tips for beating a sin/shadow tank (watchman)

[Brytag]

this is probably my hardest match up. i think part of the reason is i really dont know the class and their CDs, abilities etc.

 

could anyone who has success against them gimme a few pointers? i know when they turn white they cant be cced? gold/purple bubble is sorta like saber ward?

 

a few just seem to have a lot of health (like 20k) and their dps is pretty good considering. im full BM with around 17k health. i susualyl start the fight with rebuke and leap > OS > cauterize > zealous > merc and then proceed from there.

 

thanks in advance for any help.

[Ainianu]

One thing you need to stop is their lightning, it may seem similar to a sorcs lolspam but it is not. As soon as they start to do it, force stasis, awe or force camo (it cannot be inturrupted with kick if they have this spec)

 

It can do a nasty bit of damage and heals them back for a % of their hp i think, so whilst it cannot be inturrupted stunning them with force stasis or awe will stop it, as would force camo to cancel the ability. (think of this as something like a watchman using zen)

 

Further they have a force cloak thing that stops force damage (im pretty sure watchman dots fall under this) so focus more on your weapon damage, merciless slash, slashes and even master strike.

 

I will admit that i have not played watchman extensively enough to come accross 1v1 situations with these guys whilst under the spec, but in combat spec the above holds true (roughly... the abilities i listed are obviously what i would use under watchman) and the battle is made a lot easier via precision, but even in watchman you got a lot of weapon damage available and it may be worth switching to shii-cho form for zen?

[Derian]

One thing you need to stop is their lightning, it may seem similar to a sorcs lolspam but it is not. As soon as they start to do it, force stasis, awe or force camo (it cannot be inturrupted with kick if they have this spec)

 

It can do a nasty bit of damage and heals them back for a % of their hp i think, so whilst it cannot be inturrupted stunning them with force stasis or awe will stop it, as would force camo to cancel the ability. (think of this as something like a watchman using zen)

 

Further they have a force cloak thing that stops force damage (im pretty sure watchman dots fall under this) so focus more on your weapon damage, merciless slash, slashes and even master strike.

 

I will admit that i have not played watchman extensively enough to come accross 1v1 situations with these guys whilst under the spec, but in combat spec the above holds true (roughly... the abilities i listed are obviously what i would use under watchman) and the battle is made a lot easier via precision, but even in watchman you got a lot of weapon damage available and it may be worth switching to shii-cho form for zen?

 

The bolded is bad advice. You need to get your burns up ASAP because they have high defense and white damage mitigation. Yes they have force shroud but it's only like 5 or 6 seconds just don't drop dots while it's active. however, the burns are extremely important because yo will not hit them very often and when you do it will be weak.

 

However, you still apply burns on miss.

[Valastia]

Force Shroud will remove your burns that are currently on them, but it has like a 45s CD, so it's not really that big a deal. And most won't even use it.

 

The big thing, like the first guy said, is to find a way to circumvent their lightning. It heals them for around 12% of their health, plus will do about 3500 damage to you if it runs its course. Camo/Stasis/Awe and you'll give them a headache. They will also probably keep Wither up on you which lowers your damage dealt by 5%, so be sure to use any adrenals/relics you have that can give you temporary compensation.

 

However, if you run into a sin named Valgil, ignore all this advice and take your beating like a man

[Xerain]

most the time you can bait them into a shroud by dropping cauterize/rupture on them.

 

Camo/awe/stasis the lightning

 

Obfuscate them. Their hard hitting ability revolves around melee damage to proc 100% crit chance of the ability.

 

Don't stun break their knock down. If you get low and pop guarded and they CC stun break that.

[RockysRevenge]

Friendly shadow tank here.

 

Actually, most good shadows use resilience (force shroud) to negate burst. It removes dots, but it negates heavy damage too. I pop it as soon as I see a sniper reticle on me or when a marauder leaps to me. We also have force potency, which makes our pebble throw (force lightning) tick for between 1k-2k a hit. It's imparitive that you stop this, because it heals us as well.

 

While deflection (weak saber ward) is ok, it hardly makes us untouchable. Once our defensive CDs are done, we're sitting ducks because we don't have much burst, especially in tank gear, although we'll have over 20k health. In DPS gear we'll have right around18k, but hit a lot harder.

 

Sents/maras are some of my toughest fights as well, so don't get discouraged. Generally it depends who gets the jump on who, and where their buddies are.

[Cygann]

I know couple of shadows/sins on my server you can only beat in duel when all their CD's are ready only if you get crit on all your attacks, while they get no crits at all.

 

Other then that your best second tactic would be to have insider at their house that will unplug their keyboard in middle of the fight .

