Who thinks this game will last 10yrs?

[Azzras]

I am finding this thread very entertaining.

 

 

I find it funny how many people are astroturfing on these forums. Must be very hard for people to live such sad and unsatisfying lives.

 

 

Now to the person who said SWG shutdown because they lost the license. That is an untrue statement. They did not lose the license they chose not to renew it. Sony released a statement stating that they wanted to focus on their own IP in the future and it was their decision not to renew. Search the net for their statement!

 

 

This game will be just fine. I know players who only play MMO's on weekends and some even log in once or twice a month because they are busy with life. Just because servers seem dead does not mean they lack sub accounts.

 

 

To those who keep saying they keep publishing phony numbers and statistics. They are a publicly traded company. Feel free to look up laws and penalties for lying to your investors.

 

 

To those who are armchair programers, game designers, writers and professional know it alls. Since you are all such experts why are you not employed at Bioware or for that matter any game company. With such expertise you must have the credentials to get a job at any MMO developer. I mean playing for X amount of years must mean you are all knowing when it comes to MMO. If you lack expertise why not invest in the game? Surely if you became a big enough investor you could force Bioware to do things your way!

 

 

As to the few who said Bioware do not read the boards or listen to the players. Are you kidding me? Why do you think there are too many servers? Players whined and cried about queue times until Bioware caved and added extra servers. If you don't believe me feel free to search the word queue and read those threads. Too many servers can be

blamed on Bioware and the players equally.

 

 

Much of update 1.2 is based on player input. Just because Bioware did not reply to your thread or a comment in a thread does not mean someone isn't listening. There is a whole thread full of responses given by the Dev team to player threads. They even have this thread in one convenient spot for players to peruse and see the feed back rather than searching individual threads page by page.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I am not defending Bioware I think they dropped the ball and released this game 6 months too early because of EA and investor pressure. That said I am glad to see that the game is getting the much needed improvements it needs to qualify as a AAA MMO. I think 1.2 should have been where beta began and after 2 months more of polish the game released. That said I am having a blast playing the game and am glad it released early.

 

 

I have never played an MMO that started off exceptional. Most of them did not even start off as good. It took time and the players and Dev team working side by side to make them good and some even great. It is amazing what constructive criticism can achieve not to mention following procedures.

 

This game will be fine now and in the future. As to the original question will it last 10 years? My answer: WHO CARES, enjoy the ride while it lasts!

 

My one final thought to those who are astroturfing. Thank you for paying for an account and financially supporting this game. I do find it pathetic people would pay 15 bucks a month just to bash a game, whatever floats your boat I guess! This does not apply to those with constructive criticism.

 

My new hero!

[Rohke]

 

 

To those who are armchair programers, game designers, writers and professional know it alls. Since you are all such experts why are you not employed at Bioware or for that matter any game company. With such expertise you must have the credentials to get a job at any MMO developer. I mean playing for X amount of years must mean you are all knowing when it comes to MMO. If you lack expertise why not invest in the game? Surely if you became a big enough investor you could force Bioware to do things your way!

 

Hey your right!! somebody give me a job please

 

No in truth designing mmo's is hard but then again theres lots of examples out there. But I will say blizzard seemed and still seems to be doing things right. Sure the formula they use is getting a bit old now and we seek something fresh but it was still great. Not blizzard's fault were getting bored of it after many years.

 

I cannot actualy find any flaws in WoW's design. But I can with TOR's. Which might be down to blizzard just being better than bioware. They may have just got lucky, who knows what the reasoning is.

 

I see alot of TOR will get better, TOR has potential etc I hope it does but im not going to wait around for it to happen. Done that too many times with previous mmo's and in the end they never reached what they set out to do.

[Darnu]

In my opinion. This game will be free to play at best in 5yrs if they do not do a massive overhall . With the legitimate effort being made by other mmo companies this year to make a game that will last 10yrs its shocking that this game has not come out with the 1.2 patch yet.

For them to say this game will last 10 years is interesting. I hope they live up to the hype.

