Love how people want to nerf Shadows now

[Remulan]

They want to nerf us because we have bigger glow sticks and we are very visible on the battle field.

 

Just tired of seeing the shadow/sin tanks have huge burst threads.. What burst? What makes it higher than any other DPS class/spec out there? Bring on 1.2 so we can parse a tank spec to shut these people up. The players behind the characters know it is true, but until we have real numbers then the sheepeople just follow the mindless masses and once one rumor starts everyone bandwagons on.

 

My Sniper can burst someone from 100% to 0 in like 5-6 seconds from 30-35m away. My powertech can melt people if they stay too close fairly quickly. My marauder melts people if they let me stick to them. Mercs can tracer you to death in a short period. Operatives can stunlock you to death in a few seconds. Sorcs can melt you from range and if you get close CC the crap of you.

 

Notice I didn't meantion Guardians/Juggs... yea. They need some loving. If you see a class NO ONE rages about then that is the class that needs help. There are threads about every single other class/spec in the game being op in certain situations.

 

Most people aren't complaining about assassin damage. It is all the utility and survivability they have along with their decent damage that makes them the number 1 class you will want on your rated warzone team. If an assassin has all his cd's up in huttball and has the ball, good luck stopping him from scoring. Or he can be stealthed in your endzone waiting for a pass. Stealth is amazing on both voidstar and civil war, swinging games when utilized correctly.

 

When rated warzones come out and full 8 man, coordinated teams are able to exploit the advantages of the class completely you are going to see a lot more threads about nerfing assassins. Don't act all surprised when it happens.

[Aaoogaa]

From my understanding people just want to nerf Tankasin in dps gear. Shadow really doesn't need a nerf when wearing the intended gear for the spec.

[AMKSED]

I have 35 buttons bound on my sin, and use every single one every warzone.

 

You do not have 35 special binds for your Assassin lol.

[Xienive]

SinTanks have crappy animations.

 

I know rite!

 

True

[Iboga]

That's because with Scrappers and Ops out of the way you are everything the masses hated about them and more... and now they realized it... enjoy it while it lasts, because more than likely yer next on the choppin' block. And don't expect a few little minor nerfs, because BW seems to like to "to the ground" nerf things...

[LordbishopX]

They want to nerf us because we have bigger glow sticks and we are very visible on the battle field.

 

Just tired of seeing the shadow/sin tanks have huge burst threads.. What burst? What makes it higher than any other DPS class/spec out there? Bring on 1.2 so we can parse a tank spec to shut these people up. The players behind the characters know it is true, but until we have real numbers then the sheepeople just follow the mindless masses and once one rumor starts everyone bandwagons on.

 

My Sniper can burst someone from 100% to 0 in like 5-6 seconds from 30-35m away. My powertech can melt people if they stay too close fairly quickly. My marauder melts people if they let me stick to them. Mercs can tracer you to death in a short period. Operatives can stunlock you to death in a few seconds. Sorcs can melt you from range and if you get close CC the crap of you.

 

Notice I didn't meantion Guardians/Juggs... yea. They need some loving. If you see a class NO ONE rages about then that is the class that needs help. There are threads about every single other class/spec in the game being op in certain situations.

 

NERF -> http://i.imgur.com/PfrWV.jpg LMAO not really just wanted to point that out....

[fungihoujo]

Obviously when you nerf everything else- it goes from being balanced to OP. It's hard to understand I know, but OPness in pvp is relative, probably because you're fighting other classes.

 

Shadows are extremely OP.

[Dee-Jay]

I have never seen one thread about how they are overpowered until 1.2 patch notes came out and pretty much changed every class except ours. unbelievable.

 

It's because whereas most classes have a few elements that are OP, Shadows as a whole are just too good.

 

They just don't cause the same "****" reaction like say....Juggernaut burst or Bounty Hunter survivability.

[Astarica]

Assassins are kind of like your strongest character in a fighting game. You're not so powerful that people should just give up when they see but you'd crazy to not pick one if you're playing seriously. However, the Assassin doesn't have any real flashy imbalances (probably due to the fact that it's played by a lot of people so it dilutes the talent pool). In particular people are surprisingly good at talking themselves into thinking that getting zapped for 6K by a Force Lightning is not burst because it happened over 2 GCDs instead of 1 even though they're still dead.

 

Now that all the flashy overpowered stuff is nerfed, people are starting to realize that getting zapped fo 6K in 2 GCD still kills you and that'd suck especially when you've no other overpowered stuff to fall back on.

