Rage Jugg in 1.2? Nerfed or Buffed those that have played the PTR

[Schwarzwald]

so from a pvp perspective it's defo a nerf.

 

 

Its not a nerf.

 

Rage is getting buffed.

 

With the free 4 charges of shockwave on Enrage, you can now finally fill that odd gap in the 3rd-4th smash taht we currently have in which both force crush and force choke are on CD.

 

Also you are getting free activation of the self heal, which is pretty damn nice when you combine it with payback.

 

The rage back on vicious slash allow syou to only lose 1 rage to do a hard hitting melee attack while staying in soresu.

 

 

The whole freaking build is buffed.

 

Having to wait a few seconds longer on your smash isn't going to nerf anything. It just means you might actually have to think of when to use it, rather then just spam it non stop.

[bananaface]

Also you are getting free activation of the self heal, which is pretty damn nice when you combine it with payback.

 

woopdiedoo it still costs 10rage in total and brings your dmg down to 0 unless by some really odd way you build up 10 rage in advance.

 

The rage back on vicious slash allow syou to only lose 1 rage to do a hard hitting melee attack while staying in soresu.

 

it's a chance on a crit so totally RNG.

vicious slash doesn't hit hard.

lol soresu.

 

Having to wait a few seconds longer on your smash isn't going to nerf anything. It just means you might actually have to think of when to use it, rather then just spam it non stop.

 

it's not only smash (our main ability) but also force scream our second hardest hitting ability and not just the longer cd but also 10% less dmg.

like who doens't know when to use smash.

you can't spam an ability with a 12second cooldown, go look up what spam means.

no more 47seconds cd force choke, defo a big nerf.

 

 

you've been making a fool out of yourself this entire thread, so pls keep going while i get some popcorn.

Edited March 28, 2012 by bananaface

[CrunkShizzle]

i thought rage was only getting buffed for marauders and it was actually getting nerfed for juggernaughts

 

i might try it again when i get force crush and see if i dont end up with the same reason i quit playing rage in pvp the last time i tried it

Edited March 28, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[OeSan]

How are people silly enough to need a test to show that adding time to CD's, lowering damages, and taking abilities away is a nerf and not a buff, and a huge one at that!? Edited March 28, 2012 by OeSan

[Schwarzwald]

woopdiedoo it still costs 10rage in total and brings your dmg down to 0 unless by some really odd way you build up 10 rage in advance.

 

No it doesn't. It would cost 10 rage if you were hit 10 times during the duration of the buff, but that doesn't really even happen. Heck, you cold even use the ability to deter people from trying to attack you. Because attacking a rage jug in soresu who gets healed every time you hit them makes alot of sense, right?

 

If you popped it, and never got hit, then that is that, no rage spent. You can also spend the rage you do have after its activated, its not like it will all instantly vanish.

 

And if you are getting focus fired by that many people to chew through 10 rage for as long as the buff lasted, then you should be more focused on STAYING ALIVE and not trying to squeeze out more dps.

 

 

it's a chance on a crit so totally RNG.

 

Because you NEVER crit while in Immortal or Vengeance, right? in 1.2 You'll be sitting at around 28% crit and then with agent buffs you will be well over 30%. Having a greater then 1/3 change to refund rage is really nice if you ask me.

 

vicious slash doesn't hit hard.

 

2.5k crit that costs 1 rage? I'd say that is a pretty damn good use of your rage. Maybe you should learn a thing or two about rage management and dps output per rage spent.

 

 

lol soresu.

 

Now you are just making it obvious that you are a troll or just really bad at this game. If you are not in soresu for at least half of the game then you are either just solo queing and not caring about protecting people or you are just bad at your class.

 

NEARLY DOUBLING YOUR KINETIC AND ENERGY MITIGATION IS SO LOL GUIZ

 

 

it's not only smash (our main ability) but also force scream our second hardest hitting ability and not just the longer cd but also 10% less dmg.