 

If they keep it online and up maybe in 10 years they'll have turned it into a game in its own right and they'll have learnt how to make a game. I'm not losing hope completely, but it seems they've got a loooooooong learning curve ahead of them and I'm kind of hoping the sheer initial investment size might stop them from pulling the plug and abandoning it. It seems they are learning, so there is that at least. But I think it's going to take them years. But the fact that out of the box they feel they've made their money back has me a little worried knowing EA's involved. Made some cash? Job done time to move on to next project.

[Azzras]

If they keep it online and up maybe in 10 years they'll have turned it into a game in its own right and they'll have learnt how to make a game. I'm not losing hope completely, but it seems they've got a loooooooong learning curve ahead of them and I'm kind of hoping the sheer initial investment size might stop them from pulling the plug and abandoning it. It seems they are learning, so there is that at least. But I think it's going to take them years. But the fact that out of the box they feel they've made their money back has me a little worried knowing EA's involved. Made some cash? Job done time to move on to next project.

 

I'm sure the devs working countless hours on the game would argue this point with you.

[Troedoff]

WoW is many years old, give BW 6 years, and lets see how the progression of this game goes. Stop whining about a game that has been out close to 4 months. Get off you entitlement, and instant gratification high horses for a while, and relax. They will fix things, and they will release new material, and they will, and have been listening to the player base.

[Jett-Rinn]

I am finding this thread very entertaining.

 

 

I find it funny how many people are astroturfing on these forums. Must be very hard for people to live such sad and unsatisfying lives.

 

 

Now to the person who said SWG shutdown because they lost the license. That is an untrue statement. They did not lose the license they chose not to renew it. Sony released a statement stating that they wanted to focus on their own IP in the future and it was their decision not to renew. Search the net for their statement!

 

 

This game will be just fine. I know players who only play MMO's on weekends and some even log in once or twice a month because they are busy with life. Just because servers seem dead does not mean they lack sub accounts.

 

 

To those who keep saying they keep publishing phony numbers and statistics. They are a publicly traded company. Feel free to look up laws and penalties for lying to your investors.

 

 

To those who are armchair programers, game designers, writers and professional know it alls. Since you are all such experts why are you not employed at Bioware or for that matter any game company. With such expertise you must have the credentials to get a job at any MMO developer. I mean playing for X amount of years must mean you are all knowing when it comes to MMO. If you lack expertise why not invest in the game? Surely if you became a big enough investor you could force Bioware to do things your way!

 

 

As to the few who said Bioware do not read the boards or listen to the players. Are you kidding me? Why do you think there are too many servers? Players whined and cried about queue times until Bioware caved and added extra servers. If you don't believe me feel free to search the word queue and read those threads. Too many servers can be

blamed on Bioware and the players equally.

 

 

Much of update 1.2 is based on player input. Just because Bioware did not reply to your thread or a comment in a thread does not mean someone isn't listening. There is a whole thread full of responses given by the Dev team to player threads. They even have this thread in one convenient spot for players to peruse and see the feed back rather than searching individual threads page by page.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I am not defending Bioware I think they dropped the ball and released this game 6 months too early because of EA and investor pressure. That said I am glad to see that the game is getting the much needed improvements it needs to qualify as a AAA MMO. I think 1.2 should have been where beta began and after 2 months more of polish the game released. That said I am having a blast playing the game and am glad it released early.

 

 

I have never played an MMO that started off exceptional. Most of them did not even start off as good. It took time and the players and Dev team working side by side to make them good and some even great. It is amazing what constructive criticism can achieve not to mention following procedures.

 

This game will be fine now and in the future. As to the original question will it last 10 years? My answer: WHO CARES, enjoy the ride while it lasts!

 

My one final thought to those who are astroturfing. Thank you for paying for an account and financially supporting this game. I do find it pathetic people would pay 15 bucks a month just to bash a game, whatever floats your boat I guess! This does not apply to those with constructive criticism.

 

You sir or madam are full of win.

 

Bravo and Kudos.

