Is blade storm worth it for sentinel? Watchmen specifically

[EasymodeX]

Why are we talking about solo PvE?

[RG_jhanlec]

No it's typically not worth it. SOmetimes there is a situation that calls for it, but that is very rare

 

Like this poster said, it is extremely situational.

 

Can be nice when in PvE on weak targets for the stun to follow up with hilt strike.

 

In PvP if a target is near low health, you have the extra focus/rage and you are rooted but in range. This may drop them below the 25% health for finisher; after finisher if they still have 5% health or so, it may kill them, etc...

 

Aside from that, it is a huge focus/rage sink and it isnt buffed up like it is for combat/carnage.

 

Took me a bit to get used to watchman/annihilation after running carnage/combat because this naturally fit into the rotation for me; however I felt rage/focus starved. Dropped it based on some tips and voila, no more problems and DPS went up in turn.

 

 

GL

[Keja]

At least in PVE, I really am not in a situation where I have to worry that much about something costing an extra point or two of focus. I usually have PLENTY of focus to do whatever I want to do. So to me the argument "Blade Storm does more damage and is ranged but Slash costs less focus" is silly. I'm hardly ever "hard up" for focus.

 

Three things:

 

- If you "have plenty of focus," you're not maximizing your damage.

 

- Blade Storm does not do significantly more damage than Slash - even if the offhand misses, Blade Storm only does ~35% more damage...for 2x the cost.

 

- If you want to stun weak/normal mobs in PvE, use Force Sweep.

 

Edit:

witelightnin is pretty much spot on. The only thing I'd add is that you can use Opportune Strike after the Leap.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Keja

[ComputerSaidNo]

I thought Slash was 3 focus and Blade Storm was 4 focus?

 

Also, when an ability says 'strikes with both weapons if dual-wielding' does that mean it inflicts double the damage or is the damage spread out over both weapons?

[Dawginole]

I thought Slash was 3 focus and Blade Storm was 4 focus?

 

Also, when an ability says 'strikes with both weapons if dual-wielding' does that mean it inflicts double the damage or is the damage spread out over both weapons?

 

Second question is no.

 

First question depends on your spec. Combat with Zen reduces cost of blade storm, blade rush, and slash. That's the crux of combat is getting to zen to spam blade storm and blade rush.

[ComputerSaidNo]

So then in regards to the watchmen spec, I know Blade Storm will cost more, but damage per focus is it on par with Slash?

[Dawginole]

So then in regards to the watchmen spec, I know Blade Storm will cost more, but damage per focus is it on par with Slash?

 

Dmg/s? I doubt it. Blade Storm will hit for more. Ataru Form in Combat crits for 2,500 regularly. Will likely be somewhat lower for Watchman.

 

The thing is you have no down time on Slash. So theoretically with no

Parsing to proove this I would say if one never ran out of focus for 1 min and spammed Slash non-crit and then for 1 min used Blade Rush after every CD criting all of them I would still think one would do more dmg as Watchman in the Slash test.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Dawginole

[EasymodeX]

Blade Storm should be used on IAs or Assassins who are popping their 100% dodge cooldown in order to burst or finish them (but not to do general damage to them).

 

Any other use of Blade Storm for Watchman is Very Likely A Bad Idea Although You Could Potentially Fabricate A Silly Scenario Where It Would Be Effective.

[ComputerSaidNo]

Dmg/s? I doubt it. Blade Storm will hit for more. Ataru Form in Combat crits for 2,500 regularly. Will likely be somewhat lower for Watchman.

 

I mean if you divide the total damage they each do by how much focus they cost, does Blade Storm or Slash do more damage per 1 Focus point? (I'm not 50 yet with my sent so I'm not sure about the damage output of each ability later on). The reason why I ask this is because if you're getting more damage per focus out of Blade Storm, would it not be better to use? Unless there are other factors that I'm missing, which very well could be

[Dawginole]

I mean if you divide the total damage they each do by how much focus they cost, does Blade Storm or Slash do more damage per 1 Focus point? (I'm not 50 yet with my sent so I'm not sure about the damage output of each ability later on). The reason why I ask this is because if you're getting more damage per focus out of Blade Storm, would it not be better to use? Unless there are other factors that I'm missing, which very well could be

 

All dmg procs should be compared to time. There are umpteen methods for preserving or creating focus just like there are many ways to preserve gas. But just like gas ultimately comes down to miles per gallon, DD's always come down to damage per second or minute (same diff).