[Varicite]

Assassins are kind of like your strongest character in a fighting game. You're not so powerful that people should just give up when they see but you'd crazy to not pick one if you're playing seriously. However, the Assassin doesn't have any real flashy imbalances (probably due to the fact that it's played by a lot of people so it dilutes the talent pool). In particular people are surprisingly good at talking themselves into thinking that getting zapped for 6K by a Force Lightning is not burst because it happened over 2 GCDs instead of 1 even though they're still dead.

 

Now that all the flashy overpowered stuff is nerfed, people are starting to realize that getting zapped fo 6K in 2 GCD still kills you and that'd suck especially when you've no other overpowered stuff to fall back on.

 

6k in 2 GCDs really isn't that much compared to most DPS classes, though. That's why I personally don't consider that as "burst".

 

Sure, it's bursty compared to my Sorc (who has arguably the worst burst in the game), but my Pyro PT isn't going to bat an eye if you tell him that you hit someone for 6k over 2 GCD's. I doubt even Deception Sins would consider that to be "bursty".

Edited March 29, 2012 by Varicite

[cashogy]

welcome to the revolving door of nerfs.

 

bioware claims to have metrics to back up their class balance decisions, but its pretty easy to see thats a bunch of baloney.

 

if enough people cry about it on the forums, its gonna get changed.

[Anbokr]

People are whining about tank shadows. The disgusting spec where you dps (with dps gear) in tank form that results in 400k+ damage, 100k protection, and tons of self healing. If you're a dps assassin/shadow that's dps specced or a standard tankassin, you'll probably go untouched. But guard, tank stance, and taunt are already very powerful; when you combine that with tons of dps--there's no arguing that that is not broken.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Seriously. Where is this "tons" of DPS people keep speaking of? I'm in full champ stalker gear and I have only broke the 100k mark in damage twice. Yes. Twice out of all the warzones I have done. If y'all call throwing AOE's around like candy and not killing anybody at all tons of DPS, then I'm guilty as charged.

[Astarica]

6k in 2 GCDs really isn't that much compared to most DPS classes, though. That's why I personally don't consider that as "burst".

 

Sure, it's bursty compared to my Sorc (who has arguably the worst burst in the game), but my Pyro PT isn't going to bat an eye if you tell him that you hit someone for 6k over 2 GCD's. I doubt even Deception Sins would consider that to be "bursty".

 

People have a greatly exaggerated perception of what burst DPS is. If you regularly hit 6K in 2 GCDs people would be dead in under 10 seconds if that was at all sustainable (6 GCDs = 9s = 18K damage at this rate). Unless you spend your whole time feasting on light armored targets, hitting 1K with a rotation move like Wither/Thrash or even Shock is a pretty good hit against a strong opponent. Actually, since all Assassin basically gets to go past your last 30% for free due to Assassinate, you'd only have to keep up '6K in 2 GCD' for about 4-5 GCDs, and the Assassinate will finish them if they didn't use a CD to escape it.

 

But then this is probably why people don't think Assassins are strong because they hypnotized themselves into thinking they've better 'burst DPS', even though if that burst DPS exists they'd be killing someone every 10 seconds and even the most overpowered class can't claim that kind of killing rate (you'd go through a 15 minute WZ with 90 kills, which is likely a statistical impossibility considering respawn timer).

[ShadowOfVey]

People have a greatly exaggerated perception of what burst DPS is. If you regularly hit 6K in 2 GCDs people would be dead in under 10 seconds if that was at all sustainable (6 GCDs = 9s = 18K damage at this rate). Unless you spend your whole time feasting on light armored targets, hitting 1K with a rotation move like Wither/Thrash or even Shock is a pretty good hit against a strong opponent. Actually, since all Assassin basically gets to go past your last 30% for free due to Assassinate, you'd only have to keep up '6K in 2 GCD' for about 4-5 GCDs, and the Assassinate will finish them if they didn't use a CD to escape it.

 

But then this is probably why people don't think Assassins are strong because they hypnotized themselves into thinking they've better 'burst DPS', even though if that burst DPS exists they'd be killing someone every 10 seconds and even the most overpowered class can't claim that kind of killing rate (you'd go through a 15 minute WZ with 90 kills, which is likely a statistical impossibility considering respawn timer).

 

Assassinate is not that strong, heh.

 

It's also white damage and gets parried/dodged and all that constantly. Believe me I don't just tap the assassinate button and start looking to the next target, it doesn't work that way.

