Combat. Why is it this bad?

[Enexemander]

I'm just wondering what is up with this?

 

Example- set up for Bladestorm- precision, bladerush (for the proc), bladestorm. 3 GCDs, and I'm lucky if it crits for 3k.

 

Am I just doing something wrong?

 

Where is the damage in this spec? Everyone says it's a "burst" spec, but the "burst" is about what other classes do with their normal attacks, no setup required.

[Wuzan]

What's wrong is the combat spec... I don't mean this facetiously either. You will do twice the burst with watchman AND constant dot damage AND self healing AND better survivability.

[Nitrosnwbrdr]

I'm just wondering what is up with this?

 

Example- set up for Bladestorm- precision, bladerush (for the proc), bladestorm. 3 GCDs, and I'm lucky if it crits for 3k.

 

Am I just doing something wrong?

 

Where is the damage in this spec? Everyone says it's a "burst" spec, but the "burst" is about what other classes do with their normal attacks, no setup required.

 

I haven't played Combat in awhile, but I think you're leadup is off... memory serves this is what I did.

 

This is vs Elites since anything lower dies to fast to consider it a rotation no matter the spec.

 

Valorous Call (if you don't have 30 Centering if you do ignore) >Focused Leap > Zealous Strike > Zen > Precision Slash > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Storm.

 

Zen reduces the CD of Blade Rush to .5 seconds. Basically makes it almost an instant attack. You can knock out the 6 stacks of Zen in about 3 seconds putting out a lot of damage.

[Enexemander]

I haven't played Combat in awhile, but I think you're leadup is off... memory serves this is what I did.

 

This is vs Elites since anything lower dies to fast to consider it a rotation no matter the spec.

 

Valorous Call (if you don't have 30 Centering if you do ignore) >Focused Leap > Zealous Strike > Zen > Precision Slash > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Storm.

 

Zen reduces the CD of Blade Rush to .5 seconds. Basically makes it almost an instant attack. You can knock out the 6 stacks of Zen in about 3 seconds putting out a lot of damage.

 

It doesn't actually seem possible to do that, though. The animation will hang if I try to chain blade rushes together that fast and just not fire. :-/

 

Does anyone have any videos of combat being awesome?

Edited March 27, 2012 by Enexemander

[Ainianu]

Valorous Call (if you don't have 30 Centering if you do ignore) >Focused Leap > Zealous Strike > Zen > Precision Slash > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Rush > Blade Storm.

 

I tend to put the blade storm in earlier to get it inside the precision window then continue blade rush spam personally, but it really depends on your targets, if targets are not receiving heals your 'burst' will generally span 2 targets and you will have dispatch and perhaps leap thrown in between (i rarely start a fight with leap, i run up and save leap to jump back after the inevitable knockback tracer/lightning spammers do)

 

and OP if your barely breaking 3k on blade storm under precision, you have a very very poor power/surge on your gear (this is level 50 bracket right?)

 

My blade storms usually crit for 3500 - 3800 ish under precision. (but that is in battlemaster/champion gear mix) (Edit: ive broke 5k on blade storms with optimal conditions also, ie poor geared target, adrenal/relic on and a expertise power up)

 

you really want to be aiming for 70-80% on your crit multiplier via surge, and stacking all the power you can.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Ainianu

[Enexemander]

I have 71% surge on my gear, but my power is lacking (I have mostly centurion with champ weapons and gloves/helm.)

 

I'd still like to see evidence of combat being great. I am sick to death of Watchman, but it just feels like this spec under performs at what it should do well: Burst.

[Mastr_KB]

I'm just wondering what is up with this?

 

Example- set up for Bladestorm- precision, bladerush (for the proc), bladestorm. 3 GCDs, and I'm lucky if it crits for 3k.

 

Am I just doing something wrong?

 

Where is the damage in this spec? Everyone says it's a "burst" spec, but the "burst" is about what other classes do with their normal attacks, no setup required.