[Rohke]

Yeah but EA is the bigger investor here and has more clout than what the bioware devs want.

[Azzras]

Hey your right!! somebody give me a job please

 

No in truth designing mmo's is hard but then again theres lots of examples out there. But I will say blizzard seemed and still seems to be doing things right. Sure the formula they use is getting a bit old now and we seek something fresh but it was still great. Not blizzard's fault were getting bored of it after many years.

 

I cannot actualy find any flaws in WoW's design. But I can with TOR's. Which might be down to blizzard just being better than bioware. They may have just got lucky, who knows what the reasoning is.

 

I see alot of TOR will get better, TOR has potential etc I hope it does but im not going to wait around for it to happen. Done that too many times with previous mmo's and in the end they never reached what they set out to do.

 

Enjoy your Kung Fu Panda Pokemon Adventures.

 

[Rohke]

I will! but not as a pandaren (which are cool and in the lore and was designed way before the film kung fu panda) Going human monk me thinks. As for the pet battle system, pokemon was one of the biggest games for nintendo on the gameboy. So cannot be all bad.

 

TOR could do with a few side distractions.

[CrunkShizzle]

free to play in 5 years?

 

5 months more like it with the amount of unhappy people i see

[Goretzu]

Enjoy your Kung Fu Panda Pokemon Adventures.

 

 

TBF the monk class was the one glaring ommission from WoW (reguarding EQ1).

 

It'll probably be quite popular.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Goretzu

[fungihoujo]

I thought the doomsayers were saying it went f2p after falling to 100k subs in January 2012. What's the matter?

 

Of course the game will change alot in 5 years- look at how vastly WoW had changed from vanilla to Wrath- it was barely the same game.

 

In 5 years we could have 3d space combat, public quests, world pvp zones that work, 2-4 new classes and races each, a dozen more planets, quick travel, dungeon finder, mods, rated champions, challenging operations that take a month for even the best guild to pass on NM.

 

Who knows- it's all pretty reasonable.

[Tuscad]

free to play in 5 years?

 

5 months more like it with the amount of unhappy people i see

 

Careful, you don't want the Bioware Defense Force to come stormin in.

[Cerion]

I like this review. Reality hits hard...

 

Of course you like it...the 'review' validates your view. Doesn't make either one of you right.

[Goretzu]

 

In 5 years we could have 3d space combat, public quests, world pvp zones that work, 2-4 new classes and races each, a dozen more planets, quick travel, dungeon finder, mods, rated champions, challenging operations that take a month for even the best guild to pass on NM.

 

 

In fairness you'd really have to hope it would have all them in 5 years, otherwise I dunno what they'd have been doing for 5 years (EQ1, for example, quadrupled it's landmass within 4 years).

Edited March 29, 2012 by Goretzu

[Reklektos]

Easily lasts 10 years. Write that down. ----cheers

[Sirsri]

I am finding this thread very entertaining.

 

 

I find it funny how many people are astroturfing on these forums. Must be very hard for people to live such sad and unsatisfying lives.

 

 

Now to the person who said SWG shutdown because they lost the license. That is an untrue statement. They did not lose the license they chose not to renew it. Sony released a statement stating that they wanted to focus on their own IP in the future and it was their decision not to renew. Search the net for their statement!

 

 

This game will be just fine. I know players who only play MMO's on weekends and some even log in once or twice a month because they are busy with life. Just because servers seem dead does not mean they lack sub accounts.

 

 

To those who keep saying they keep publishing phony numbers and statistics. They are a publicly traded company. Feel free to look up laws and penalties for lying to your investors.

 

 

To those who are armchair programers, game designers, writers and professional know it alls. Since you are all such experts why are you not employed at Bioware or for that matter any game company. With such expertise you must have the credentials to get a job at any MMO developer. I mean playing for X amount of years must mean you are all knowing when it comes to MMO. If you lack expertise why not invest in the game? Surely if you became a big enough investor you could force Bioware to do things your way!

