SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Alkiii]

I do hope you appreciate the irony of your post You seem like the type who would. I also hope you didn't sit there and type it out with a straight face because that would be unreasonable.

 

Aside from that, there's not much more to say. I'm talking about Bioware, you're talking about you. I'm talking about standards within a genre of gaming that is largely uniform across the board (aside from a handful of niche games), you're talking about fruit. I'm talking about it in the academic sense, you're playing beach ball with a fat man.

 

There's not much more to say, as I said To you, at least.

 

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r4/Alkii/reviewer.png

[Alkiii]

Ya know, if one's retirement was based purely on how fast the money EA/BW/LA invested in developing Star Wars The Old Republic turned a profit ... then it might be important. But it isn't. Whatever monies went into making the game makes no difference to me personally because I'm getting my 50¢ a day's worth of video gaming fun with friends. If people put as much effort into changing the world as they do ragging on a video game in a forum . . . oh nvm. Too much to ask.

 

Well said.

[Guildrum]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much,

 

So don't.

[MWEH]

I will agree with you in that I too, would like a little more sand in my themepark. However, I'm not going to come to these forums and tell the world what an awful game this is and I certainly am not going to compare it to anything else out there. It's just a moot point to do so.

 

I agree with your statement as well. I play the game for what it is. Are there some things I would like to see added? Of course, but that's in every game I've ever played.

 

One shining beacon is that thanks to the internet, things can and will be added to this game. If they will listen to the player base and respond accordingly, I think they could really put something together here.

[Esproc]

At 68 years old, I can assure you that being objective about my entertainment value is a very important factor in my decision making process when it comes to gaming. If I wanted WoW features to be the norm for all games, then why bother playing anything else other than WoW?

 

Bioware doesn't have to include a damn thing in their video games from other games if they don't want to. Contrary to popular belief, Bioware isn't owned by Blizzard and they're quite capable of putting what they want into their video games. Money has absolutely nothing to do with it. Neither does time. Why? Because if the product is successful and exceeds projection forecasts, then it's a success. Both from a financial investment standpoint and an entertainment standpoint.

 

I think they've delivered and I'm pleased.

 

So true. Why play here if you want WoW, or is it you don't, but don't fully realize this.

[indelible]

At 68 years old, I can assure you that being objective about my entertainment value is a very important factor in my decision making process when it comes to gaming. If I wanted WoW features to be the norm for all games, then why bother playing anything else other than WoW?

 

You are NOT being objective. You have said that everything YOU wanted it to do is being done, so you are pleased. THAT isn't objectivity.

 

Don't come in here and talk down to people, wearing your age like a badge of honour. I couldn't care less how old you are, how many kids you have, what you do for a living or anything of the sort. All I care about is the points you make and in this thread you have made a contradictory statement, that you are being objective whilst also saying that Bioware is doing what you want them to do. The clear implication there, whether you intend it or not, is that you are NOT being objective.

 

And as for your "entitled brats" comment, you really need to work on your manners. Also there is nothing entitled about our point. We are saying that a basic level of service, including "standards" (even if they are unspoken) has been established across the genre (spanning many games). Bioware delivered a game that didn't adhere to them in some ways, and we're perfectly within our rights to voice our concerns about that, the Dungeon Finder fiasco being a good example. Just because when you were a kid/young adult everything was slower and more tedious doesn't mean we have to tolerate everything being slower and more tedious.

[Azzras]

GW2 Preorder April 10th.

 

That's all that matters right now.

 

Enjoy your pink butterfly combat animations and micro-transactions.

[Frostvein]

You are NOT being objective. You have said that everything YOU wanted it to do is being done, so you are pleased. THAT isn't objectivity.

 

Don't come in here and talk down to people, wearing your age like a badge of honour. I couldn't care less how old you are, how many kids you have, what you do for a living or anything of the sort. All I care about is the points you make and in this thread you have made a contradictory statement, that you are being objective whilst also saying that Bioware is doing what you want them to do. The clear implication there, whether you intend it or not, is that you are NOT being objective.

