Vette and 1.2 Global Companion Unlocks

[MaterTenebrarum]

From http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?article=1-2-legacy-system-preview#2:

 

These icons are for each of your 5 companions! You can unlock lock each one of them by completing all conversations and quests for that companion. First companion to be unlocked of a specific type (melee rank, healer, melee damage, ranged tank, ranged damage) will grant a bonus to a stat and increase the duration of your heroic moment by 12 seconds and reduce the cooldown by 1 minute. Unlocking further companions of the same type will grant a +10 presence bonus on all your legacy characters instead.

 

Melee tank companion – grant bonus to accuracy stat

Ranged tank companion – grant bonus to Max HP

Melee damage companion – grant bonus to surge

Healer companion – grant bonus to healing received

Ranged damage companion – grant bonus to crit chance

 

In case your are wondering, you have 5 companions and they each belong to a specific type. For example - Inquisitors: Xalek is a ranged tank, Khem is a melee tank, Ashara is a melee damage, Andronikos is a ranged damage, and Talos is healer.

 

At present, if a player chooses not to free Vette, her storyline derails into an infinite loop of her asking for freedom, which many Sith Warrior players feel, for a variety of reasons, is not appropriate for their SW (or, for that matter, Darth Vader, the iconic character upon which the class was based). As of 1.2, this goes a step further, and not freeing Vette provides a clear mechanical penalty.

 

To my knowledge, Vette is the only companion who forces a player into a "right" choice to continue their storyline, even if the choice is diametrically opposed to everything else the player's character would do. Is BioWare going to address this, or are Sith Warriors who cleave too close to the ideal going to remain penalized for it?

[Crawelc]

Wow great question man, I freed her on my mara simply cause i like to max companion affection, but people who either heavy RP or just want to stay true to their class do seem to be gimped by this.

[Cbrinegar]

From http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?article=1-2-legacy-system-preview#2:

 

 

 

At present, if a player chooses not to free Vette, her storyline derails into an infinite loop of her asking for freedom, which many Sith Warrior players feel, for a variety of reasons, is not appropriate for their SW (or, for that matter, Darth Vader, the iconic character upon which the class was based). As of 1.2, this goes a step further, and not freeing Vette provides a clear mechanical penalty.

 

To my knowledge, Vette is the only companion who forces a player into a "right" choice to continue their storyline, even if the choice is diametrically opposed to everything else the player's character would do. Is BioWare going to address this, or are Sith Warriors who cleave too close to the ideal going to remain penalized for it?

 

Even Darth Vader didnt kill EVERYTIME, When the rebels were attempting to infiltrate the second Deathstar he sensed his son, and let the entire ship pass. Now yes he eventually got what he wanted but he could have simply put the shuttle in a tractor beam and got luke that way, but instead he chose to allow the whole shuttle to go FREE to Endor.

 

So therefore its not unbelievable a sith would allow someones freedom if it advanced their own agenda.

[DawnAskham]

From http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?article=1-2-legacy-system-preview#2:

 

 

 

At present, if a player chooses not to free Vette, her storyline derails into an infinite loop of her asking for freedom, which many Sith Warrior players feel, for a variety of reasons, is not appropriate for their SW (or, for that matter, Darth Vader, the iconic character upon which the class was based). As of 1.2, this goes a step further, and not freeing Vette provides a clear mechanical penalty.

 

To my knowledge, Vette is the only companion who forces a player into a "right" choice to continue their storyline, even if the choice is diametrically opposed to everything else the player's character would do. Is BioWare going to address this, or are Sith Warriors who cleave too close to the ideal going to remain penalized for it?

 

It is things like this that show how the illusion of choice in this game is just that, an illusion.

 

The worst for me so far was playing a neutral aligned BH, where I was penalized over and over with things like quest rewards and alignment vendor items that would not work for me simply because I played the game MY WAY.

 

Sad to say, I have since figured out what 'choices' I need to make to max alignment or max companion affection, and I take the 'right' choice rather than my choice as I've found it better to forgo my choice over having a gimped companion or a gimped character.

 

All of which IMO makes having the choices in the game pointless, as you are only given a Hobson's choice, unless you don't mind gimping yourself.

 

Maybe there is hope for the future though as they have started removing the alignment requirement from items, though I haven't seen anything that would allow you to maintain your personal choice with regards to your companion and not be penalized if it isn't what they put into the game for the 'right' choices.

