Zaodon Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 PvP is not fair fight dueling. In WZ there are OP classes. Period. How can a class be OP if I can go 50/50 against all classes, with all classes? Clearly, no class is OP. Only players are "OP", by being better than the nubs that queue for PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 How can a class be OP if I can go 50/50 against all classes, with all classes? Clearly, no class is OP. Only players are "OP", by being better than the nubs that queue for PvP. I do think that some classes have natural advantages in 1v1 situations, especially due to the rock/paper/scissors nature of PvP in this game, and the fact that some classes excel in group situations while others are good solo and less desirable in larger engagements. With that said, these advantages can be overcome by knowledge, skill w/ your class, and some experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I do think that some classes have natural advantages in 1v1 situations, especially due to the rock/paper/scissors nature of PvP in this game SWTOR PvP is NOT rock/paper/scissors AT ALL. Its chess piece A vs. chess piece B. In some matchups, you're a pawn and the other class is the queen. In other matchups, you're the queen and the other class is the pawn. But a pawn can still take a queen. Edited March 29, 2012 by Zaodon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salamanderx Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 SWTOR PvP is NOT rock/paper/scissors AT ALL. Its chess piece A vs. chess piece B. In some matchups, you're a pawn and the other class is the queen. In other matchups, you're the queen and the other class is the pawn. But a pawn can still take a queen. only if the person playing the queen is daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphis Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 OP: You're assuming that all players are equally geared and of course equally leveled. And to that point I agree that there is no game breaking imabalance between classes. However, pvp in this game needs to be renamed gvg (gear vs gear). Gear and stats make too big of a difference, which only promotes the grind. And grind <> fun. Gear also makes it so that a poor player with good gear can easily take out a good player with bad gear. Not balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 only if the person playing the queen is daft. So, 80% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikHar Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Anyone who claims that a class is OP (even tracer-missile spamming, pre-1.2 nerf) is simply a bad player. Period. You hit the nail on the head. You have them running here towels in-hand, crying about other classes being OP. Bad players who don't have a clue. Bet they've done the same thing in other MMO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 SWTOR PvP is NOT rock/paper/scissors AT ALL. Its chess piece A vs. chess piece B. In some matchups, you're a pawn and the other class is the queen. In other matchups, you're the queen and the other class is the pawn. But a pawn can still take a queen. I don't mean it as cut and dry as "tank beats dps, dps beats heals, heals beats tank", etc. But you have got to be out of your mind if you can't recognize that certain classes have natural advantages against others. Like a Sniper killing a Marauder, or a Shadow smashing a Powertech, or a Powertech trolling a Sage, and that Sage murderizing a Sniper. They can be overcome, sure, but that's not saying they don't have the advantages to begin w/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 You hit the nail on the head. You have them running here towels in-hand, crying about other classes being OP. Bad players who don't have a clue. Bet they've done the same thing in other MMO's. I think some players expect to die only occasionally, and when they die a lot in PvP, they think "omg, that class is OP" rather than "I am playing poorly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 No, I just don't suck like most players who think "1v1" means "1v1". I'm good enough to know "1v1" means "hey, look, a tough class for me. My team mate is right over there. *runs to them, enemy following like an idiot* 2v1. Win." If you *don't* play like this, then you are the kind of whiny baby that comes to the forums and QQs about "1v1" in a team-based PvP game. This is disingenuous as hell. Your original post was peppered with "I" and "1v1," but here you're switching gears and claiming team based play as some kind of personal victory. While at the same time still claiming no class is OP (ie, has clear and defineable advantages over any other). No reasonable person reads "1v1" as "if you can't win, kite them into your teammates." What a load of Bantha poodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I agree, I think some times people get focused fire confused and think it was a single sorc or bh or what ever, no one is standing long against focused fire from any combination of attackers. But one target I have killed them and they have killed me, I do not feel any class has a huge advantage over me, Even with my lack of the expertise stat on my new 50, I can still hang in there, might have to work a bit harder, but over all it's not the classes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 When I PvP, I can beat, and get beaten by, any class in the entire game, while playing any class in the entire game. There is no, single class which is OP, or can beat me 100% of the time, or even the majority of the time, nor is there a class I can beat 100% or the majority of the time. Every fight I engage in is either an "opportunistic fight" (i.e. they get jump on me or I get jump on them), or the extremely rare "straight up 1v1". In both cases, opportunistic or 1v1, I can win or lose based on whether I play better than them, or they play better than me, REGARDLESS of what class I'm on, or what class they are on. I have never, ever, ever encountered an OP class in SWTOR, since open beta, not even pre-nerf Scoundrel/Operatives with buff stacking. Anyone who claims that a class is OP (even tracer-missile spamming, pre-1.2 nerf) is simply a bad player. Period. No one with a clue has any problems with any other class, it all comes down to players These boards are simply a testament to the clueless people we have in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enexemander Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Some classes have advantages over others (by design). Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The OP has obviously never played a DPS Commando. ANY melee class with equal gear will dominate a DPS Commando. The two most one sided fights in the game are sentinel v commando and scoundrel v commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 The OP has obviously never played a DPS Commando. ANY melee class with equal gear will dominate a DPS Commando. The two most one sided fights in the game are sentinel v commando and scoundrel v commando. 1. I have a level 50 DPS Commando. 2. I go 50/50 against any other class. Have you tried not sucking so much? I hear it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlanon Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Immortal Jug, have done plenty of 1v1 on Ilum. I can beat any class. Those who do beat me, grats. No complaints here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 You won't have a problem with an Operative or Scoundrel since there are none around anymore. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNegotiator Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 You don't think there are any overpowered classes because you never had time to think about the tracer missiles that just killed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I remember an old Star Trek: Next Gen episode where Data was getting his *** beat in some strategy game against this alien guy. No matter what Data did, he could not beat this guy. Data finally realizes his flaw - trying to win - and changes tactics. Data plays for a stalemate, and the guy cannot beat Data because Data never makes a move to win. The alien eventually just gives up. That is how I play my Sage in group pvp against a class which is hard to beat. As you say, survive, and kite them into my teammates, while wearing a big sign "I'm a weak Sage, come kill me!!1!!one!" Works every time. Oh no... YOU DI'NT! You just didn't quoted a something from star trek in a star wars forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 1. I have a level 50 DPS Commando. 2. I go 50/50 against any other class. Have you tried not sucking so much? I hear it helps. I like you, Zaodon, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way. But I'd love to fight you and see if your Commando can win anywhere even approaching 50/50 against my PT. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 You don't think there are any overpowered classes because you never had time to think about the tracer missiles that just killed you. If you die to tracer missiles, the problem is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geglad Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) "Skill" is when you are good enough to realize your timers are down and adjust your play accordingly. I have won numerous fights when all my CDs were down, and all my opponents CDs were up. Skill is much more relevant in zero-sum game mechanics. SWTOR is not zero-sum. I am not taking anything away from your ability, just an observation. SWTOR relies on a health resource mechanic that is directly affected by gear, cds/abilities, latency, and other players. Even in 1v1 situations, even slight variations in the basic resource toolset of a class can and will often trump skill. Hybridization is an excellent example. Please think also of the various complaints about this game, found so often in every other MMO, for example: "Healers are too powerful." They input a direct increase of the primary resource. "CC needs a good look, there are too many." Controls limit use of a resource, granting a tactical advantage to your opponent. "Stealth is too powerful." Another form of tactical control and managing your opponents resource. And I am sure you could find more. I like to think of it like this - and I am sure given your experience in PvP you are well aware of this already. If an opponent has a greater resource pool than I do, I need to level the playing field by negating a large portion of that resource while minimizing any loss of my own resource pool. If I manage this feat, and all other factors including gear and cd/abilities are equal, much like chess, then I am playing skill for skill against my opponent. If I can not manage it, my opponent has the advantage, and my skill will not only have to overcome his skill, but also his additional resources. This rarely happens, if at all, in a typical MMO enviroment. When it does and I lose, I know for certain that I have lost to lack of skill. In fact, I learn more from these engagements than any other and look forward to them. I enjoy PvP in this game. But it is far from balanced across the 4 classes. And I doubt it ever will be. If I want a real PvP matchup - I play chess. Now THATS some old-school PvP! -Lad Edited April 9, 2012 by Geglad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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