Please stop making PVP main though in balance

[ZDProletariat]

Exactly. ZDP's post was one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

 

If you actually think that, please explain why I am wrong. Otherwise you are the one who looks dumb. Not to mention childish.

[Apokelypse]

pvp is more fun and it has skill involved pve is just CC that and it is easy pvp takes teamwork,skill,and tactics.It is most fun!

 

Blistering ignorance like this is why I avoid pvp...seems to be an inordinate amount of players like this every time I pvp.

 

You telling us you don't use CC in pvp?

 

You telling us that teamwork is not required in pve? Everyone attacking different mobs, not interrupting key abilities, not healing your teammates...that isn't a recipe for failure in both pvp and pve?

 

Kill order of targets does not matter in both?

 

Where is this magical skill difference then?

 

The only difference is that pve content is scripted to a degree and as such, can become predictable over several times completing the same content...where as pvp involves players making all of the decisions. This makes pvp either challenging or super face roll if the opponent does not know how to play. So pvp can possibly be no skill required at all if your opponent has no skill. Pve by definition will always require a base minimum of skill and cooperation.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Apokelypse

[Drake_Hound]

Signed sorry , this is a PVE game , and now focus shift to PvP cause simply put PvP is free epics ...

 

If you want real PvP , then winners get 100% losers get 5% .

There will make the lazy gits stay away from PvP , get real team work and effort going.

 

Honestly in PvE you either succeed or wipe , there isn´t any reward when you wipe all night.

Why should PvP get reward for losing ?

See pvp is just cry baby game for free epics .

 

So if this want to be a real PvP game , then winner gets all loser get nothing , just like PVE .

No butts skill etc , I want to see how much people really have skill when stakes are this high.

And enjoying hours and hours of PvPing for no gains .

[Jandi]

Oh good, so we - the healers - are the scapegoat for too easy boss-encounters now, because we do our job keeping the raid alive

 

Seriously, try running hardmode/nightmare OPs yourself before you post crap like that. And BW aparently doesn't have a clue either what they're talking about.

 

The healers have enough to do in the OPs. What's making endgame too easy is the too easy boss-encounters, where you don't need any movement or tactics but only zerging the boss down as fast as possible... currently it's a pure DPS-race.

 

Anything else then Sorcerers is allready too powerless to be considered as healers in hardmode/nightmare OPs, so why exactly do they nerf mercenaries? If anything then they should've buffed mercenaries, so that they can actually heal during the encounters without running hot as fast as they do, especially when there's alot of AoE-damage incoming.

Sorcerers will still be able to do their AoE-healing like before, whereas the mercenary can still only heal one half of the raid, and then it's targetting through all players shooting them with the blasters, which simply doesn't cut it compared to the 3k healing a single Sorc can heal every player with by simply casting one spell.

 

The nerf for mercenaries is only because of people being too s***** to kill mercenaries in the BGs, which is laughable easy once you interrupt and stun them for a few seconds.

 

Stop. Making. ****. Up. Mercenaries are getting nerfed because the healing is too high due to residue. The easiest hard mode operations we had was with 2 mercs. Nightmare is only MARGINALLY harder, don't try it with a raid full of columi geared people and it's not THAT hard.

 

Like I said earlier in this thread -you can currently overheal boss mechanics, that's stupid. If you are having trouble healing hardmode/nightmare with a merc it's either your gear, the tanks gear, or your ability to play the class. If your raid is taking AoE damage, tell them to learn to play instead of standing in things. The few fights that have consistent AoE damage are not in any serious amounts.

 

You even say it's just a zergfest dps race in most bosses... that's because you can heal through EVERYTHING!

[Drake_Hound]

Stop. Making. ****. Up. Mercenaries are getting nerfed because the healing is too high due to residue. The easiest hard mode operations we had was with 2 mercs. Nightmare is only MARGINALLY harder, don't try it with a raid full of columi geared people and it's not THAT hard.

 

Like I said earlier in this thread -you can currently overheal boss mechanics, that's stupid. If you are having trouble healing hardmode/nightmare with a merc it's either your gear, the tanks gear, or your ability to play the class. If your raid is taking AoE damage, tell them to learn to play instead of standing in things. The few fights that have consistent AoE damage are not in any serious amounts.