 

If all you are doing is watching your bars so you can maximize your rotation, then you are pvping wrong. This shouldn't make much of a difference. You should still be trying to sunder targets and you should still be using vicious slash. Your sunders are helping your team. Stop being a selfish herp-derp who only wants to see big numbers on his screen. You can sit in soresu, gain all the benefit of all that extra mitigation and gain the benefits of single saber mastery, but you want to complain about less damage on one ability while ignoring the +6% damage gained on every single melee ability you use.

 

Oh, do go on.

 

 

you can't spam an ability with a 12second cooldown, go look up what spam means.

 

way to misread what I said.

 

no more 47seconds cd force choke, defo a big nerf.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

 

So you now have a 3rd ability that can generate shockwave stacks. But you continue to say its a nerf.

 

Just in case you don't believe me, because your brain is too herp-derp to figure this out on your own.

 

Lets say your average warzone is 14 minutes long. Previously with a 47 second CD on force choke you could generate 16-17 Shockwaves max with it if you used force choke every time.

 

In the changes, Enrage will grant you 6-7 Full shockwaves. with the 1 minute CD on force choke, that means you can do 13-14 shock wave stacks. 6-7 + 13-14 = more then what the previous amount was.

 

Angry baddie who doesn't know how to play his juggernaut status = OWNED

 

 

So lets recap, shall we?

 

You gained sustained damage in the form of melee damage.

 

You lose 3 second on smash, but you gain the ability to have even more control over your shockwave, meaning that now, every single one of your smashes should probably be full stacked shock wave, when previously 1 our of every 3-4 would not have any shock wave. Its a trade off, not a nerf.

 

You gain the ability to be soresu without losing the 3 second CD incentive, now making Soresu Rage the best PvP Tank build that jugs have.

 

Battlecry is now 2/2

 

Single saber mastery buffs your damage while soresu tanking in rage.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Schwarzwald]

How are people silly enough to need a test to show that adding time to CD's, lowering damages, and taking abilities away is a nerf and not a buff, and a huge one at that!?

 

How silly is it that you only look at what was lost and be willfully ignorant of what was gained.

 

This attitude is why so many people are terrible at this game. They will just read stuff, not take into account certain things, then refuse to test their own hypothesis.

 

Mass stupidity everywhere.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[lordofdamornin]

i have no issues with my current state of play

 

you missed my point.

Bioware/EA is a company. a company focused on MAKING MONEY via the production of video games.

in order to make the most money they possibly can, they must tailor their games to appeal to the most players they possibly can.

 

balancing towards the top end does not achieve this. a potential result of doing so would be a drop in subs from the mediocre players (majority).

 

balancing towards the middle of the bell curve risks alienating the top end (minority), likewise with a reduction in subs from that area.

 

between the two options, one can result in the loss of more subs than the other. the smart BUSSINESS decision is to choose the option that results in the least subs lost.

 

how does this come into the 1.2 patch picture re: rage jugs?

well, by looking at the change from the lowest common denominator perspective.

the view from down there is not so great.

 

try to see things from a perspective that is not your own.

you might gain some valuable insights

 

 

 

it was not my intent to suggest schwarz was an elitist in the negative sense of the word.

rather i wished to convey that his view was from a player at the top of the pecking order.

 

This is fundamentally incorrect, both in MMO's, and in real life. It's sad that you don't know why.

 

On topic:

 

Whenver I'm Rage spec, I take the points to boost the Crit chance of Vicious Slash. I haven't yet seen that this talent has been removed. In my gear, VS has a ~42% chance to Crit. In top gear, it's probably ~45%. In the next tier of gear, it might be pushing 50%.

 

I don't think Rage Juggs in 1.2 will have to worry too much about the Rage refund in PvE, or PvP.

 

Additionally, these changes aren't really going to affect the average skilled player at all. Nor are they going to affect the highly skilled players. The ones most affected will be;

 

FOTM/Lazy players

Slightly above-average players, who think they are better than they actually are

Players who don't actually know the class (or the game itself) as well as they think they do

 

Riôt

[bananaface]

No it doesn't. It would cost 10 rage if you were hit 10 times during the duration of the buff, but that doesn't really even happen. Heck, you cold even use the ability to deter people from trying to attack you. Because attacking a rage jug in soresu who gets healed every time you hit them makes alot of sense, right?

yeah cuz it only heals for 3% and that will really stop people from attacking you. dont see why you need soresu to get the heal, it doesn't add anything. clarify this plox.

