HyperThomas Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Translation- now that all your classes have been nerfed- stop nerfing before you hit my class so that I can get free top rating in season 1. They aren't going to buff the classes they've nerfed hard now- I can guarantee you that until 1.3 we're going to see more shadow/sentinel buffs, and more operative/sorc nerfs. BW hasn't the slightest clue what they're doing when it comes to balance- only thing they're following is forum QQ. If thats what they are doing, following forums QQing, then shadow is next, and then marauder. BTW again, you are way off with that translation, I have always believed that the nerfs we have seen so far have not been justified, (excluding the first operative nerf). Also if you read my posts correctly, sir... you will see that I agree the "hybrid" tank spec needs a slight nerf. Please read before posting comments that wrongly accuse others, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphen Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've said the entire time it was the Shadows / Assassins that need rebalancing. Everyone seemed to keep quiet and keep it under the radar, but the good players knew this for a long time. +1 for a Shadow / Assassin rebalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anstalt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just wondering what exactly people want nerfing about shadows, specifically kinetic combat shadows aka tanks? Is it their damage? KC shadows do poor single target damage. Project doesn't hit for much (~2k average crit), force breach is AoE so on a single target it only hits for ~500 damage non-crit. The class is generally quite force-starved so cant spam double-strike. Our only high-damage skills are spinning strike and telekinetic throw when used with force potency. You can interupt telekinetic throw, even with 3 stacks of harnessed shadows. Is it their defences? KC shadows have worse damage reduction than vanguards and guardians. The only thing we win at is shield chance due to kinetic ward (+15%, 8 charges) but shield chance is fairly useless in pvp and due to the charge mechanism, it doesn't scale in groups. Is it self-healing? Yes, telekinetic throw heals a lot, and can be used frequently. But, it can be interupted so just interupt it! If you interupt, we don't get the heal (or damage) and it will take us another 10-15 seconds before we can use it for a heal again! Is it defensive clickies? We have 2: Resilience (5s immunity to force/tech) and Deflection (12 seconds of +50% parry/deflect chance). Whilst resilience is really powerful when timed right, its only 5 seconds! A good player will either use weapon attacks during that period, kite us or CC us. Deflection is great against marauders and snipers, but useless against virtually everyone else. Hardly overpowered.. I can understand that KC shadows seem overpowered but honestly, they aren't. A good player of virtually any other class will beat a good KC. Just interupt the heal! The only thing that makes KC seem overpowered is the damage they post in warzones. But, thats pure AoE numbers, and its ineffective AoE at that! If the other team has a healer, KC damage can just be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So tell me how do I beat a stealth class with my sniper? It seems the shadow is immune to my pulse and will kill me in about 5 seconds. How do I beat snipers? It seems they are immune to my knockbacks, stuns, and knockdowns and will knock me back whenever I get close to them. Assassins/shadows dominate 1v1 tournaments with good players on both sides. They are the kings of 1v1, and fantastic in groups with all the utilities of a tank spec combined with high damage and mobility that puts operatives to shame. After the nerf cries towards sorcs, tracerspammers, operatives, etc, it's now the turn of assassins. And given the QQ about your class and what happened to all those other classes, expect huge nerfs to your tank spec, like: - dark charge giving a 50% damage penalty - the removal of force shroud (you still have deflection) or removal of disjunction - nerf to energize Something like that would put the shadow/assassin on par with 1.2 operatives. You have NO IDEA. Shadows tanks were BUFFED because they were underperforming. So no they won't be nerfed, not at all, and surely not in the classdestroying way that you propose. Good thing you don't have any say in class balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just wondering what exactly people want nerfing about shadows, specifically kinetic combat shadows aka tanks? Is it their damage? KC shadows do poor single target damage. Project doesn't hit for much (~2k average crit), force breach is AoE so on a single target it only hits for ~500 damage non-crit. The class is generally quite force-starved so cant spam double-strike. Our only high-damage skills are spinning strike and telekinetic throw when used with force potency. You can interupt telekinetic throw, even with 3 stacks of harnessed shadows. Is it their defences? KC shadows have worse damage reduction than vanguards and guardians. The only thing we win at is shield chance due to kinetic ward (+15%, 8 charges) but shield chance is fairly useless in pvp and due to the charge mechanism, it doesn't scale in groups. Is it self-healing? Yes, telekinetic throw heals a lot, and can be used frequently. But, it can be interupted so just interupt it! If you interupt, we don't get the heal (or damage) and it will take us another 10-15 seconds before we can use it for a heal again! Is it defensive clickies? We have 2: Resilience (5s immunity to force/tech) and Deflection (12 seconds of +50% parry/deflect chance). Whilst resilience is really powerful when timed right, its only 5 seconds! A good player will either use weapon attacks during that period, kite us or CC us. Deflection is great against marauders and snipers, but useless against virtually everyone else. Hardly overpowered.. I can understand that KC shadows seem overpowered but honestly, they aren't. A good player of virtually any other class will beat a good KC. Just interupt the heal! The only thing that makes KC seem overpowered is the damage they post in warzones. But, thats pure AoE numbers, and its ineffective