SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[snowgar]

swtor its a rpg.

 

wow its a MMO.

 

the different.

 

and swtor -1M players.

 

wow +9M

 

what else?

[Terrix]

I feel terrible about the current state of affairs of swtor, but I have to call it. Swtor will shut down it's last server in under 2 years unless things change drastically. And by drastically i mean:

 

Crafting needs a major revamp. Not just adding new recipes and aesthetic stuff like that. It needs way more substance. Needs to feel necessary. None save biochem is worth it (even with 1.2 patch, i don't see this changing much)

 

Scrap Illum.

 

Reballance Pvp.

 

Streamlined LFG.

 

And whoever the hell is designing their gear needs to be tarred and feathered. Seriously, that's the best you could come up with?!

 

There are so many useless things in this game, it's literally ridiculous. Vast landscapes that don't give you anything lucrative for exploring; A rail flight mini-game; that seriously stops being useful at level 50; absolutely pathetic end-game content; and the list goes on. Uselss space ports. Seriously BW, just take them out of the game.

 

This game would have functioned 100,000,000 times better as a third-person action shooter mmo, where you had complete control over your character. So many things Anyone in your community knew would work better, but all you wanted was to make a quick buck. Nice thought EA, Get us all hyped over your anwser to activision-blizzards "WoW", then tell us to **** off, you're not worth it. Come back to me when you want to design battlefront 3, thee mmo. Until then, unsubbed. (yes i'm jaded, and yes this is nerd rage. I waited 3 years for this?! eff that, I'll go do something worth the effort.)

[Vyradder]

Why does TOR have to emulate WoW in any way at this point?

[BlackZoback]

swtor its a rpg.

 

wow its a MMO.

 

the different.

 

and swtor -1M players.

 

wow +9M

 

what else?

 

Could have sworn that this was a MMORPG. Are all my friends, guild mates, and the hundreds of people I see everyday.... just illusions made up in my sick sick mind?

 

... not again

[Andryah]

And whoever the hell is designing their gear needs to be tarred and feathered.

 

So, are you saying you want tar & feather skins for armor then??

 

 

Oh, and what are your Lotto number picks for this week? Prophets must be tested before being believed you know, even on a gaming forum.

[Bluerodian]

The cross server lfg destroyed wow...that's my opinion, but that's the way I feel about it. It bred the worst gaming community in existence. Players weren't accountable anymore, for gear, skill, patience, or Respec for other players. Wotlk was the end of the niche market that was the mmo before it, it has become a content vending machine. If Swtor goes the way of lfg server wide, that's fine with me...but giving in to wows model of get it quick, don't sweat the community is a bad move. While I do think that they def need to improve the way you get groups, I think cross server is the death nail. Maybe mmo's are just not for me anymore, maybe the days of tight nit communities is dead. I blame blizzard for it. I blame blizzard for ruining what used to be the best gaming communities around.

 

As far as Swtor having to compete with the wow of today, I hope Swtor takes the other path and be the alternative to 15 yr olds with add. I can dream.

 

I feel much like you. A living fossil of the MMO industry. I would like TOR to work more to differentiate itself from WoW, not become more like it, but all indications of greed in the upper echelons don't have my hopes up.

 

People rag on me because I preferred SWG. Simple reason, it wasn't WoW, but that's a discussion for a different board.

 

Point is, though, I would be happy if TOR was not SWG2, as long as it also wasn't WoW2. I'd like to see this game evolve to the point it actually makes people use their grey matter in more than just story and quit trying to make mechanics so blatantly obvious. A small example would be color coding of gear names. I can see it in TOR being useful for orange gear, but that's it. The rest should be all the same so as to force players to actually read itemization and stats instead of gushing over the color of a piece of text.

[DarthTHC]

I feel much like you. A living fossil of the MMO industry. I would like TOR to work more to differentiate itself from WoW, not become more like it, but all indications of greed in the upper echelons don't have my hopes up.

 

If greed truly motivates decisions around here, then you can expect them to do whatever will bring them the greatest profit.

 

Assuming profit margin rises more quickly than costs after the first 500k users, one would think the best way to increase profit would be to find a way to increase the number of subscribers.

