Hotbox Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What bothers me is that intellectually I know why its added-- to encourage you to roll more toons and thereby extend the shelf life of the game since now you are invested in constantly grinding. The problem is , I like playing a certain class and get invested in my 'main' toon, both in time and credits as well as enjoyment. So for me, a legacy system is only of partial value. Ultimately its an RP thing since most of the skills are only usable in situations where they aren't really needed in the first place. Stuff like a mailbox on my ship is really no big deal, all I gotta do is step out to any port, they are right there. Seriously how lazy do you gotta be for that? No, I want a game that offers me a wide diversity of loot choices (a random loot table), less raiding and more wholesale carnage in the form of territorial PVP. I want to feel heroic and affect the world around me, not stand around spamming for a raid. To me thats just hamster wheeling my game play. If I wanted that I would go back to WOW. I like SWTOR and I don't want to see it become just another WOW clone, or get thrown into my F2P pile. it's a good game. But if they keep up appealing to RPrs who move onto to the next game in 3 months , or cater to the 'nerfer' crowd and whiners-- well all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot IMHO. I'll wait unti the next major patch after 1.2 to pass a final judgement, I want to give them a full year before I give up on SWTOR. However, its not looking good so far. If it keeps up on this path, I may give up on MMO's forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savantan Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What bothers me is that intellectually I know why its added-- to encourage you to roll more toons and thereby extend the shelf life of the game since now you are invested in constantly grinding. The problem is , I like playing a certain class and get invested in my 'main' toon, both in time and credits as well as enjoyment. So for me, a legacy system is only of partial value. Ultimately its an RP thing since most of the skills are only usable in situations where they aren't really needed in the first place. Stuff like a mailbox on my ship is really no big deal, all I gotta do is step out to any port, they are right there. Seriously how lazy do you gotta be for that? No, I want a game that offers me a wide diversity of loot choices (a random loot table), less raiding and more wholesale carnage in the form of territorial PVP. I want to feel heroic and affect the world around me, not stand around spamming for a raid. To me thats just hamster wheeling my game play. If I wanted that I would go back to WOW. I like SWTOR and I don't want to see it become just another WOW clone, or get thrown into my F2P pile. it's a good game. But if they keep up appealing to RPrs who move onto to the next game in 3 months , or cater to the 'nerfer' crowd and whiners-- well all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot IMHO. I'll wait unti the next major patch after 1.2 to pass a final judgement, I want to give them a full year before I give up on SWTOR. However, its not looking good so far. If it keeps up on this path, I may give up on MMO's forever. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalabakk Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 While I do like all the new things we will be able to unlock, there's still one underlying piece of this that bothers me. I don't like having to force a relationship between my characters. I had never intended or envisioned any of my characters being related to each other. They are separate entities that are only "linked" by a legacy name I chose. I'll end up creating some fake relationships just to get the bonuses, but that relationship will be completely arbitrary to me. I know this isn't a big deal and I'm not throwing a hissy fit over it, but it seems like they could give us all these benefits without making us create some artificial relationship between our characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalabakk Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ultimately its an RP thing... I'm not sure that all roleplayers would agree with that. If they decided to roleplay relationships between their characters, they would have already made them up. There are a good number of them whose characters have no relation or interaction between each other, so forcing a family tree on them might actually rub them the wrong way. They might be a little miffed at having to create a set of fake relationships, although they could completely ignore it in RP situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpyleL Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Just more fluff to encourage more solo-play instead of grouping. Good thing it's not an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenilai Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What bothers me is that intellectually I know why its added-- to encourage you to roll more toons and thereby extend the shelf life of the game since now you are invested in constantly grinding. The problem is , I like playing a certain class and get invested in my 'main' toon, both in time and credits as well as enjoyment. So for me, a legacy system is only of partial value. Ultimately its an RP thing since most of the skills are only usable in situations where they aren't really needed in the first place. Stuff like a mailbox on my ship is really no big deal, all I gotta do is step out to any port, they are right there. Seriously how lazy do you gotta be for that? No, I want a game that offers me a wide diversity of loot choices (a random loot table), less raiding and more wholesale carnage in the form of territorial PVP. I want to feel heroic and affect the world around me, not stand around spamming for a raid. To me thats just hamster wheeling my game play. If I wanted that I would go back to WOW. I like SWTOR and I don't want to see it become just another WOW clone, or get thrown into my F2P pile. it's a good game. But if they keep up appealing to RPrs who move onto to the next game in 3 months , or cater to the 'nerfer' crowd and whiners-- well all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot IMHO. I'll wait unti the next major patch after 1.2 to pass a final judgement, I want to give them a full year before I give up on SWTOR. However, its not looking good so far. If it keeps up on this path, I may give up on MMO's forever. I agree, Besides more choices and loot though I would love to see more dam multiplayer, more 2 player flashpoints, multiplayer space missions, EVERY quest repeatable , a way to party with level 50's that doesnt slow down your leveling. (No bonus XP since missions are done, and lose XP per kill). For a massive multiplayer game, this game is horrible at supporting actual multiplayer, unless you either dedicate to waiting on people to play together with in sync, on a monthly fee charging game, or make friends every single day then abandon them once you grow apart ingame. Hell many players dont even understand the system. They just solo grind until they tire out and leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymousy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 no, simply no. either you thrive to make a compelling universe based on story, or you allow the father sniper to kill the dark council member that the daughter operative is currently serving. 'oh, that sounds like a cool idea, who cares if it makes sense' is exactly the kind of thought process behind giving joda a lightsaber and making a star wars holiday special. leave this 'binding characters together' stuff to the fanfic writers and don't include it in the game. it's just one of those features that noone would have missed, had it never been mentioned (this includes all other forms of unlocking as it is not any kind of reward but a hassle, especially since class and race unlocks are not account but legacy=server bound as i understand it). -> remove the whole 'child of' relationship (just leave it as one generation of friends, enemies, whatever with possible alibi family trees that can be placed if you have to). -> I'm eagerly awaiting the type of skywalker legacy where luke and leia get together (you're going to get flames for race/family/gender restrictions anyway, no matter what you allow/restrict; hint: jainaXleia fanfics). -> remove unlockable species and make them free for all from the beginning. unlocking is not casual friendly (either play a lvl 50 char that i might not want to have or farm some credits what i also might not want to do. Forcing players to do actions they don't enjoy is bad for business as they get fed up with it and leave. Besides, I unlocked that stuff by paying for the game with my credit card, so just give me my race/class combinations (obviously they are not restricted based on story; maybe you should drop the 'story' sales pitch if you screw with it when ever someone thinks it might be 'cool'). -> make all remaining unlockables (special abilities) account wide instead of server-wide. The only thing you are creating that way is an enormous amount of work for your upcoming char transfer feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure that all roleplayers would agree with that. If they decided to roleplay relationships between their characters, they would have already made them up. There are a good number of them whose characters have no relation or interaction between each other, so forcing a family tree on them might actually rub them the wrong way. They might be a little miffed at having to create a set of fake relationships, although they could completely ignore it in RP situations. I have already made them up. But having this only helps. There is no downside to Legacy. And for my characters that have nothing to do with each other, I don't put him in the tree, simple. Edited March 30, 2012 by JeramieCrowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalabakk Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I have already made them up. But having this only helps. There is no downside to Legacy. And for my characters that have nothing to do with each other, I don't put him in the tree, simple. I guess the part I'm not clear about is if I have to put my characters in a family tree to get the Legacy benefits. I see two different things woven into this system: A way to share benefits across characters, and a family relationship. While each of them is fine by itself, I just think they make an odd pairing if you're forced to do one to get the other. Again, I'm not losing sleep over this or punching the monitor, it's just something that doesn't make full sense to me. Ultimately, a roleplayer is going to make up his or her own relationships, if any, so the one set by the Legacy system doesn't make a difference from that standpoint. Edited March 30, 2012 by Kalabakk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) What bothers me is that intellectually I know why its added-- to encourage you to roll more toons and thereby extend the shelf life of the game since now you are invested in constantly grinding. The problem is , I like playing a certain class and get invested in my 'main' toon, both in time and credits as well as enjoyment. So for me, a legacy system is only of partial value. Ultimately its an RP thing since