AoE at that! If the other team has a healer, KC damage can just be ignored. I agree with a lot of what you said, our "burst" comes with cool downs. When I have recklessness and a relic/adrenal yeah I can burst someone down fairly well, when I have none up the damage is good but I would not call it burst. Dark ward is just pointless in PvP, most damage is tech/force so it does not really help that much and thats why most run with focus over shield generator. Yes we have only 2 real defensive cool downs, nailed it there. Shroud is good but we can still be killed, its not like undying rage which is used when low on health and reduces all damage by 99% not just force and tech. I feel almost like its pointless as our "hybrid" (I do not think a tank in DPS gear is a hybrid but to each there own) is just redic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Why are we discussing nerfing the tank class that is generally regarded as: -Having the worst interrupt in the game? -Having the worst static mitigation of the three tank classes? -Having the worst defensive cooldowns of the three tank classes? -Having the worst single-target damage output of the three tank classes? -Having the worst PvE tanking performance of the three tank classes? -Having the worst "mitigation" effects you could possibly have in PvP (self-healing, which is reduced by a 30% trauma debuff and possibly reduced further by player debuffs)? Is the concern that you have these "tanks" running around in DPS gear and posting high warzone "Total Damage" numbers because of the amount of AoE effects they use? Because, you know, the other two tanks can wear DPS gear and generate much better single-target damage while having much better passive and active defenses... especially Vanguards/Powertechs. Perhaps if the tanking stats actually worked in PvP you would see more tanks wearing gear with tank stats instead of DPS stats. That problem has nothing to do with an specific class, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjashadowdark Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So tell me how do I beat a stealth class with my sniper? It seems the shadow is immune to my pulse and will kill me in about 5 seconds. well first you toss a cookie at him hope he chases it then beat him ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphen Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Why are we discussing nerfing the tank class that is generally regarded as: -Having the worst interrupt in the game? -Having the worst static mitigation of the three tank classes? -Having the worst defensive cooldowns of the three tank classes? -Having the worst single-target damage output of the three tank classes? -Having the worst PvE tanking performance of the three tank classes? -Having the worst "mitigation" effects you could possibly have in PvP (self-healing, which is reduced by a 30% trauma debuff and possibly reduced further by player debuffs)? Is the concern that you have these "tanks" running around in DPS gear and posting high warzone "Total Damage" numbers because of the amount of AoE effects they use? Because, you know, the other two tanks can wear DPS gear and generate much better single-target damage while having much better passive and active defenses... especially Vanguards/Powertechs. Perhaps if the tanking stats actually worked in PvP you would see more tanks wearing gear with tank stats instead of DPS stats. That problem has nothing to do with an specific class, however. Serious posts only please. Shadows have the best of everything, not the worse. Disagree? here, have a 4 second stun that causes all damage, from regardless of who deals it, to inflict 9% more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvnStrSlm Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) i have been playing a shadow since launch and i can tell you they already balanced us. if anything infiltration needs a utility buff. i will say a slight damage reduction should be applied to combat technique. we are not destroyers by any meens but with the hybrid we can pump out some damage. Oh and dont forget most people who re-roll to allegedly OP class are often terrible and to be OP with a shadow you need to be good. they are not easy to play especially balance and inf Edited March 28, 2012 by SvnStrSlm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Serious posts only please. Shadows have the best of everything, not the worse. Disagree? here, have a 4 second stun that causes all damage, from regardless of who deals it, to inflict 9% more damage. Are you joking...you are talking about the skill nerve wracking right? yeah no one really puts points in that skill. We do not have the best of everything also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Serious posts only please. Shadows have the best of everything, not the worse. Disagree? here, have a 4 second stun that causes all damage, from regardless of who deals it, to inflict 9% more damage. 1) Nobody specs that talent 2) Shadows DO HAVE THE WORST INTERRUPT IN THE GAME 3) Shadows have the worst tank mitigation cooldown ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 its ok. according to forums they are perfectly fine . Most Forum players haves so much common sense and aren't delusional .....maybe... no lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) 1) Nobody specs that talent 2) Shadows DO HAVE THE WORST INTERRUPT IN THE GAME 3) Shadows have the worst tank mitigation cooldown ... lol worst interrupt ? wat ?? I'm assuming troll? they have an range interupt, fore pull. stun, and specd for instant force lift interrupt, Knockback. Probably have some more but i don't even play the class and i know this. Yea i got trolled =\ Edited March 28, 2012 by Vyndeta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anstalt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 lol worst interrupt ? wat ?? I'm assuming troll? they have an range interupt, fore pull. stun, and specd for instant force lift interrupt, Knockback. Probably have some more but i don't even play the class and i know this. Yea i got trolled =\ Shadow in combat technique has an interupt on a 12 second cooldown. That is the worst in the game... Sure, our CC can be used to interupt and we certainly have a decent amount