SWTOR. Too much theme park?

[Tuscad]

lol i read the choices you made up.

 

very jaded responses its either

 

option 1 - I'm a fanboy

option 2 - i want a sandbox

option 3 - i'm a fanboy

option 4 - exact same as option 3

 

where's the unbiased polls? how about

 

option 1 - i prefer theam park

option 2 - i like sandbox

 

I voted for SWG 2.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Could the "themepark is great/sandbox sucks poster" please in own words explain both concepts and why sandbox is completely awful and why themepark is the best thing since sliced bread, and why a hybrid MMO would not be possible.

 

Who says story/cutscenes are not possible in a sandbox?

Who says flashpoints and warzones are not possible in a sandbox?

Who says Raids/Operations would not be possible in a sandbox?

 

Do you realize that the empty server problems could never happen in a sandbox because they are connected in a shard system?

 

Do you realize that the heavy instancing is necessary because of way too small planet maps, with only one small city area per "planet" which would never offer enough space for so many people in a sandbox?

 

Do you realize that theme park design is a lot less work and less game design effort than creating a lifelike, believable sandbox universe?

Edited April 3, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Goretzu]

I’m an old dude. I know bupkis about technology. But, here goes…

 

I honestly don’t get the problem with a loading screen. When I tab out, and come back, even when the loading screen goes away, my computer is still rendering the world. It’s black. Then I see the outline of the buildings. Then I get full light. Eventually, I get the textures.

 

Presumably, the loading screen is to hide all that. (I still see it because I have a really crappy computer that’s slow).

 

Would people be happier if there we no load screens, and, because of the engine, they sit there seeing the world get rendered bit by bit? (I’m assuming the problem is on TOR’s engine’s end as some board posters say, other games are fine and fast on their computer). Is it less immersion breaking to see Coruscant, say, rendered like a stick figure, then coloured in, then textures?

 

Or, is it something else? It’s an honest question. Note you’re talking to a guy that still uses VCR tapes, so, I’m actually asking PLEASE talk down to me very slowly. Not ironic. I won’t get it otherwise.

 

(Sidebar = You’re talking to a guy that thinks shadows of any kind in a game are “fluff”, to give you the level of tech impairment I have…)

 

Anyways, I’d be happy to understand the problem with load screens. (Tons of them in EQ and COH… my only prior experience…and they don't bother me at all. It's not immersive. It's a necessary (?) evil. I least how I understand them.)

 

 

No I mean people that when faced with the criticism that, say, orbital stations and such were basically an artefact of the story telling cutscene system (which you then had to live with forever after the one time they were actually used) tried to claim that said extra loading screen were there for extra immersion.

 

SWTOR is bizarre in that, epecially in the first few months, you couldn't criticise any aspect of the game (no matter how constructively) without being mobbed.

 

Even stuff that was later changed to be pretty good (the cool down system) was orginally defended like it was the second comming.

 

There were quite a lot of suggestions about how those loading screens could be mitigated, but sadly I think most people have now either left or just got used to them (ironically a lot of the "defenders" seem to have left the game now too).

 

But people trying to claim they were somehow an improvement over older MMORPGs were just being well..... silly and frankly hurting SWTOR (the cool down system would never have been changed to be as good as it is, if those same people had been listened too).

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[thominoh]

My issue isn't that there is too much theme park.. The first time on the ride was great, second time is OK.. but with more alts, I've had it doing the general non-class quest.. I wish there was equal alternatives that are more sandbox.. It would be easy to take what is in play now, and add sandbox similar play without a lot of effort..

 

We currently have 2 and 4 person heroics.. REMOVE the limit of once a day.. In addition add a few more NPC's that act as "repeatable" quest givers.. Create a new type of currency similar to commendations that drop randomly that these quest givers will take in exchange of rewards (EXP included).. There are more details I won't get into for the sake of time and space.. But riding the same theme park ride more then twice is not cool..

[Skarus]

SWtOR can't move away from being themepark, but the Endgame can!

