Why does our slow suck so much?

[Seravis]

Seeing as how we are the only pure melee class in the game I would have figured we would have the most gap closers or the best slow in the game. Unfortunately after playing all 8 classes it turns out I was wrong. We literally have the least amount of gap closers in the game and the WORST slow in the game, and we are the only class with 0 ranged abilities(technically we have a few 10m abilites, but they require us to be in melee combat to begin with and have long CDs).

 

Why does our only slow require rage to use? why does it somehow do even less damage than assault? Why do we have to spend 2 GCDs (Assault>Crippling) to apply our slow unlike half the classes that get theirs added at no cost to abilities in their normal dps rotation? Why does everyone else including the other "melee" classes get a ranged slow? Why does the only pure melee class have the least amount of gap closers on top of this?

 

Lets compare our slow to a pyrotechs slow. Their slow is applied every time they proc their Combustible Gas Cylinder. Which is a lot AND it can be done at 30m. This is all from a class that does about the same damage, but with 80% of that damage outside of melee range AND ignoring armor. So why do they have a snare that automatically applies itself at 0 heat cost and 0 wasted GCDs and at range? Combined with multiple stuns and a grapple and possibly a charge to close distance it just doesn't seem right that they have the superior slow on top of that.

 

Lets look at a marauders slow. First we have to be in melee range, and spend a GCD to build the rage required, and now instead of using assault and building 2 rage and do pitiful damage, we have to SPEND 2 rage to slow our target and do even LESS damage than assault. SO lets see we just spent 2 GCDs using Assault>crippling slash doing negligible damage in order to slow a target. Compare that to ANY other class and it seems like a bad joke.

 

It just makes no sense that the hybrid range/melee classes like powertechs/tankasins get automatic 30m slows that cost them nothing on top of multiple gap closers, but marauders being a pure melee class have only a 4m snare that takes 2 GCDs to apply and only a single gap closer...

 

This isn't too much of an issue against most players(who try to fight us in melee), but once you run into someone that realizes that we have the least amount of tools to get into and stay in melee range of any class it becomes a sad joke. Its how "melee" classes like pyrotechs/tankasins can kite us to death with their superior ranged slows and stuns ALL outside of melee range.

 

I know most marauders are all about having the "hardest class" in the game, and will deny we need any kind of Quality of Life changes, but I just want to see us to have at least an equal slow to the other "melee" classes that doesn't cripple our dps. Though personally I think as the only pure melee class in the game we should have the BEST slow in game, OR the most gap closers.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
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[AcaciaDragon]

Seeing as how we are the only pure melee class in the game I would have figured we would have the most gap closers or the best slow in the game. Unfortunately after playing all 8 classes it turns out I was wrong. We literally have the least amount of gap closers in the game and the WORST slow in the game, and we are the only class with 0 ranged abilities(technically we have a few 10m abilites, but they require us to be in melee combat to begin with and have long CDs).

 

Why does our only slow require rage to use? why does it somehow do even less damage than assault? Why do we have to spend 2 GCDs (Assault>Crippling) to apply our slow unlike half the classes that get theirs added at no cost to abilities in their normal dps rotation? Why does everyone else including the other "melee" classes get a ranged slow? Why does the only pure melee class have the least amount of gap closers on top of this?

 

Lets compare our slow to a pyrotechs slow. Their slow is applied every time they proc their Combustible Gas Cylinder. Which is a lot AND it can be done at 30m. This is all from a class that does about the same damage, but with 80% of that damage outside of melee range AND ignoring armor. So why do they have a snare that automatically applies itself at 0 heat cost and 0 wasted GCDs and at range? Combined with multiple stuns and a grapple and possibly a charge to close distance it just doesn't seem right that they have the superior slow on top of that.

 

Lets look at a marauders slow. First we have to be in melee range, and spend a GCD to build the rage required, and now instead of using assault and building 2 rage and do pitiful damage, we have to SPEND 2 rage to slow our target and do even LESS damage than assault. SO lets see we just spent 2 GCDs using Assault>crippling slash doing negligible damage in order to slow a target. Compare that to ANY other class and it seems like a bad joke.