of it. In spec being discussed, we have: force stun, spinning kick, force pull, knockback - ignoring force lift due to channel time being longer than cast time of most heals. However, these skills have long cooldowns and are subject to resolve as well as distance issues, so whilst in a 1v1 it might seem like we have tons of interupts, in standard group vs group pvp we just don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xienive Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So many people are sad they can't beat Shadows in 1v1's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 lol worst interrupt ? wat ?? I'm assuming troll? they have an range interupt, fore pull. stun, and specd for instant force lift interrupt, Knockback. Probably have some more but i don't even play the class and i know this. Yea i got trolled =\ An interrupt is off the global cooldown. Jolt is our interrupt. is has 12 seconds cooldown. Every other interrupt has less cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Shadow in combat technique has an interupt on a 12 second cooldown. That is the worst in the game... Sure, our CC can be used to interupt and we certainly have a decent amount of it. In spec being discussed, we have: force stun, spinning kick, force pull, knockback - ignoring force lift due to channel time being longer than cast time of most heals. However, these skills have long cooldowns and are subject to resolve as well as distance issues, so whilst in a 1v1 it might seem like we have tons of interupts, in standard group vs group pvp we just don't. An interrupt is off the global cooldown. Jolt is our interrupt. is has 12 seconds cooldown. Every other interrupt has less cooldown. Oh really? Its no wonder you think what you think. Must say: im soooooooooo glad i dont play any more since BW caters to you guys. Edited March 28, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 An interrupt is off the global cooldown. Jolt is our interrupt. is has 12 seconds cooldown. Every other interrupt has less cooldown. o rly? i play sniper and my interupt Distraction is also ona 12 second cd. I have to use one of my other CC's and fill resolve bar aswell. If ur good at interupting of course U wont let the other player cast anything before there dead... no matter the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 o rly? i play sniper and my interupt Distraction is also ona 12 second cd. I have to use one of my other CC's and fill resolve bar aswell. If ur good at interupting of course U wont let the other player cast anything before there dead... no matter the class. Learn to write before you try to argue with pointless arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 An interrupt is off the global cooldown. Jolt is our interrupt. is has 12 seconds cooldown. Every other interrupt has less cooldown. well everyone but bh/commandos but I thought I heard a dev say thats due to the balancing of classes. But agreed that I feel im always waiting for my jolt to get off cool down. I used to spec into the 2 sec talent reduction but chain shock is just to good to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Learn to write before you try to argue with pointless arguments. Don't b butthurt that i won the argument and know more about ur own class than u do. Cheer up Edited March 28, 2012 by Vyndeta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synacus Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Games not about 1 vs 1 guys I am sorry.No place in the game can you Qup for 1 vs 1 pvp. You could always duel someone I guess not to sure you get gear for that tho. If it makes you feel better sin tanks can't kill healers , well not good ones anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Don't need to b butthurt that i won the argument and know more about ur own class than u do. Cheer up Cheer up? Grow up! Nobody who wants to be taken seriously writes stuff like "u" instead of you, "b" instead of be and scriptkiddy speak like that. ON top of that, you never won any argument. You lost actually. I said Assassins have the worst interrupt. You called me a troll. I told you Assassins have a 12 seconds CD interrupt which makes it the worst. You said "lol no my sniper interrupt is also 12 seconds so u no worst"... Even if 2 things are tied for being the worst they both are still the worst. L2argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Cheer up? Grow up! Nobody who wants to be taken seriously writes stuff like "u" instead of you, "b" instead of be and scriptkiddy speak like that. ON top of that, you never won any argument. You lost actually. I said Assassins have the worst interrupt. You called me a troll. I told you Assassins have a 12 seconds CD interrupt which makes it the worst. You said "lol no my sniper interrupt is also 12 seconds so u no worst"... Even if 2 things are tied for being the worst they both are still the worst. L2argue. Sorry I type with "B" and "u", I forgot I was suppose to be writing a paper for you. Half the Classes have a 12 second interrupt. Scoundrel, Gunslinger, Sage, and Shadows all have a 12 second interrupt. I don't think the interrupt for shadow should be lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeliteninja Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've been running darkness tank since the start. The only time it should be considered OP is when a Hybrid spec was viable. They changed the Dark/Dec Hybrid and even the Dark/Mad. The problem could be Darkness running with DPS gear, but it still is not even that great. I run with survivor gear(almost full BM), and I rarely can hit 2.5k crits. Our only good damage is when we pop recklessness and FL. Any CC can interrupt that ability which screws us over. We do not do enough dps to kill GOOD healers, and its not like we can kill other classes fast. Our job as a tank is fine, regardless one of our main tank abilities is near useless in PVP. The healing makes up for our waste of an ability. The most healing I got was 75K other than that I get like 50K. If I am fighting in a group the most damage I can get is rarely 250K. Asssassins already had their nerf, you just have to know how to kill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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