[MaterTenebrarum]

Even Darth Vader didnt kill EVERYTIME, When the rebels were attempting to infiltrate the second Deathstar he sensed his son, and let the entire ship pass. Now yes he eventually got what he wanted but he could have simply put the shuttle in a tractor beam and got luke that way, but instead he chose to allow the whole shuttle to go FREE to Endor.

 

So therefore its not unbelievable a sith would allow someones freedom if it advanced their own agenda.

 

The problem here is, freeing Vette doesn't advance the Sith Warrior's agenda in any way visible in-game, and I have a hard time believing Vader in particular would be inclined to do much more than force choke Vette for giving him lip. The only reason for many to do it right now is metagaming, which ruins the immersion and story that BioWare's so justifiably famed for providing.

[Elear]

You gain bonus for following companion storyline. If you're 'heavy RP or just want to stay true to your class' and don't want to free her, you also don't want to follow her storyline. You are forced to make that coice in order to advance her story, but at least are given that choice.

 

By not making that choice, you still can get this bonus. Crit bonus by following story with any other ranged dps companion. Presence by making new warrior and only forcing her storyline. If one is such hardcore minmaxer that can't pass on 10 presence, it shouldn't be a problem.

[CutlassJack]

The problem here is, freeing Vette doesn't advance the Sith Warrior's agenda in any way visible in-game, and I have a hard time believing Vader in particular would be inclined to do much more than force choke Vette for giving him lip. The only reason for many to do it right now is metagaming, which ruins the immersion and story that BioWare's so justifiably famed for providing.

 

Does leaving the collar on advance the Sith Warrior's 'agenda' in any visible way? Does removing it deter it in any visible way?

 

Going by the Vader example, he didnt use a shock collar to control anyone. He used fear and power. Removing the collar doesnt mean you free her. Especially since there's a line where you can warn her not to give you an excuse to put it back on.

 

A 'true' sith lord wouldnt need a collar. The only reason to leave it on is to be a jerk. Its also worth pointing out you can't force choke other companions of yours who do alot worse than give you lip.

 

If anything removing the collar to gain bonuses is not metagaming at all. Her morale improves and she makes your team more effective as a result. Leaving it on and pumping her full of gifts to make up for treating her shabbily so you can get her friendship dialogues and bonus is far more immersion breaking.

 

Should there be an alternative non-frienship path for her? Sure, but that's true of every companion without exception. I'd love one with Quinn myself. Has nothing to do with the collar. I'd put Vette's old collar on him if I could.

[Vlakrar]

I never got the "lore blah blah blah Vette must be kept contained" type argument.

 

I mean, love does crazy stuff to everyone, and it's not unreasonable to assume your character "could" be swayed by her

 

Is it a punishment for keeping her locked up, sure it is. Is it then end of the world you can't have Vette on your companion buff list, hell no. There are plenty of other's that fulfil her role

 

[MaterTenebrarum]

You gain bonus for following companion storyline. If you're 'heavy RP or just want to stay true to your class' and don't want to free her, you also don't want to follow her storyline. You are forced to make that coice in order to advance her story, but at least are given that choice.

 

It's a false choice -- the only option is to free her, or to be asked to free her again ad infinitum. It's also mind-boggling that a class designed after Vader would penalize you for emulating Vader.

 

Given, too, that other characters have branching options, it's not reasonable to argue that a player should break their own characterization to serve Vette's. BioWare's storylines place a focus on giving players freedom, but this story is nothing but constraint.

 

By not making that choice, you still can get this bonus. Crit bonus by following story with any other ranged dps companion. Presence by making new warrior and only forcing her storyline. If one is such hardcore minmaxer that can't pass on 10 presence, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

My point is that we shouldn't be in this position. BioWare has a variety of options besides forcing a Sith Warrior player to break character.

[drosalion]

Does leaving the collar on advance the Sith Warrior's 'agenda' in any visible way? Does removing it deter it in any visible way?

 

Going by the Vader example, he didnt use a shock collar to control anyone. He used fear and power. Removing the collar doesnt mean you free her. Especially since there's a line where you can warn her not to give you an excuse to put it back on.

 

A 'true' sith lord wouldnt need a collar. The only reason to leave it on is to be a jerk. Its also worth pointing out you can't force choke other companions of yours who do alot worse than give you lip.