 

You're question asking if one ability uses focus more efficiently is a good one. But ultimately, assuming all battle scenarios are the same, there will only be one method for each comparative ability that is the most efficient in use of focus. And at that point the question then again comes down to which does the most dmg in one minute.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Dawginole

[Keja]

I thought Slash was 3 focus and Blade Storm was 4 focus?

 

Also, when an ability says 'strikes with both weapons if dual-wielding' does that mean it inflicts double the damage or is the damage spread out over both weapons?

 

With the Focused Slash skill in the first tier of the Watchman tree, Slash refunds 1 focus, so you need 3 to use, but it only consumes 2.

 

If you look on your character sheet, there's a section that specifically spells out the damage added by the off-hand.

 

So then in regards to the watchmen spec, I know Blade Storm will cost more, but damage per focus is it on par with Slash?

 

It's not even close.

 

As I said before, Blade Storm does not do significantly more damage than Slash - even if the offhand misses, Blade Storm only does ~35% more damage...for 2x the cost.

[Lazyrix]

Yes it is worth it, but it has specific uses.

 

It should be used when imperial agent or smugglers pop their dodge cooldown. It is a guaranteed hit as opposed to a guaranteed miss with a melee attack. It is also beneficial to use bladestorm occasionally against people who pop cooldowns which increase their defenses, or when you have your melee accuracy reduced by abilities such as pacify/obfuscate.

 

Damage per focus it is not as efficient as slash. However it still does more damage on average than slash, and such should on rare occasion be used when you are heavy on focus and need additional damage/pressure.

 

It has obvious applications when you are at range, being kited, rooted etc.

 

If you aren't using bladestorm as any sentinel spec, you're doing it wrong.

 

If this has helped you or you have any other questions about sentinel feel free to come discuss things at my livestream listed in my signature below.

[Keja]

It should be used when imperial agent or smugglers pop their dodge cooldown. It is a guaranteed hit as opposed to a guaranteed miss with a melee attack.

 

In the case of an Operative/Scoundrel, I prefer to use Stasis because they usually pop that cooldown (which lasts 3 seconds) right before they vanish. You might hit with Blade Storm, but they'll still be gone.

 

The other issue is that you're still wasting focus. You're better off using Strike - you'll build focus even if it misses - and then continuing your normal attacks when the ability drops.

 

The only exception is if the Blade Storm will certainly kill them.

 

Damage per focus it is not as efficient as slash. However it still does more damage on average than slash, and such should on rare occasion be used when you are heavy on focus and need additional damage/pressure.

 

A very, very small amount greater.

 

You'll do more damage by sticking to a normal attack sequence with the bread and butter abilities - especially if you're heavy on focus.

 

If this has helped you or you have any other questions about sentinel feel free to come discuss things at my livestream listed in my signature below.

 

I'll stick with the official forums, thanks.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Keja

[Asphen]

I cut a dude in half today critting with Bladestorm for 3142, with 31 points in the Watchman tree.

 

 

As soon as I saw it hit, I instantly thought of this thread.

[Lazyrix]

In the case of an Operative/Scoundrel, I prefer to use Stasis because they usually pop that cooldown (which lasts 3 seconds) right before they vanish. You might hit with Blade Storm, but they'll still be gone.

 

The other issue is that you're still wasting focus. You're better off using Strike - you'll build focus even if it misses - and then continuing your normal attacks when the ability drops.

 

The only exception is if the Blade Storm will certainly kill them.

 

 

 

A very, very small amount greater.

 

You'll do more damage by sticking to a normal attack sequence with the bread and butter abilities - especially if you're heavy on focus.

 

 

 

I'll stick with the official forums, thanks.

 

I never said stasis wasn't a viable option for countering a dodge cooldown, merely showing that bladestorm does have a use even when watchmen specced. If you choose to strike spam on someone because they popped a dodge cooldown rather than continue to output damage, so be it. But don't come on here claiming I am wasting damage by using bladestorm when someone has a dodge cooldown up or a accuracy reducing cooldown on me, and you're spamming strike to build focus. It's simply not true.

