Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Kreia/Traya seemed to still have a good grasp on herself. So did Revan once he at least partially broke free of Vitiate's control as Dark Lord. Are there any others that stick out as unique like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Revan had fallen to the Dark Side, or at least was on the verge of doing so, before Malachor V, he clearly had been warped in that war, his plan for Malachor V is evidence towards this. That is without the clear statements from the KotOR Campaign Guide. As far as the actual topic goes, I don't believe such a thing is even possible. We have seen what happens to all that believe they can use the Dark Side without it corrupting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) And that's ignoring the fact that he was completely bat-s**t insane during the Boarding Party-Foundry flashpoints. Also: Gotta agree with Rayla on this one, playing through all of the Empire story lines shows that all of the Sith you encounter are at least a little crazy. Edited March 28, 2012 by Aximand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Revan had fallen to the Dark Side, or at least was on the verge of doing so, before Malachor V, he clearly had been warped in that war, his plan for Malachor V is evidence towards this. That is without the clear statements from the KotOR Campaign Guide. As far as the actual topic goes, I don't believe such a thing is even possible. We have seen what happens to all that believe they can use the Dark Side without it corrupting them. Yeeeea.......thanks. We get it, you don't like Revan. But a Dark Lord who waged a "this is for your own good preparedness" war against the Republic & subsequently managed to walk both paths....yea he still managed to hold onto at least part of himself. It was just obvious with Kreia/Traya. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Yeeeea.......thanks. We get it, you don't like Revan But a Dark Lord who waged a "this is for your own good preparedness" war against the Republic & subsequently managed to walk both paths....yea he still managed to hold onto at least part of himself. It was just obvious with Kreia/Traya. Anyone else? Nice assumption there. The Revan novel makes it clear, he waged a war to make his own Empire, not to defend the Republic, but to take it over and challenge Vitiate himself with his own Empire. Also he didn't walk 'both paths' or 'use the light and the dark', if you will, that isn't possible, for anyone. Revan achieved a sense of oneness with the force, that is it. And that by the way, was only achieved after the many things his mind had gone through, it basically broke down the barriers he had mentally beforehand. EDIT: Also, it was pretty obvious ever since falling to the Dark Side Kreia had ever since then walked down that path, she was vindictive and was practically insane. Edited March 28, 2012 by Rayla_Felana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Nice assumption there. The Revan novel makes it clear, he waged a war to make his own Empire, not to defend the Republic, but to take it over and challenge Vitiate himself with his own Empire. Also he didn't walk 'both paths' or 'use the light and the dark', if you will, that isn't possible, for anyone. Revan achieved a sense of oneness with the force, that is it. And that by the way, was only achieved after the many things his mind had gone through, it basically broke down the barriers he had mentally beforehand. EDIT: Also, it was pretty obvious ever since falling to the Dark Side Kreia had ever since then walked down that path, she was vindictive and was practically insane. Then why has it been said a million times here that Revan was indeed merely trying to "prepare the Republic for the REAL Sith Empire." Pretty sure that's become conventional wisdom here. There has to be at least SOME truth to it. But in your assertion, you help prove that Revan was indeed strong enough to break free of Vitiate's control, as obviously no pawn of his would be planning what you say against him. Revan was a Dark Lord, DS. He then became a redeemed, LS Jedi Knight again. That's walking both paths I say, not at the same time tho of course. Also, whenever I interacted with Kreia/Traya in KOTOR, she always seemed calm, collected, reflective, & rational to me. Agree to disagree I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 And that's ignoring the fact that he was completely bat-s**t insane during the Boarding Party-Foundry flashpoints. Also: Gotta agree with Rayla on this one, playing through all of the Empire story lines shows that all of the Sith you encounter are at least a little crazy. Not to mention a good portion of the Jedi Masters you run into are pretty much apenuts insane. Only one I can think of that was actually cool and honorable was Master Timmns on Belsavis with my Warrior. Definitely a cool dude and a stand up guy. He helped with the final class boss on the planet and we ended up being buds and parting with a handshake. He seems to be the ONLY exception, though. Every other Jedi I ran into was hell bent on fighting even though I wasn't threatening them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Not to mention a good portion of the Jedi Masters you run into are pretty much apenuts insane. Only one I can think of that was actually cool and honorable was Master Timmns on Belsavis with my Warrior. Definitely a cool dude and a stand up guy. He helped with the final class boss on the planet and we ended up being buds and parting with a handshake. He seems to be the ONLY exception, though. Every other Jedi I ran into was hell bent on fighting even though I wasn't threatening them. Well now that's not very light sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well now that's not very light sided. That's the way they're portrayed in the Sith arcs, especially. I