 

If you popped it, and never got hit, then that is that, no rage spent. You can also spend the rage you do have after its activated, its not like it will all instantly vanish.

 

then you used it on the wrong moment if you'd never get hit.

 

And if you are getting focus fired by that many people to chew through 10 rage for as long as the buff lasted, then you should be more focused on STAYING ALIVE and not trying to squeeze out more dps.

if you get focus fired by atleast 3 you're dead anyway w/o a healer or intimidating roar or intercede on cd.

 

Because you NEVER crit while in Immortal or Vengeance, right? in 1.2 You'll be sitting at around 28% crit and then with agent buffs you will be well over 30%. Having a greater then 1/3 change to refund rage is really nice if you ask me.

2.5k crit that costs 1 rage? I'd say that is a pretty damn good use of your rage. Maybe you should learn a thing or two about rage management and dps output per rage spent.

 

what do immortal or vengeance specs have to do with this? clarify.

with current gear you should already be crit softcapped.

do your homework better cause vicious slash gets a passive bonus to crit chance from skill points to the additional 35% or w/e you have.

still doesn't rule out that it's a chance on crit, so a proc on a proc. means it's not reliable.

and hah rage manegement, you should have exactly enough rage to do your normal rotation and won't have any rage left for vicious slash.

 

 

Now you are just making it obvious that you are a troll or just really bad at this game. If you are not in soresu for at least half of the game then you are either just solo queing and not caring about protecting people or you are just bad at your class.

 

i can give the same amount of protection to allies with intercede+taunt as guard, heck it's even better cause the dmg aint shared with me.

by throwing out a lot of pressure on those that are on my allies let's them retreat or play defensive or just kill them, thus protecting my allies in that way.

and i'm not even talking about all the defensive tools a jugg has.

why do all random healers or any players love me for protecting them? cause i'm better at it then a tank, nuff said.

soresu is only usefull when you have the ball or some extremely rare situations, rest of the time it's a major dps loss (and i just stated wut that means).

 

If all you are doing is watching your bars so you can maximize your rotation, then you are pvping wrong. This shouldn't make much of a difference. You should still be trying to sunder targets and you should still be using vicious slash. Your sunders are helping your team. Stop being a selfish herp-derp who only wants to see big numbers on his screen. You can sit in soresu, gain all the benefit of all that extra mitigation and gain the benefits of single saber mastery, but you want to complain about less damage on one ability while ignoring the +6% damage gained on every single melee ability you use.

 

 

a pro player like me doesn't have to watch his bars for his rotation.

why bother with sunders for the debuff if you can kill someone before you would even get 5 stacks up.

in the proper rage rotation you wouldn't have excess rage to use vicious slash, also if you have excess rage from using enrage you should be saving it up for your next rotation cyclus so you can leave out weaker attacks like (sundering) assault during it.

ah still going on about soresu.

it let's you build 1 less rage with each (sundering) assault

it doesn't reduce your dmg done with 1 ability like you stated.

single saber mastery doesn't support soresu on live.

on live you should have only 1 point in single saber mastery.

while in soresu form the cooldown on all force attacks is not lowered by 3 seconds.

shi-cho form on itself increases dmg done, while soresu does not.

 

way to misread what I said.

Having to wait a few seconds longer on your smash isn't going to nerf anything. It just means you might actually have to think of when to use it, rather then just spam it non stop.

 

it is wut you said, can't make anything else out of it.

 

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

holy **** we got a buff!

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

holy **** we got a buff!

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

holy **** we got a buff!

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

holy **** we got a buff!

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

holy **** we got a buff!

ENRAGE CAN NOW GIVE YOU 4 STACKS OF SHOCKWAVE.

holy **** we got a buff!