 

The best way to increase the number of subscribers is to figure out what will bring turn the largest number of non-subscribers into subscribers, and do that.

 

Free weekends - free trials - is a great start.

 

After that, well, WoW has by far the largest subscriber base of any MMO. Even if we assume all SWTOR subscribers are also WoW subscribers, there are about 8 million untapped subscribers playing WoW.

 

How do we get WoW subscribers to play SWTOR? First, we get them to try it. Then we make it feel enough like home, but with a few "cool" perks, to incent them to stick around after trying it.

 

If we stick with that theory - and it's only a theory - it would behoove BW to make the game (mechanics) more like WoW, wouldn't it?

 

The alternative is figuring out how to turn non-MMO players into MMO players and I think that might be harder than turning WoW players into SWTOR players.

 

This is, of course, if greed is the overriding motivation for decisions...

[Bluerodian]

If greed truly motivates decisions around here, then you can expect them to do whatever will bring them the greatest profit.

 

Assuming profit margin rises more quickly than costs after the first 500k users, one would think the best way to increase profit would be to find a way to increase the number of subscribers.

 

The best way to increase the number of subscribers is to figure out what will bring turn the largest number of non-subscribers into subscribers, and do that.

 

Free weekends - free trials - is a great start.

 

After that, well, WoW has by far the largest subscriber base of any MMO. Even if we assume all SWTOR subscribers are also WoW subscribers, there are about 8 million untapped subscribers playing WoW.

 

How do we get WoW subscribers to play SWTOR? First, we get them to try it. Then we make it feel enough like home, but with a few "cool" perks, to incent them to stick around after trying it.

 

If we stick with that theory - and it's only a theory - it would behoove BW to make the game (mechanics) more like WoW, wouldn't it?

 

The alternative is figuring out how to turn non-MMO players into MMO players and I think that might be harder than turning WoW players into SWTOR players.

 

This is, of course, if greed is the overriding motivation for decisions...

 

While I can see your point, which is why I called myself a living fossil, I see it becoming a case of quantity over quality. My viewpoints are antiquated, and I accept that, but in response to the spot up there in red.

 

McDonald's has also sold billions of burgers, becoming a giant of the fast food industry, but I wouldn't exactly call it fine dining.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Lethality]

I feel much like you. A living fossil of the MMO industry. I would like TOR to work more to differentiate itself from WoW, not become more like it, but all indications of greed in the upper echelons don't have my hopes up.

 

People rag on me because I preferred SWG. Simple reason, it wasn't WoW, but that's a discussion for a different board.

 

Point is, though, I would be happy if TOR was not SWG2, as long as it also wasn't WoW2. I'd like to see this game evolve to the point it actually makes people use their grey matter in more than just story and quit trying to make mechanics so blatantly obvious. A small example would be color coding of gear names. I can see it in TOR being useful for orange gear, but that's it. The rest should be all the same so as to force players to actually read itemization and stats instead of gushing over the color of a piece of text.

 

There seems to be a miscomprehension here... it's not that we want TOR to become like WoW. But there are features TOR is missing which WoW standardized, and are now no-brainers to include in a AAA MMO. That's what, at least I mean, when I say "more like WoW"

 

For example... GW2 is nothing like WoW. But it has all of the "features" you expect to make online gameplay with friends more fun and manageable... even encouraged.

[Bluerodian]

There seems to be a miscomprehension here... it's not that we want TOR to become like WoW. But there are features TOR is missing which WoW standardized, and are now no-brainers to include in a AAA MMO. That's what, at least I mean, when I say "more like WoW"

 

For example... GW2 is nothing like WoW. But it has all of the "features" you expect to make online gameplay with friends more fun and manageable... even encouraged.

 

It's not directly about the features, but more about the fundamental design choices.

 

For instance, why Fixed factions? My character is a BH, and has even pointedly told a Darth that she doesn't give a tinker's damn about the Empire, only her pay. It seems illogical then that the Republic would keep on sending soldiers to a messy death against Bounty Hunter Extreme rather than just buy her off.

 

It also rather smears in the face of Lore, like the developers have never heard of a Jedi falling to the dark side and joining up with a Galactic Empire. Hell, the first contemporary Sith Warriors were all Fallen Jedi.