 

If anything removing the collar to gain bonuses is not metagaming at all. Her morale improves and she makes your team more effective as a result. Leaving it on and pumping her full of gifts to make up for treating her shabbily so you can get her friendship dialogues and bonus is far more immersion breaking.

 

Should there be an alternative non-frienship path for her? Sure, but that's true of every companion without exception. I'd love one with Quinn myself. Has nothing to do with the collar. I'd put Vette's old collar on him if I could.

 

completely agreed, well said

[Cerion]

The problem here is, freeing Vette doesn't advance the Sith Warrior's agenda in any way visible in-game, and I have a hard time believing Vader in particular would be inclined to do much more than force choke Vette for giving him lip. The only reason for many to do it right now is metagaming, which ruins the immersion and story that BioWare's so justifiably famed for providing.

 

Sure it does. She's a powerful ally. And now 1.2 will provide even more incentive. You do realize Vette was in prison for assassinating something like 12 people, right? She's not so pure in light as people like to imagine she is.

 

So if all of this wasn't enough in the past to advance the Warrior's agenda, you'll now have that visible in-game mechanic in 1.2.

 

Also, yours is not the only companion. Jedi Knights have Scourge who is typically opposed to anything the Light Side Jedi would do. If you're a LS Jedi, you're likely going to have large affection deficit with him, thus preventing the advance of his story. Of course, like Vette, there's a mechanical way to solve that. With Vette, you unlock her collar...with Scourge, you buy/give him tons of companion gifts.

 

Finally, if you really want the ranged dps unlock, you can do that on another character in your legacy. Thus you'll only be missing the +10 presence from Vette if you absolutely refuse to release her.

[NermalDetonator]

From http://mmo-mechanics.com/news.php?article=1-2-legacy-system-preview#2:

 

 

 

At present, if a player chooses not to free Vette, her storyline derails into an infinite loop of her asking for freedom, which many Sith Warrior players feel, for a variety of reasons, is not appropriate for their SW (or, for that matter, Darth Vader, the iconic character upon which the class was based). As of 1.2, this goes a step further, and not freeing Vette provides a clear mechanical penalty.

 

To my knowledge, Vette is the only companion who forces a player into a "right" choice to continue their storyline, even if the choice is diametrically opposed to everything else the player's character would do. Is BioWare going to address this, or are Sith Warriors who cleave too close to the ideal going to remain penalized for it?

 

Yes, if you choose not to treat your companion well, you dont get the benefit. Same as if you choose not to max out their affection.

 

Either you value her, or you dont. If the little "Lol, I'm teh evulss!" kids want to treat her like crap and keep her in a shock collar, she doesnt tell you about her family, etc. Pretend you killed her off or something and dont use her on missions or in combat. But this incessent whining about wanting some kind of torture sim in the game to "break her" is stupid, offensive, and a bit sexist, because I dont see any similar threads about wanting to break Pierce's arrogant spirit...

 

It would be like me whining that I dont want to do Darth Baras' bidding, so why am I penalized for not doing my class quest storyline?

[NermalDetonator]

The problem here is, freeing Vette doesn't advance the Sith Warrior's agenda in any way visible in-game, and I have a hard time believing Vader in particular would be inclined to do much more than force choke Vette for giving him lip.

 

Or maybe he would respect her honesty and fierce spirit, much like this guy, who ALSO smack talked Vader...

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Daine_Jir

 

You're the one boxing yourself in a corner on this, instead of working within the parameters of the game to create a feasible story.

[verfallen]

What makes me laugh a bit is the companion you are most likely to max out first has a different class than yours. Ex. Tank will have a DPS or healer with them.

 

So you'll pretty much need a tons of gift to get a bonus relevant to your class, marauder excepted (class works well with anything).

 

 

Also, slightly confused : does EACH character unlocks 1 bonus for the whole account, or you get one bonus account wide? Or each character unlock their own bonus?

[Elyx]

Yeah...the biggest issue with the OP is that Every Companion has choices you have to make, and they may not like those choices. I'm currently having a hard time getting my rep up with jaesa on my light sith. so i will probably miss out on the buff I get from her.

 

Ultimately, most people will have one or more companions they wont mesh with, hence they wont get the buff from that companion.

[Elyx]

What makes me laugh a bit is the companion you are most likely to max out first has a different class than yours. Ex. Tank will have a DPS or healer with them.

