Salubrie Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lets face it. Any player attempting PvP from 10 to 19 is not going to have any fun. Why? because you are going against players that already have a huge gear difference. Before anyone even brings up the "buff". It is a complete non factor. The expertise you get from gear at 40 breaks the buff in every way. You need only look at the numbers at the end of a match. Level 40 plus will have up to 10 times the healing, damage of lower level players. No i am not exaggerating. If you are unwilling to put in different brackets than at least give the 10 to 19 levels an extra buff so we can survive more than 2 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You need only look at the numbers at the end of a match. Level 40 plus will have up to 10 times the healing, damage of lower level players. No i am not exaggerating. Only if the lowbies are completely undergeared and new MMO PvP. My level 20 Gunslinger is always in the top three on those charts for damage, KBs, and objectives. The real fallacy in your post is assuming that the scoreboard is a good reflection of the game. I've seen level 11s running Civil War be more effective, in terms of actually meeting the objectives, than your vaunted level 40s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meanerr Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 How can people get better if everyone is going to get spoonfed all the time? 1-49 is fine as it is. Lowbies will learn after awhile not to take on a 40+ but instead to hit that tab button to target something more manageable. Premades vs PUGs, now that's another issue. Hopefully BW can implement that I the lower brackets one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draeb Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The current model is fine now. Way better than before. While leveling my newest alt, I was able to kill lvl 40s. There wasn't that much of a difference. Keep practicing you will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iliac Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If you are unwilling to put in different brackets than at least give the 10 to 19 levels an extra buff so we can survive more than 2 shots. This is already in the game. It's called bolster. Look at your buds some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Personally I've had fun as a low level in warzones on multiple characters... I wouldn't be against something like this. It'd be best left for when cross server warzones go in though, when there'll be a big pool of people to match up so people aren't waiting for WZ to pop too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperI Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I disagree with the OP. I brought my alt up through the levels doing a lot of PvP and while I was in my teens and 20s, I regularly beat other players in their 30s and 40s. Your stats are normalized, there is no expertise and you get all the best class abilities in the teens and early 20s. The only thing you don't have yet is the upper tier skill points, which don't make a large difference anyways. There's no reason to split off teens and 20s because it would make queue times so long that they would probably never get a warzone pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I support this. The majority of players are bad already, I don't need level 10s in my games dragging down the team. At least if a lvl 40 is bad, the fact that he has most of his talent points make up for his crappy skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_preib Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 As people have mentioned I think this system works well. One can argue a bolstered 20 compares more favorably with a level 35 say then an unbolstered 20 would stack up against an unbolstered 29 in 'other' systems. I realize certain classes and playstyles hold up better at lower levels then others because of how talents stack up and interweave but it still is actually about as reasonable a system as one could feasibly expect at this stage. If they made warzones cross-server (mixed feelings on the notion) then I could understand lobbying for a split, but until that point it really wouldn't be a good idea on any but the most populated servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I disagree with the OP. I brought my alt up through the levels doing a lot of PvP and while I was in my teens and 20s, I regularly beat other players in their 30s and 40s. Your stats are normalized, there is no expertise and you get all the best class abilities in the teens and early 20s. The only thing you don't have yet is the upper tier skill points, which don't make a large difference anyways. There's no reason to split off teens and 20s because it would make queue times so long that they would probably never get a warzone pop. This all depends on the class. Focus guardians (best guardian pvp dps spec) don't work til they get their 31 point talent. Gunnery commandos are weak as hell until they're in their 30s. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyshar Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) My level 10-19 has beaten plenty of 40-49s in warzones. Ofcourse PvP isn't often 1v1, but that's a good thing, just means I should probably say I've been able to do my part. And ending up in the top 5 on the scoreboard plenty of times (counting players from both factions), and still often in the top 10. And for the record: I hunt for objectives, not medals. I once got 4 MVP (out of 7 cause you can't vote on yourself) votes in a single match, definately being lower level at the time, combine that with most battles getting 3 MVP votes per faction even in the 50s bracket. The entire lack of certain skills (sprint especially) may pose a problem, but it forces you to learn your character's basic skills to use them as effectively as possible. And the lack of skill points isn't fun either (bolster says it increases those, which it doesn't). Adding more level brackets just causes more problems. If people queueing now are already seeing the same people PvPing match after match, it just means that with more brackets they'll have to wait longer and longer to see more of the same people PvPing match after match... if there are even enough people to start a match to begin with. Without expertise it could have all been in the same bracket, then the mornings might not have been dead for PvP. Might be better to alow 50s to Queue up with the rest and negate expertise (or just when there aren't enough players queued up). Splitting people up further will just make people assume more that PvP starts at 50, but starting at 50 can give you a disadvantage (starting with the lack of personal experience and valor). It'd kill PvP, or at least cut off both it's arms. Edited March 25, 2012 by Lyshar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperI Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 This all depends on the class. Focus guardians (best guardian pvp dps spec) don't work til they get their 31 point talent. Gunnery commandos are weak as hell until they're in their 30s. Etc. So you find a spec that works in the interim before you have the full allotment of skill points. The additional skill points do not make or break a class and I've played every one of them to high levels. You may be slightly weaker when missing key skills, but it's not nearly enough of a reason to split off more unneeded brackets that will only make people wait forever to get a match. 