WarSiren Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) as the title says good bye and good riddance. I'm glad I never got to know you! a snippet from the new PTR notes Sith Warrior (Forum / Skill Calculator / Abilities) General Force Charge now places a "root" visual effect on the affected target. Ravage damage has been increased by approximately 15%. Juggernaut Crash has been removed. Oh and the Ravage damage increase is pretty sexy too. Edited March 30, 2012 by WarSiren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar-Ell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) edit: nevermind. was reading the wrong notes, nothing to see here, move along. Edited March 30, 2012 by Dar-Ell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) edit: nevermind. was reading the wrong notes, nothing to see here, move along. I figured I'd let you figure that out rather than being a jerk. Edited March 30, 2012 by WarSiren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 *ahem* O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Seriously, they actually paid attention to us on this one. Looks like we won this round, for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaipyr Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thanks god. Maybe they're not intentionally trying to make Juggs/Guards even more the bottom run of the can-tank classes out there... MAYBE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastus Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thank the maker...for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Wait...what?? you mean I dont have to rage out anymore? you mean .... serious? dont mess with me yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rymah Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Can't see the problem with this change, other than incessant pvp whining causing the removal of an extremely useful pve ability...hopefully they restore crash to the immortal tree as an purchased ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishpierre Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Can someone refresh me what Crash was? I haven't played my Immortal Jugg in quite some times, been leveling alts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJMazz Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA... (insert infinite "A"s here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyv Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Can someone refresh me what Crash was? I haven't played my Immortal Jugg in quite some times, been leveling alts. On Leap or Charge it added a 2 second stun. Great for pve but too foul for PVP (capping resolve bars very easily) Glad its gone.. hope it is avail for the very few that enjoyed it as a talent option... if not I dont think many will miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Can't see the problem with this change, other than incessant pvp whining causing the removal of an extremely useful pve ability...hopefully they restore crash to the immortal tree as an purchased ability. It broke the class for PvP and only moderately useful in PvE, only bad Immortal Juggs took crash in the first place. Also even in PvE it was a slight nerf to Vengeance, see we have this talent called unstoppable that makes us immune to CC of 4 seconds considering a good chunk of mobs have some form of CC on charge it broke that Talent in PVE as well. It's removal is a good thing. Crash being removed doesn't affect PvE at all, and it stops the class from being broken in PvP - That's balance, remember not everyone likes only PvE (yes that goes for PvP too.) but if a change breaks a class in one part of the game it's a bad change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesrach Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well Done BW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldserpent Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 It broke the class for PvP and only moderately useful in PvE, only bad Immortal Juggs took crash in the first place. Also even in PvE it was a slight nerf to Vengeance, see we have this talent called unstoppable that makes us immune to CC of 4 seconds considering a good chunk of mobs have some form of CC on charge it broke that Talent in PVE as well. It's removal is a good thing. Crash being removed doesn't affect PvE at all, and it stops the class from being broken in PvP - That's balance, remember not everyone likes only PvE (yes that goes for PvP too.) but if a change breaks a class in one part of the game it's a bad change. I hope that was an opinion there with the bold italicized statement. An additional stun was great for PvE in locking down that additional mob, or that hard hitting mob. Saying only "bad Immortal Juggs took crash in the first place," well, that depends on the player. Immortal isn't just a "defensive warrior" spec, but can also be a controller spec. I know that when I was Immortal spec'd, I took it, and it made leveling quite a bit easier. Maybe for Vengeance baseline Crash was a nerf with Unstoppable. For Rage and Immortal, they didn't have the security blanket of Unstoppable to work with. This is all PvE that I'm speaking about, of course, considering this is more of a PvE game than a PvP game. For PvP, I agree that filling resolve bars really fast is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar-Ell Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I figured I'd let you figure that out rather than being a jerk. I appreciate it. Was reading the official patch notes in the PTS section and they hadn't been updated yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightmist Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) This is all PvE that I'm speaking about, of course, considering this is more of a PvE game than a PvP game. Yet they are doing more and more to make that not the case. Which is good. It needs to be balanced between both to retain more gamers of both crowds. Crash was bad for Immortal Jugs from a min/max standpoint.. Of course Immortal Period was bad fro a min/max view point, and the Venge/Immortal Hybrid was a lot better. Edited April 1, 2012 by WarSiren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Yet they are doing more and more to make that not the case. Which is good. It needs to be balanced between both to retain more gamers of both crowds. Crash was bad for Immortal Jugs from a min/max standpoint.. Of course Immortal Period was bad fro a min/max view point, and the Venge/Immortal Hybrid was a lot better. that could probably be argued pending your overall viewpoint. i believe that you can't balance on the two equally...One will always win out. most Dev's tend to favor the PvP crowd, as they are the most worried about balance. PvE players Dont like the changes, but we will take a small hit in the grand scheme of things. mostly because winning is more important to a PvP player. I think that they could separate the two more clearly, but few dev's are willing to put that effort into it. LotRO did an amazing job of creating an isolated PvP game that was balanced, yet did not interfere with the PvE game. aside from that, onto the OP: Crash was mediocre at it's tier. It wasn't worth being that high in the tree (4 sec stun would have been). but