 

Also, why the Raid or Die model? Even one of the devs said that a bunch of people whacking away at a single monster is nor heroic, and yet that's what we got.

 

Finally, on a deeper psychological level, why bandy to this notion of being the super-hero of the universe? I'm sure it works for some people, but I find it a bit...two-dimensional. It lacks any sort of real depth when you remove any form of adversity or struggle.

 

Now I'm not saying these are either good or bad. They just leave me scratching my head and asking why.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Lethality]

It's not directly about the features, but more about the fundamental design choices.

 

For instance, why Fixed factions? My character is a BH, and has even pointedly told a Darth that she doesn't give a tinker's damn about the Empire, only her pay. It seems illogical then that the Republic would keep on sending soldiers to a messy death against Bounty Hunter Extreme rather than just buy her off.

 

It also rather smears in the face of Lore, like the developers have never heard of a Jedi falling to the dark side and joining up with a Galactic Empire. Hell, the first contemporary Sith Warriors were all Fallen Jedi.

 

Also, why the Raid or Die model? Even one of the devs said that a bunch of people whacking away at a single monster is nor heroic, and yet that's what we got.

 

Finally, on a deeper psychological level, why bandy to this notion of being the super-hero of the universe? I'm sure it works for some people, but I find it a bit...two-dimensional. It lacks any sort of real depth when you remove any form of adversity or struggle.

 

Now I'm not saying these are either good or bad. They just leave me scratching my head and asking why.

 

I agree, especially on the story part... I don't require being the hero of the galaxy to have fun.

 

It's so spoon-fed in this game and especially BW's single player games, it really panders to the lowest-common-denomenator.

 

The raid or die thing, it really feels to me like that wasn't the original intent for end game... but we'll never know.

[DarthTHC]

While I can see your point, which is why I called myself a living fossil, I see it becoming a case of quantity over quality. My viewpoints are antiquated, and I accept that, but in response to the spot up there in red.

 

McDonald's has also sold billions of burgers, becoming a giant of the fast food industry, but I wouldn't exactly call it fine dining.

 

The premise behind my post was that greed is the motivating factor behind BW decisions, as theorized by the poster to whom I replied.

 

McDonald's makes a crapton more money than Morton's, right?

[Bluerodian]

The premise behind my post was that greed is the motivating factor behind BW decisions, as theorized by the poster to whom I replied.

 

McDonald's makes a crapton more money than Morton's, right?

 

Oh yes. McDonald's makes more money than just about every other restaurant, and it's terrible!

 

It's like standards in this day and age have just slipped away.

 

Where the MMO industry is concerned, it seems less nowadays about making a game for the sake of the game, but rather for the sake of the money and as such, with that comes the need to pander to mass appeal which waters down the overall game structure.

 

But as I said, I'm antiquated. I preferred MMOs back when they were niche items before WoW came on the scene.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Shingara]

There seems to be a miscomprehension here... it's not that we want TOR to become like WoW. But there are features TOR is missing which WoW standardized, and are now no-brainers to include in a AAA MMO. That's what, at least I mean, when I say "more like WoW"

 

For example... GW2 is nothing like WoW. But it has all of the "features" you expect to make online gameplay with friends more fun and manageable... even encouraged.

 

These standardized features in wow, how many of them are part of the core game and not addons exactly ?

[DarthTHC]

Oh yes. McDonald's makes more money than just about every other restaurant, and it's terrible!

 

It's like standards in this day and age have just slipped away.

 

Indeed. I don't eat there and I don't play WoW (any more).

 

But they're very different. WoW was far and away the best MMO out there when I was playing it. In my opinion, anyway. It probably still is, in a lot of peoples' opinions. At least ~10M, right?

 

But I never thought McDonald's was the best restaurant ever.

 

SWTOR could do a whole lot worse things than implementing some of WoW's features.

 

But Morton's would be dead nuts foolish to try to copy anything from McD's.

[Varghjerta]

Oh yes. McDonald's makes more money than just about every other restaurant, and it's terrible!

 

It's like standards in this day and age have just slipped away.

 

Where the MMO industry is concerned, it seems less nowadays about making a game for the sake of the game, but rather for the sake of the money and as such, with that comes the need to pander to mass appeal which waters down the overall game structure.