 

I'm not disagreeing that there are better rotations that don't include blade storm, simply stating that bladestorm is a high damaging ability and useful in burst situations when you are heavy on focus.

 

Feel free to stick with the official forums. I encourage people to get information from every source possible, but I can assure people that my stream has a good amount of quality players who frequent it and have quite a bit of knowledge on every class.

 

Thanks =]

[WrentheFaceless]

Is Watchman the prefered PVP spec? I just hit mid 20ish on my Sentinel, going combat, and my guildies recommended that 20 was a good level to start pvp as you have most of your usefull skills.

[Zag_Stratos]

Go Watchman for leveling. Combat and Focus are not as strong but still viable at L50.

 

Watchman will make your life easier thanks to all the utilities in the spec.

[Lazyrix]

Is Watchman the prefered PVP spec? I just hit mid 20ish on my Sentinel, going combat, and my guildies recommended that 20 was a good level to start pvp as you have most of your usefull skills.

 

With the current state of talents watchmen is the preferred pvp spec by most. Combat has great burst potential but is not efficient enough at generating centering or providing enough utility to the group at this point to really be considered top tier by most. This will change in 1.2 when valor is moved to tier 1 of watchman and the transcendence movement speed is moved to deep in the combat tree.

 

 

 

TBH as a sentinel you really won't gain most of your useful talents until the late 30s early 40s but you should still have a great time pvping in your 20s.

[prideaux]

Since getting Pommel Strike, Blade Storm has become so useful... because currently pommel strike almost one shots mobs (im lvl 42), so in itself blade storm isnt very useful unless using it as basically a range attack to stop a mob momentarily... when killing a group of say three normal mobs in a group i will...

 

1. use force leap on first mob, then precision slash to get a a few more points build up (that mob is now at least half dead)

2. Change to second mob, use Blade Storm, followed by Pommel Strike (that mob is now dead or almost)

3. change to third mob Force Sweep (followed rapidly by Cyclone Slash if need be) and watch the first two mobs and almost the third fall down dead

 

thats all within a few brief seconds, my only complaint is the cool down on Pommel Strike so i cant use it and Blade Storm more and on ^mobs

[Quor]

Only bad players refuse to use it. Once you get Dispatch it becomes less useful but remember that it is your only ranged attack and is very useful for setting up a Pommel Strike if Force Sweep is on CD. It also hits like a truck and is useful as a finisher when Dispatch is on CD.

 

For PvE = Situational but not useless. You're usually better off using Slash or Force Sweep though since they are more efficient and Slash will apply stacks of Overload Sabre.

 

For PvP = Very useful ability to punish kiters that aren't in Dispatch range. It also has perfect accuracy and can't be defended against unlike Dispatch and Merciless Slash. Keep it on your hotbar at all times.

 

This.

 

That Op healer at 5% just pop evasion (100% dodge for 3s)? Blade Storm will still hit the little bastard and probably even finish him off if it crits.

[EasymodeX]

Don't use Blade Storm for kiters unless they will die from it and you cannot wait for Dispatch to cool down.

 

It's just inefficient.

[bliapis]

This is just me speaking, but I've never once, ever in the history of my Sentinel, had Dispatch not hit. Just sayin.

 

Personallyi evade dispatches when i use pacify on marauders/juggernauts ^^

 

lovelly!

[EasymodeX]

Yeah, Pacifying a Sent/Guardian and watching their Dispatches completely miss makes me giggle inside. Shadows and their execute as well. Hilarious **** and so predictable.

[vuec]

This is just me speaking, but I've never once, ever in the history of my Sentinel, had Dispatch not hit. Just sayin.

 

I've seen mine get parried and miss many times over, and not because I got pacified. So it happens.

 

To the OP, worth it is always based on the situation. Are you rooted? Sure its worth it. Almost all attacks are a hotkey away for me. Everyone of our abilities has a use. Do I use it on bosses in Ops? Hell no. The chance of it criting isn't high in Watchmen spec and it eats 4 focus compared to my 2 for slash. I can't think of a situation where I would use it in pve really, except for fun, or the stun to use the hilt strike. But I do that after using Force sweep on mobs.