 

And as for your "entitled brats" comment, you really need to work on your manners. Also there is nothing entitled about our point. We are saying that a basic level of service, including "standards" (even if they are unspoken) has been established across the genre (spanning many games). Bioware delivered a game that didn't adhere to them in some ways, and we're perfectly within our rights to voice our concerns about that, the Dungeon Finder fiasco being a good example. Just because when you were a kid/young adult everything was slower and more tedious doesn't mean we have to tolerate everything being slower and more tedious.

 

Well said.

[Shingara]

You are NOT being objective. You have said that everything YOU wanted it to do is being done, so you are pleased. THAT isn't objectivity.

 

Don't come in here and talk down to people, wearing your age like a badge of honour. I couldn't care less how old you are, how many kids you have, what you do for a living or anything of the sort. All I care about is the points you make and in this thread you have made a contradictory statement, that you are being objective whilst also saying that Bioware is doing what you want them to do. The clear implication there, whether you intend it or not, is that you are NOT being objective.

 

And as for your "entitled brats" comment, you really need to work on your manners. Also there is nothing entitled about our point. We are saying that a basic level of service, including "standards" (even if they are unspoken) has been established across the genre (spanning many games). Bioware delivered a game that didn't adhere to them in some ways, and we're perfectly within our rights to voice our concerns about that, the Dungeon Finder fiasco being a good example. Just because when you were a kid/young adult everything was slower and more tedious doesn't mean we have to tolerate everything being slower and more tedious.

 

Objective = something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish; purpose; goal; target.

 

So as bioware are doing something that are inline with his objective he is infact being objective.

 

Adjective

 

being the object or goal of one's efforts or actions.

 

not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

 

intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

 

being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject ( opposed to subjective).

 

of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Shingara

[Bluerodian]

Nevermind. Edited March 26, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Alkiii]

You are NOT being objective. You have said that everything YOU wanted it to do is being done, so you are pleased. THAT isn't objectivity.

 

Guess you missed the post where I said I would like a little more sand in my themepark. Please feel free to accuse me of things that aren't true if it makes you feel better.

 

Don't come in here and talk down to people, wearing your age like a badge of honour. I couldn't care less how old you are, how many kids you have, what you do for a living or anything of the sort. All I care about is the points you make and in this thread you have made a contradictory statement, that you are being objective whilst also saying that Bioware is doing what you want them to do. The clear implication there, whether you intend it or not, is that you are NOT being objective.

 

I think you're misunderstanding what my replies mean, but I will say this ... My age is a badge of honor my friend. I am a veteran that watched kids (like many of the ones posting in this thread) lose their lives defending a country they loved. You may not care, and you have every right not to, but I do care. I wear my age with honor, whether you like it or not. I also have the right to have a rebuttal in an open forum discussing a topic that I'm interested in. Maybe you should care about others and less about video game contents? Maybe?

 

Bioware is doing what I want them to do ... they're providing enjoyable entertainment for me. Where's the contradiction there? There are plenty of things I would like to see in SWTOR, but I have better things to do than complain on forums about them. That's the difference between me and you. You're a vocal critic with no basis for anything you say. Then again, neither am I, but I play games for fun, not for getting all worked up and picking them apart as if it hurts me personally.

 

And as for your "entitled brats" comment, you really need to work on your manners. Also there is nothing entitled about our point. We are saying that a basic level of service, including "standards" (even if they are unspoken) has been established across the genre (spanning many games). Bioware delivered a game that didn't adhere to them in some ways, and we're perfectly within our rights to voice our concerns about that, the Dungeon Finder fiasco being a good example. Just because when you were a kid/young adult everything was slower and more tedious doesn't mean we have to tolerate everything being slower and more tedious.

 

Judging by your responses, my manners are no more off than yours. But it's ok, you can continue to preach from that soap box and tell me how wrong I am. I will continue to disagree.

 

There is plenty of entitlement in your point. You want what other games have in this game. You call them "standards." You're not happy without these "standards." This is a classic example of "self-entitlement."

 

When I was a kid, I was shot at with real guns and real bullets. If you think that that is "slower and more tedious," then I think you misunderstand what real combat is. I can assure you, many of my friends didn't have a "resurrect at medcenter" option. I wouldn't expect you to understand the pace at which my life has spanned out. I would hope that you would.