 

 

As to the few who said Bioware do not read the boards or listen to the players. Are you kidding me? Why do you think there are too many servers? Players whined and cried about queue times until Bioware caved and added extra servers. If you don't believe me feel free to search the word queue and read those threads. Too many servers can be

blamed on Bioware and the players equally.

 

 

Much of update 1.2 is based on player input. Just because Bioware did not reply to your thread or a comment in a thread does not mean someone isn't listening. There is a whole thread full of responses given by the Dev team to player threads. They even have this thread in one convenient spot for players to peruse and see the feed back rather than searching individual threads page by page.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I am not defending Bioware I think they dropped the ball and released this game 6 months too early because of EA and investor pressure. That said I am glad to see that the game is getting the much needed improvements it needs to qualify as a AAA MMO. I think 1.2 should have been where beta began and after 2 months more of polish the game released. That said I am having a blast playing the game and am glad it released early.

 

 

I have never played an MMO that started off exceptional. Most of them did not even start off as good. It took time and the players and Dev team working side by side to make them good and some even great. It is amazing what constructive criticism can achieve not to mention following procedures.

 

This game will be fine now and in the future. As to the original question will it last 10 years? My answer: WHO CARES, enjoy the ride while it lasts!

 

My one final thought to those who are astroturfing. Thank you for paying for an account and financially supporting this game. I do find it pathetic people would pay 15 bucks a month just to bash a game, whatever floats your boat I guess! This does not apply to those with constructive criticism.

 

 

You must not have been around business long. SOE had an exclusive star wars MMO licence. They had a few options, convert the licence to a non exclusive one, try and retain the exclusive one (given that SWTOR was almost done) or give up entirely. And the other side of this equation was LucasArts asking price. If LucasArst demanded a price that SOE couldn't pay (or obviously wouldn't), then SOE 'chose' to not renew the licence, in the same way I am sitting here choosing to not by a Porsche. SWG was, from launch day, brand dilution and brand devaluing for LucasArts. It was a bad game that under performed from day one. They were willing to milk it for a while since there was nothing else, but they wanted it killed. When it didn't even match EQ (same company) numbers they were clearly not going to be happy.

 

You are right, that as a publicly traded company they aren't allowed to outright lie. They have to be very careful when giving 'guidance'. But that doesn't mean what they say isn't massaged and cherry picked to sound the way they want. This is in no way unique to EA, nor is it illegal, they have teams of lawyers for investor relations for just this reason. Ultimately investors will care about how many people are paying money, and what projected retention for that group is, and how much it costs to keep that retention. I think we can all honestly agree it's too early to really know or understand those numbers all that well.

 

As to your armchair programmer comment. There are a lot of us here who work on, or with very successful studios, and on large software systems. BioWare only has about 800 development staff (400 of which are on SWTOR), there isn't room for everyone, nor is there a need for it. I don't work for free, but that to me means implementations or direct people management, you shouldn't be able to patent an algorithm or general concept in computer science, nor should you charge someone for saying "a solution to your problem is found in "the art of game design by jesse schnell" (not that said book actually has many solutions to anything, it really is an arts overview). If that means we point them to the right things to hunt down that's nothing but good. There's nothing in an MMO that requires some new fundamental research on information theory here, there are far more complex online systems than video games running, but obviously the poor guys in austin don't know everything out there. We can point them at work going on elsewhere, and they can find it themselves.

 

 

The issue on all of this is the business side of things, not on game side of things. Bioware may have to lay off staff or the like but the game could keep going indefinitely on 100k subscribers from a regular business perspective. But this isn't regular business, this is EA and LucasArts and LucasArst especially only looks out for LucasArts.

 

I think we all agree 1.0-1.1 are underdelivered on expectations, that doesn't meant it was bad, but any product could be better. Though having played in the beta back in september, I would say they released the game they wanted to release, that was the wrong game for the market they had, and they've paid a price for that, but that happens. With any product like this though, you have to expect 1.1 to be triage, and 1.2 to be the first step to the future, and showing how much they're listening. Thus far it looks like they're crawling in the right direction mostly, but they're stopping to put lipstick on pigs on the way (the UI changes for example), and that's not going to endear them to the playerbase. I don't suppose they really have a concrete longer term plan for all of the in game systems that they could even talk about yet even if they wanted to, because there's a hard time managing the information flow of feedback and figuring out how to prioritize it. Though conveying long terms plans would go a long way to giving players confidence in the 'vision' of what the product will be, I'm not sure they have a 'vision' just yet.