 

So you now have a 3rd ability that can generate shockwave stacks. But you continue to say its a nerf.

so that's all we gain from everything we lose? damn we should be happy!

 

Just in case you don't believe me, because your brain is too herp-derp to figure this out on your own.

 

Lets say your average warzone is 14 minutes long. Previously with a 47 second CD on force choke you could generate 16-17 Shockwaves max with it if you used force choke every time.

 

In the changes, Enrage will grant you 6-7 Full shockwaves. with the 1 minute CD on force choke, that means you can do 13-14 shock wave stacks. 6-7 + 13-14 = more then what the previous amount was.

 

force choke aint just for shockwave stacks, it's mainly utility to help your team out.

 

So lets recap, shall we?

 

You gained sustained damage in the form of melee damage.

 

You lose 3 second on smash, but you gain the ability to have even more control over your shockwave, meaning that now, every single one of your smashes should probably be full stacked shock wave, when previously 1 our of every 3-4 would not have any shock wave. Its a trade off, not a nerf.

 

You gain the ability to be soresu without losing the 3 second CD incentive, now making Soresu Rage the best PvP Tank build that jugs have.

 

Battlecry is now 2/2

 

Single saber mastery buffs your damage while soresu tanking in rage.

 

burst > sustained in pvp

we lose 3 seconds not only on smash but on force scream aswell, gosh i hate repeating myself.

the controlled shockwave stacks 1x every minute is cool, i give you that. but it doesnt mean every single smash has all shockwave stacks like you said.

soresu rage will still be worthless due to lack of rage generation to keep up your rotation, thus pressure.

some skill points shifted/changed in our favour also some against us.

will have to see if it's beneficial to pick up single saber mastery over other skill points in the new skill point build, even then the point about soresu is flawed like said all too often.

 

 

 

oh and i love that you increase letter sizes and give color to words and stuff, it really makes your post look constructive and serious.

 

anyone has more popcorn? i'm all out:<

 

edit:

just had to remind you of this,

Force Alacrity has been replaced by Overpower, which allows Vicious Slash critical hits to have a chance to refund 2 points of Rage while the Juggernaut is in Shii-Cho Form.

Edited March 29, 2012 by bananaface

[bananaface]

and on topic, I compiled a list of buffs/nerfs for rage on 1.2 that matter to make things easier for some people.

 

buffs:

relentless let's enrage generate 2 stacks of shockwave for each skill point.

battly cry now apply's the same effect with 2 skill points instead of 3.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

edit:

vicious throw can now be used on targets at or below 30% hp.

 

nerfs:

force alacrity removed but force crush cd reduced by 3 seconds.

Ravager no longer reduces the cd on force choke.

decimate now increases the damage of smash by 20% instead of 30%.

Sundering Throw is now located in Tier 6 of the Vengeance skill tree.

crash is a passive skill that let's your charge fill your targets resolve bar.

Edited March 29, 2012 by bananaface

[lordofdamornin]

and on topic, I compiled a list of buffs/nerfs for rage on 1.2 that matter to make things easier for some people.

 

buffs:

relentless let's enrage generate 2 stacks of shockwave for each skill point.

battly cry now apply's the same effect with 2 skill points instead of 3.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

 

nerfs:

force alacrity removed but force crush cd reduced by 3 seconds.

Ravager no longer reduces the cd on force choke.

decimate now increases the damage of smash by 20% instead of 30%.

Sundering Throw is now located in Tier 6 of the Vengeance skill tree.

crash is a passive skill that let's your charge fill your targets resolve bar.

 

Just looking at the Obliterate *buff* for a moment - I haven't played Rage enough in PvP to have noticed if Obliterate currently adds Resolve. I don't think it does, but I welcome a correction here.

 

This new immobilization on Obliterate almost certainly will add Resolve, which falls under the Crash category of *this should not go live.*

 

If Obliterate currently gives Resolve, then this is moot.

 

Riôt

[Schwarzwald]

and on topic, I compiled a list of buffs/nerfs for rage on 1.2 that matter to make things easier for some people.