most of the skills are only usable in situations where they aren't really needed in the first place. Stuff like a mailbox on my ship is really no big deal, all I gotta do is step out to any port, they are right there. Seriously how lazy do you gotta be for that? No, I want a game that offers me a wide diversity of loot choices (a random loot table), less raiding and more wholesale carnage in the form of territorial PVP. I want to feel heroic and affect the world around me, not stand around spamming for a raid. To me thats just hamster wheeling my game play. If I wanted that I would go back to WOW. I like SWTOR and I don't want to see it become just another WOW clone, or get thrown into my F2P pile. it's a good game. But if they keep up appealing to RPrs who move onto to the next game in 3 months , or cater to the 'nerfer' crowd and whiners-- well all they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot IMHO. I'll wait unti the next major patch after 1.2 to pass a final judgement, I want to give them a full year before I give up on SWTOR. However, its not looking good so far. If it keeps up on this path, I may give up on MMO's forever. I could not agree more. Legacy is a very big disappointment to me. I prefer playing MY toon TUX, not his offspring TUXjr or his evil twin brother XUT...I like playing my MAIN toon and maybe occasionally another...but this is really nothing more than a lame flow chart from what I can see, and hardly worth the hype Bioware is giving it (and yes, Bioware is hyping this one!!!). I'm not giving up on the game, but I'm certainly not at all excited for this system. I'd have preferred another WZ or another Ops over this any day. Edited March 30, 2012 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrockjew Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Really wishing I didn't make my Legacy Anchor a human now, seeing as humans can already be every class I will either have to spend money or go level up another race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I could not agree more. I'm not giving up on the game, but I'm certainly not at all excited for this system. I'd have preferred another WZ or another Ops over this any day. So you would prefer another 2h faceroll exercise over huge, interconnecting system that rewards those who play the game more and makes it more appealing to try other classes? You are insane. No, really you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardSF Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 do they keep putting up stuff like this without giving a release date.... Ideally this kinda stuff should be posted when the bugs are worked out and they have a date set for release... and the date should be put in the article... im not saying i want a release date now... or b4 its ready... but dont keep giving me these little tastes of icing when the cake is just barely in the oven... "And, in patch 1.3, here's a huge new set of features, changes, and content we never talked about, announced, or tested! We hope you enjoy this massive surprise, and we certainly hope you enjoy all the bugs, balance issues, and oversights we'll have because it didn't get any time on the PTS or any player comment at all! The person who inspired this change in our normal release patterns goes by the screen name 'Wookieluva', and, so you can all thank him personally for the joyous fun you'll experience with our untested content that was developed completely without community feedback, we've added a button you can click to get his real name, home address, and phone number!" In other words, if you don't talk about content "until its done", that means there's no feedback from the community -- because such feedback might change the content and thus require a delay. You can't set a "release date" until it's been through at least one or two rounds of test server debugging, because you can't debug it blind, behind the scenes. And hype is simply part of how things are done in modern society; movies, television, and books all being the advertising and marketing process long before the actual product is ready. BioWare is, finally, starting to do the right thing -- targeted solicitations for feedback, prolonged testing cycles, and detailed announcements of features in the planning stage. It is inevitable there will still be bugs or design choices that don't work out in practice, but there will be less of both, and that's a good thing. It's pretty interesting how many people commenting on this thread have self-evidently never held a job that required anything more complex than asking "Do you want fries with that?", because if they've ever been in a situation where they worked on a complex process (not just software development) that involved the contributions of multiple workers (often with conflicting priorities and varying skill sets), they would know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChorus Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Dear Bioware, With all these new exciting Legacy features, especially the unlocking of new species and character creation options, I hope that you will consider to (in the near future) increase the number of characters we can create per server. As an altoholic and as it is now, I find that eight slots are not enough if I want to try all classes. Then if I want to try every advanced class, I'd need 16. If I further got additional customization options... well, you get the picture. Eight slots are just not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FooBard Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Senior Designer William Wallace details the upcoming Legacy System changes in Game Update 1.2: Read More Anakin, a level 50 