 

I'm actually pretty excited when I can kill someone that's at 30% with it. About the only time that happens is if I crit (with good RNG) on a sorc...AND it doesn't get dodged. Them being a bit undergeared also helps. It's white damage and misses often.

 

The only reason I even use it is because it only costs 25 force.

[Varicite]

People have a greatly exaggerated perception of what burst DPS is. If you regularly hit 6K in 2 GCDs people would be dead in under 10 seconds if that was at all sustainable (6 GCDs = 9s = 18K damage at this rate). Unless you spend your whole time feasting on light armored targets, hitting 1K with a rotation move like Wither/Thrash or even Shock is a pretty good hit against a strong opponent. Actually, since all Assassin basically gets to go past your last 30% for free due to Assassinate, you'd only have to keep up '6K in 2 GCD' for about 4-5 GCDs, and the Assassinate will finish them if they didn't use a CD to escape it.

 

But then this is probably why people don't think Assassins are strong because they hypnotized themselves into thinking they've better 'burst DPS', even though if that burst DPS exists they'd be killing someone every 10 seconds and even the most overpowered class can't claim that kind of killing rate (you'd go through a 15 minute WZ with 90 kills, which is likely a statistical impossibility considering respawn timer).

 

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that all heavy DPS classes put out 3k damage every single GCD. Obviously that isn't the case. But some heavy DPS classes (like mine) can easily trump 6k in 2 GCD's, usually at will.

 

To use the notorious example of a full Pyro PT (I'm not full Pyro, I don't bring this kind of burst. But even in my spec w/out Thermal Det, I can easily trump 6k in 2 GCDs by replacing TD w/ Explosive Dart).

 

Thermal Detonator -> Incendiary Missile -> Rail Shot (TD explodes now) -> Rocket Punch.

 

The damage occurs w/in 2 GCDs (Rail Shot GCD + Rocket Punch GCD). It's actually ONE GCD if you wanna get technical, as RP's damage will be applied before its GCD.

 

TD will crit for 3.5k~

Rail Shot will crit for 4-5k~

CGC proc (from Rail Shot) crit for 1k~

Rocket Punch will crit for 3k~

 

2 GCDs = 12k~ damage.

 

These are all very possible numbers in Champion gear (using Relic/Adrenal/Explosive Fuel). Someone geared better than I am will most likely pull slightly higher crits, but not by much.

 

That's what I consider a "burst". Deception Sin can also put out this kind of pressure (as it's been explained in this thread a couple times), albeit w/ a bit more ramp-up time. I've seen some Operatives able to do this regularly as well.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Varicite

[Zunayson]

Huttball acid and fire changed to elemental damage.

 

Shadows now have 3 second immunity to not only most attacks, but also the hazards.

 

Oh yeah, and it removes all negative effects that can be removed. That too

 

that's OP tbh. Only the hazard part. Hazards should be the blueish turquoise environmental damage.

[Squidkidz]

Seriously. Where is this "tons" of DPS people keep speaking of? I'm in full champ stalker gear and I have only broke the 100k mark in damage twice. Yes. Twice out of all the warzones I have done. If y'all call throwing AOE's around like candy and not killing anybody at all tons of DPS, then I'm guilty as charged.

 

Must be doing something wrong? I can easily break 200k damage and get around 100k protection consistently if I'm not being lazy. Maybe switch up your gear/mods. Get rid of the accuracy and replace it with power/crit/surge.

[Asphen]

What do you mean 'Now?' I've wanted them rebalanced for a loooooonnnngg time.

 

 

 

This class has just been OP as all-get from the start, and it flew under the Radar for far too long. Ask any decent Shadow player and they'll confim the OPness of this class just flew under the radar for some reason.

 

 

+1 for Nerfing Shadows.

[Astarica]

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that all heavy DPS classes put out 3k damage every single GCD. Obviously that isn't the case. But some heavy DPS classes (like mine) can easily trump 6k in 2 GCD's, usually at will.

 

To use the notorious example of a full Pyro PT (I'm not full Pyro, I don't bring this kind of burst. But even in my spec w/out Thermal Det, I can easily trump 6k in 2 GCDs by replacing TD w/ Explosive Dart).

 

Thermal Detonator -> Incendiary Missile -> Rail Shot (TD explodes now) -> Rocket Punch.

 

The damage occurs w/in 2 GCDs (Rail Shot GCD + Rocket Punch GCD). It's actually ONE GCD if you wanna get technical, as RP's damage will be applied before its GCD.