 

buffs:

relentless let's enrage generate 2 stacks of shockwave for each skill point.

battly cry now apply's the same effect with 2 skill points instead of 3.

Obliterate now immobilizes the target for 1 second.

 

nerfs:

force alacrity removed but force crush cd reduced by 3 seconds.

Ravager no longer reduces the cd on force choke.

decimate now increases the damage of smash by 20% instead of 30%.

Sundering Throw is now located in Tier 6 of the Vengeance skill tree.

crash is a passive skill that let's your charge fill your targets resolve bar.

 

 

This list shows that you have no freaking clue what you ware talking about. Go read the freaking patch notes.

 

under buffs you might want to add the CD reduction on Force Crush to 18 seconds.

 

Also the reduction of Decimate isn't a nerf. Its specifically addressing that you will be hitting too hard with the new, proper, itemizations in 1.2. The battlemaster gear in 1.2, when it is upgraded, will have LOADS more power and surge.

 

Here http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bmcomparisonwarrior.jpg

 

Comparison of the itemization changes for Vindicators set.

 

These stats easily make up the difference from the 10% damage lost from smash, because those new stats on your gear is going to effecting all your abilities. And honestly if Rage would remain the same with the new itemization, it would be too easy. My current set has been modified to look 1.2 stats, and its OP. OP as ****. I can Instagib a tank if he is standing next to the person he is guarding. With a final force crush tick crit upward to 2k, a smash on a warrior for 4k and a transfered damage from his healer being somewhere around 3K, that is 9K damage, done to a tank, in the time span of one global. I just freaking did it against one of the best geared Guardians on my server. Its not pug pwning, its disgustingly OP. I 6K crit every game. If the spec %'s remained the same, especially with the new Expertise values, I'd probably be hitting people with 10k crits pretty frequently and it would be back to the days of Expertise buff stacking, and no one wants that.

 

You also left out the Rage free self heal, but I guess you will always consider that ability to be use harmful then good, which is fine, enjoy being at the bottom of the rated lists.

 

The crash nerf is universal, it looks like you are just trying to inflate the list of nerfs to prove your point. Keep grasping at them straws, because a person being resolve capped shouldn't stop you from either building Shockwave or landing a smash. Only a bad player is unable to hit people who are on resolve.

 

 

Again, if you think rage is getting 'nerfed' then you havn't taken all the warriors changes into consideration. You barely read the patch notes and you don't take into account that the stats gained in the new itemization will pretty much cover any damage reduction on skills. Its staying exactly in the same place it has and imo its better then before.

 

Your right about burst being better then sustained but you are also forgetting that Vicious Throw is now @ 30%. Again, more heavy burst abilities covering the damage lost in rage. Rage would be brokenly over powered if it didn't recieve any nerfs with all the universal buffs that warriors are getting

Edited March 29, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[mschrader]

wow this topic has gotten heated...

[Darthshnooky]

wow this topic has gotten heated...

 

We're fueled by rage... what else would you expect?

[mschrader]

We're fueled by rage... what else would you expect?

 

lol tru tru, I love my rage spec Jugg the way he is. Hopefully my love wont be changed by the patch.

[bananaface]

Just looking at the Obliterate *buff* for a moment - I haven't played Rage enough in PvP to have noticed if Obliterate currently adds Resolve. I don't think it does, but I welcome a correction here.

 

This new immobilization on Obliterate almost certainly will add Resolve, which falls under the Crash category of *this should not go live.*

 

If Obliterate currently gives Resolve, then this is moot.

 

Riôt

 

charge on live gives an immobilize effect and doesn't add resolve, nor do any other ability's with the same effect.

so it shouldnt add resolve.

[bananaface]

This list shows that you have no freaking clue what you ware talking about. Go read the freaking patch notes.

 

under buffs you might want to add the CD reduction on Force Crush to 18 seconds.

 

we already got this so it aint a buff.

 

Also the reduction of Decimate isn't a nerf. Its specifically addressing that you will be hitting too hard with the new, proper, itemizations in 1.2. The battlemaster gear in 1.2, when it is upgraded, will have LOADS more power and surge.