 

Best way to do this is to improve World PvP or better do RvR for Endgame.

Add a new big open Planet with varied landscapes (and not an ugly "ice prison" like illum) which is open for World PvP.

Add claimable Buildings, Dungeons, resource gathering points.

Next step add good craftable high level armor.

 

That can be a first step.

[mattgyver]

SWtOR can't move away from being themepark, but the Endgame can!

 

Best way to do this is to improve World PvP or better do RvR for Endgame.

Add a new big open Planet with varied landscapes (and not an ugly "ice prison" like illum) which is open for World PvP.

Add claimable Buildings, Dungeons, resource gathering points.

Next step add good craftable high level armor.

 

That can be a first step.

 

Your post encapsulates how I feel: Endgame going forward can have more options.

Edited April 3, 2012 by mattgyver

[thominoh]

SWtOR can't move away from being themepark, but the Endgame can!

 

Best way to do this is to improve World PvP or better do RvR for Endgame.

Add a new big open Planet with varied landscapes (and not an ugly "ice prison" like illum) which is open for World PvP.

Add claimable Buildings, Dungeons, resource gathering points.

Next step add good craftable high level armor.

 

That can be a first step.

 

I wanted to elaborate more on this.. This too I had thought of as well.. One Huge planet similar to Tatooine for example.. Each faction has their own "city" in which to gather resources to build and improve their city.. Which could be NPC vendors, trainers, guards etc etc.. To build up your city players must either solo or group up and head into the NON PvP open world to gather resources and defeat mobs etc etc.. Bring back those resources and donate them to the city in exchange for gear , credits, etc etc..

 

For those PvPer's out there.. Give them the ability to kill and destroy what the other side accomplished.. or STEAL their riches from the banks.. If the IMP's raid the Rebel city they become TEF PvP.. If they kill YOUR vendors those vendors stay dead for a certain time.. 24hrs? 48hrs or a week? UNLESS you go back out and gather the needed to resources to replace them sooner..

 

This gives end game a RvR feel to it.. I'd rather do this, then do raid grinds

[Goretzu]

Ah. Ok thanks. That’s clearer now.

 

I wonder how much the fact that it’s a Star Wars IP factors into how vehement people are when it comes to defending the game. I wonder if Star Trek online had the same problem.

 

And, even as a near technophobe old guy, I can tell how some of the tech problems came about, like you described.

 

For example, in about 3-4 quest givers on Nar Shaddaa, if you click on them after getting the quest talk, instead of a sound byte of the “Go do the quest, I’m waiting” type that happens when you re-click on a quest giver…

 

...I get a “cutscene” of the quest giver telling me the “hurry up” sound bite. I’m almost certain that’s a holdover for when they were “all” animated, instead of a sound bite, or at least it was tested on Nar Shaddaa… and then it was thought way too much trouble / too long and removed. But they forgot a few. That’s a left over artifact. I’m almost sure of it.

 

I’m a big defender of the game, but even I can guess as to why the orbital stations are there. Simply = so they can recycle the animation of a ship leaving the station, instead of making a new animation of the ship leaving the planet.

 

I can’t know for sure, but that’s “cutting corners” for me. Just like the “oompa loompa” alien-speak is a way to cut corners on all those side quest VO work for a game whose selling point is the VO.

 

And I’ll admit I’m probably part of the problem when it comes to innovation in game design. I’ve never played WoW, but I did play CoH. It was a heavily solo focused game with a story emphasis. I see TOR as a reskinned CoH with VO and a SW IP. That’s good enough for me, though I understand why it’s not for other people.

 

Good enough is, well, good enough for me. I’m not part of the customer pool that expects a better burger. It probably makes me a sucker, or at the very least, undiscerning.

 

On top of all that, board posters have to deal with casual people like myself (to take an example) that an ability delay is no big deal. It doesn’t click? Click again. Done. Which is no problem when doing quests 2-3 levels below you like I tend to do. It’s Game Breaking when it comes to PVP, Raids, and the like. That’s the part “my side”, so to speak, doesn’t realise.

