Rage Jugg in 1.2? Nerfed or Buffed those that have played the PTR

[Dee-Jay]

I do on average 500-600k damage a game as rage in its current state if I have a healer, 400k if I am solo queueing.

 

Your fallacy is in assuming "damage done" is the ultimate benchmark.

 

But it's not. Dealing lots of damage doesn't automatically mean you're contributing more or that that damage is having much of an effect. An Operative for example that goes around spaming Corrosive Dart on everyone would also get pretty impressive numbers, without that damage actually meaning much in the end.

 

In the same way, a Sage's healing circle may add up to a large amount of healing, but the relevance of that type of healing is actually pretty small in PvP.

 

Now I'm not saying Rage DPS is balanced, but simply quoting numbers and calling it a day isn't good enough. Quoting Killing Blows for example tells and entirely different story and shows that damage alone doesn't kill.

 

The problem with Rage DPS from a damage perspective is:

 

1. Too Focused on Force Smash - The entire spec evolves around a single attack, an AoE one at that. Naturally this ability is going to hit very hard.

 

2. The fact that Smash is an AoE attack. Rage DPS would be fine, if Smash wasn't AoE. The AoE is what causes these inflated damage numbers and much of the balancing issues.

 

3. The spec allows us to ignore Crit and Push Power + Surge. With Focus DPS being able to practically ignore Accuracy and Crit, it makes it very easy to pimp the damage of that spec significantly.

 

4. The 4-piece PvP set bonus encourages "Smashing game-play". It just adds to an already bursty spec.

 

 

If Bioware were wise, they'd try to address those issues in a more sensible way, instead of just increasing the CD on Smash, which keeps the burst, just reduces the frequency.

 

1. Make Focus DPS more than about Smash. Maybe make Bladestorm a more integral part of the spec by having it consume Singularity or add something more to Force Stasis.

 

2. By shifting some damage away from Smash towards other abilities you can lower the Smash damage without gutting the entire spec.

 

3. Make Crit and Accuracy relevant to Focus DPS. Reduce the "Feeling Blow" Crit Bonus to 60% for example, encouraging us to stack more than just Power and Surge. Accuracy too should play a bigger role.

 

4. And finally just replace the 4-piece PvP bonus with something that doesn't further increase our DPS. Preferably something that adds defensive utility like "Removes the activation cost of Focused Defense".

 

 

Those steps would be logical changes to the spec that would address the actual issues without gutting it simply because...I'm disappointed Bioware doesn't seem to realize just what is "broken" with Focus and why.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[Dracosz]

the changes might not be a nerf to you, the elitist player, but it IS a nerf to the average player (those you call bads).

 

there are far more average players subbed than there are good players. any company, bioware included, wishing to be competative in the mmo market must cater towards those average players.

 

regardless of how the proposed changes will effect you personally, they will cumulatively act as a nerf to the average player who wishes to play a rage jug.

 

Ad hominem is a wonderful way to get a point across and makes you smart...

 

In all seriousness, calling schwarz out on being elitist is asinine and quite frankly, insulting to the amount of work that he's put in on these forums and within his thread. He's offered very clear and concise points as to why rage needs to have some fundamental change.

 

The spec is not being changed to "make it harder for average players", it's being made more interactive to remove the very lackluster and shallow depth of gameplay that currently plagues the spec. I've posted this before but only NINE talents contribute to the overall playstyle of rage in a direct manner, the rest are supplemental. Vengeance and immortal, on the other hand have 24 talents that work directly with overall spec and build up the complexity of the tree.

 

The upcoming patch increases the number of "complexity talents" for rage by 9, EIGHTEEN talents that now work in tandem with the end result of the tree. THAT is fantastic and while it's not perfect, it's certainly a step forward in the right direction.

 

The JK above me made some nice posts on further direction for the tree such as reemphasizing crit and accuracy, I recommend reading that as well as schwarz's post as to why the current set of changes is good for the tree.