 

 

At the end of the day, we can just agree to disagree. k?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Alkiii

[Lethality]

WoW, really, that was so released incomplete and buggy...more complete? for a Panda maybe, but maybe that's why the release of Mop and pandarian Monks.

 

Who says that a new game wants the "would be 'standard' for an MMO". Perhaps, if you hadn't noticed, this MMO has a name that is SWTOR and I never saw it listed as part of WoW Xpack or any other MMO Xpack, did I miss something? Or is it BW wants it's own path and not the "standard" everyone else has and used and , well, "standard" seems to be failing.

 

It's all about Content, unless you don't read, pay attention to adverts, [spacebar] race and RUSH every bit of content on every game ever and miss the point of some, this one any ways, that is all about content.

 

/waves hand This game, SWTOR, is all about content, You want ---------------> over there.

 

Default defensive response.

 

Try and think objectively for a minute... you know this to be true.

[Alkiii]

Nevermind.

 

 

lol! I read your post and started scratching my head (because I'm as confused as anyone on some words in the English language) ... so thank you for removing it before my head exploded.

[Esproc]

Default defensive response.

 

Try and think objectively for a minute... you know this to be true.

 

Read to attack, parry, riposte of the back and forth before taking one segment out of context.

[RabidPopcorn]

Objective = something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish; purpose; goal; target.

 

So as bioware are doing something that are inline with his objective he is infact being objective. unlike

 

Adjective

 

being the object or goal of one's efforts or actions.

 

not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

 

intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

 

being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject ( opposed to subjective).

 

of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.

 

Clearly when interpreting the meaning of the words we have to take into account the entire sentence or paragraph or even more, that is context. (the 'contextual approach', e.g. in statutory interpretation)

 

As such, it is clear that the meaning of 'objective' he is using refers to this:

"Of a person or his or her judgement: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts; impartial, detached."

(Definition 8, quoted from the Oxford English Dictionary)

 

This use of the word 'objective' is often contrasted with 'subjective'.

Subjective is defined in plain English as:

"Pertaining or peculiar to an individual subject or his mental operations; depending upon one's individuality or idiosyncrasy; personal, individual."

(Definition 4, quoted from the Oxford English Dictionary)

[Azzras]

Guess you missed the post where I said I would like a little more sand in my themepark. Please feel free to accuse me of things that aren't true if it makes you feel better.

 

 

 

I think you're misunderstanding what my replies mean, but I will say this ... My age is a badge of honor my friend. I am a veteran that watched kids (like many of the ones posting in this thread) lose their lives defending a country they loved. You may not care, and you have every right not to, but I do care. I wear my age with honor, whether you like it or not. I also have the right to have a rebuttal in an open forum discussing a topic that I'm interested in. Maybe you should care about others and less about video game contents? Maybe?

 

Bioware is doing what I want them to do ... they're providing enjoyable entertainment for me. Where's the contradiction there? There are plenty of things I would like to see in SWTOR, but I have better things to do than complain on forums about them. That's the difference between me and you. You're a vocal critic with no basis for anything you say. Then again, neither am I, but I play games for fun, not for getting all worked up and picking them apart as if it hurts me personally.

 

 

 

Judging by your responses, my manners are no more off than yours. But it's ok, you can continue to preach from that soap box and tell me how wrong I am. I will continue to disagree.

 

There is plenty of entitlement in your point. You want what other games have in this game. You call them "standards." You're not happy without these "standards." This is a classic example of "self-entitlement."

 

When I was a kid, I was shot at with real guns and real bullets. If you think that that is "slower and more tedious," then I think you misunderstand what real combat is. I can assure you, many of my friends didn't have a "resurrect at medcenter" option. I wouldn't expect you to understand the pace at which my life has spanned out. I would hope that you would.

 

 

At the end of the day, we can just agree to disagree. k?

 

I agree with this statement, and Semper Fi.

[YeknomStun]

I kinda like not having a dungeon finder, I like knowing who I'm bringing with me to a FP vs rolling the dice and getting stuck with a mouth breather.

 

I've said it before, a global LFG channel should have been in at start, and it would alleviate a lot of the challenges with finding people to group with.