 

I call it "the ramp"--we have to do a lot just to get decent dps. we have to build focus and centering, procs, adrenals, relics...if you get to this point, yes you have a chance--but the real kick in the pants is that unless you're fighting noobs that don't know how to CC, you will be lucky if you get your BR and BS within your PS window of opportunity.

 

You have to choose the best time to use your CD's when in battle, not just to chain together high damage, but to make sure they aren't wasted on a "no win" situation...like if you're getting force lightning attacked by 2 or 3 sorcerers while stunned, and you have no healer--best you can do is stall for time to keep them from capping using defensive CD's, but if your team is already there and you're still being focussed, then I'd die rather than burn a CD--again, in a "no win" situation. I find the best time to fully ramp up is when I'm solo watching a door/turret and an imp tries tries to sneak up and cap...1 on 1, even with our ridiculous ramp, we can go toe to toe with pretty much anyone equally geared...however, my track record with healers is terrible 1 on 1--I get close sometimes, but I can never seem to get the right combination of damage + interrupts chained together to solo them.

 

I don't recall my highest crit in Combat spec, but I haven't paid much attention to my stats until recently...at first I just chose endurance and crit without thinking about it, now I'm reading that surge is what makes a crit worthwhile and so on and so on...so if I ever log back in again, I'll try to find the proper balance between crit, surge, and power...screw endurance, I never lasted long anyway.

[TristQueloon]

Im only level 43, in the 40 pvp gear, and im breaking 300k damage in warzones. Ive rarely if even seen anyone do that on my server in the under 50 bracket. And yes, im combat spec.

 

My basic "rotation" (combat doesnt really use a rotation, its an adapt to the situation type of build).

 

1. Run up if you expect a knockback so you can leap back, or leap if there not a knockbacker

2. Zealous Strike

3. Bladerush (I hit bladerush once here to get a guaranteed combat trance up)

4. Precision Strike (start my 100% armor debuff)

5. Master Strike (Master strike with the immobolize has always worked for me, guess im just lucky, plus with precision up it does massive dmg)

6. Power Relic + BladeStorm ( if done correctly your bladestorm will go off before precision and combat trance fall off).

 

For me, in the under 50 bracket, this 1 "rotation" takes the majority of players I face to 1/3 hp.

 

 

Also, combat is a bit different from watchman. Watchman you normally get your burns up and then just strike till you can apply burns. In Combat I love to bladerush spam. Between leap and the Zealous Strike cooldown reduction, I always have high focus. So when everything is off cooldown, I bladerush like no tomorrow. When focus gets to about 1/3 of the way down, and things are still on cooldown, enter "neutral" zone of just strike, bladerush, strike, bladerush etc.

 

 

Seriously just bladerushing more added close to 40k more damage at the end of the round then when I wasnt doing it.

 

You also need to use your control alot more than watchman. Combat is about controlling the battle, not just the dps. Immobilize on saber throw, ataru givinging you 15% speed boost, fleetfooted breaking snares. You should always be on target, and always messing with peoples ability to do what they want.

[Crawelc]

Im only level 43, in the 40 pvp gear, and im breaking 300k damage in warzones. Ive rarely if even seen anyone do that on my server in the under 50 bracket. And yes, im combat spec.

 

My basic "rotation" (combat doesnt really use a rotation, its an adapt to the situation type of build).

 

1. Run up if you expect a knockback so you can leap back, or leap if there not a knockbacker

2. Zealous Strike

3. Bladerush (I hit bladerush once here to get a guaranteed combat trance up)

4. Precision Strike (start my 100% armor debuff)

5. Master Strike (Master strike with the immobolize has always worked for me, guess im just lucky, plus with precision up it does massive dmg)

6. Power Relic + BladeStorm ( if done correctly your bladestorm will go off before precision and combat trance fall off).

 

For me, in the under 50 bracket, this 1 "rotation" takes the majority of players I face to 1/3 hp.