 

You even say it's just a zergfest dps race in most bosses... that's because you can heal through EVERYTHING!

 

then nerf residue , it is the poorest excuse ever to nerf a class .

Cause stacking same classes of certain combinations , make the class overpowered.

And nothing is fixed about it , in either mercenary / trooper dps or healing .

 

So again wrong balance scaling , so stop making excuses .

And nothing is hard in a game made for casuals .

Honestly nothing is hard nowadays in gaming , cause the casual crowd took over.

And they took over for a good reason $$$$$$$ .

 

So cause hardcore can play there toon beter then anybody ellse and make everything OP .

Doesn´t mean half the wannabee are that kind of skill level .

[kmontyw]

PvE and PvP are two different games, and balancing for one always negatively impacts the other. Give me an MMO without any PvP, and just concern design and development with PvE. PvP has a completely different set of requirements, and deserves it's own venue i.e. a separate game.

 

Unfortunately, the games industry hasn't figured this out yet and still tries to combine both - always badly, and always with big problems either way.

[Hotbox]

PvE and PvP are two different games, and balancing for one always negatively impacts the other. Give me an MMO without any PvP, and just concern design and development with PvE. PvP has a completely different set of requirements, and deserves it's own venue i.e. a separate game.

 

Unfortunately, the games industry hasn't figured this out yet and still tries to combine both - always badly, and always with big problems either way.

 

SWG brilliantly combined both in the early days. You could PVE to your hearts content while a bloody brawl broke out around you.

 

And break out they did-- cantinas were mobbed with firefights, the streets ran red while out in the boonies people farmed raw materials for goods and quested for mysterious loot. There was no dual system-- they simply reduced PVP damage as a percentage of overall damage. Gear was gear and it was good.

 

I liked that system. There's nothing worse than looting the most powerful lightsaber in the galaxy if it can't cut through that griefing mutha's brother armor.

[Kabjat]

no its not ur bad pvp is bigger than than pve now sorry

 

Now that my eye has stopped twitching....

 

Aside from the clairvoyance regarding the OP's game play ability or lack thereof, I must reluctantly agree with this barely intelligible statement. PVP IS a big deal. Like it or not, OP, the need for balance is just as important for pvp'ers as it is for pve'ers. And pvp is here to stay and a hugely growing demographic in MMOs.

 

I really just cannot figure out why MMO devs don't separate the stats. It would make the game LOADS more fun for all involved and likely save development time and headache. It's a thing I've wondered for a long time...I'm sure there are reasons beyond my finite and overly simple mind to comprehend.

 

Why can't stats and abilities change according to what the player is doing so that the pve'ers and pvp'ers can both have their epeens and stay out of each other's business?

 

I'm sure there are reasons why it isn't done, but I will never understand them.

 

*shrug* Not like I care anyway xD

[Jandi]

 

So cause hardcore can play there toon beter then anybody ellse and make everything OP .

Doesn´t mean half the wannabee are that kind of skill level .

 

This game isn't the special olympics and, finally, BioWare realized their mistakes of making content easy. Easy content means people get bored. No one really asking for insanely hard content ala vanilla WoW where trash packs would wipe the raid for hours. While I fondly remember aq40 man (yes, that was a RAID, not a group instance) and the original Naxxramas, they were a bit over the top.

 

However, what we currently have is a joke. The first time we went into EV hardmode, we cleared everything on first night except SOA and that was ONLY because the encounter is/was buggy as all hell. When they released the rest of karaggas, do you know what happened? We oneshotted every single boss on hard. Granted, all of us know our stuff and have been raiding since EQ1 or early WoW but still, that's just TOO easy.

 

And to reiterate my point, the reason it's too easy is precisely because healing is so overpowered. What's the point of mechanics like in the puzzle boss in KP that reduces the tanks armour by 150% when you can still just overheal it? What's the point of a raidwide missile barrage in the first boss of EV when you can just overheal it? What's the point of Gharrs punces and melee AoE's when you can just overheal it? This on hard and nightmare, btw, before more people throw out the "hey, try it on hard"

Edited March 26, 2012 by Jandi

[Snakeyees]

Eugh you little babies, FINALLY! an MMO that takes pvp seriously, Oh what you dont like it? go play WoW or somthing.