 

So you'll pretty much need a tons of gift to get a bonus relevant to your class, marauder excepted (class works well with anything).

 

 

Also, slightly confused : does EACH character unlocks 1 bonus for the whole account, or you get one bonus account wide? Or each character unlock their own bonus?

 

I think you may be confusing how the companions get affection. they get it from 2 general sources. gifts (you got that one), and then the decisions you make during quest cut scenes with NPC's. Your class doesn't impact that. my jugg doesn't have problems with Jaesa's affection because he's a warrior...he has issues because he chooses light side choices...and she gains rep from dark side choices for the most part.

 

But I've been gaining rep with vette from day one, even though she's a ranged DPS and I'm a tank. because im choosing light side choices that she prefers. although it's not always light side choices. Especially when it involves slaves...you need to choose carefully. Vette has some sensitivities about slave trading (wont give you details...it's fun to discover).

 

I actually like that aspect of the game. really makes your companions feel that much more real. the fact that I have to take their "feelings" into account when making decisions.

[Cerion]

I think you may be confusing how the companions get affection. they get it from 2 general sources. gifts (you got that one), and then the decisions you make during quest cut scenes with NPC's. Your class doesn't impact that. my jugg doesn't have problems with Jaesa's affection because he's a warrior...he has issues because he chooses light side choices...and she gains rep from dark side choices for the most part.

 

But I've been gaining rep with vette from day one, even though she's a ranged DPS and I'm a tank. because im choosing light side choices that she prefers. although it's not always light side choices. Especially when it involves slaves...you need to choose carefully. Vette has some sensitivities about slave trading (wont give you details...it's fun to discover).

 

I actually like that aspect of the game. really makes your companions feel that much more real. the fact that I have to take their "feelings" into account when making decisions.

 

My experience has been rather different, in both cases. I've found that Vette early one taught me a lesson about being more mercenary. At the end of one quest, I had the option to gain a bribe and gain DS points, or refuse the bribe and take LS points. In that moment, sort of slipped into my Jedi character, and refused the bribe. Lo and behold, Vette disapproved, lol. That is when I knew Vette had a bit of wisdom behind her. She was right. My character would have, and should have, taken the money, the DS, and her affection.

 

I've also been pragmatic and killed enemies which have garnered my DS points, but also won approval from Vette.

 

This is at odds with my Jaesa. She very much disapproves of killing, and I frequently get negative affection for being my bad boy self. I wonder if this is because my Jaesa is on the LS path? It must be the difference.

[MaximusRex]

It is things like this that show how the illusion of choice in this game is just that, an illusion.

 

The worst for me so far was playing a neutral aligned BH, where I was penalized over and over with things like quest rewards and alignment vendor items that would not work for me simply because I played the game MY WAY.

 

Sad to say, I have since figured out what 'choices' I need to make to max alignment or max companion affection, and I take the 'right' choice rather than my choice as I've found it better to forgo my choice over having a gimped companion or a gimped character.

 

All of which IMO makes having the choices in the game pointless, as you are only given a Hobson's choice, unless you don't mind gimping yourself.

 

Maybe there is hope for the future though as they have started removing the alignment requirement from items, though I haven't seen anything that would allow you to maintain your personal choice with regards to your companion and not be penalized if it isn't what they put into the game for the 'right' choices.

 

Your basic argument is that choices having consequences proves that choices don't have consequences.

 

They have said that while it wasn't an original design, that their will be neutral alignment reward added in the future.

[lokdron]

My experience has been rather different, in both cases. I've found that Vette early one taught me a lesson about being more mercenary. At the end of one quest, I had the option to gain a bribe and gain DS points, or refuse the bribe and take LS points. In that moment, sort of slipped into my Jedi character, and refused the bribe. Lo and behold, Vette disapproved, lol. That is when I knew Vette had a bit of wisdom behind her. She was right. My character would have, and should have, taken the money, the DS, and her affection.

 

I've also been pragmatic and killed enemies which have garnered my DS points, but also won approval from Vette.

 

This is at odds with my Jaesa. She very much disapproves of killing, and I frequently get negative affection for being my bad boy self. I wonder if this is because my Jaesa is on the LS path? It must be the difference.

 

Yeah your Jaesa is LS the DS Jaesa is dark side incarnate she is pretty much as evil as khem val or maybe even more.