 

Because they are smart enough to counter our force camo with their longer hide, smart enough to use their 5 sec invul to force attacks to prevent any interrupt in their burst by awe of stasis (kick already don't work at that point). So with that right there they removed watchman strong side - frequent interrupts. Smart will also speed away in much hated dodge bubble (so your leap mostly miss and do not immobilize) when they see you got bubble up and simply kite. And final nail to our might is that pacify do not stop their channeled high damage, nor does moving away if you already been in 10m range when casting started.

 

Good shadow got all the tools he needs to counter watchman (or sentinel in general if you like), and some of them know how (those that actually do duels and have learned from it).

Beating such player is near mission impossible even tho still possible with some luck or if they mess up as everyone makes some mistake sooner or later.

 

If you run across one like that, simply take the beating like a man and move on.

 

In group situation with heals flying around things turn 180 quite fast because we get healed to full HP every 45 sec in camo and to full HP in guarded by the force in between. In that situation, sentinels come on top of the food chain easy.

 

So just focus on your job in shutting down enemy healers and kill sins after that if you like. But in duels, best of them will beat you 19/20 fights if they are good on their class.

 

Bad to average ones you can beat if you're good on your sent, but so can anyone else then that is good on their class.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Cygann

[Asphen]

There was an extra bad Sentinel player on these forums that talked like a boss on all things PvP, but he was extra bad in warzones.

 

He broke down and made a Shadow, and now he is putting up 'instruction vids' on how to PvP.

 

 

- When he played a Sentinel, he got destroyed

- Class change to Shadow, now he's an all-star (in his own mind)

 

 

If I see him post again, I'll link the dude's Youtube channel. He is the Case Study prime example on how a terribad player can't play the Sentinel class, but does well on a Shadow/Assassin.

[Xerain]

There was an extra bad Sentinel player on these forums that talked like a boss on all things PvP, but he was extra bad in warzones.

 

He broke down and made a Shadow, and now he is putting up 'instruction vids' on how to PvP.

 

 

- When he played a Sentinel, he got destroyed

- Class change to Shadow, now he's an all-star (in his own mind)

 

 

If I see him post again, I'll link the dude's Youtube channel. He is the Case Study prime example on how a terribad player can't play the Sentinel class, but does well on a Shadow/Assassin.

 

lol name and server?

 

 

and yeah assassin is much easier to play than mara/sent.

[muradi]

Watch my videos. Best advice for you.

[Brytag]

There was an extra bad Sentinel player on these forums that talked like a boss on all things PvP, but he was extra bad in warzones.

 

He broke down and made a Shadow, and now he is putting up 'instruction vids' on how to PvP.

 

 

- When he played a Sentinel, he got destroyed

- Class change to Shadow, now he's an all-star (in his own mind)

 

 

If I see him post again, I'll link the dude's Youtube channel. He is the Case Study prime example on how a terribad player can't play the Sentinel class, but does well on a Shadow/Assassin.

 

thanks for all the advice guys. i would especially love to see this link lol. i was thinking of trying a shadow but only as a way to learn the class and its weaknesses. i find i play better against a class ive played cuz i know what the class can do.

[bionamaster]

I know couple of shadows/sins on my server you can only beat in duel when all their CD's are ready only if you get crit on all your attacks, while they get no crits at all.

 

Other then that your best second tactic would be to have insider at their house that will unplug their keyboard in middle of the fight .

 

Because they are smart enough to counter our force camo with their longer hide, smart enough to use their 5 sec invul to force attacks to prevent any interrupt in their burst by awe of stasis (kick already don't work at that point). So with that right there they removed watchman strong side - frequent interrupts. Smart will also speed away in much hated dodge bubble (so your leap mostly miss and do not immobilize) when they see you got bubble up and simply kite. And final nail to our might is that pacify do not stop their channeled high damage, nor does moving away if you already been in 10m range when casting started.

 

Good shadow got all the tools he needs to counter watchman (or sentinel in general if you like), and some of them know how (those that actually do duels and have learned from it).

Beating such player is near mission impossible even tho still possible with some luck or if they mess up as everyone makes some mistake sooner or later.

 

If you run across one like that, simply take the beating like a man and move on.

 

In group situation with heals flying around things turn 180 quite fast because we get healed to full HP every 45 sec in camo and to full HP in guarded by the force in between. In that situation, sentinels come on top of the food chain easy.

 

So just focus on your job in shutting down enemy healers and kill sins after that if you like. But in duels, best of them will beat you 19/20 fights if they are good on their class.

 

Bad to average ones you can beat if you're good on your sent, but so can anyone else then that is good on their class.

 

Sounds like someone's the class in question. There are always ways for any class to beat any class, if there weren't, the game would actually be unbalanced.