 

as I said, I'm antiquated. I preferred MMOs back when they were niche items before WoW came on the scene.

 

Please take a breath and realise that everything you hold and keep (not counting humans And i would say 100 % that i agree (i rather fight a boss 15 times knowing that i maybe get it tehn killing the same 100 times while knowing i will rewarded)

Edited March 27, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Sarfux]

While I can see your point, which is why I called myself a living fossil, I see it becoming a case of quantity over quality. My viewpoints are antiquated, and I accept that, but in response to the spot up there in red.

 

McDonald's has also sold billions of burgers, becoming a giant of the fast food industry, but I wouldn't exactly call it fine dining.

 

But that big mac sauce is sooo gooodd and addicting!!! I need one now!

[RabidPopcorn]

These standardized features in wow, how many of them are part of the core game and not addons exactly ?

 

I have played WoW without addons since cata I think and the standardized features are plenty - they basically integrated certain popular addons into the game, like quest helper, atlas, and all the general UI stuff like cosmos/ctmod.

 

 

While I can see your point, which is why I called myself a living fossil, I see it becoming a case of quantity over quality. My viewpoints are antiquated, and I accept that, but in response to the spot up there in red.

 

McDonald's has also sold billions of burgers, becoming a giant of the fast food industry, but I wouldn't exactly call it fine dining.

 

wait....so if a game is popular it has to be bad? So.. we can't have a fine dining restaurant that's also popular?

 

btw, MMOs suffer when there aren't enough players, e.g. 'light' population servers.

[Shingara]

I have played WoW without addons since cata I think and the standardized features are plenty - they basically integrated certain popular addons into the game, like quest helper, atlas, and all the general UI stuff like cosmos/ctmod.

 

 

from last i played wow it had no ui modding, atlas loot i wouldnt say is something needed and quest helper is in this game.

 

The only standardized features that are part of wows core game is cross server battlegrounds, ranking and random dungeon finder be it server wide only or multi server wide aka a battlegroup. guildbanks is also another standardized feature i would say.

 

As nearly everything in that list is in 1.2 or coming soon so what other standardized features is within wow that is missing within swtor that isnt in wow via an addon.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Shingara

[Varghjerta]

If greed truly motivates decisions around here, then you can expect them to do whatever will bring them the greatest profit.

 

Assuming profit margin rises more quickly than costs after the first 500k users, one would think the best way to increase profit would be to find a way to increase the number of subscribers.

 

The best way to increase the number of subscribers is to figure out what will bring turn the largest number of non-subscribers into subscribers, and do that.

 

Free weekends - free trials - is a great start.

 

After that, well, WoW has by far the largest subscriber base of any MMO. Even if we assume all SWTOR subscribers are also WoW subscribers, there are about 8 million untapped subscribers playing WoW.

 

How do we get WoW subscribers to play SWTOR? First, we get them to try it. Then we make it feel enough like home, but with a few "cool" perks, to incent them to stick around after trying it.

 

If we stick with that theory - and it's only a theory - it would behoove BW to make the game (mechanics) more like WoW, wouldn't it?

 

The alternative is figuring out how to turn non-MMO players into MMO players and I think that might be harder than turning WoW players into SWTOR players.

 

This is, of course, if greed is the overriding motivation for decisions...

Ybasic assumption i wrong (it isny turing it is keeping)

And old players mostly do reject the turn of evnets that swtor have taken

[Tsaritsin]

If greed truly motivates decisions around here, then you can expect them to do whatever will bring them the greatest profit.

 

Assuming profit margin rises more quickly than costs after the first 500k users, one would think the best way to increase profit would be to find a way to increase the number of subscribers.

 

The best way to increase the number of subscribers is to figure out what will bring turn the largest number of non-subscribers into subscribers, and do that.

 

Free weekends - free trials - is a great start.

 

After that, well, WoW has by far the largest subscriber base of any MMO. Even if we assume all SWTOR subscribers are also WoW subscribers, there are about 8 million untapped subscribers playing WoW.

 

How do we get WoW subscribers to play SWTOR? First, we get them to try it. Then we make it feel enough like home, but with a few "cool" perks, to incent them to stick around after trying it.