putting it too low would make it take the place of a talent that a PvP player would possible want instead. they could tack a 2 sec stun onto one of the current existing Immortal talents, or give it its own point, and make it 4 seconds. Personally, I think a better option would be a talent to allow smash to stun silvers as well, put it high in the immortal tree. that IMO is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabulla Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 They should have just put it back in the Immortal tree instead of removing it for those who used it. Glad its not being forced on everyone now though sad to see it gone completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genocidalx Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Well, Crash and Forceclap are still in the patch notes here: http://www.swtor.com/test-center/patchnotes I've never read anywhere about it explicitly being removed from the 1.2 patch notes. Here are the snippets from the patch notes: with a 3/30 date: Jedi Knight Awe no longer costs Focus to activate. Dispatch can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%). Force Kick no longer costs Focus to activate. Master Strike can no longer be interrupted. Force Leap now places a "root" visual effect on the affected target. *UPDATED 3/29* Master Strike damage has been increased by approximately 15%. *UPDATED 3/29* Guardian Added Forceclap, a new passive ability granted at level 10 that causes Force Leap to stun the target for 2 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 12 seconds. Sith Warrior Disruption no longer costs Rage to activate. Intimidating Roar no longer costs Rage to activate. Ravage can no longer be interrupted. Vicious Throw can now be used on targets at or below 30% of maximum health (up from 20%). Force Charge now places a "root" visual effect on the affected target. *UPDATED 3/29* Ravage damage has been increased by approximately 15%. *UPDATED 3/29* Juggernaut Added Crash, a new passive ability granted at level 10 that causes Force Charge to stun the target for 2 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 12 seconds. The notes are stamped for 3/30/2012. Apparently those dreaded abilities remain, or BW can't keep their notes straight. I'm still confused. It appears that the "Root Effect" is a generic effect that applies to all Warriors/Knights' leaps in a general sense. But still, it goes on to add that Forceclap and Crash will remain for Guardians and Juggernauts specifically (suggesting that Sentinels and Marauders will NOT have the added stun on their leaps). So, where did the rumor begin that Forceclap/Crash were being removed? Where was it stated explicitly? Are the patch notes wrong or... what's going on? Could BioWare give us some explicit clarification? If Forceclap/Crash are staying, can we please have them removed? Edited April 3, 2012 by Genocidalx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Juggernaut Due to changes to the Juggernaut skill trees, Juggernauts have had their skill points refunded. Added Enraged Defense, a new ability that allows the Juggernaut to spend Rage to lower threat. While active, one point of Rage is spent each time damage is taken to heal the Juggernaut for a small amount. This ability is usable while stunned and is not limited by the global cooldown. Vengeance Deafening Defense is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree. It now increases the Juggernaut's damage reduction while Enraged Defense is active. Rampage now generates 2 points of Rage when it is triggered. Single Saber Mastery is no longer restricted to certain stances. Stagger is now located in Tier 1 of the Vengeance skill tree. Sundering Throw is now located in Tier 6 of the Vengeance skill tree. Immortal Battle Cry is now a 2-point skill that provides the same overall effect. Crushing Blow now generates 50% additional threat. Force Grip is now located in Tier 4 of the skill tree. Force Scream no longer consumes stacks of Revenge while the "Battle Cry" buff is active. Heavy Handed is now a 1-point skill with a slightly reduced overall effect. Quake is now a 3-point skill that provides the same overall effect. Shield Specialization is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree. Sonic Barrier is now located in Tier 4 of the skill tree. Thrown Gauntlet no longer reduces the cooldown of Threatening Scream and is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree. Rage (Juggernaut) Decimate is now located in Tier 1 of the Rage skill tree. It increases the damage dealt by Smash and Sweeping Slash and reduces the cooldown of Smash. Dominate is now a 3-point skill with the same overall effect. The effect now lasts 20 seconds (up from 15). Force Alacrity has been replaced by Overpower, which allows Vicious Slash critical hits to have a chance to refund 2 points of Rage while the Juggernaut is in Shii-Cho Form. Force Crush's cooldown has been reduced to 18 seconds. Its overall effect is unchanged. Gravity now specifically affects Chilling Scream and Force Crush. Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second. Ravager now increases the damage of Ravage instead of affecting Force Choke. Relentless Fury has been replaced by Empowering Rage. It requires 2 points in Shockwave and causes Enrage to immediately grant 2 stacks of Shockwave per point. Shockwave's buff effects now last 20 seconds (up from 15). Through Passion, a new 2-point skill located in Tier 6, has been added. It reduces the initial activation cost of Enraged Defense by 1 Rage per point. Unbreakable Rage has been removed from the game. Those are a copy and paste from the Jugg notes from - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363056 Notice Crash is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Well, Crash and Forceclap are still in the patch notes here: http://www.swtor.com/test-center/patchnotes I've never read anywhere about it explicitly being removed from the 1.2 patch notes. Here are the snippets from the patch notes: with a 3/30 date: The notes are stamped for 3/30/2012. Apparently those dreaded abilities remain, or BW can't keep their notes straight. I'm still confused. It appears that the "Root Effect" is a generic effect that applies to all Warriors/Knights' leaps in a general sense. But still, it goes on to add that Forceclap and Crash will remain for Guardians and Juggernauts specifically (suggesting that Sentinels and Marauders will NOT have the added stun on their leaps). So, where did the rumor begin that Forceclap/Crash were being removed? Where was it stated explicitly? Are the patch notes wrong or... what's going on? Could BioWare give us some explicit clarification? If Forceclap/Crash are staying, can we please have them removed? The patch notes have been updated and Crash is now no longer anywhere in them. Charge is basically the same as before (applies a root) only now there's a visual effect so people can tell they've been rooted by a charge. Previous notes (from 29th i believe) explicitly stated that Crash was removed. The updated notes no longer say that, because the original indicated of the Crash change was completely taken out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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