[Zanukan]

I understand all the arguments made here, but really, this needs to be filed under, you can't have everything. It makes sense to me on a story level that you can't play an evil murderous dark lord of the galaxy AND get a sweet but snarky girl like Vette to love you. She seems to develop a certain respect for you over the story, but love would actually break the story for me. *shrug* Just my way of looking at it.

 

And on the mechanics side of the question, with a game like this that encourages makes playing a 2nd (at least) character in which the way you play would unlock that specific type for your legacy.... what's really the problem?

[OmenQ]

Finally, if you really want the ranged dps unlock, you can do that on another character in your legacy. Thus you'll only be missing the +10 presence from Vette if you absolutely refuse to release her.

 

This.

You can unlock it on an alt, with any ranged DPS companion. I don't understand the whining, but I do get why you'd want to not free Vette.

[MaterTenebrarum]

I understand all the arguments made here, but really, this needs to be filed under, you can't have everything. It makes sense to me on a story level that you can't play an evil murderous dark lord of the galaxy AND get a sweet but snarky girl like Vette to love you. She seems to develop a certain respect for you over the story, but love would actually break the story for me. *shrug* Just my way of looking at it.

 

Whoever said anything about having her love me? I'd be fine with her at -10K. I just don't care for the notion that a Sith Warrior gets straightjacketed into bowing to their slave's will if they want the full benefit of the character. I just don't see why BioWare, who took pride on letting players have control over the story, would set up Vader's class to something like this, with no alternative story that'd fit the archetype.

 

And on the mechanics side of the question, with a game like this that encourages makes playing a 2nd (at least) character in which the way you play would unlock that specific type for your legacy.... what's really the problem?

 

Among other things? Having to play through two more acts to finish her storyline on an alt, and sacrificing a character slot on my server to do so -- all so I could get full benefits due to BioWare not accounting for Vader's class to inspire characters that might behave a bit like Vader.

 

I'm not asking for a quick fix. I'm perfectly fine waiting several major patches for them to put in any mechanical alteration to Vette's storyline -- be it her freeing herself (probably the minimum of change necessary), a second questline a la Jaesa, or whatever else, just so long as Vader's class isn't penalized for role-playing like Vader.

[Cerion]

I'm not asking for a quick fix. I'm perfectly fine waiting several major patches for them to put in any mechanical alteration to Vette's storyline -- be it her freeing herself (probably the minimum of change necessary), a second questline a la Jaesa, or whatever else, just so long as Vader's class isn't penalized for role-playing like Vader.

 

 

You seem to think you're the only class with this sort of restriction. I hope your Sith in game isn't this whiney, lol. Would set a poor example. For a Lightside Jedi to unlock Scourge's benefit, they'd have to go against their type, appease him, buy him gifts.

 

So you want BW to go through and adjust each story companion to fit a minority view point of what should and shouldn't be? That's ridiculous.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Zoggel
Filter evasion

[MaterTenebrarum]

You seem to think you're the only class with this sort of restriction. I hope your Sith in game isn't this whiney, lol. Would set a poor example. For a Lightside Jedi to unlock Scourge's benefit, they'd have to go against their type, appease him, buy him gifts.

 

I do not understand why people have to resort to ad hominems here. It's really quite sad.

 

Incidentally? I can give gifts to Vette, too -- but her storyline remains locked, unlike, presumably, Scourge.

 

So you want BW to go through and adjust each story companion to fit a minority view point of what should and shouldn't be? That's [swearing bypass removed].

 

No. I want BioWare to make the storylines for each class with the inspiration for the class in mind. Can you imagine Vader tolerating Vette's behavior?

[Cerion]

I do not understand why people have to resort to ad hominems here. It's really quite sad.

 

Is it really ad hominem if it's stating a fact?

 

Incidentally? I can give gifts to Vette, too -- but her storyline remains locked, unlike, presumably, Scourge.

 

And if my Lightside Jedi refuses to talk to Scourge out of principle, he remains locked, no matter how many gifts I buy him.

 

 

 

No. I want BioWare to make the storylines for each class with the inspiration for the class in mind. Can you imagine Vader tolerating Vette's behavior?

 

Yes, I can imagine Vader tolerating her behavior. Can you imagine Vader needing a shock collar to implement his will? LOL. You talk about inspiration, but please tell me where Vader ever has need of a shock collar, haha. The fact that you want to keep it on her makes for a effing poor imitation of Vader to say the least. It proves impotence on your part.