[lineschmidt]

I like this review. Reality hits hard...

A wordpress blog? really?

 

Now that's just desperate

[mohacs]

It'll never last 8.5 years like SWG if they only expand the content as it is now. They need to revamp the entire game engine and fix the FPS issues and lags, get out of instancing hell, make this game massive multiplayer by getting rid of the server seperation somehow, make PVE/Class missions interesting instead of keeping boring click X kill X missions, create planetsize explorable worlds, add LOTR style housing in sandboxy areas, add space exploration and Battlefront 2/XvT style space combat, get rid of the static lifeless feel of the worlds and NPCs, implement some A.I. for the mobs.

 

Well basically all what should have been there on release of a game with this budget size.

 

well said.

[Belpheghor]

Yeah but EA is the bigger investor here and has more clout than what the bioware devs want.

 

And EA is the bigger problem imho.

 

EA killed Mythic. DAoC had a pretty loyal fanbase and when Warhammer came out many had high hopes for it and the game INITIALLY did quite well, but EA forced Mythic to put out an unfinished product that was often called Bughammer and they could never fully straighten out the bugs nor balance the classes, thus the game rapidly died off.

 

I see a similar trend here, after playing beta for several months I knew it wasn't at all ready for prime time, it needed a lot more work to be done, graphics, UI, combat, PvP, LFG, FPS and lag issues, etc, but EA forced it out for the holidays, come hell or high water because they wanted to cash in on the Star Wars license and it worked, the game sold tons......but at what price?

 

Some say the biggest factor that could lead to the games early demise is the game engine they choose, haven't heard one positive thing about the Hero Engine yet, not a game designer, don't know, but certainly with all the new MMOs coming out soon Bioware is on a rather unstable foundation.

[Burtlebe]

The way I see it is, Worrying about the Future only allows the present to slip away unenjoyed.

 

I was in beta 7 months so I have seen my fair share of threads like this and guess what they was all wrong, even the positive ones.

 

If you enjoy the game play it, the day you stop enjoying it then pack up your stuff and move on.

 

There are ways to express yourself in a post to bring about positive development change, none of those ways include whining threatening or preaching the demise of said development.

 

I personally am enjoying the game for what it is. I also send in suggestion of things I would like to see expanded on or modified with reasons and examples. The day I stop enjoying the game will be the day folks dont see me login or post cause once I am done here I am gone, no raging over why.

 

I will in fact purchase GW2 because I enoy the story lines but if its similiar to GW then it will be more of a distraction game, something to play a few hours a week to take a break from my main game.

 

I have seen people mention warhammer, I played the game at launch for about a year, loved the game but the 2 faction system killed it along with all the constant server merges and transfer trying to balance out the two faction system. I still play it from time to time, because the pvp mechanic in it was pretty awesome.

[Badlander]

Then why has SWTOR made more subs in 3 - 4 months that SWG did in its 8.5 year lifetime?

 

That is easy to answer. It is because most people are like sheep and would rather be held by the hand and shown how to have fun rather than make their own fun.

[Jett-Rinn]

A wordpress blog? really?

 

Now that's just desperate

 

Oh let him cling to it

 

It's all they have really since all the professional review sites raved about TOR.

 

ib4 B..b..but they were all payed offff!!!!!!!

Edited March 29, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[illgot]

it can last but will go free to play by then

[DieAlteHexe]

That is easy to answer. It is because most people are like sheep and would rather be held by the hand and shown how to have fun rather than make their own fun.

 

Orrrrrr, they like a variety of ways to have fun!

 

Sometimes, I just want to kick back and mosey along. If I want thrills, well, RL provides plenty of those for me.