Porridgeskeletor Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Don't read further if you don't want to know key elements of the sith warrior story line..... Flaw is when Quinn comes out as a traitor; why is it that Jaesa wasn't able to use her powers earlier to see the true Quinn? Baras had nothing to worry about if Jaesa couldn't even detect something wrong with Quinn from the time she met him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarflood Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Well she was distracted .. by .. well you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When had Quinn ever given her cause to do so? Jaesa's power only works if she sits back and decides to use it. She'd spent years and years with Nomen Karr and never thought to look into his true nature. Quinn's sitting back and playing his part perfectly well. She has no reason to really sit back and decide she needs to know his true nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 When had Quinn ever given her cause to do so? Jaesa's power only works if she sits back and decides to use it. She'd spent years and years with Nomen Karr and never thought to look into his true nature. Quinn's sitting back and playing his part perfectly well. She has no reason to really sit back and decide she needs to know his true nature. I think with those long times spent in hyperspace, she would have looked in to each of them, even if to practise her skill. What we are both saying is hypothetical, and I still don't see a patch in this story flaw! P.S. It isn't a huge deal, just amused me when I noticed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Further Evidence: When in conversation at about 9000 rep with Jaesa, she actually states that you are the only one she hasn't used her powers on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Quinn is devoted to the empire through and through that never changes. Even after he turns he does it believing it for the best. So Quinn stays his course and doesn't change. Most likely why she doesn't sense it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Quinn is devoted to the empire through and through that never changes. Even after he turns he does it believing it for the best. So Quinn stays his course and doesn't change. Most likely why she doesn't sense it. But Jaesa's power allowed her to sense alignment, she could rat out spies working for Baras when she was a Jedi, hence Quinn.. From Wikia: "Jaesa also had a special talent similar to Force sight that allowed her to see the alignment and personality traits of other people. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I agree with you OP. definitely a confusing issue. I haven't experienced it yet with her though due to a bigger story issue...story breaking IMO. jaesa story pretty much halts if you are light side. I'm sure they want people to have options for good vs. bad (and I don't want to cross threads for this issue), but you choose light, and she is fine with it...that initial conversation. but after that she responds negatively to any choice you make that goes along with what she said she was going to do! When I chose the light option, I basically said that I was fighting the dark by being a "plant". She agrees that it's a good idea and she wants to go with me. But from that point on, any choice I make that involved helping people, i get negative points. Actually I rarely get ANY positive points on her ( could be that im capped on light). but from the get go, the whole jaessa storyline just dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostKamui Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 lol, She can sense alignment (Light or Dark) what does him betraying you show about that?....nothing he is still dark side through and through, even more so sense he tricked you all in the story. Sensing alignment has nothing to do with detecting lies, If I am a dark person and I lie it doesn't make me good, if I lied for dark reasons and thus I'm still dark so nothing for her to sense other then that.....hence why she didn't detect him being a traitor...cause that's not what she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXalas Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Don't read further if you don't want to know key elements of the sith warrior story line..... Flaw is when Quinn comes out as a traitor; why is it that Jaesa wasn't able to use her powers earlier to see the true Quinn? Baras had nothing to worry about if Jaesa couldn't even detect something wrong with Quinn from the time she met him. ....dude....good fraking question. I never thought about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 But Jaesa's power allowed her to sense alignment, she could rat out spies working for Baras when she was a Jedi, hence Quinn.. From Wikia: "Jaesa also had a special talent similar to Force sight that allowed her to see the alignment and personality traits of other people. " Right and Quinn never actually changes his alignment. He owes everything to Baras, by helping you he was helping Baras, and the empire. He was always Baras' patsy from the word go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Right and Quinn never actually changes his alignment. He owes everything to Baras, by helping you he was helping Baras, and the empire. He was always Baras' patsy from the word go. So by your logic, wouldn't Jaesa have noticed something was up with Quinn with his hate for the sith warrior and the emperor himself? There are too many holes in this leaky boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 lol, She can sense alignment (Light or Dark) what does him betraying you show about that?....nothing he is still dark side through and through, even more so sense he tricked you all in the story. Sensing alignment has nothing to do with detecting lies, If I am a dark person and I lie it doesn't make me good, if I lied for dark reasons and thus I'm still dark so nothing for her to sense other then that.....hence why she didn't detect him being a traitor...cause that's not what she does. Well actually yes she does. As that is why Baras was worried about her in the first place. As she could rat out his spies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xargyn Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) You're imagining the flaw. Quinn doesn't hate the warrior. Quinn respects the warrior and is turmoiled at having to betray him/her. He's also a master tactician. So even if Jaesa thought about "scanning" him, Quinn would know to avoid it. Either by avoiding her presence or keeping things hidden. It's important