 

It just makes no sense that the hybrid range/melee classes like powertechs/tankasins get automatic 30m slows that cost them nothing on top of multiple gap closers, but marauders being a pure melee class have only a 4m snare that takes 2 GCDs to apply and only a single gap closer...

 

This isn't too much of an issue against most players(who try to fight us in melee), but once you run into someone that realizes that we have the least amount of tools to get into and stay in melee range of any class it becomes a sad joke. Its how "melee" classes like pyrotechs/tankasins can kite us to death with their superior ranged slows and stuns ALL outside of melee range.

 

I know most marauders are all about having the "hardest class" in the game, and will deny we need any kind of Quality of Life changes, but I just want to see us to have at least an equal slow to the other "melee" classes that doesn't cripple our dps. Though personally I think as the only pure melee class in the game we should have the BEST slow in game, OR the most gap closers.

 

Rupture has a slow that is getting buffed.

 

Crippling slash is very useful at 12 second duration

 

Deadly throw can root

 

Force charge can root and be talented to root longer

 

Force Crush, slow with damage, and builds Shockwave

 

Annhilation can force charge from and ranged and has a reduced cool down

 

Rage can do Obliterate which will root the target in 1.2 and give Rage a nice movement speed buff.

 

Predation allows us to speed up to the target or run away.

 

Ravage can root the target.

 

Force choke is a root technically, just like Ravage can be.

 

I really didnt read your post. there was no real point. We are a melee class, if you want ranged abilities go play another class.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Nmaharg]

Our slow is fantastic. I really have no clue what you're complaining about. The powertech slow is mediocre. Trust me I play both classes. You cylinder doesn't proc nearly as much as you would think, and it only lasts 2 seconds.

 

If anything I would like a true stun, but outside of that Marauders have pretty much the most utility out of any DPS class in the game.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Nmaharg

[glenbruton]

Only level 33 but there seem to be enough slows/immobilises for me considering other classes need a chance to get away from the chainsaw.

[getdownsb]

Our slow is epic. I have no idea where you are coming from.

[Lysico]

Only level 33 but there seem to be enough slows/immobilises for me considering other classes need a chance to get away from the chainsaw.

 

Mine is 33 also and I have zero issues with keeping other players in range.

 

My main is a shadow/tank and I feel the marauder has very similar if not easier tools to keep your target in range.

[PenoNation]

What a waste of 7 paragraphs. You should probably play a different class.

[darth_billy]

i can see your point , imo rupture should have the slow down effect regardless of spec and deadly throw would be really cool if it had the imobilize effect in all specs(because stuns are very important on hutball and choke and fear have big cooldowns) but i am used to it.

 

tbh the only classes tha have a chance against a marauder is sin and operative(if he was all cds you are dead)you can simply stomp everyone and you need the slow only to prevent someone form running away and stop the troll that makes circles around you until you throw up(i.e. sin) not to reach your target , for this purpose you have charge and predatation, if anni it super easy to build stacks(short fuse, witch also should be available for all specs)

 

p.s. i agree that crippling slash is very weak and the rage cost is proposterous BUT it is an istant it is available whenever you need it!

Edited March 26, 2012 by darth_billy

[lollermittens]

Don't listen to the droves of idiots who say that there's currently nothing wrong with Marauder's slow.

 

You hit every issue right on the target:

• Rupture's 30% slow is currently laughable.
  
• We are the only class which needs to use 1 GCD in order to use another GCD which in turn applies a slow.
  
• We are the only class with the least amount of gap closers although we are crucially dependent on them: Crippling Slash and Charge (Rupture if spec'd into it).
  
• It is diificult to maintain sustained DPS when your gap closers all have 1 or 2 more counters to it.
  

 

Very valid points that you brought up. As usual, you're berated by others since they have a complete lack of understanding of other classes, as well as their own.

 

Why do you think Seeping Wound is getting buffed from a 30% slow to a 50% slow? Because Crippling Slash is not an optimal manner of running an efficient rotation: why do I need to apply two slows if a target that has an inherent run speed increase (i.e. other Marauders in Ataru form) in order for me to stay on them? Add on to the fact that we're a class that is basically useless unless we can sic on a target and dish out damage, currently the slow obtained from Rupture by spec'ing into Seeping Wound does not provide an adequate snare. Period.

 

Ignore the L2P insults and other 1-sentence answers which most players will give you. By quickly reading other threads in this forums, you'll soon realize that most people have little to no clue as to how to play a Marauder.

Edited March 26, 2012 by lollermittens

[lollermittens]

Rupture has a slow that is getting buffed.

 

Crippling slash is very useful at 12 second duration

 

Deadly throw can root

 

Force charge can root and be talented to root longer

 

Force Crush, slow with damage, and builds Shockwave

 

Annhilation can force charge from and ranged and has a reduced cool down

 

Rage can do Obliterate which will root the target in 1.2 and give Rage a nice movement speed buff.

 

Predation allows us to speed up to the target or run away.

 

Ravage can root the target.

 

Force choke is a root technically, just like Ravage can be.[/size]

 

I really didnt read your post. there was no real point. We are a melee class, if you want ranged abilities go play another class.

 

1. There's absolutely no reason to make your TEXT SIZE = 4 for you to get your point across... much less having to write in yellow. It makes you look like a prepubescent 12 year old.

 

2. You are simply listing all Sith Warrior abilities which provide some kind of slow/snare/immobilize/root. Those are all different and circumstantial under specific scenarios.

 

3. We only have one true slow and it's Crippling Slash which is nowhere near excellent since it costs 1 Rage and 1 GCD to activate -- in comparison with other classes' slows which are usually off the GCD and are available at no resource cost.

 

4. Immobilize your target with Deadly Throw? What kind of idiot spec's this high into the Carnage tree for PvP?

 

5. Deadly Throw, Force Crush, Obliterate, and Ravage are all situational and are currently in talent trees that are next to worthless in PvP (go ahead and PvP in Carnage/Rage, you'll be a free KB).

 

6. Half of your berating comments relate to the changes incoming in 1.2, which render whatever argument you're trying to prove completely asinine.

 

Next time, do yourself (and save yourself the embarrassement) and everyone else a favor by actually reading what the OP wrote instead of insulting him like a failure of a know-it-all.

Edited March 26, 2012 by lollermittens

[chillshock]

• We are the only class with the least amount of gap closers although we are crucially dependent on them: Crippling Slash and Charge (Rupture if spec'd into it).
  
• It is diificult to maintain sustained DPS when your gap closers all have 1 or 2 more counters to it.
  

 

Try Operative/Scoundrel: they have NO gap closer. Now feel awesome again!

[EvilVictor]

For the OP, what makes us so mobile is that fact that we have what... two attacks that you have to stand still to use? We technically don't NEED to slow targets down like the ranged classes that have to stop to use most of their attacks.

[glenbruton]

1. There's absolutely no reason to make your TEXT SIZE = 4 for you to get your point across... much less having to write in yellow. It makes you look like a prepubescent 12 year old.

 

2. You are simply listing all Sith Warrior abilities which provide some kind of slow/snare/immobilize/root. Those are all different and circumstantial under specific scenarios.

 

3. We only have one true slow and it's Crippling Slash which is nowhere near excellent since it costs 1 Rage and 1 GCD to activate -- in comparison with other classes' slows which are usually off the GCD and are available at no resource cost.

 

4. Immobilize your target with Deadly Throw? What kind of idiot spec's this high into the Carnage tree for PvP?

 

5. Deadly Throw, Force Crush, Obliterate, and Ravage are all situational and are currently in talent trees that are next to worthless in PvP (go ahead and PvP in Carnage/Rage, you'll be a free KB).

 

6. Half of your berating comments relate to the changes incoming in 1.2, which render whatever argument you're trying to prove completely asinine.

 

Next time, do yourself (and save yourself the embarrassement) and everyone else a favor by actually reading what the OP wrote instead of insulting him like a failure of a know-it-all.

 

If anyone is being insulting its you. Most of the guys comments were valid. Esp the ones relating to the INCOMING PATCH. How on earth are they irrelevant?!

[EugeneYap]

Don't listen to the droves of idiots who say that there's currently nothing wrong with Marauder's slow.

 

You hit every issue right on the target:

• Rupture's 30% slow is currently laughable.
  
• We are the only class which needs to use 1 GCD in order to use another GCD which in turn applies a slow.
  
• We are the only class with the least amount of gap closers although we are crucially dependent on them: Crippling Slash and Charge (Rupture if spec'd into it).
  
• It is diificult to maintain sustained DPS when your gap closers all have 1 or 2 more counters to it.
  

 

Very valid points that you brought up. As usual, you're berated by others since they have a complete lack of understanding of other classes, as well as their own.

 

Why do you think Seeping Wound is getting buffed from a 30% slow to a 50% slow? Because Crippling Slash is not an optimal manner of running an efficient rotation: why do I need to apply two slows if a target that has an inherent run speed increase (i.e. other Marauders in Ataru form) in order for me to stay on them? Add on to the fact that we're a class that is basically useless unless we can sic on a target and dish out damage, currently the slow obtained from Rupture by spec'ing into Seeping Wound does not provide an adequate snare. Period.

 

Ignore the L2P insults and other 1-sentence answers which most players will give you. By quickly reading other threads in this forums, you'll soon realize that most people have little to no clue as to how to play a Marauder.

The truth has spoken

[AcaciaDragon]

1. There's absolutely no reason to make your TEXT SIZE = 4 for you to get your point across... much less having to write in yellow. It makes you look like a prepubescent 12 year old.

 

2. You are simply listing all Sith Warrior abilities which provide some kind of slow/snare/immobilize/root. Those are all different and circumstantial under specific scenarios.

 

3. We only have one true slow and it's Crippling Slash which is nowhere near excellent since it costs 1 Rage and 1 GCD to activate -- in comparison with other classes' slows which are usually off the GCD and are available at no resource cost.

 

4. Immobilize your target with Deadly Throw? What kind of idiot spec's this high into the Carnage tree for PvP?

 

5. Deadly Throw, Force Crush, Obliterate, and Ravage are all situational and are currently in talent trees that are next to worthless in PvP (go ahead and PvP in Carnage/Rage, you'll be a free KB).

 

6. Half of your berating comments relate to the changes incoming in 1.2, which render whatever argument you're trying to prove completely asinine.

 

Next time, do yourself (and save yourself the embarrassement) and everyone else a favor by actually reading what the OP wrote instead of insulting him like a failure of a know-it-all.

 

1. Ill use whatever text and font size i want. Dont remember ever asking for your oppinion. With the wall of Text the OP wrote i found it more satisfying to get my point across this way.

 

2. Yep. We have so many slows to use for so many different scenarios, why would anyone say they suck? L2P.

 

3. We arent a ranged class. If you are relying on that slow, this class isnt for you.

 

4. Just because you cant play Carnage properly doesnt make it bad. L2P.

 

5. WOW this really proves it. L2P to the 5th power. You actually think Force Crush is situational. HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.

 

6. This made me lol. Only 2/10(1/5th, 20%, thats if your failure to read properly spills over into lack of math skills) of my comments related to 1.2. L2Read.

 

The only one who is embarressed is you,

 

 

TLDR: Thanks for the laugh!!!!

Edited March 27, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[AcaciaDragon]

Don't listen to the droves of idiots who say that there's currently nothing wrong with Marauder's slow.

 

You hit every issue right on the target:

• Rupture's 30% slow is currently laughable.
  
• We are the only class which needs to use 1 GCD in order to use another GCD which in turn applies a slow.
  
• We are the only class with the least amount of gap closers although we are crucially dependent on them: Crippling Slash and Charge (Rupture if spec'd into it).
  
• It is diificult to maintain sustained DPS when your gap closers all have 1 or 2 more counters to it.
  

 

Very valid points that you brought up. As usual, you're berated by others since they have a complete lack of understanding of other classes, as well as their own.

 

Why do you think Seeping Wound is getting buffed from a 30% slow to a 50% slow? Because Crippling Slash is not an optimal manner of running an efficient rotation: why do I need to apply two slows if a target that has an inherent run speed increase (i.e. other Marauders in Ataru form) in order for me to stay on them? Add on to the fact that we're a class that is basically useless unless we can sic on a target and dish out damage, currently the slow obtained from Rupture by spec'ing into Seeping Wound does not provide an adequate snare. Period.

 

Ignore the L2P insults and other 1-sentence answers which most players will give you. By quickly reading other threads in this forums, you'll soon realize that most people have little to no clue as to how to play a Marauder.

 

^^

Some dont even realize they have no idea what there talking about...