 

TD will crit for 3.5k~

Rail Shot will crit for 4-5k~

CGC proc (from Rail Shot) crit for 1k~

Rocket Punch will crit for 3k~

 

2 GCDs = 12k~ damage.

 

These are all very possible numbers in Champion gear (using Relic/Adrenal/Explosive Fuel). Someone geared better than I am will most likely pull slightly higher crits, but not by much.

 

That's what I consider a "burst". Deception Sin can also put out this kind of pressure (as it's been explained in this thread a couple times), albeit w/ a bit more ramp-up time. I've seen some Operatives able to do this regularly as well.

 

But you used 4 GCDs to setup all the damage that occurs in those 2. That's like saying if I do Tracer Missile followed by a HSM, they'll impact at roughly the same time so that's 6K in one GCD if both crit. It's really 2 GCDs even though the impact happened during a single GCD, not to mention you need 2 more GCDs to just setup the Tracer stacks in the first place.

 

When you look at the total setup time, 6K in 2 GCD is very high, especially in the case of Force Lightning you don't need any fancy setup or luck. It's not as impressive as some of the absolutely best burst DPS scenario, but you can also use it way more often than these once in a blue moon streaks. Realistically you're looking at Darkness for 6-8K with 4 GCD setup time (Wither + Shock + FL) while using no special cooldowns, and this is a very high amount of reusable DPS. Again if you can regularly do say 12K DPS in even 4 GCD setup you'd be on pace for 90 kills in a match, and I've had games where we are basically killing the guys the moment they jump off the Voidstar shuttle and still came nowhere close to getting 90 kills.

 

Also, burst DPS only works on classes with no defenses against it. Marauders and Assassins, for example, would have no problem avoiding most burst DPS abilities with their own cooldowns. Now classes like Sages have no CD to counter burst DPS, but that's why I said it's not fair if you're only feasting on low armor targets with no way to avoid your burst DPS, given there are plenty of high armor targets that can negate burst DPS out there.

[Narfirill]

I'm convinced that i play the best AC and tree in the game... we are so perfect that everything is balanced around us and after 2 versions of the game we get only minor changes .(IA/MM) maybe you belong in the same category?

 

what i can understand is why the hell i don't see more of us?

 

only explanation is that either players or developers are id****.

[AMKSED]

I'm convinced that i play the best AC and tree in the game... we are so perfect that everything is balanced around us and after 2 versions of the game we get only minor changes .(IA/MM) maybe you belong in the same category?

 

what i can understand is why the hell i don't see more of us?

 

only explanation is that either players or developers are id****.

 

The only thing I see now are the hybrid build Shadows/Assassins.

[Neamhan]

If an assassin has all his cd's up in huttball and has the ball, good luck stopping him from scoring.

 

It's easy to stop an Assassin with the ball and all his CD's up. Force Leap roots work through everything. And I mean everything. Resolve, Force Shroud, whatever. Use it right after they sprint, preferably while on a fire trap. If you're a Guardian (who are the best ball carriers, by the way) you can Force Push them into the pit after Force Shroud wears off, which should be less than 2 seconds after your root does if you happened to catch them right as they activated it.

[Zunayson]

I'm convinced that i play the best AC and tree in the game... we are so perfect that everything is balanced around us and after 2 versions of the game we get only minor changes .(IA/MM) maybe you belong in the same category?

 

what i can understand is why the hell i don't see more of us?

 

only explanation is that either players or developers are id****.

 

It's because Snipers require posistioning and you don't run into the battle like a trooper.

 

Okay, melees are having a battle. As a squishy caster, you run in melee range like them. Snipers are like Sorcs a bit. In fact, they're just non-force using slightly less mobile sorcs.

[Astarica]

Assassinate is not that strong, heh.

 

It's also white damage and gets parried/dodged and all that constantly. Believe me I don't just tap the assassinate button and start looking to the next target, it doesn't work that way.

 

I'm actually pretty excited when I can kill someone that's at 30% with it. About the only time that happens is if I crit (with good RNG) on a sorc...AND it doesn't get dodged. Them being a bit undergeared also helps. It's white damage and misses often.

 

The only reason I even use it is because it only costs 25 force.

 

I've never seen someone survive until a second Assassinate without using a CD that'd get you out of any kind of mess (Undying Rage, Energy Shield) or a big heal.

 

Also Assassinate cannot be stopped by Force Shroud, the ability often seen in the mirror match. Use they can Saber Ward but you still have a 34% chance to connect even with no accuracy mod, versus 0% with any Force-based ability.

 

Unless you're talking about the mirror match, most classes only have a 5% chance to avoid it without a CD even with no accuracy mods.