 

NERF Definition / NERF Means

The definition of NERF is "Weaken

 

Here http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bmcomparisonwarrior.jpg

 

Comparison of the itemization changes for Vindicators set.

 

These stats easily make up the difference from the 10% damage lost from smash, because those new stats on your gear is going to effecting all your abilities. And honestly if Rage would remain the same with the new itemization, it would be too easy. My current set has been modified to look 1.2 stats, and its OP. OP as ****. I can Instagib a tank if he is standing next to the person he is guarding. With a final force crush tick crit upward to 2k, a smash on a warrior for 4k and a transfered damage from his healer being somewhere around 3K, that is 9K damage, done to a tank, in the time span of one global. I just freaking did it against one of the best geared Guardians on my server. Its not pug pwning, its disgustingly OP. I 6K crit every game. If the spec %'s remained the same, especially with the new Expertise values, I'd probably be hitting people with 10k crits pretty frequently and it would be back to the days of Expertise buff stacking, and no one wants that.

 

everyone get's better gear.

instagib = 1shot, and that aint happening on live nor on future.

most classes can do massive aoe dmg.

expertise also reduces dmg taken in pvp, so your point is flawed.

 

You also left out the Rage free self heal, but I guess you will always consider that ability to be use harmful then good, which is fine, enjoy being at the bottom of the rated lists.

 

free means it doesn't cost resources, and atm it costs more resources than you normally have thus gimping your dps while healing for 30% of your hp at the cost of 10 rage if you are hit 10times.

 

The crash nerf is universal, it looks like you are just trying to inflate the list of nerfs to prove your point. Keep grasping at them straws, because a person being resolve capped shouldn't stop you from either building Shockwave or landing a smash. Only a bad player is unable to hit people who are on resolve.

 

universal or not, it still is a nerf to rage.

full resolve or not, still allows you to build up shockwave or hit with smashes so i dont see your point.

 

 

Again, if you think rage is getting 'nerfed' then you havn't taken all the warriors changes into consideration. You barely read the patch notes and you don't take into account that the stats gained in the new itemization will pretty much cover any damage reduction on skills. Its staying exactly in the same place it has and imo its better then before.

 

go read up the patch notes carefully yourself, then look at the compiled list. you'd see it's complete.

again, stats are being changed for all classes/specs so your point is invalid.

 

Your right about burst being better then sustained but you are also forgetting that Vicious Throw is now @ 30%. Again, more heavy burst abilities covering the damage lost in rage. Rage would be brokenly over powered if it didn't recieve any nerfs with all the universal buffs that warriors are getting

 

oh **** you got me with the vicous throw buff, editing buffs/nerfs thread!

[Wrothag]

 

Its specifically addressing that you will be hitting too hard with the new, proper, itemizations in 1.2. The battlemaster gear in 1.2, when it is upgraded, will have LOADS more power and surge.

 

Here http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bmcomparisonwarrior.jpg

 

Comparison of the itemization changes for Vindicators set.

 

 

seems like i will gain about 45 power. thats not LOADS more power and surge imo.

[OeSan]

seems like i will gain about 45 power. thats not LOADS more power and surge imo.

 

Aye and a buff to gear does not change that there are nerfs to abilities. Also not sure why some people feel the need to be such internet toughguys.

Edited March 29, 2012 by OeSan

[OeSan]

 

Also the reduction of Decimate isn't a nerf. Its specifically addressing that you will be hitting too hard with the new, proper, itemizations in 1.2. The battlemaster gear in 1.2, when it is upgraded, will have LOADS more power and surge.

 

Here http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bmcomparisonwarrior.jpg

 

Comparison of the itemization changes for Vindicators set.

 

These stats easily make up the difference from the 10% damage lost from smash

Although this may seem true, my reitemized champ/bm set for max power/str/end, softcapped surge and 100% acc is way better then the new stats you've shown. So it certainly doesn't outweight the 10% loss to smash, nvm the cd nerfs and resolve on charge. It MAY even out with the higher cap on DR's or expertise, but it certainly wont be a buff of any sort.

[Zanxscarce]

I do on average 500-600k damage a game as rage in its current state if I have a healer, 400k if I am solo queueing.

 

It needs a nerf when I can kill people who are wearing near full champs in 3-4 globals with WZ adrenals and relics popped.

 

The upcoming 'nerfs' to rage is just redistributing the sources of damage that Rage does. Currently its probably one of the most unmitigated builds in the game and my average smash crits range from 4.8k to 5.4k. Low end smash crits are like 3.8k at the lowest and my highest yet is a 7.2k crit. Force scream crits range from 3.2-5.2k crits (yes, 5.2K force scream crits)

 

Good players will be uneffected by the rage 'nerf' with the swap out of Force alacrity to the vicious slash.

 

Good players are not going to complain too much about it because they understand that it is a pretty efficient use of Rage to spend in between cooldowns.

 

Good players realize that this change will also make Crit on your gear more useful then it was previously, because now it will directly effect how much rage you conserve during a vicious slash spam fest.

 

Good players realize that this change, in a way, makes hopping into Soresu more viable, since only rage generation will be hurt and not a significant chunk of your damage output.

 

 

Bad players say this is a nerf, the end of rage as a viable spec but really they are just children who don't bother to use the brains inside their heads.

 

Why is this nerf needed? Remember all that damage I do that I described above. I min max my stats, I do certain things which I am not sharing because you guys can learn that crap on your own. But what I can say, is that in 1.2 BM and WH gear will be itemized in a similar way that I do. Rage in its current form is stale and boring rotation (even though blasting newbies is pretty damn fun) and if the current form of rage was introduced into 1.2 with the new itemization, then Rage jugs would simply break the game. Seriously, a Rage jug and a good healer could probably stop a premade on their own.

 

Thats why rage is getting nerfed.

 

If you disagree with me you are probably a bad rage jug.

 

edit and people people QQ about how i'm some dick who doesn't have anything to back it up.

 

http://i.imgur.com/hHwah.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vJirp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GUIhd.jpg

 

it goes on and on, this nearly happens every game for me.

 

It is really hard to tell if Rage is over powered, or if everyone else is bad. Wait I've got it, brains are overpowered, nerf brains please.

 

 

 

This guy, needs to take his whole post, then copy paste it on this last page.

Props to you bro, im not at 50 on my jugg yet, but im most certainly the guy out DPS'ing and out DMG'ing the team 90% of the time.

 

Serious question though. When people post 400k and up DMG, are you playing other undergeared plyrs? My server although small, has a great number of BMs that KNOW their class and what to do, which results in more objective style play, and its harder to rack up these numbers. At first I figured it was a L2P scenario, but now im wondering.

[blackdots]

 

He [schwarz] hasn't called for nerfs to the spec,

 

Pardon me:

 

It needs a nerf when I can kill people who are wearing near full champs in 3-4 globals with WZ adrenals and relics popped.

 

That's explicitly calling for a nerf. As I said:

 

Summary of Schwarzwald's arguments:

 

"Rage takes no skill it's just mindless gimmick damage, my immortal spec wins games, while rage is just big numbers on the screen for morons."

 

Then in the same breath:

 

"Nerf rage cus it's ridiculously powerfulzzzz!!!!"

 

Further comment unnecessary on that point.

 

He doesn't care about balancing jugs, he just wants his preferred playstyle buffed at the expense of others. It's a joke.

 

Is rage playstyle simple? Yes. Do immoral or vengeance builds take more skill? No. It's just laughable rationalizations to justify the fact that they play less effective builds: "I play the less effective build cus it takes more skill and i'm so pro!" Oh, please.

 

He's just another QQer trying to get his preferred build buffed and others nerfed. Laughable.

Edited March 29, 2012 by blackdots

[bananaface]

the best thing is, he hasn't been able to give a single valid arguement why rage should get nerfed.