 

Remember, numerical changes can always happen, it's structural change that is more important and lasting. The juggernaut has seen some fantastic structural change this patch, don't besmirch that by thinking bioware has it in for you; they don't,

[Goretzu]

You used to post again and again about how rage was just "fluff" or "gimmick" damage, bashing those of us who argued that Rage was the best PvP spec. Hilarious. You also continue to insult people who argue for vengeance, even though it, too, is a perfectly good spec in PvP with its own strong points (e.g. balance of dps and ball carrier utility). Mind you, this is all the while you were arguing for a PvP build that's about as close to being objectively inferior to the builds you were criticizing as is possible for this sort of thing.

 

 

The strange world of the Schwarzwaldo.

[Greeve]

The guy you are defending...his entire post is ad hominem

 

He could have proved his points by not calling everyone who doesn't like these changes a baddie.

 

I'm all for hearing different views of the changes but he came off like a jack wagon.

 

Either way I'd still lOve to hear what's so great about minor buffs to slash and ED

 

I'm still going for as much power as I can with surge change to maximize my smash damage. Crit is not going to be overnight a desired stat for rage IMO.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Greeve

[Locustone]

http://i.imgur.com/H258X.jpg

 

speak of the devil, it happened again. And this was up against and with some of the best players on the server, we capped our door with only 22 seconds remaining.

 

Are you guys really saying you want THIS to be a common thing? This damage output is just kinda ridiculous.

 

What if there were more of me in that warzone. Get ready for jug flavor of the month.

 

 

Also, please don't use pocket healers as an argument. PvP is a team effort and you should have healers with you, and when you are with a healer, Rage jugs are ridiculous.

 

You have three pocket healers and you think you are a good player, rofl. I'd say you have exeptional healers. Show us that level of damage without the massive healing... Being able to leap into 7 players to smash them for 5-6k adds up quick and doesn't show you have skill at all. Show us your damage in a non-premade with one or no healers and we'll see if you can hit 700k. Coming on here and telling people to learn to play when your performance is obviously healer dependent is fail. We'll see how effectively your two sorc buddies can keep you alive come 1.2!

[blackdots]

I'm still going for as much power as I can with surge change to maximize my smash damage. Crit is not going to be overnight a desired stat for rage IMO.

 

I agree.

 

Summary of Schwarzwald's arguments:

 

"Rage takes no skill it's just mindless gimmick damage, my immortal spec wins games, while rage is just big numbers on the screen for morons."

 

Then in the same breath:

 

"Nerf rage cus it's ridiculously powerfulzzzz!!!!"

 

Further comment unnecessary on that point.

 

He doesn't care about balancing jugs, he just wants his preferred playstyle buffed at the expense of others. It's a joke.

 

Is rage playstyle simple? Yes. Do immoral or vengeance builds take more skill? No. It's just laughable rationalizations to justify the fact that they play less effective builds: "I play the less effective build cus it takes more skill and i'm so pro!" Oh, please.

 

Again, always keep your eye out for the inevitable inconsistencies in their arguments: saying rage sucks in one thread, but yet needs to be nerfed because OP in another. There's no reason to take these guys seriously, despite their attempts to prop themselves up as the authorities on jugs. They're just more QQers trying to get their builds buffed and others nerfed.

Edited March 27, 2012 by blackdots

[ExpLiciTSainT]

You have three pocket healers and you think you are a good player, rofl. I'd say you have exeptional healers. Show us that level of damage without the massive healing... Being able to leap into 7 players to smash them for 5-6k adds up quick and doesn't show you have skill at all. Show us your damage in a non-premade with one or no healers and we'll see if you can hit 700k. Coming on here and telling people to learn to play when your performance is obviously healer dependent is fail. We'll see how effectively your two sorc buddies can keep you alive come 1.2!

 

^ lol exactly what I was thinking. 700K in healing? Wow.

 

I know he has modded all his gear to make it so he hits harder and uses biochem. I think that's the problem he's talking about. Take your mods away, biochem away, and use the default gear, and then get back to us on that 700K damage.