Sith.... ROFLMAO. Wow, these guys must take LOOOOOONG lunch breaks... and are late for the lore meetings... I dunno... I thought this game's lore was based off the movies... and I specifically remember Anakin being trained as a JEDI KNIGHT by Ben Kenobe (spelling?), who was a Jedi Master. Edited March 30, 2012 by FooBard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I thought this game's lore was based off the movies... No it's not. It's the Old Republic, not the New Order. Also the idea that Anakin being a lvl 50 Sith Warrior is being used as an example. Some people will bash people for the dumbest reasons possible... Yes lets bash someone for using an example of well known character to explain a system that has no bearing on lore at all. Guess it's true that haters have to hate. Edited March 30, 2012 by VanorDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Anakin, a level 50 Sith.... ROFLMAO. Wow, these guys must take LOOOOOONG lunch breaks... and are late for the lore meetings... I dunno... I thought this game's lore was based off the movies... and I specifically remember Anakin being trained as a JEDI KNIGHT by Ben Kenobe (spelling?), who was a Jedi Master. You must have missed Episodes 3-6 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I guess the part I'm not clear about is if I have to put my characters in a family tree to get the Legacy benefits. No, you don't. It's functionality is purely visual fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 You must have missed Episodes 3-6 then. ^^Win^^ Anyway, I look forward to being able to mail to lil brother items (specifically Kallig's lightsaber since he will be related to me, thus related to Kallig, & a Dark Jedi after all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IasonEvan Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 having to get to Legacy Level 25 and then spend millions of credits to unlock the Neutral market just so I can trade items cross faction with characters that can be family members is ludicrous. Just make all of the markets "Galactic" and cross faction like the Hutt Cartel and add them to every main city on every planet and actually do a service for your players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitokotachi Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 In fact, I hope that Bioware add more character slots, more preferably 8, because to have a complete experience of the legacy system would be required 16 slots x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 In fact, I hope that Bioware add more character slots, more preferably 8, because to have a complete experience of the legacy system would be required 16 slots x.x Yes, GZ has stated that giving us a way to add more character slots is in the planning stages as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoobooMagoo Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm very happy that we can buy species unlocks. I like to keep each server dedicated to a specific faction, so its good to know I can still unlock the faction specific races with credits. This update looks awesome. I can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 There's another thing with the legacy, would you want to use the special skills you have to be grouped with a companion. Meaning you can't solo play and use them. Then we already know the ships unlocks but the training doll aren't that worthy because you can find mostly all of them while traveling to your ship. For example the repair droid costs 1 millions credit to buy and, to my knowledge, gives no advantage at all. Now if we were allowed to recall directly to the space ships that would be another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraxxus Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How about Legacy Companions themselves? They would be unlocked at the same time as their passive stat bonus is. You are already going through all the time to max their affection and quests, why not unlock that companion for your legacy? Sure it would take a bit of work, and probably the re-hiring of voice actors, but if released in a future expansion, the expansion sales should be able to cover the cost, or come close. Not to mention returning players. If I had quit for one reason or another, this idea might convince me to return. Some key factors for Legacy Companions: Unlocked- obviously meaning unlocked through a higher character, and only playable within your legacy when you get that companion's archtype. For example, you unlock Lord Skurge on your jedi knight, and his archtype for an inquisitor would be Khem Val. When your new inquisitor gets Khem Val, Lord Skurge would appear under him in the crew management window. To prevent having too many deployable companions for crew tasks, just keep the current max number of deployable companions. Quest Gear- As it stands now, companion gear is limited to that specific companion. Just change the requirements from, say "requires Broonmark" to "requires Broonmark, Khem Val, Bowdaar, Qyzen Fess" etc. Whatever companion archtypes would use that item. Romance- I play a male sith warrior as a main, so I generally use Malavai Quinn (healer) when I'm questing. I dunno about anyone else, but I find myself constantly swapping to either Vette or Jaesa during dialogue parts to get the affection points for them, then swap back to Quinn to fight. With Legacy Companions, I could unlock Mako or Raina Temple, adventure with them, romance, whatever, and imo would make for a more fun experience. Just an idea. Either way, I'm happy and excited about the upcoming additions to the Legacy system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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