 

Not saying I am against a dungeon finder, just that if their intent was not to have one, the default inability to communicate cross planet without creating a custom channel was a major oversight, as it discourages world exploration and multi tasking.

Edited March 26, 2012 by YeknomStun

[Shingara]

Clearly when interpreting the meaning of the words we have to take into account the entire sentence or paragraph or even more, that is context. (the 'contextual approach', e.g. in statutory interpretation)

 

As such, it is clear that the meaning of 'objective' he is using refers to this:

"Of a person or his or her judgement: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts; impartial, detached."

(Definition 8, quoted from the Oxford English Dictionary)

 

This use of the word 'objective' is often contrasted with 'subjective'.

Subjective is defined in plain English as:

"Pertaining or peculiar to an individual subject or his mental operations; depending upon one's individuality or idiosyncrasy; personal, individual."

(Definition 4, quoted from the Oxford English Dictionary)

 

ye thats exactly what i said. why are you repeating it ?????????

Edited March 26, 2012 by Shingara

[Eillack]

Wow lets see...a game that just came out or ones that's been around for manty years....wonder who has more of what.....?

[Sequiturian]

I still have a WoW account that is active even though I don't play much. I'm waiting for MoP to be released since my level 85s are bored of doing dailies and I am not much for the Cata raids and dungeons.

 

I like the Star Wars feel of this game, really. I wish I could continue to subscribe to this game because over all it is fun and the stories are interesting (at least the first time around.) However, at this point it is so unplished that I have to give it a low score on release. I'll point out a few places where I'm picky.

 

1) Zoning in WoW is almost completely transparent on all PCs. Whether it be the zeppelins or the portals, there is never any noticible delay. Going into buildings and into and out of instances feels instantaneous. However, SWTOR is unplayable on my wife's PC as quests/missions require her to wait up to 5 - 7 minutes to start playing the conversations, to get into her ship, to get out of her ship, getting out of elevators and ending conversations to that she can be ready for the ensuing fight.

 

2) WoW flightpaths make perfect sense and have all been tested. Yesterday on Alderaan we learned to a new flight point and it had no connecting light paths. Nothing on our map indicated where the missing flightpoint was. When we finally did discover it, we flew back from the main hub and the taxi actually went through a solid rock and a building (granting some quest along the way - not sure which one. But it was possibly H2+) and kept flying where it should have crashed.

 

3) Crafting is horribly hard compared to WoW mainly due to having to send companions on missions which are not even available. For example I need Underworld Compound. I send a companion to get some. They return after using my money and fail (Master, I exceeded your expectations??!!??), Only now I go to send them again or send another companion and all I see in Underworld Gifts! Underworld gifts I don't need nor want and no choice for UW compound or metal!!! I have to sometimes craft 25 to 35 of a green item to get a blue recipe. Now all my mats are gone and the recipe is useless until I farm some more.

 

4) Only 3 skills allowed and most require a fourth skill to even level, Slicing is needed to get many aspects for each skill but if you take it you can't craft without resorting to GTN or player trading.

 

5) Armormech would be the obvious choice to making armoring. But, not in SWTOR. You need Cybertech. Armormech is actually the most useless of all skills as you can only make 2 things. Heavy or Medium armor. Completely unbalanced skill so why take it?

 

6) Most crafting skills can make augmentable items. But, augments are nearly impossible to find. GTN is useless for finding any. Without slicing, forget it!

 

7) You can't even begin to make the much needed enhancements for lower levels until you level Artifice well beyond the point where it's useful for your lower level.

 

8) Modification venders don't sell so many of the mods/enhancements I spent so much time collecting those commendations for. So many are endurance heavy and primary stat light. I have to get a Cybertech to make me decent mods even though I have earned the commendations.

 

9) Social points are useless for anything both a light armor wearer. Why bother having social items vendors as their just taking up space?

 

10) Combat is slow sluggish... example: I stunned a mod with a stun dart while he was standing still outside agfro range. The mob jumps 30 meters to stand in my face and then jiggles in stunned shock??? I kill a mob and he stands there as if carbonited. He doesn't fall to the ground 70% of the time. Many times I kill a mob and I see his health bar empty and he's still fighting for another 3 seconds and then freezes for falls dead. Completely unrealistic physics.