 

My buddy was playing on his level 25 Merc and did 500K damage yesterday without biochem, mods, etc... AOE specs build numbers pretty fast.

 

Right now I can 1v1 a healer and win... not many other classes can. When in combat, I usually do NOT live long enough to activate 2 smashes in a group of people.

 

However, I am looking forward to 30% VS, and our small heals. It might be a good trade off, IDK. At 3 rage per throw, I feel it won't be as great as you think.

 

When I play with a pocket healer, I can live long enough to get high numbers. My damage is very much inline with every other class I play with. Sorc and Mercs usually out DPS me, even with pocket heals. I'm always 20K - 100K lower than the other AOE spec people, take 2 times as much damage, and cannot heal myself like they can.

 

I average 350 - 420K damage in warzones and Sorcs that I play with are averaging 500K. Adding 3 seconds to my Smash will make it so I don't use my second smash, I simply do not live long enough to be in a group of people where it's needed.

[lordofdamornin]

I happen to agree with most of what you say, Schwarz, but if you are going to post screenshots to back your viewpoints, you should probaby post one that doesn't appear to be a farming session.

 

Those are some of the best Republic players on your server?

 

Riôt

[Dracosz]

There's no reason to take these guys seriously, despite their attempts to prop themselves up as the authorities on jugs. They're just more QQers trying to get their builds buffed and others nerfed.

 

All the ad hominem.

 

He hasn't called for nerfs to the spec, he's called for a more even distribution of talent efficacy in the spec and for more overall priorities than simply smash. Nowhere did he say he wanted rage to be nerfed so that his preferred spec could supplant rage's damage dealing potential.

 

Rage will still be fine in the patch. Adapting to the changes is just something that juggernauts will have to get used to. I will still play it, I will also play immortal and I will most certainly still play vengeance (my own preferred spec).

 

Just because we have preferences doesn't mean that we can't provide insight into other specs. In fact, we've probably played the spec more than you have (Schwarz and I have been 50 since pre-launch) and we've sunk more time than I'd like to imagine into coming up with our specs and the playstyle, not to mention the time spent playing them out and posting about them. Calling us out on trying to be "authoritative" and "elitist" doesn't do anything but make your argument petty.

 

If you have something constructive (that we've perhaps missed in our discussion) then he and I have always fostered good communication in our respective threads* and the countless others that we've posted in. If we say something, we're not pulling a fast one, we're telling you what we know and trying to help the community as a whole.

 

That's what it's always been about; providing a better, more intuitive experience for others. If we didn't have that drive, then why would we have even bothered to make these posts?

 

- Jorrus out

 

* although he's been a bit less open than me =P (<3 schwarz)

[Schwarzwald]

I happen to agree with most of what you say, Schwarz, but if you are going to post screenshots to back your viewpoints, you should probaby post one that doesn't appear to be a farming session.

 

Those are some of the best Republic players on your server?

 

Riôt

 

implying that voidstar is anything but a farming session?

[Schwarzwald]

I agree.

 

Summary of Schwarzwald's arguments:

 

Rage is an easy to play build and if you are doing sub 300k damage it means you were probably running the ball the whole game or you are a terrible player. The rage tree itself is ridiculously powerful for what it does but the playstyle is weak is boring.

 

My immortal build requires management of abilities and keeping an eye on your team more and playing for the objective, but it still has a really high skill cap if you want to do more then 250k damage in a game. Immortal itself on the surface is nice, but the itemization for it is terrible and Bioware seems to think its a good idea to stack on a stat which only counters 2 classes which are currently under represented in warzones and those that are present for that class are terrible at playing that class, so why even bother with defense as a stat.

 

tl;dr Rage is EZ mode and simpleton play while immortal is harder to do well in for having such terrible itemization and no clear direction on if they want Jug tanks to be utility or actual tanks in pvp.

