damage in a second LOL!

Edited April 1, 2012 by HyperThomas

[goz_-]

1) They do not have better burst. Do not lie.

2) Defensive CDs are not better. (read above post)

3) Yes shadow has the utility to make up for where the OP is better.

4) Try reading my full post, and what I am retorting to before posting.

5) taunts can be removed from the infiltration spec, no-one even uses them.

 

Anything else you would like me to go through? I agree ops could use a utility buff, i disagree that shadows can do better burst, simply isn't true.

 

There you go. No one should ever talk to you anymore. Saying that a 30% damagedebuff is useless proves that you have no idea of pvp and no idea of your class. Please go ahead and kill yourself now. Talking to people like you is a waste of time anyway.

 

PS: Take everyone with you who believes you or says the same things.

 

Have a nice day

Edited April 1, 2012 by goz_-

[unclekaula]

Uhhhhhhh...what???

 

Unlike Assassins, Juggernauts can't tank spec and still be considered 'DPS'.

 

We cant go immortal and dps well, but we can go rage with soresu (def form) and still smash for 6k.

Edited April 1, 2012 by unclekaula

[HyperThomas]

I am done here,

 

I disagreed with the original poster that sin needs a buff like he says. Got **** for that.

I have said operatives could do with a utility buff. No-one acknowledges.

I have proven operative if played right has far better defense than a shadow. Got nothing but "that isn't true"

People don't even bother to read my full posts, and take things way out of context.

I ask for a shadow ability to be removed. Got **** for that.

 

"There you go. No one should ever talk to you anymore. Saying that a 30% damagedebuff is useless proves that you have no idea of pvp and no idea of you class. Please go ahead and kill yourself now. PS: Take everyone with you who believes you or says the same things. Have a nice day "

 

Was simply saying here that this ability is hardly used by any burst shadow, mainly because they are too focused on bursting or staying alive. Any other retorts or were my points all good? Stop with the childish comments too please.

 

Furthermore, I was defending op from being nerfed for the second second time.

You people need to know who is on your side, and who is not, and stop criticizing personal opinion.

 

A lot of hurt operatives in this thread taking it out on people that in the past have defended the class.

 

MY POINT: I said shadow needs no buff, some guy takes it out of context, starts talking rubbish about the shadow infiltration class (making up crap), I defend it and prove him wrong. I also defend operative, suggesting improvements to bring the utility up to shadow standards, no-one acknowledges the gesture.

Seems to me all you ops want to do is trash talk someone trying to help your class on the forums.

You should feel bad.

 

I am done defending, thanks for all of your childish insults, and lack of reading skills. Makes me know I am so much better than you.

Edited April 1, 2012 by HyperThomas

[goz_-]

MY POINT: I said shadow needs no buff, some guy takes it out of context, starts talking rubbish about the shadow infiltration class (making up crap), I defend it and prove him wrong. I also defend operative, suggesting improvements to bring the utility up to shadow standards, no-one acknowledges the gesture.

Seems to me all you ops want to do is trash talk someone trying to help your class on the forums..

 

 

I personally think our KC (tank tree) tree needs a slight nerf, and the DPS trees need a great survivability buff.

Everything else with the class seems perfectly balanced.

 

About that op/scoundrel stuff you mighty defender of our class:

 

Lol no

I have played MMOs for 8 years and Operative/Scoundrel by far is the most OP piece of **** I have ever seen. The burst damage/stealth with the class is fine, don't get me wrong, it is just the CC, CC breakers and Healing that goes with the class that makes it totally flawed.

 

I am going to play this class now...

loljks

This class is able to get 300k damage medal as well as 5k heal in one hit medal...

This class can hit for 5k in one hit, against level 50s, yet is still able to cloak away and heal up.

This class can 3 or 4 shot basically any class. If they catch them vulnerable (walking around)

 

All of the above is true, yet people are still saying there is no need to nerf it?

Just... wow.

 

This isn't exactly about the topic and I'm sorry about that but people like you on the forums who lie and talk nonsense all the time have to shut the **** up already. Please do us all that favor. And yes I feel bad because I haven't stopped you earlier.

[HyperThomas]

1st/2nd quote, I said i disagreed with the OP about their recommended buffs, never said that I didn't want shadow infiltration survivability to be buffed, because currently it is worst ingame. You took those two quotes way out of context, Q1: I was saying shadow needs no buff, we were talking about the KC tree, if you read, and as clearly stated in Q2 I think the shadow infiltration survivability needs a buff.

 

3rd quote was before the first nerf, I have always said I agreed with the first nerf, I defended the class when it was nerfed the second time.

4th quote was before the first nerf too.

Don't tell me you don't think the first nerf was justified, sir.

Look around for the quotes about disagreeing with the second nerf to your class.

And once again you have seemed to look over the fact that I said operative needs a utility buff.

 

Don't think so highly of yourself "I am sorry I didn't stop you earlier" HAH fail.

 

Try again.

[HyperThomas]

I am done defending both inf shadows and operatives, you take things WAY out of context, do not bother to research what exactly I have posted about, and try to criticize me for helping.