 

 

Also, combat is a bit different from watchman. Watchman you normally get your burns up and then just strike till you can apply burns. In Combat I love to bladerush spam. Between leap and the Zealous Strike cooldown reduction, I always have high focus. So when everything is off cooldown, I bladerush like no tomorrow. When focus gets to about 1/3 of the way down, and things are still on cooldown, enter "neutral" zone of just strike, bladerush, strike, bladerush etc.

 

 

Seriously just bladerushing more added close to 40k more damage at the end of the round then when I wasnt doing it.

 

You also need to use your control alot more than watchman. Combat is about controlling the battle, not just the dps. Immobilize on saber throw, ataru givinging you 15% speed boost, fleetfooted breaking snares. You should always be on target, and always messing with peoples ability to do what they want.

 

^This, if I was able to write long well thought out posts I could have said that word for word. That is exactly the way i play Combat. Although I probably lose 40k because of trying to slow/root alot and not spamming bladerush as much as I should. Also never had a problem with root on masterstrike so 2 lucky people.

[TristQueloon]

And ofcourse precision + zen, bladerush till last bit of focus and then BladeStorm. Forgot to add that.

 

Also, about Bladerush hanging.

 

goto Options/Controls and change your ability queque to .75 or 1. For some reason this fixes alot of the swing lag people were having.

 

My hangups was terrible. Changed it to .75 and it got alot better. Still not perfect, but better. I still have a bit but not much, now it goes BR, BR, slight hang, BR, BR, slight hang, BR,BR etc.

 

Apparently reports for Test Center say with 1.2 the animation no longer hangs and fires off as fast as its suppossed too.

Edited March 27, 2012 by TristQueloon

[Jiayuan]

I've played Combat til BM before I succumbed to respec-ing as a Watchman.

 

As combat, I found it easier to stick on 1 target due to the multiple roots that you have. However, this still does not make up for the less contact time that the Watchman needs to apply DoTs.

 

Some problems with Combat in PvP especially is that the Ataru proc doesn't always hit before target runs out of range. Also, MS frequently triggers the animation but doesn't actually hit the target. This results in a self-imposed root. When it hits the root on target works as intended, but this can however be interrupted or knockback.

 

As watchman I'm doing at least 30% more dmg than I ever did as Combat, and I've only just started out as Watchman. (This means unfamiliar keybinds and frequent frantic hitting of wrong keys...)

[Zenmar]

Played combat for two months, loved the playstyle, but I'm not coming back. Watchman is superior in every aspect. It's a bit more difficult, but more rewarding too. People that say Combat is on par with Watchman never played Watchman, or played with very bad Watchman friends.

 

When they first told me Watchman was better i was skeptical, but they were right. Atm, Combat is useless compared to it.

[TristQueloon]

People that say Combat is on par with Watchman never played Watchman, or played with very bad Watchman friends.

 

Ive been advocating Combat for quite some time. However blanket statements like that are just plain wrong.

 

I Started out as watchman. From a PvP Aspect, I did more overall damage in watchman, on the scoreboard I got more kills, but thats only because anyone you damage who dies while your alive counts on that scoreboard. As far as people who I actually killed, on my own, Combat is a head by far.

 

In the world of PvP, Burst is king. People think Watchman is just as bursty as Combat, but its not really. Yes you can get 5k merc slashes, but I do the same with BladeStorm plus an ataru hit, and then follow it up with more bladerushes, a master strike, root you, another bladestorm, etc.

 

Combat takes out people in short term PvP Battles, faster than watchman does. Ive never lost to a watchman sent/mara on my server. Ive always been able to burst them down to death before the dots have taken me out. And thats with them using merc slash as well.

 

 

Im not here to say Combat is better, the end all of PvP, hail to me your god. But I am here to say quite pretending that everyone but Watchman is not even worth playing. You say anyone that doesnt like watchman just must be a bad player. Ever think maybe you just suck at Combat Spec?

Edited March 28, 2012 by TristQueloon

[Derian]

Ive been advocating Combat for quite some time. However blanket statements like that are just plain wrong.