 

 

 

 

fix'd

[Schwarzwald]

I'm not going to bag on you but you have to realize that at its current state any dps can achieve that kind of damage especially in a preform. I rarely go into any match preform. When I do it is with friends and we don't ever have a healer. IE just grouping with buds. So I usually end up dieng quite a bit. I am not a terrible player nor the best player but in the rounds I play I an always near the top in dmg metals etc and sometimes lucky to be top spot. I have noticed there are really good members of all classes that can do this kind of dmg so to say we need to nurfed because of it is just short sighted. To call people bad players because of these nurfs is short sighted as well. Especially when there are classes just down right superior at both damage and survival ability... Sometimes havin both

 

That was before the rest of the people on my server caught up in gear. but it doesn't change my opinions that rage is boring and bioware just seems to hate the idea of melee tanks that are not assassins.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Greeve]

How are my priorities different? Use VC more? Use ravage more? No the play style Is going to be the exact same currently very intuitive style that we see today plus 3 more seconds between smashes. You can say things as eloquently as you like but just because it's well stated it doesn't mean it's true. Not to mention your hypocrisy in defending someone who called everyone a baddie while calling others out for name calling.

[Schwarzwald]

The guy you are defending...his entire post is ad hominem

 

He could have proved his points by not calling everyone who doesn't like these changes a baddie.

 

I'm all for hearing different views of the changes but he came off like a jack wagon.

 

Either way I'd still lOve to hear what's so great about minor buffs to slash and ED

 

I'm still going for as much power as I can with surge change to maximize my smash damage. Crit is not going to be overnight a desired stat for rage IMO.

 

While there were hints of ad hominem, I didn't directly attack anyone, if I recall.

 

Pointing out that some players are better then others isn't ad hominem.

 

Look at SC2 for instance. There are 6 tiered leages, with the top only being open to the top 200 ladder players. There is Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond and Masters. Diamond leauge is generally the league where you actually see people who know how to play the game. Meaning they can compete on a basic macro control level that isn't TERRIBLE.

 

 

85% of the playerbase in SC2 is below diamond. So techinically speaking, 85% of the SC2 player base doesn't play the game correctly.

 

Yet a majority of people who complain about balance or illogical stuff is within that 85%.

 

 

I am dealing with that 85% every day on these forums here.

 

Like the people who are trying to say that my screenshots don't mean anything, yet those screenshots come from alderaan and voidstar. And if you are a Rage jug, its your freaking job to run around following the groups of people so that you can get as many kills as possible to keep people off the points. If you are camping a node as a rage jug, you are playing the map role. Your spec is not intended to survive long, so really you are playing your weakest role in Alderaan if you 'play the objective' You should have teammates backing you up. Another player who has longer self preservation should be camping a node so the can live long enough for back up to arrive.

 

So to the people saying im getting pocket healed, EVERYONE ELSE IN THAT GAME WAS GETTING POCKET HEALED. Think with your brains for a moment. The game is designed to have healers. It was a premade v premade in all those screenshots I posted, so you mean to tell me that your assessment of 'me just farming' doesn't mean anything?

 

Oh, I get it. I KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE NOW. The people trying to bring up the point that I am just getting pocket healed are the same players who cry about premades in warzones. They just want to go off and do their own little thing and ignore the rest of the game around them.

 

Get over it, its a multiplayer game. Your job is to fill a certain role. Guess what the role for being a rage jug is. Its to kill everything. Those screenshots were with me playing at objective locations that had some fierce battles, so to tell me, 'ITS JUST A DUMB GRIND GUYS IGNORE HIS NUMBERS" is a pretty herp derp way to think. Its super easy, and while its entertaining to smear baddies all over the huttball court, its boring gameplay design.

 

Have a nice day.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Sogar]

 

The problem with Rage DPS from a damage perspective is:

 

1. Too Focused on Force Smash -

 

2. The fact that Smash is an AoE attack.

 

3. The spec allows us to ignore Crit and Push Power + Surge. With Focus DPS being able to practically ignore Accuracy and Crit, it makes it very easy to pimp the damage of that spec significantly.