10-49 pvp is extremely competitive even when facing someone with a difference of 10-20 levels. And as a side note, gunnery spec in PvP is doing it wrong, Assault Specialist is the PvP spec for commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleMagick Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 If the <=49 bracket gets cut in half then queue times will also be cut in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 More brackets are unnecessary. It works fine as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealthan Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lets face it. Any player attempting PvP from 10 to 19 is not going to have any fun. . Speak for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceasaigh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Same here as a level 20 I was pwning level 40's. Lowbi PvP is highly competitive because it's not so much dependent on having better gear. As long as you're at your level in gear you can compete with the best of them. At 50 if you don't have 500+ Expertise you might as well stick your head between your arse because you don't have a prayer until you get it. Lowbi PvP is what SWTOR PvP is capable of being. Edited March 25, 2012 by Ceasaigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lowbi PvP is highly competitive because it's not so much dependent on having better gear. As long as you're at your level in gear you can compete with the best of them. It is important to mention though that if your gear is falling behind, then bolster will not make up for that. Your gear needs to be right for your level in order to get the full advantage of bolstering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boissi Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I did 290k damage in huttball on my powertech at level 11. Bolster system works so well that you're never too weak as a lowbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khanic Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Once I hit 10, I grab my AC, my first pvp daily and get to work. I have no problem with 40's, 30's, or even high 20's. You have to use the lower levels to learn your class, your role, and how to best pvp with your play style. Everyone plays differently but I get a smile on face when I take out a lvl 40 who is more focused on trying to take care of our higher level team members while a lowbie is tearing him down. Plus I'm actually surprised by the amount of low 40s who do not have the lvl 40 pvp gear, making it even easier. Sure we don't have sprint yet and our trees are as flat as a french women but we make up for with ankle biting, learning, and plane out right cannon fodder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreMerc Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Any player attempting PvP from 10 to 19 is not going to have any fun. Why? because you are going against players that already have a huge gear difference... You need only look at the numbers at the end of a match. Level 40 plus will have up to 10 times the healing, damage of lower level players. No i am not exaggerating. 10-19 only matters if a player is completely NEW to the game. Every time I queue WZ on a character (at level 10) I end up pretty high at the end. In fact, my most recent char consistently did over 120k damage, and usually went 36-40 kills 2-3 deaths, AND usually some objective points. In a lot of cases I was looking at over 3 MVP votes. This was consistent... and wearing only gear I picked up on the newbie planet. If you've got problems with low level characters it's either because the player a) just needs more pvp practice or b) they're completely new to the game In the case of b) the player simply needs to refer to a) If you're having trouble as a lower level character there's a myriad of sources to improve. Forums, videos, and surprise... you aren't the only person playing that class. Ask players that do well in your class how they do it. It really isn't hard, if you find your performance is inadequate you do what you can to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadNewzzz Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 IF any split should be done it should be 10-13 and 14-49 since below 14 you dont have sprint and that skill is just to important to miss. But how many games does it take to get out from the 10-13 bracket? 3 or 4 ? so no point. if you feel weak now just wait for when you hit 50 a lvl 14 is stronger in his bracket then a fresh 50 is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Please split WZ between 1 to 30 and 31 to 49 Not until they do server merges because the low pop servers have enough problems now with long queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceasaigh Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Honestly 10-49 PvP is the most fun I have ever had in PvP. The matches are competitive you win some you lose some it's just simply enjoyable. Then you hit the 50 bracket and experience the Expertise gear gap and realize the side that wins the most has the advantage. Wish there was a way to turn off EXP gain and stay in the 30's. I would PvP all day long at low levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemsilenkov Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The most annoying thing here that 10-14 lvls do not have sprint yet. )) And it seems that bolster affects different levels different ways. 10-25 the most influence almost overpower 25-30 little less influence 30-40 almost balance and comfortable play 40-49 almost zero influence. Influence is tied with overall balance, gear, damage, survivability. Found that being 45 it is more harder to kill someone than being 15 lvl ))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloGreen Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Lets face it. Any player attempting PvP from 10 to 19 is not going to have any fun. Why? because you are going against players that already have a huge gear difference. Before anyone even brings up the "buff". It is a complete non factor. The expertise you get from gear at 40 breaks the buff in every way. You need only look at the numbers at the end of a match. Level 40 plus will have up to 10 times the healing, damage of lower level players. No i am not exaggerating. If you are unwilling to put in different brackets than at least give the 10 to 19 levels an extra buff so we can survive more than 2 shots. Nah not really, bolster works well imo. All you would is make the queue times worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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