 

So, in simple, thanks for voicing your opinion, and for helping to fix parts of the game like ability delay. It’s appreciated. Honestly thanks…

 

 

 

 

I've no idea what it is, and things have calmed down now bit from the early days, where literally if you said anything that wasn't 100% gushing you were surrounded by rabid mob claiming everything was utterly perfect.

 

The strange thing is many of those very people seem to have quit now.

 

 

At the moment SWTOR is a good game, but it's still flawed, and it's not a great game. Loads of things need fixing and improving, some quit urgently (like RvR - which is actually effectively being removed with 1.2) and some with more long term effect (like Space Combat - this was another thing people claimed was utterly perfect, but pretty much everyone has now realised isn't).

 

 

As well as other little stuff like being able to taxi straight back to your ship or quick travel back to your ship (and I still don't see why Fleet Pass is security key vendor only).

[Darth_Moonshadow]

you mean a game that is designed to be theme park, is too theme park?

 

that is like saying tekken has too much fighting

 

or

 

grand turismo has too much driving.

 

if this game feels too theme park-y, i would say the devs have done the job they set out to do

 

Tekken does have too much fighting. It needs more beach volleyball.

[Bluerodian]

While not something that can be done now, for future expansions I would like to see Bioware take the approach that EQ2 used. Instead of just bolting more content on top, add new content throughout the leveling process.

 

As it stands right now, once you leave your starter planet you have only one path. Perhaps at points you get choices about where to level. Will you go to Balmorra, or Rodia? Both worlds would have their own planet stories and more importantly would cause a branch in the class story.

 

Once done there, you get to choose between Nar Shadda, Sullust, or Yavin which would creates another story branch. This way two players of the same class would not necessarily have the same experience.

 

Further on, it could be expanded to cover whole systems to choose from much further down the road. For instance, you would get to choose to finish out leveling on Corellia, Talus, Tralus, Drall, Selonia, or Centerpoint Station.

 

Giving some more options would help a lot with the rigid structure of the game.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Bluerodian

[DalrisThane]

Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane

[Lord_Karsk]

Yeah the whole game is on rails. No freedom to just wonder of, then you will very fast hit the wall of doom killing you . And wander 5 meters of the road then you will crash into the 6 000 000 copy paste mobs waiting for you.

 

I was actually one of those before the game came out thinking, finally a mmo with huge

open worlds were players can explore... yeah right.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Lord_Karsk

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Some say, people who visit forums are not representative, but...

 

9% like the TOR concept as it is right now.

 

46% would prefer a less linear, themepark/sandbox hybrid concept.

 

39% would prefer a full sandbox game based on the SWG concept.

 

5% don´t care and play everything which is based on "Star Wars".

 

 

 

That means 14% of current subscribers are the core audience who will most likely keep their subscription.

 

So if there are 1.7 M subscribers, that number could go as low as 238.000 -- pretty shocking.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Goretzu]

SWtOR can't move away from being themepark, but the Endgame can!

 

Best way to do this is to improve World PvP or better do RvR for Endgame.

Add a new big open Planet with varied landscapes (and not an ugly "ice prison" like illum) which is open for World PvP.

Add claimable Buildings, Dungeons, resource gathering points.

Next step add good craftable high level armor.

 

That can be a first step.

 

 

Yeah I was sort of expecting this with Ilum.

 

But it's not even Alterac Valley, which is strange when you consider that Mythic Devs at Bioware and that Bioware itself was running Warhammer Online for a good 20 months before SWTOR went Live.

 

A decent bit of RvR is one of the easiest "sand-box" features to include.

[Goretzu]

Yeah the whole game is on rails. No freedom to just wonder of, then you will very fast hit the wall of doom killing you . And wander 5 meters of the road then you will crash into the 6 000 000 copy paste mobs waiting for you.

 

I was actually one of those before the game came out thinking, finally a mmo with huge

open worlds were players can explore... yeah right.

 

 

 

Much of that can still be added, they've just got to do it quickly enough.