 

4. The 4-piece PvP set bonus encourages "Smashing game-play". It just adds to an already bursty spec.

 

 

If Bioware were wise, they'd try to address those issues in a more sensible way, instead of just increasing the CD on Smash, which keeps the burst, just reduces the frequency.

 

1. Make Focus DPS more than about Smash.

 

2. By shifting some damage away from Smash towards other abilities you can lower the Smash damage without gutting the entire spec.

 

3. Make Crit and Accuracy relevant to Focus DPS.

 

4. And finally just replace the 4-piece PvP bonus with something that doesn't further increase our DPS. Preferably something that adds defensive utility like "Removes the activation cost of Focused Defense".

 

 

Those steps would be logical changes to the spec that would address the actual issues without gutting it simply because...I'm disappointed Bioware doesn't seem to realize just what is "broken" with Focus and why.

 

I agree with your analysis ... mostly. Smash being an AoE is not really a problem ... unless you face pugs and you look too much at the damage done in a WZ (which is a bad benchmark). The devaluation of crit is not a true problem too, simply because all DPS specs should remod crit out and get power already ... it just has a larger impact for us.

 

The fun part is that they did exactly what you asked for ... and you don't seem to see it (apart from the PvP bonus obviously but they have an habit of bad design for these).

 

1/ What happens now that force scream and smash have a 12s CD? You have more space in your rotation for ravage and vicious slash and will use those more. And, in 1.2, they are both buffed (damagewise for ravage and on the energy consumption part for vicious slash). You don't get any new skill so those are undoubtly the main benefactor (those and utility skills).

 

2/ They buffed ravage damage and nerf smash damage ... that may not be the tradeoff you were looking for but that's one. Obviously, it is an overall damage nerf. Somehow, the decimate swap is also a damage boost because it gives you points to put in single saber mastery or improved sundering assault.

 

3/ Guess what ravage and vicious slash have in common? They are white damage attacks that benefits from both accuracy and crit.

 

 

The only reason I'm unhappy with the rage change is that rage marauders are too much of a DPS jugg 1.2 version. Soresu seems like the way to go (and soresu bombers will be great) leaving juggs as a niche spec.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Sogar

[Schwarzwald]

I agree with your analysis ... mostly. Smash being an AoE is not really a problem ... unless you face pugs and you look too much at the damage done in a WZ (which is a bad benchmark). The devaluation of crit is not a true problem too, simply because all DPS specs should remod crit out and get power already ... it just has a larger impact for us.

 

The fun part is that they did exactly what you asked for ... and you don't seem to see it (apart from the PvP bonus obviously but they have an habit of bad design for these).

 

1/ What happens now that force scream and smash have a 12s CD? You have more space in your rotation for ravage and vicious slash and will use those more. And, in 1.2, they are both buffed (damagewise for ravage and on the energy consumption part for vicious slash). You don't get any new skill so those are undoubtly the main benefactor (those and utility skills).

 

2/ They buffed ravage damage and nerf smash damage ... that may not be the tradeoff you were looking for but that's one. Obviously, it is an overall damage nerf. Somehow, the decimate swap is also a damage boost because it gives you points to put in single saber mastery or improved sundering assault.

 

3/ Guess what ravage and vicious slash have in common? They are white damage attacks that benefits from both accuracy and crit.

 

 

The only reason I'm unhappy with the rage change is that rage marauders are too much of a DPS jugg 1.2 version. Soresu seems like the way to go (and soresu bombers will be great) leaving juggs as a niche spec.

 

 

your point at the end is what pains me.

 

Soresu, the defensive stance, plays better in Rage then it does in Immortal.

 

Thats my problem with the whole variety of the specs. Immortals tree is nice, but its lacks really good tanking. YOu just gain utility, which is useless in tank gear because your itemization fails and its kinda okay when you are offensive geared.

[Sogar]

your point at the end is what pains me.

 

Soresu, the defensive stance, plays better in Rage then it does in Immortal.

