WonkaWally Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Simple and easy suggestion to make Advanced Prototype more viable in PVP. Let AP cast flamethrower while moving. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I would rather see this: Let Prototype Flamethrower apply a 15% bonus instead of 10%, but only stack 3x. While your net damage is 5% less, it would make advanced tools worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozzer Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 i think a better idea would be moving the design philosophy of AP, which focuses on mobility, economy and instant attacks, away from a high-cost attack that requires that you stand still and channel. its a serious split-personality issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tifski Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Simple and easy suggestion to make Advanced Prototype more viable in PVP. Let AP cast flamethrower while moving. Your thoughts? Everything that it's becoming in 1.2 and you still want more? Okay. Edited March 27, 2012 by Tifski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazingShadow Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 No, it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Everything that it's becoming in 1.2 and you still want more? Okay. LOL really? are they changing AP to be on par with other dps ACs, let alone Pyros, and I somehow missed it? Cause reading the 1.2 patch notes sure didnt. AP has some cute bells and whistles, 1.2 is making them a little louder. But they are still bells and whistles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallach Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 LOL really? are they changing AP to be on par with other dps ACs, let alone Pyros, and I somehow missed it? Cause reading the 1.2 patch notes sure didnt. AP has some cute bells and whistles, 1.2 is making them a little louder. But they are still bells and whistles. AP parses about 5-6% behind Pyro Tech on the PTR. It's not exactly a lost cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 AP parses about 5-6% behind Pyro Tech on the PTR. It's not exactly a lost cause. I thought the thread was viability in PvP?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallach Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I thought the thread was viability in PvP?! Most claim the reason AP is not viable in PvP is because the damage isn't there. Even from a burst perspective, that's not all that true. Moreso in 1.2 where Pyro doesn't have the burst it does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Most claim the reason AP is not viable in PvP is because the damage isn't there. Even from a burst perspective, that's not all that true. Moreso in 1.2 where Pyro doesn't have the burst it does now. Claim? So they are buffing AP and nerfing Pyro (big times burst wise), and still AP is behind in a parse (that I have not seen yet), and you call that a "claim" that's not all that true? ....ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallach Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Claim? So they are buffing AP and nerfing Pyro (big times burst wise), and still AP is behind in a parse (that I have not seen yet), and you call that a "claim" that's not all that true? ....ok The claim is that it isn't viable due to the damage discrepancy; that is, if you think that Powertech is so close to the precipice of viability where that small of a difference is the deciding factor, I think you're more than a little crazy. Pyro's damage, especially burst, is way beyond where it needs to be to be viable. I mean I'm not against buffing AP a little more, I'm just saying I think the claims that AP is "garbage" are hyperbolic waste. Being able to cast Flamethrower while moving seems way beyond what it needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) The claim is that it isn't viable due to the damage discrepancy; that is, if you think that Powertech is so close to the precipice of viability where that small of a difference is the deciding factor, I think you're more than a little crazy. Pyro's damage, especially burst, is way beyond where it needs to be to be viable. I mean I'm not against buffing AP a little more, I'm just saying I think the claims that AP is "garbage" are hyperbolic waste. Being able to cast Flamethrower while moving seems way beyond what it needs. Actually for a dps AC like pyro, I am 100% for it to have that "occasional" crazy burst. Out of all the dps ACs, we have the least utilities to bring to a WZ. Balancing dps classes purely on "burst" or even "damage" IS more than a little crazy. I dont think the back to back RS of Pyros ever won a Huttball game. But 2-3 Sorcs running ahead of each other chain pulling and running over hazards with 100% immunity wins Huttballs 80% of time. Back to back RS doesnt help me score, but that hybrid tanksin, can put out just as much damage as my pyro, have 100k+ protection, and still speedboost towards a goal line. That being said, I wouldnt call a nerf on Sorc and Assassins, and I certainly was not in favor of the dps Operative nerf. But enough people crying about dying or not being able to go 1v1 against a specific AC, should NEVER be the starting point of balancing classes. Now with regards to AP, when we say it isnt viable, we obviously dont mean that it doesnt get you from A to Z. But it is not viable in the sense that there is no reason to trade the extra sustained dps, as well as the huge burst. If AP offered me 10%-15% less damage than pyro, but in exchanged gave me utilites similar to a Sorc, or survivability similar to assassin or marauders, then I would say it is a good trade off. But to tell me to trade dps and burst for a 2sec decrease on interrupt and 20% mitigation when I am stunned, I will say no thank you. Edited March 27, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tifski Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 LOL really? are they changing AP to be on par with other dps ACs, let alone Pyros, and I somehow missed it? Cause reading the 1.2 patch notes sure didnt. AP has some cute bells and whistles, 1.2 is making them a little louder. But they are still bells and whistles. I meant Flamethrower, it doesn't need to be buffed to be useable on the move at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I meant Flamethrower, it doesn't need to be buffed to be useable on the move at all. Actually I wouldnt want that either. However I would love to see Proto Flame Thrower give 15% damage instead of 10%, but only stack 3x. So eventhough it is a 5% total decrease in damage, at least you get to use it more often, making Advanced tools also useful to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallach Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Now with regards to AP, when we say it isnt viable, we obviously dont mean that it doesnt get you from A to Z. But it is not viable in the sense that there is no reason to trade the extra sustained dps, as well as the huge burst. If AP offered me 10%-15% less damage than pyro, but in exchanged gave me utilites similar to a Sorc, or survivability similar to assassin or marauders, then I would say it is a good trade off. But to tell me to trade dps and burst for a 2sec decrease on interrupt and 20% mitigation when I am stunned, I will say no thank you. Well, let's not forget about HO. Easily the best part of going AP, especially in an objective-based PvP environment. I don't disagree that on live servers, the gap is big enough - again, particularly due to Pyro burst - that the gains in utility from HO and a small bit of mitigation aren't worth it. That said, I feel like in 1.2 that margin has gotten small enough that people should start considering it again. This will be even more true once people manage to gear into the new sets of gear; AP has a non-trivial scaling advantage over Pyro and I think it's possible within this next tier of gear the two specs are going to par up in terms of sustained damage/pressure. Edited March 27, 2012 by Wallach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noollig Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I think the number of people who disregard the AP spec haven't played it enough to recognize its potential. The AP changes look nice. The number one thing AP needs to keep up with pyro dps is more damage on Immolate or Retractable Blade. RB preferably to make it more than just a dot for railshots. Maybe instead of RB getting a 5/10/15% bonus in the AP tree it could be 10/20/30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blurps Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Well, let's not forget about HO. Easily the best part of going AP, especially in an objective-based PvP environment. I'd argue that ammo management, or rather the lack of need for it, is the primary benefit of Tactics/AP. Still, the package is pretty meh, afterall the yardstick are other actual specs, not 0/0/0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarovich Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 What PVP set bonus would be the best for AP? I'm thinking Eliminator won't be the best choice with the 4 piece bonus not helping at all since RS should be critting everytime you use it. Also I've seen claims from simulators that the changes on 1.2 test are putting AP and Pyro within 6% DPS of each other. