Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) The key to MMORPG viability is "how many new players are coming to the game?" or "how many players are leveling new characters?" when the starting zones are empty, its over for an MMORPG. Why are starting zone numbers so important to MMORPG viability? Because without new players it is very difficult for guilds to recruit and form new guilds or replace losses due to attrition in existing guilds. New blood is the key to guild and MMORPG viability. Lets compare The number of players in WoW's Alliance starting zones on the Maelstrom RP-PvP server to the number of players in the Republic starting zones on the Ven Zallow RP-PvP server from levels 1-20 today, Sunday March 3/25/2012 at 11:00 AM CST. Both servers are medium population. Here are the numbers •Maelstrom Alliance: 1-20 - 28 characters •Ven Zallow Repuplic: 1-20 - 88 characters. The numbers speak for themselves. SWTOR is clearly growing twice as fast as wow by sufficient numbers more than replace any losses due to attrition while WoW is in maintenance mode at best or is slowly losing players. Neither game is dying but SWTOR is clearly more healthy than WoW. You will likely find similar results on most servers in WoW and SWTOR. Edit: Objectively, which is a better recruiting pool for guild leaders, 28 characters scattered across 15 zones or 88 characters in 3 zones? I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday. Only about 1/4 of them were alts. Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15. Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day. ReplyQuoteEdit Feel free to post your results from your server(s). Edited March 25, 2012 by Samaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melacon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 probably because the only other option other than leveling alts is to log off.....but I see what you're trying to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azumio Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If WoW continues to get new-players, it'll turn into a Religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 probably because the only other option other than leveling alts is to log off.....but I see what you're trying to say We have too much to do in SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melacon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) We have too much to do in SWTOR. Really? ok, it's Saturday, my Ops are done for the week...I'm in full Rakata, nothing to craft (which I wouldn't be doing anyway) no mats to gather (companions do that to), can pvp (if you can stomach it after valor 60), FP's have always been pointless (normal Ops are easier and better)..no point in doing dailies anymore, so many credits all ready and don't need tokens, and I'm not an alt guy....So what exactly is "too much to do?" If you say I'm too hardcore than you're right and that's why I cancelled unless 4 whole new bosses in 1.2 keep me and my guild occupied for longer than a month. Edited March 25, 2012 by Melacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Really? ok, it's Saturday, my Ops are done for the week...I'm in full Rakata, nothing to craft (which I wouldn't be doing anyway) no mats to gather (companions do that to), can pvp (if you can stomach it after valor 60), FP's have always been pointless (normal Ops are easier and better)..no point in doing dailies anymore, so many credits all ready and don't need tokens, and I'm not an alt guy....So what exactly is "too much to do?" If you say I'm too hardcore than you're right and that's why I cancelled unless 4 whole new bosses in 1.2 keep me and my guild occupied for longer than a month. No amount of content will keep you and your guild happy. You'll burn through any amount of content they throw at you, and then complain you're bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 No amount of content will keep you and your guild happy. You'll burn through any amount of content they throw at you, and then complain you're bored. Speak for yourself, we are anything but bored. I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday. Only about 1/4 of them were alts. Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15. Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day. When the facts challenge your closely held assumptions and myths, you should reevaluate your assumptions in light of the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Did you allow for alt-play? This game heavily relies on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melacon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm not complaining and not making assumptions, actually, you are lol I'm just asking what there is to do beside level an alt. And you're right, all games these days are boring and people are left with nothing to do, that's the whole point, that's my only complaint I hope you guys enjoy, that's all, but people like myself won't and are just biding time at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Did you allow for alt-play? This game heavily relies on it. I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday. Only about 1/4 of them were alts. Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15. Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday. Only about 1/4 of them were alts. Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15. Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day. Of course you then measured this trend on all servers because the population is sparse on some and heavy on others, which might very well affect the significance of any trends. Right? Then you compared the difference in numbers between PvE, PvP, and RP servers to see if there were trends on any specific type which might shed some light on emigration (not immigration) across server types. Because what you experience isn't the same as what I or another player might. The point I'm getting at is that your "statistics" are shaky at best, and any attempt to accurately judge the number of incoming new players is an exercise in futility. Edited March 25, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Of course you then measured this trend on all servers because the population is sparse on some and heavy on others, which might very well affect the significance of any trends. Right? Then you compared the difference in numbers between PvE, PvP, and RP servers to see if there were trends on any specific type which might shed some light on emigration (not immigration) across server types. Because what you experience isn't the same as what I or another player might. The point I'm getting at is that your "statistics" are shaky at best, and any attempt to accurately judge the number of incoming new players is an exercise in futility. Again, just because facts disagree with your closely held beliefs does not make them wrong. Go take a look on your server(s), prove me wrong if you can. I think you will find a pattern across almost all WoW and SWTOR servers, SWTOR is growing, WoW is in maintenance mode at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathiosLorano Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Both are good mmos both will be around for a long time. Just my 2 cents from playing both. From the recruiting standpoint its pretty much how you recruit on game I guess. Edited March 25, 2012 by KathiosLorano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Again, just because facts disagree with your closely held beliefs does not make them wrong. Go take a look on your server(s), prove me wrong if you can. I think you will find a pattern across almost all WoW and SWTOR servers, SWTOR is growing, WoW is in maintenance mode at best. I have no closely held beliefs. I'm talking about statistics and the nature of what you're trying to prove (or disprove). You can't come to any significant conclusion based on your "research." It leaves way too much to speculation, which highlights a vague sense of confirmation bias in the OP. Edited March 25, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 I have no closely held beliefs. I'm talking about statistics and the nature of what you're trying to prove (or disprove). You can't come to any significant conclusion based on your "research." It leaves way too much to speculation, which highlights a vague sense of confirmation bias in the OP. Recruiting 20 new players including about 5 alts in one day in one zone is neither vague nor speculation. I challenge anyone to do that in wow, there just arent enough new players coming to the game in wow to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Recruiting 20 new players including about 5 alts in one day in one zone is neither vague nor speculation. I challenge anyone to do that in wow, there just arent enough new players coming to the game in wow to do that. How many of those players play both WoW and TOR? Can't viably play both at the same time, and they perhaps spend more of there time here lately. That's just one of many variables your "research" and "statistics" don't account for. Edited March 25, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogozhi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I was thinking the exact same thing last night, on Mandalore the Indomitable, when my class quest took me back to Hutta and Dormund Kaas. There were around 40 and 30 players in each zone. A few, literally about 3, were doing the same as I was, but the rest were fresh players. Now I'm sure there were a few alts in that mix, but for a server that's generally showing low or medium I think it's a pretty decent indicator that people are at least trying the game. Then of course there's this: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/03/blizzard-producer-attributes-drop-in-wow-subscriptions-to-star-wars-the-old-republic.ars?clicked=related_right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmthethird Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Really? ok, it's Saturday, my Ops are done for the week...I'm in full Rakata, nothing to craft (which I wouldn't be doing anyway) no mats to gather (companions do that to), can pvp (if you can stomach it after valor 60), FP's have always been pointless (normal Ops are easier and better)..no point in doing dailies anymore, so many credits all ready and don't need tokens, and I'm not an alt guy....So what exactly is "too much to do?" If you say I'm too hardcore than you're right and that's why I cancelled unless 4 whole new bosses in 1.2 keep me and my guild occupied for longer than a month. you have just ran though a whole load of stuff there, that there is to do. the fact that you listed reasons why you personally don't want to do it, don't mean its not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melacon Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 you have just ran though a whole load of stuff there, that there is to do. the fact that you listed reasons why you personally don't want to do it, don't mean its not there. It's not that I don't want to do any of it, it's that I all ready have....the only thing on that list that I can do still is dailies..fun..and pvp...better to wait since full bm and can't see myself having only that to do..like I said, it's not a hardcore game, I'm ok with that, I'll see what 1.2 brings and leave. Also. it's a free weekend, may explain some of your new players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anaz Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Again, just because facts disagree with your closely held beliefs does not make them wrong. Go take a look on your server(s), prove me wrong if you can. I think you will find a pattern across almost all WoW and SWTOR servers, SWTOR is growing, WoW is in maintenance mode at best. I have little doubt that SWTOR is growing fast, but showing only showing 1 reading from 1 server from each game at only one specific time is not reliable evidence. What would be reliable: Taking a couple dozen servers taken evenly across multiple regions i.e. North America and Europe on both games. Take a reading from each server every day over the course of a week. Take readings during peak times. Obviously this would take considerable effort and several people but could be justifiably called reliable evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 It's not that I don't want to do any of it, it's that I all ready have....the only thing on that list that I can do still is dailies..fun..and pvp...better to wait since full bm and can't see myself having only that to do..like I said, it's not a hardcore game, I'm ok with that, I'll see what 1.2 brings and leave. Also. it's a free weekend, may explain some of your new players... Your opinion of SWTOR end game has nothing to do with the viability of the game. The viability of the game is determined by how many new players are coming to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkirus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Again, just because facts disagree with your closely held beliefs does not make them wrong. Go take a look on your server(s), prove me wrong if you can. I think you will find a pattern across almost all WoW and SWTOR servers, SWTOR is growing, WoW is in maintenance mode at best. Lol! funny! You should come to Stormrage and then say that. Even in a static mode, WoW is still far ahead of any other MMO in terms of "paying" customers. Not saying this because I donot play or sub to TOR, I do and will continue to do so atleast until the middle of this summer. Great game. But the points you have made are very weak.....very very weak. You assume too much Padawan on your own limited experence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaul Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lol! funny! You should come to Stormrage and then say that. Even in a static mode, WoW is still far ahead of any other MMO in terms of "paying" customers. Not saying this because I donot play or sub to TOR, I do and will continue to do so atleast until the middle of this summer. Great game. But the points you have made are very weak.....very very weak. You assume too much Padawan on your own limited experence. I have extensive experience as a guild leader. I have recruited thousands of MMO players across several games and many servers. I know when a game is dying and wow is a dying game. I also know when a game is growing and SWTOR is a growing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 probably because the only other option other than leveling alts is to log off.....but I see what you're trying to say This. It might be partially true (although I seriously doubt that one server from each game is a large enough sample size), but to be honest, most "new" characters in the starting zones are re-rolls. Especially after the announcement of the legacy system. Also, isn't this a free pass weekend, or whatever the **** they call it? A lot of those new characters are not paid subs nor will they actually be staying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonBraun Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I brought my brother in a couple weeks ago, today I spent this morning in Tython with an officer of mine from WoW... This game is great... It has a ways to go, but it will get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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