 

Thats my problem with the whole variety of the specs. Immortals tree is nice, but its lacks really good tanking. YOu just gain utility, which is useless in tank gear because your itemization fails and its kinda okay when you are offensive geared.

 

There are two different things.

For PvP, soresu plays better in Rage than in Immortal, and soresu plays probably better in Rage than Shi-cho does. Both feels wrong but preventing juggs from using soresu for rage spec is clearly not a solution (because marauders are superior in shi cho mode).

 

Immortal relies a lot too much on retaliation to be effective for PvP. As you said, the utility gained is nice (new defensive CD, small shield, two instant stuns; decreased CD on push) but you lose too much on the damage area for it ... and force crush's slow is nothing to laugh at.

 

I thought of going hybrid for 1.2 but I haven't found anything to my liking for now ... sadly. Maybe a 18/23/0 build ... but that's a bit off-topic ^^

[kronomandar]

learn to play

 

If you want PVP to be competitive and want Ratings in Warzones to mean anything, then the game must be balanced towards the top players and gear must be equal amongst players.

 

i have no issues with my current state of play

 

you missed my point.

Bioware/EA is a company. a company focused on MAKING MONEY via the production of video games.

in order to make the most money they possibly can, they must tailor their games to appeal to the most players they possibly can.

 

balancing towards the top end does not achieve this. a potential result of doing so would be a drop in subs from the mediocre players (majority).

 

balancing towards the middle of the bell curve risks alienating the top end (minority), likewise with a reduction in subs from that area.

 

between the two options, one can result in the loss of more subs than the other. the smart BUSSINESS decision is to choose the option that results in the least subs lost.

 

how does this come into the 1.2 patch picture re: rage jugs?

well, by looking at the change from the lowest common denominator perspective.

the view from down there is not so great.

 

try to see things from a perspective that is not your own.

you might gain some valuable insights

 

In all seriousness, calling schwarz out on being elitist is asinine and quite frankly, insulting to the amount of work that he's put in on these forums and within his thread.

 

it was not my intent to suggest schwarz was an elitist in the negative sense of the word.

rather i wished to convey that his view was from a player at the top of the pecking order.

Edited March 28, 2012 by kronomandar

[Darthshnooky]

i have no issues with my current state of play

 

you missed my point.

Bioware/EA is a company. a company focused on MAKING MONEY via the production of video games.

in order to make the most money they possibly can, they must tailor their games to appeal to the most players they possibly can.

 

balancing towards the top end does not achieve this. a potential result of doing so would be a drop in subs from the mediocre players (majority).

 

balancing towards the middle of the bell curve risks alienating the top end (minority), likewise with a reduction in subs from that area.

 

between the two options, one can result in the loss of more subs than the other. the smart BUSSINESS decision is to choose the option that results in the least subs lost.

 

how does this come into the 1.2 patch picture re: rage jugs?

well, by looking at the change from the lowest common denominator perspective.

the view from down there is not so great.

 

try to see things from a perspective that is not your own.

you might gain some valuable insights

 

Keep in mind, however, this is only one class. So let's say it's a nerf to Rage Juggs. Rage Juggs in the middle of that curve (and corresponding Guardians) are rightly upset. However, the players of the other 6 classes (14 ACs) feel like BW is listening to their complaints about high AoE damage, being chain-incapacitated by multiple charges, and that charge>push>charge was too much. So that's a MUCH larger majority of players who feel this patch is in their best interest.

 

Now, i'm not defending anything -- but if you're going to make that argument, you have to look at the much bigger picture. Jugg/Guardians are only 1/8 of the classes in the game, and this is only one spec of that 1/8. So the vast majority of players are NOT directly negatively effected by this change. To many of them, it will mean the big bad Rage Juggs with their HUGE AoE (/sarcasm) numbers are being nerfed. Which is what so many people want: every class other than what they play nerfed.

 

I don't really see it this way, and there's no way to know if BioWare/EA sees it this way. But if they do take the perspective you are talking about, nerfing a class theoretically makes everyone else happier, which is a larger portion of the player base.