 

11) Finding datacrons that require jumping!!! Don't even get me started. My avatar sits there until .8 seconds after I press space bar. But, then he slowly jumps up. I've spent literally hours getting to a single datacron for crizzake.

 

12) Log in out times for my wife's PC takes her 5 minutes. No other game she plays takes that long to show the opening screen.

 

13) Random crashes to dektop, random freezes, wrong tooltips, (my Sith Warriors opening screen just keeps saying "Missing Codex Entry: xxxx"), the list go on and on. Vettes collar.. it's on, it's off, no it's on again, it's off again??? Check the conversation screens in holocams and such. Is that so hard? Missing eyeballs and all back outfits on people in conversations? Glitchy shadows?

 

All of the above and more competely turn me off on this game even though I am a total Star Wars fanatic. I will continue playing until I get one of my 7 toons to level 50. But, I don't know if I can in any good concience continue subbing after that. THe storylines seems a bit thin in some places and I really wonder if any of my choices/decisions have any impact on the ending.

 

All this said, I hope developments continues and things get fixed and working better.

[Lethality]

Wow lets see...a game that just came out or ones that's been around for manty years....wonder who has more of what.....?

 

Features != Content

[RabidPopcorn]

ye thats exactly what i said. why are you repeating it ?????????

 

That is not what you said. (in fact I'm intrigued as to why you would juxtapose objective with 'adjective')

 

More pertinently, what you said was essentially that it's 'objective' when someone takes his age as a factor, when that is clearly not objective unless we are examining what a 68 year old person would reasonably like; but we aren't.

 

An objective standard is beyond what any individual himself might have personally intended or thought.

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person)

Edited March 26, 2012 by RabidPopcorn

[zaltanus]

Blizzard gets it. But what is "it"?

 

I contend that Bliz <3s the casual majority so much that it creates expansions around said casuals. That's their 'it'. Each expansion is easier and easier to play. Why? Because they'd rather get $$$ out of someone to level and raid for 1-2 years and have them quit then continue to build a game that rewards actual work and progression. They know that kids are much more likely to play something that gives them instant gratification and purples so that they can go and brag to their other friends in 6th grade that they got C**kstrap of the Infinite because they stayed in a fight for longer than 2-3 minutes.

 

I played WoW since vanilla and saw battleground implementation, the collection of supplies to open AQ, etc etc. When I saw that it was going to be clownshoes after BC, I stuck around for WotLK but things were easy. Naxx, (which I had worked forever to get in on in an earlier time) could be stomped in a few hours time in a pug for "crazay lewts". I beat down Arthas and wondered where the difficulty had gone. Frustrating. When I realized that this pattern was only going to continue with Cata, I unsubbed and don't have any plans to come back.

 

It's not about the experience, it's about an economic model to maximize subscribers to make as much profit as possible. To do this, your game has to be easy enough for anyone who's never picked up computer gaming to play. That "it" that Blizzard gets is a profit model with crazy margins via 10-15 year olds that have never heard of an MMO before.

 

Is SWTOR that way? Sure, to a degree. But to say that Blizzard gets it and SWTOR is lost is an exaggeration.

 

In the end, if you don't like SWTOR go back to Panda-bear purpfest. We won't miss you. I'm much more comfortable right here, but you're welcome to your opinion.

Edited March 26, 2012 by zaltanus

[Shingara]

Features != Content

 

Im sorry but what exactly is your post supposed to mean, are you stating that features do equal content or that features dont equal content becuase if features do then swtor has more and if its actual playable content then no it doesnt at this time/

[Shingara]

That is not what you said. (in fact I'm intrigued as to why you would juxtapose objective with 'adjective')

 

More pertinently, what you said was essentially that it's 'objective' when someone takes his age as a factor, when that is clearly not objective.

 

An objective standard is beyond what any individual himself might have personally intended or thought.

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person)

 

Actualy no i never mentioned anything about his or her age, throw links about all you want, i stated that the person had looked at swtor objectivly and come to the understanding that it was inline with what he wants for a game. ps do you even know what adjective means and does ?