[Schwarzwald]

Although this may seem true, my reitemized champ/bm set for max power/str/end, softcapped surge and 100% acc is way better then the new stats you've shown. So it certainly doesn't outweight the 10% loss to smash, nvm the cd nerfs and resolve on charge. It MAY even out with the higher cap on DR's or expertise, but it certainly wont be a buff of any sort.

 

You don't seem to get what I am trying to convey.

 

Currently Rage is balanced around what warriors would be wearing on default. After I min/maxed my gear my damage increased pretty significantly.

 

I am critting Sages who have 550 expertise for 6.4k. You don't think that is the slightest bit OP? Hitting a BM Sage for nearly half their health with one ability?

 

Bioware has stated over and over again that they do not want PvP to play out like WoW, that being fast short battles. They want PvP to be decided over longer fights, and other class changes reflect this sentiment

 

The damage, from my perspective, will most likely even out and be the same as it would if you were wearings the current default BM Vindicators, but the reason why it is a buff is because we can now have more sustain between smash bombs.

 

Its a buff to players who can handle the changes and utilize the new sustained DPS properly. Its a nerf to players who DEPENDED on their high burst to kill targets, rather then smart management of abilities.

[Schwarzwald]

Pardon me:

 

 

 

That's explicitly calling for a nerf. As I said:

 

Summary of Schwarzwald's arguments:

 

"Rage takes no skill it's just mindless gimmick damage, my immortal spec wins games, while rage is just big numbers on the screen for morons."

 

Then in the same breath:

 

"Nerf rage cus it's ridiculously powerfulzzzz!!!!"

 

Further comment unnecessary on that point.

 

He doesn't care about balancing jugs, he just wants his preferred playstyle buffed at the expense of others. It's a joke.

 

Is rage playstyle simple? Yes. Do immoral or vengeance builds take more skill? No. It's just laughable rationalizations to justify the fact that they play less effective builds: "I play the less effective build cus it takes more skill and i'm so pro!" Oh, please.

 

He's just another QQer trying to get his preferred build buffed and others nerfed. Laughable.

 

Rage doesn't take any skill to do 300k damage every game.

 

Better players will do much more then 300k damage every game.

 

No other Jug Spec can reach these numbers as easily as Rage. But on the other hand, every spec can defend and guard just as well as Immortal can and do the same, if not more damage then Immortal can.

 

Are you saying that you are happy with the state of Immortal in PvP and that it is an equally viable option considering itemization and skill point values as Rage? PT and Assatanks are insanely good, their damage, mitigation and protection all seem to be above Immortal. With the Crash Changes, its even more undesireable to play a Utility role within warzones and going pure tank with warleaders is a waste of time unless you just want to be a dedicated ball runner, but you won't even recieve much more mitigation then you would if you just wore a shield and stayed in your DPS gear.

 

I played my immortal build for a while during launch, probably 2 months. Then once everyone started catching up in gear, the build pretty much fell off the face of the earth. Poor damage, Poor mitigation. And you can go into soresu and guard anybody in any spec, so whats the freaking point of being deep immortal anymore.

 

My preferred playstyle is what ever I damn feel like, I just wish that I could add some variety to it all without intentionally gimping myself by speccing into Immortal.

 

Is rage playstyle simple? Yes. Do immoral or vengeance builds take more skill? No.

 

If you don't believe that there is an obvious skill cap difference between the 3 specs that Jugs have then I don't think we have anything further to debate.

 

Also, why don't you stop putting words in my mouth and speak for yourself for a change. You seem to only be spectating from the side shouting comments, but I've yet to see any meaningful input from you on the subject. All I've seen you contribute to this thread are a couple of posts that all look pretty much the same, in fact 2 of them just seem copy pasted. So if you are going to contribute to the discussion, do so.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Schwarzwald]

the best thing is, he hasn't been able to give a single valid arguement why rage should get nerfed.

 

And you have yet to give a reason why dropping a BM Sorc in 5-6 seconds after engaging that target is considered balanced gameplay. Killing someone as equally geared as me in 4 globals isn't balanced gameplay.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Schwarzwald