 

Now, of course, this inevitably backfires when they nerf almost every class in a single patch and piss off about 7/8 of their player base. But that's another post altogether.

[Xavory]

Soresu seems like the way to go (and soresu bombers will be great) leaving juggs as a niche spec.

 

Most of the top Jugs in PvP teams on my server run Soresu 99% of the time in Rage spec. For them, 1.2 is a significant buff.

[Lrdprimus]

Most of the top Jugs in PvP teams on my server run Soresu 99% of the time in Rage spec. For them, 1.2 is a significant buff.

 

 

Here is a problem that might only be on my server.

 

NOBODY plays Rage-Jugg

 

95% of my games I am a lone Warrior in general or there might be 1 Mara running around. If you nerf a class that nobody plays already you might have a serious lack of Juggs running around.

 

Even now all i see are Bh's / Inq-sorc /

 

If Juggs DPS spec is getting nerfed as much as you all say it is (i still dont think so) be ready for a big change later because they will need to buff the dps spec somehow so more people will try and play this Glass Cannon character.

[Marqhill]

Keeping in mind that most of the big heals in the game are actually getting a fairly sizable nerf it stands to reason that the absolutely insane damage output of certain classes should be brought in line with the current state of game balance. I think that all the Focus Guardians/Rage Juggernauts who are talking about quitting the game because of 1.2 are going to feel a little silly when they find their overall performance unchanged regardless of the fact that the number that the game displays at the end is going to be slightly lower. A lot of people think that putting out a huge damage number is really all that matters. Killing enemy players quickly and efficiently before they can heal through wasted DPS is what's most important. I can't count how many times my Vigilance Guardian has gotten more kills and killing blows than Focus Guardians in the same war zone while having put out less damage.

[Goretzu]

Keeping in mind that most of the big heals in the game are actually getting a fairly sizable nerf it stands to reason that the absolutely insane damage output of certain classes should be brought in line with the current state of game balance. I think that all the Focus Guardians/Rage Juggernauts who are talking about quitting the game because of 1.2 are going to feel a little silly when they find their overall performance unchanged regardless of the fact that the number that the game displays at the end is going to be slightly lower. A lot of people think that putting out a huge damage number is really all that matters. Killing enemy players quickly and efficiently before they can heal through wasted DPS is what's most important. I can't count how many times my Vigilance Guardian has gotten more kills and killing blows than Focus Guardians in the same war zone while having put out less damage.

 

That's becasue splash damage stat padding isn't the same thing as effective damage.

 

Same thing applies to tank damage in some cases.

[Vodrin]

 

 

 

Besides which it simply cannot be a buff, there's simply no way you can be doing more damage in 1.2 than you are now, unless their patch notes are wrong, it's just a case of how much it's nerfed.

 

That's not true at all. If you are doing damage more often than before you may have higher DPS despite slightly weaker and less frequent smash hits, and less frequent force scream hits. I'm interested to see just how hard viscious slash will hit on a debuffed target. Yes you need to stack accuracy a bit more, but a 45% crit chance on it with rage return on crit should be interesting.

 

My personal feeling is it will be a bit of a damage nerf, but not as severe as many think. We will have to wait to know for sure, unless you are one of the lucky few that had you character copied to the PTS.

[bananaface]

what people dont realise is what these changes actually do:

dps (singletarget) stays about the same

burst gets lower

sustained gets higher

 

so from a pvp perspective it's defo a nerf.

 

the high burst makes a rage jugg powerfull and actually lets you kill unaware healers on your own or put high pressure on the melee sticking on your healer/team mates.

 

rage is all about tossing out a lot of pressure on the enemy team with high burst.

yes protecting your healers/team with taunts blablabla all have been said all too often is part of it aswell and who said a good rage jugg doesn't do that.

 

who cares rage is mainly designed around smash, it gives the spec it's own play style compared to vengeance.

you love it or you hate it.

 

oh and to some dude here saying "pro rage juggs play in soresu" pls reroll the sims, it's a game more fitting for you.