 

I Started out as watchman. From a PvP Aspect, I did more overall damage in watchman, on the scoreboard I got more kills, but thats only because anyone you damage who dies while your alive counts on that scoreboard. As far as people who I actually killed, on my own, Combat is a head by far.

 

In the world of PvP, Burst is king. People think Watchman is just as bursty as Combat, but its not really. Yes you can get 5k merc slashes, but I do the same with BladeStorm plus an ataru hit, and then follow it up with more bladerushes, a master strike, root you, another bladestorm, etc.

 

Combat takes out people in short term PvP Battles, faster than watchman does. Ive never lost to a watchman sent/mara on my server. Ive always been able to burst them down to death before the dots have taken me out. And thats with them using merc slash as well.

 

 

Im not here to say Combat is better, the end all of PvP, hail to me your god. But I am here to say quite pretending that everyone but Watchman is not even worth playing. You say anyone that doesnt like watchman just must be a bad player. Ever think maybe you just suck at Combat Spec?

 

Did combat for six weeks, went watchman, won't go back. You also said you just strike with watchman until you can apply burns. Apparently you weren't playing watchman right because that's a horrible way to play it. Combat is not as good as watchman, period. Stop fooling yourselves. I understand people may like it more because it fits how they want to play, but facts is facts, it underperforms greatly. It also lacks the whole healing your team thing. Don't be silly to think Combat is any where near on par.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Derian

[Russianzombie]

How is Combat going to be vs Watchman post 1.2 patch? better? worse? is generally the same?

[Shakydvs]

10% increase in damage overall while it helps will still put it down lower than watchman, however people should understand that its all about playing what you enjoy.

 

That being said though combat needs something else to help it, currently watchman is just too good, great burst, dots that tick for huge amounts, increased survivability, brings more to the plate with group healing.

 

if you ask what combat brings to the table....... burst and...... yup thats it.

 

Hope that helps.

[Ainianu]

Ive been advocating Combat for quite some time. However blanket statements like that are just plain wrong.

 

I Started out as watchman. From a PvP Aspect, I did more overall damage in watchman, on the scoreboard I got more kills, but thats only because anyone you damage who dies while your alive counts on that scoreboard. As far as people who I actually killed, on my own, Combat is a head by far.

 

In the world of PvP, Burst is king. People think Watchman is just as bursty as Combat, but its not really. Yes you can get 5k merc slashes, but I do the same with BladeStorm plus an ataru hit, and then follow it up with more bladerushes, a master strike, root you, another bladestorm, etc.

 

Combat takes out people in short term PvP Battles, faster than watchman does. Ive never lost to a watchman sent/mara on my server. Ive always been able to burst them down to death before the dots have taken me out. And thats with them using merc slash as well.

 

 

Im not here to say Combat is better, the end all of PvP, hail to me your god. But I am here to say quite pretending that everyone but Watchman is not even worth playing. You say anyone that doesnt like watchman just must be a bad player. Ever think maybe you just suck at Combat Spec?

 

This i agree with, as a combat spec player myself (well most of the time, i have played other two a bit and whilst i see benefits of both i just find combat fits what i want to do better, i just respec a bit every week to experiment with other builds in all tree's)

 

the blanket statement about people who like combat have never played watchman is very silly I find that infact most watchman players are the ones that have not experimented they will go with a spec they are told 'is the best' by others who was told the same thing and just accept it and play it as it is.

 

Now... Watchman is a good spec but it is not the only viable and good spec, and if there is other good and viable spec's it really does not invalidate peoples precious watchman spec so dont be scared!

 

now as to the question about combat in 1.2... it is getting better for sure, mainly down to a few bug fixes and more fluid animations. The transcendance speed boost is being moved from watchman to combat and overall the 3 spec's are a lot better balanced, the Combats 'out of zen' time is going to be reduced due to faster zens and that will mean more bursts and more awesome! The spec's will be more obvious to what they are intended where the dps on combat seems improved further to account for the watchmans survivability.

 

essentially the balance between the spec's will just be a lot better.