 

 

WANT PVP? Join the military Fight for a Cause stop hiding behind your Computer screen. Do something for your Country. Or go Play Battlefield 3 A game designed for PVP

Edited March 26, 2012 by Snakeyees

[Epitome_]

Not entirely sure how "fighting in Iraq" is relevant to this forum post. Also, don't understand why your making references about "Playing Battlefield 3" which is fps based, not MMO related. Every MMO I’ve experienced involved PVP, and in my opinion made the game that much better as a whole. Lastly, the "hiding behind a computer screen" what are you talking about?

 

To respond to the actually post

 

From my experiences playing MMOS, I have noticed one thing... that is, there will always be that "powerhouse class". It would be nice to think of a perfect solution where every class was built to perfection, but obviously that has yet to be shown. Simply put, when you have more popularity in a particular area, one is going to focus their energy there. People can rant about this and that; to the point they're red in the face. PVP in my opinion is the reason I play SWTOR, so some may disagree, but that is what differentiates one another from the crowd.

 

We seriously cannot go around disapproving others for either playing PVE or PVP. We simply need to accept this concept that some rather PVE, then PVP or vice versa.

[ragamer]

The problem with "PvP" vs "PvE" perception is...

 

...Each side lacks experience from the other side gameplay.

 

So what you usually see ppl discussing is not that a given change is PvE or PvP driven is that how each person perceives each change from their side of the game.

 

Then you have the well known fact that for some reasson the PvP section of a game is ALWAYS the noisier on the forums... And by this, I mean that there is a higher proportion of PvP driven players that post on forums. There is also a higher proportion of PvP players reading the forums... It's obvious, a given PvP player results is driven by what other players do that, in turn, makes very valuable to be up-to-date on what the others are doing.

 

With the above bias explained on what you see on the opinions in the forums...

 

...I don't agree with the OP. There are changes triggered by PvP and others by PvE, in fact, most of the changes triggered on 1.2 are just altering the efficiency of the cycles classes use to fight in long combats... Which has always a bigger impact on PvE than PvP.

 

For example, the Medpack change is another clear example, already confirmed it's a direct consequence of how tight BW wants to adjust the difficulty on PvE encounters (BW now just need to be sure that the basic premise, which is, "on PvP players stay for longer OOC" is true for all classes & builds, which is not the case ATM).

 

If I do a lookback excercise, in fact, the main bulk of changes on classes is mainly PvE because they basically aim at killing Hybrids, to increase the attention each class has to pay to play (Removing easy rotations) and affecting efficiency over long fights. There have been some changes related to the duration of CC (And associated changes to resolve) and the specific kill of some particularly popular PvP build, but you have never seen an "across the board" PvP driven change as we are having on 1.2 for PvE.

 

 

To end the loop with the beggining... What I have seen is ppl thinking is their side of the game fuelling each and every change.

 

 

Regarding what the main attention of the Devs is on a MMO, I learned to follow a simple rule... Check the main progress mechanism of a given MMO (Loot on this one) and then proceed to evaluate how much teaming effort (Teams is what distinguish a MMO from other types of game) is needed for a player to progress... The activity that requires more is the main drive behind game changes. You can perceive such a HUGE difference on SWTOR...

 

Which shouldn't be a surprise... A story driven MMO were story is stricly triggered by PvE actions is already a loud enough statement for me.

Edited March 26, 2012 by ragamer

[Goretzu]

This game is intended to be PvE mainly as pvp as a side note, just as space combat is a side note.

 

I feel like the devs are making decisions in regards to balancing pvp efforts and not really taking into account pve. Do people agree or disagree, please explain your reasonings.

 

 

 

 

You cannot have PvP and not balance it - it is as simple as that.

[RenDoomblade]

First of all PVP for me is the "main thing" because I want my oponents to react diferently depending on the situation...

 

Anyway. PVP balance can be achieved without harming PVEbalance.

1. Reduce item bonus 2/3 (items are overpowered making newbies canon fodder)
   
2. Remove grouping option entirely
   
3. Invent a system that allows only equal numbers of players on the battlefield (waiting bank)
   
4. Reduce out of stealth dmgoutput (atm 40% of life gone with one hit...) from smuggler and agent
   
5. Be really careful with the legacy options. ^^
   

 

Ilum

Introduce NPCs and quests like in World of Warcraft's "Alterac Valley"