get the feeling they're more bent than the Republic storylines show. We get to see them as they really are. Run a LS SW and you will see what I mean. Best examples are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 No Sith has managed to not let the dark side control/twist them. "You don't know the power of the darkside." - Vader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's the way they're portrayed in the Sith arcs, especially. I get the feeling they're more bent than the Republic storylines show. We get to see them as they really are. Run a LS SW and you will see what I mean. Best examples are there. LS SW: I aint gonna kill you. You suck, but yea can leave. LS JK: IN TEH NAME OF TEH LIGHT I WILL DECAPITATE YOU! Am I close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 LS SW: I aint gonna kill you. You suck, but yea can leave. LS JK: IN TEH NAME OF TEH LIGHT I WILL DECAPITATE YOU! Am I close? Hmmm... Well, purely LS JKs always ask for the bad guy to surrender first. If not, then after the beatdown, they ask AGAIN for surrender. If there is a SECOND beatdown, they ask AGAIN. I said "Screw this!" and decapitated them, but that's just me. But then, in the JK storyline, the Sith ALWAYS attack no matter what you say during the convos. Never saw one that didn't. Even Lord Praven, who is the most honorable Sith NPC in the game. You have to fight him, since his honor and service to Darth Angral demands it. Afterward, he does surrender and you can turn him to the LS. He then goes and trains as a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hmmm... Well, purely LS JKs always ask for the bad guy to surrender first. If not, then after the beatdown, they ask AGAIN for surrender. If there is a SECOND beatdown, they ask AGAIN. I said "Screw this!" and decapitated them, but that's just me. But then, in the JK storyline, the Sith ALWAYS attack no matter what you say during the convos. Never saw one that didn't. Even Lord Praven, who is the most honorable Sith NPC in the game. You have to fight him, since his honor and service to Darth Angral demands it. Afterward, he does surrender and you can turn him to the LS. He then goes and trains as a Jedi. Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Then why has it been said a million times here that Revan was indeed merely trying to "prepare the Republic for the REAL Sith Empire." Pretty sure that's become conventional wisdom here. There has to be at least SOME truth to it. That was the theory in-game KotOR 2 characters had and most fans had, and it did hold considerable weight, until Drew Karpyshyn decided to kick that idea to death in his novel in favour of making the Emperor look like Sidious 2.0. But in your assertion, you help prove that Revan was indeed strong enough to break free of Vitiate's control, as obviously no pawn of his would be planning what you say against him. I never said he wasn't, I just said he was already a Dark Sider before Dromund Kaas and his six month infiltration with Alek. Revan was a Dark Lord, DS. He then became a redeemed, LS Jedi Knight again. That's walking both paths I say, not at the same time tho of course. Yes he was, and I apologise for misinterpreting your statement to mean walking both at the same time, what I will say is, do remember he had to be mindwiped into redemption, that wasn't self-imposed. Also, whenever I interacted with Kreia/Traya in KOTOR, she always seemed calm, collected, reflective, & rational to me. Agree to disagree I guess. I agree completely, so was Sidious, and we all know how insane he was, he thought that the best thing that could ever happen would be him eating the galaxy, completely insane. Kreia became vindictive after being outcast twice, and came up with the insane idea of killing the force. What I will say is, she had moments of clarity, even once admitting that perhaps all she was, was an old woman who had come to despise the very thing she relied upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 That was the theory in-game KotOR 2 characters had and most fans had, and it did hold considerable weight, until Drew Karpyshyn decided to kick that idea to death in his novel in favour of making the Emperor look like Sidious 2.0. I never said he wasn't, I just said he was already a Dark Sider before Dromund Kaas and his six month infiltration with Alek. Yes he was, and I apologise for misinterpreting your statement to mean walking both at the same time, what I will say is, do remember he had to be mindwiped into redemption, that wasn't self-imposed. I agree completely, so was Sidious, and we all know how insane he was, he thought that the best thing that could ever happen would be him eating the galaxy, completely insane. Kreia became vindictive after being outcast twice, and came up with the insane idea of killing the force. What I will say is, she had moments of clarity, even once admitting that perhaps all she was, was an old woman who had come to despise the very thing she relied upon. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarbacca Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well lets see... Luke was consumed by the Dark Side once or twice, so hes out. Sith wise...I think Dooku was pretty good at controlling himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) I find the whole thing with being both dark and light stupid cause in canon that does not actually work the so called "grey" jedi are light side even jolee is still light if you look at his alignment meter. Oh and kriea? she is dark side she is just hiding it since if you ever agree with her in conversations you get smacked with dark side points. Kriea advocates killing those who are no longer useful to you and if you are dark side at the endgame dungeon she wants you murder your companions because you will become stronger in the dark side if you do. Kriea is insane. You can't control the