to understand that Jaesa doesn't read minds. She senses someone's true nature. That's how she was able to discover Baras's spies. She could sense the hidden darkness in them, as stated by the Republic spy during his torture under the effects of the Ravager. Quinn's nature doesn't change so there is nothing for her to sense. He is a loyal servant of the Empire, and when he betrays the warrior it is only because he believes in Baras. It's only after he tries, and fails, to kill the warrior that he realizes that Baras has led him down the wrong path. And all of this assumes that the warrior doesn't realize what Quinn is up to. Even Pierce indicates that something isn't quite right. The warrior may simply be letting Quinn play his hand because (s)he knows (s)he is up to the challenge. Edited April 2, 2012 by Xargyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Actually no, I don't believe I am imagining a flaw here. what you are saying is a contradiction. I understand that Jaesa doesn't read minds. But if she could detect Baras' spies, for the same reasons she would have been able to detect Quinn. He is a spy of Baras, and would have had uncharacteristic darkness inside him. Yes he followed Baras the whole time, but If Quinn respected the warrior, Jaesa would have picked up his remorse in destroyed one worthy of his respect. I do agree with the part that the warrior could Have known all along, but that is hypethetical. There is nothing really to confirm he did all along. As you ARE the warrior and have no idea, if nothing else. If he did know there are no conversation options fully stating he was waiting for that (as I remember). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Actually no, I don't believe I am imagining a flaw here. what you are saying is a contradiction. I understand that Jaesa doesn't read minds. But if she could detect Baras' spies, for the same reasons she would have been able to detect Quinn. He is a spy of Baras, and would have had uncharacteristic darkness inside him. Yes he followed Baras the whole time, but If Quinn respected the warrior, Jaesa would have picked up his remorse in destroyed one worthy of his respect. I do agree with the part that the warrior could Have known all along, but that is hypethetical. There is nothing really to confirm he did all along. As you ARE the warrior and have no idea, if nothing else. If he did know there are no conversation options fully stating he was waiting for that (as I remember). jaesa cant detect spies simply because they are spies, what she does is sense the contradiction between the way they openly act and what they actually believe ... the spies openly act in a manner that benefits the republic, but inwardly they believe in the righteousness of the empires cause in effect, she senses the contradiction between a persons actions and their beliefs there is no such contradiction within quinn, hes not presenting a view of himself that is contradictory to what he believes ... he acts openly like a faithful servant to the empire, and he inwardly believes he is a faithful servant to the empire jaesa wouldnt be able to detect any deception in quinn unless he was actively plotting his deception of the warrior while she was using her powers on him basically, the deception of the republic spies were very broad and constant and quinns deception is very specific and limited, therefore, much more difficult to detect thats how i understand it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeius Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 At first, Jaesa's power is active, she has to bother to check someone out. Maybe she considered it rude to do so? Or perhaps Quinn just put up a lead shield everytime she looked at him ala Belkar (though I've seen Belkar, and Quinn is no Belkar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 I will put my replies in red inside, CrazyAl: jaesa cant detect spies simply because they are spies, what she does is sense the contradiction between the way they openly act and what they actually believe ... the spies openly act in a manner that benefits the republic, but inwardly they believe in the righteousness of the empires cause Soooo... his contradiction of acting for the warrior but actually oposing him doesn't count? It has to be republic vs empire? No. in effect, she senses the contradiction between a persons actions and their beliefs Exactly. You are making my point but ignoring the facts. there is no such contradiction within quinn, hes not presenting a view of himself that is contradictory to what he believes ... he acts openly like a faithful servant to the empire, and he inwardly believes he is a faithful servant to the empire yes, he claims devotion to the empire, and the emporer but actually hates the emporer, and his empire, he openly acts a faithful servant to the empire, but is actually a servant to what he wants the empire to be. jaesa wouldnt be able to detect any deception in quinn unless he was actively plotting his deception of the warrior while she was using her powers on him He is a mad stretegist, he claimed he was watching the warrior at all times to make those battle droids to counter the warriors every move... So if Jaesa looked at him for even a second, like she claimed she has looked at everyone else except the warrior, then she would have sensed his deception. basically, the deception of the republic spies were very broad and constant and quinns deception is very specific and limited, therefore, much more difficult to detect Maybe then I am just over estimating her power, which means I just got caught up in the hype of half a story line of chasing a super powerful girl with powers whose likes are rarely seen lol thats how i understand it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ_SAX_MAN Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Though with her scanning for alignment, wouldn't it cause some issues with Vette as it seems she is some on the light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Though with her scanning for alignment, wouldn't it cause some issues with Vette as it seems she is some on the light side. She probs just hates her. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabrac Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The whole Quinn betrayal seems like a plot hole to me. Not that it happens, the problem is that is is so obvious at some point that the Warrior doing nothing before it happens does not make much sense imo. Not being able to kill him is also a plot holes. If we look close enough i am sure we will find dosens of plot holes. Or we can accept there are holes and enjoy the story. The Warriors story is one of the best in the game overall. On topic, Jaesa should sense something but it is not strange if she doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porridgeskeletor Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 The whole Quinn betrayal seems like a plot hole to me. Not that it happens, the problem is that is is so obvious at some point that the Warrior doing nothing before it happens does not make much sense imo. Not being able to kill him is also a plot holes. If we look close enough i am sure we will find dosens of plot holes. Or we can accept there are holes and enjoy the story. The Warriors story is one of the best in the game overall. On topic, Jaesa should sense something but it is not strange if she doesn't. I completelt agree with you, I enjoy the Sith warrior story line so much, I did the whole way through, just found this flaw in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I will put my replies in red inside, CrazyAl: jaesa cant detect spies simply because they are spies, what she does is sense the contradiction between the way they openly act and what they actually believe ... the spies openly act in a manner that benefits the republic, but inwardly they believe in the righteousness of the empires cause Soooo... his contradiction of acting for the warrior but actually oposing him doesn't count? It has to be republic vs empire? No. it doesnt have to be republic vs empire, but it would have to be a big enough divergence in a persons character that what they do outwardly is a stark contradiction to what they believe inwardly, with quinn that is not the case, he believes in the empire, he never pretends not to, he also believes in the abilities and power of the warrior, he just owes so much to baras that he still serves him jaesa cant just look at someone and tell who their master is, she just senses their true nature, and quinns truly believes that what he is doing is in service to the empire, which is what he is supposed to truly believe, his deception is such a technicality that jaesa doesnt notice it in effect, she senses the contradiction between a persons actions and their beliefs Exactly. You are making my point but ignoring the facts. im not ignoring the facts, im just looking at them in a more broad perspective, you see quinns betrayal as a major deception, i see it as very minor, quinns ultimate goal is in support of the empire, and his actions support that, who he takes orders from is a minor detail, especially considering that both the warrior and baras believe that what they are doing is in the best interests of the empire there is no such contradiction within quinn, hes not presenting a view of himself that is contradictory to what he believes ... he acts openly like a faithful servant to the empire, and he inwardly believes he is a faithful servant to the empire yes, he claims devotion to the empire, and the emporer but actually hates the emporer, and his empire, he openly acts a faithful servant to the empire, but is actually a servant to what he wants the empire to be. i think you are interpreting this part wrong ... he is a servant to someone that wants to change the empire for what they believe to be the better, even though he doesnt serve the emperor directly he serves in a manner which he feels is in the best interests of the empire, when the warrior is still a servant of baras he, also, is a servant to what baras wants the empire to be and not what the empire currently is, so if this counts as deception for quinn then why would it not be the same for the warrior? both server baras for the first 2 chapters they are both acting in a manner that they truly believe is for the betterment of the empire jaesa wouldnt be able to detect any deception in quinn unless he was actively plotting his deception of the warrior while she was using her powers on him He is a mad stretegist, he claimed he was watching the warrior at all times to make those battle droids to counter the warriors every move... So if Jaesa looked at him for even a second, like she claimed she has looked at everyone else except the warrior, then she would have sensed his deception. yes, he is a mad strategist, studying the warrior would be a normal part of his job, he is supposed to give tactical and strategic advice to the warrior so he should definitely have detailed knowledge of the warriors capabilities in battle ... studying the warrior wouldnt set off any red flags basically, the deception of the republic spies were very broad and constant and quinns deception is very specific and limited, therefore, much more difficult to detect Maybe then I am just over estimating her power, which means I just got caught up in the hype of half a story line of chasing a super powerful girl with powers whose likes are rarely seen lol perhaps ... i understood her power to work in a more broad sense, it was good for detecting spies because a spys entire life would be a lie, every part of who they are pretending to be is a lie, so it would be easy to detect, quinn is just hiding 1 lie ... who he serves, every other part of his life is openly truthful, i never got the impression that jaesa could pick up on such a specific deception thats how i understand it anyway re-replies in orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ_SAX_MAN Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I was kind of confused myself on exactly who she was setting out killing. Are they republic spies in the Empire? or Are they just like simply sith who have turned to the light side? (that is how i first understood it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaynae Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 You could take an entirely different tact... Let's say the reason Jeasa didn't sense any betrayal with Quinn is because he wasn't actually betraying you. He's a mad strategist and he's been with you for a long time. He's seen you decimate everything in your way, he has to know you will win. So, I can only conclude he actually wanted you to win. Perhaps he even strategized that since your power is fueled by passion and rage is a very powerful part of that...your rage at him will even help give you an edge with Baris. He was between a rock and a hard place. If he didn't do what Baris asked, then Baris would just find someone else to kill you. This way, Quinn is helping you. At least that's my justification for why he'd tell me he was completely devoted to my legacy and then tries to kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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