[Enexemander]

I know couple of shadows/sins on my server you can only beat in duel when all their CD's are ready only if you get crit on all your attacks, while they get no crits at all.

 

Other then that your best second tactic would be to have insider at their house that will unplug their keyboard in middle of the fight .

 

Because they are smart enough to counter our force camo with their longer hide, smart enough to use their 5 sec invul to force attacks to prevent any interrupt in their burst by awe of stasis (kick already don't work at that point). So with that right there they removed watchman strong side - frequent interrupts. Smart will also speed away in much hated dodge bubble (so your leap mostly miss and do not immobilize) when they see you got bubble up and simply kite. And final nail to our might is that pacify do not stop their channeled high damage, nor does moving away if you already been in 10m range when casting started.

 

Good shadow got all the tools he needs to counter watchman (or sentinel in general if you like), and some of them know how (those that actually do duels and have learned from it).

Beating such player is near mission impossible even tho still possible with some luck or if they mess up as everyone makes some mistake sooner or later.

 

If you run across one like that, simply take the beating like a man and move on.

 

In group situation with heals flying around things turn 180 quite fast because we get healed to full HP every 45 sec in camo and to full HP in guarded by the force in between. In that situation, sentinels come on top of the food chain easy.

 

So just focus on your job in shutting down enemy healers and kill sins after that if you like. But in duels, best of them will beat you 19/20 fights if they are good on their class.

 

Bad to average ones you can beat if you're good on your sent, but so can anyone else then that is good on their class.

 

Well, the trump card is their 5 sec invulnerability. If they're saving it for channeling lightning, then congratulations! You just won. That 5 sec invulnerability has a 45 second cooldown. If they blow it and start channeling, that's when you camo. Now they've wasted their 3 stacks of harnessed darkness AND you don't have to attack them until it wears off.

 

Build your bleeds back up and save your charge. You will be winning on damage (especially if they got cocky and blew cooldowns on their first lightning). Your bleeds ignore armor, which is the advantage they have in most 1v1 fights. Anyway, if they force speed away, they'll be doing that to channel their lightning storm. That's when you charge them. You don't have to root them, you just have to be close enough to hit them with awe/stasis.

 

Their force speed is on a 20 second cooldown. The fight should be over before it's up again.

 

If they do get really far away from you and then blow their cooldown to make lightning hit from 30 yards away, use LOS to your advantage.

 

Sentinels have all the tools to beat Darkness Assassins if you play smart. Their main trick is getting life back with lightning. If you deny them that, they will fall over easily.

 

That is unless of course they are actually wearing tank gear. In that case, you will not kill them. But they should not be able to kill you either. Just walk away from them.

[Bishidoblade]

I don't have much problem with shadow/assassins - my trick is trying to force them to blow CD's early and avoiding as much damage as I can until they fall off. After their defensive CDs drop - spank time - they are squishy at that point like everyone else. If you cant wait to pop your defensive then pop all of your DPS ability's and go try hard on them. The best ones will force a GBTF, but when we do pop it + med pack + zen you will end up with plenty of health - (with them nerd raging)

 

Try and save your camo for lightning, and stasis AFTER you dot them up when they are closer to 30%. Stasis+ dots bring them below 20% execute range, and obviously dispatch.

 

You want to use rebuke almost immediately, though a non scrub will let it fall off. I try to hold off on rebuke a bit though and apply as much pressure as possible so they are more worried about surviving/reacting to the burst and don't notice/care about rebuke.

 

Also don't play their game, they can kite in circles and widdle you down if you let them. Dont fight in open area's where they have the advantage(legslash is helpful). Fight in area's where you can LOS them easily, possibly saving some CDs by LOSing rather then hitting ability's to deal with said incoming ability's.

 

Its important that you fight on your own terms if possible, keeping them on their heels and reacting to you, rather then them controlling the tempo of battle makes all the difference. Them being a stealth class makes this difficult sometimes, but you can reset easy enough.

 

Really, the only time i ever lose to one is if they catch me when i just blew a few CDs on someone else - at that point its up in the air, and depend on how skilled they are.

 

shadow/assassin is mashing like 3 buttons, it doesn't take much skill. they are thrashing to proc shock crits, shocking or chain lightning to use harness darkness ( 10% heal + no pushback/UN-interuptable + 75% lightining damage at 3 stacks. If you notice them poping recklessness prep for some spiky damage.

 

 

I specifically rolled an assassin alt to figure out how to counter them better - since people always were spouting off how they are our counter.

 

 

Anyways that's how I deal with them, and its been working pretty well for me.

[Eszi]

Never really had trouble with them, just use pacify, stasis on lightning (it heals them per tick) and spam melee attacks when they use that funny glowy shield that makes them immune to our dots.