dark side the dark side WANTS you to think that but the dark side will always twist you in some fashion. Heck Darth bane murdered a farther and his two kids. Revan said he had balance but at the end of the day he fell to the dark side again. He wanted to genocide the imperial population. Even talking with most sith NPC's they are unbalanced. Darth zash I lied that I killed tu kata and drank the blood from their hearts to get the holocron you know what she said? "How come that did not work when I tried it?" Darth baras if you let the slave go at the start of kaas he says "Slaves are more useful when they are beaten and down trodden". I also think some people need to see baras's torture session with the SIS agent. All sith are insane in some fashion you can't control the dark side, the dark side will always twist you. Force users are not like normal people, normal people would try to find balance but the force does not work that way if you try to find balance that simply makes it easier for the dark side to tempt you. Edited March 28, 2012 by lokdron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatefrenzy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Vectivus: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus He seems to be a likely candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I find the whole thing with being both dark and light stupid cause in canon that does not actually work the so called "grey" jedi are light side even jolee is still light if you look at his alignment meter. Oh and kriea? she is dark side she is just hiding it since if you ever agree with her in conversations you get smacked with dark side points. Kriea advocates killing those who are no longer useful to you and if you are dark side at the endgame dungeon she wants you murder your companions because you will become stronger in the dark side if you do. Kriea is insane. You can't control the dark side the dark side WANTS you to think that but the dark side will always twist you in some fashion. Heck Darth bane murdered a farther and his two kids. Revan said he had balance but at the end of the day he fell to the dark side again. He wanted to genocide the imperial population. Even talking with most sith NPC's they are unbalanced. Darth zash I lied that I killed tu kata and drank the blood from their hearts to get the holocron you know what she said? "How come that did not work when I tried it?" Darth baras if you let the slave go at the start of kaas he says "Slaves are more useful when they are beaten and down trodden". I also think some people need to see baras's torture session with the SIS agent. All sith are insane in some fashion you can't control the dark side, the dark side will always twist you. Force users are not like normal people, normal people would try to find balance but the force does not work that way if you try to find balance that simply makes it easier for the dark side to tempt you. After you get back from Grathan's estate, there are a few REALLY good opportunities to troll Baras when he's screaming that he can't break the SIS Agent. "Is there a problem here?" and "Well, you certainly have a healthy set of lungs!" are good convo choices for messing with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Vectivus: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus He seems to be a likely candidate. He is the most likely candidate, however most of that information came from Lumiya and could have been warped to serve her own purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 He is the most likely candidate, however most of that information came from Lumiya and could have been warped to serve her own purposes. Agreed, I believe that story was merely Lumiya's bait, to convince Jacen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Vectivus: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus He seems to be a likely candidate. And created by Aaron Allston, who is a damn good Star Wars author. I believe we have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Traya is a controversial topic. She was never really dark, she was grey... She became sith because it made her more powerful simply because of her hatred of the force, she never really embraced their ideas, other than slaughter the jedi, which was again because of her hatred of the force. You notice these things by comparing her to sion and nihilus. She is completely different from either of them... Revan WAS rather perverted during his reign as dark lord... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Traya is a controversial topic. She was never really dark, she was grey... She became sith because it made her more powerful simply because of her hatred of the force, she never really embraced their ideas, other than slaughter the jedi, which was again because of her hatred of the force. You notice these things by comparing her to sion and nihilus. She is completely different from either of them... I personally think she was a Dark Sider in denial, a lot of the things she believed led to the dark side and were just the type of things a smart Dark Sider would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I personally think she was a Dark Sider in denial, a lot of the things she believed led to the dark side and were just the type of things a smart Dark Sider would do. She was also a great jedi master in her day... But how could she be sith, if to be sith is generally wanting to dominate the galaxy through the force, and Traya wishes to dominate the galaxy through the destruction of the force, she was More Dark Side than light, but she didnt really follow the force anyway. I guess if you think more about the last few months of her life she was darkside, but she spent the years before in exile alone without the force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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