 

If we stick with that theory - and it's only a theory - it would behoove BW to make the game (mechanics) more like WoW, wouldn't it?

 

The alternative is figuring out how to turn non-MMO players into MMO players and I think that might be harder than turning WoW players into SWTOR players.

 

This is, of course, if greed is the overriding motivation for decisions...

 

Of course it is, to think otherwise would be naive in the extreme, these Companies are not Charities, the purpose is Profit, big numbers, and everything is a "punt"

 

WoW was a punt, hard to believe, but it was, Blizzard got lucky, it ballooned out of control, and gobbled up all the pie, Blizzards lasting contribution to the Games industry is that they demonstrated just exactly how big the pie is,

 

The pie is not infinite, it's a finite, and now everyone wants a piece of that pie, because its easy Money, and its big Money,

 

So everything is a punt, but its a clever punt, its a punt with a safety net built in, yeah a nice little net to stop you hitting the floor hard, if you hit the floor hard, your out the Game, go ask the boys who did APB,

 

The safety net is the reason why there is no genuine innovation taking place in the MMO market, if you push the boudaries, wander to far out into space, your net is gone, your punt contains far to much risk.

 

So, what is this "Safety Net" ?

 

Its a standard, you build to a standard, a working guaranteed pre-set, a Game that complies to a standard set of rules that will guarantee you a profitable return on your initial investment, so that if the punt fails, you still made a profit.

 

And the "Punt" ?

 

The punt is a waiting game, your waiting for a spark, a spark that ignites the fire, spreading out of control, publicizing and popularizing your product to such an extent that it threatens to transcend the boundries between being a mere product and a Religion,

 

If the punt works, you just hit it BIG, the money that will roll in will be staggering,

 

If the punt fails, it don't matter, your safety net just saved your ***, returned a profit, your still in the Game, the Money Game.

 

So don't go expecting new ideas or innovation or creativity in the MMO market anytime soon ok,

 

Because these Big Money boys have grown very attached to that Safety net,

 

And who can blame them ?

 

It is after all, free easy Money.

 

[Bluerodian]

wait....so if a game is popular it has to be bad? So.. we can't have a fine dining restaurant that's also popular?

 

btw, MMOs suffer when there aren't enough players, e.g. 'light' population servers.

 

It's fine to be popular, as long as you don't lose track of the quality of the experience.

[Azzras]

from last i played wow it had no ui modding, atlas loot i wouldnt say is something needed and quest helper is in this game.

 

The only standardized features that are part of wows core game is cross server battlegrounds, ranking and random dungeon finder be it server wide only or multi server wide aka a battlegroup. guildbanks is also another standardized feature i would say.

 

As nearly everything in that list is in 1.2 or coming soon so what other standardized features is within wow that is missing within swtor that isnt in wow via an addon.

 

I have to disagree with you here.

 

LFG, guild banks, etc. are not the core of the game, but essentially 'addons' that Blizzard implemented over many years after release.

 

The 'core' of the game is in the environment and characters played, and even those can be altered over time.

[gullfisk]

Agree and WoW is handing out free 80's like candy. That tells me the big dog is scared of the new big kid on the block.

 

Swtor is not a big kid on the block.

Its not anywhere close. It had a good playerbase the first 2 months, but people got tired of fps issues, bugs everywhere and nothing to do endgame.

 

The patch is too late. EA rushed this game out too soon, it wasnt done on release.

Just look at the Ilum failure.

 

Swtor will be free to play in about a year. And even then, not alot of people will play it.

[Shingara]

I have to disagree with you here.

 

LFG, guild banks, etc. are not the core of the game, but essentially 'addons' that Blizzard implemented over many years after release.

 

The 'core' of the game is in the environment and characters played, and even those can be altered over time.

 

core features, not core of the game. But you get my point none the less. alot of these so called standardized features arnt features at all, they were developed by 3rd part add on creaters in the most part and it seems only a few mmos actualy create there own systems along these lines of which bioware is one of them and doing it themselves.

 

With bioware doing this they are doing something even blizzard hasnt been able todo, create a game that isnt dependant on addons and 3rd partys to develope for there game. It also means that no matter what comes patch day all these so called standardized features will be upto date and the only thing you will have todo is patch your game.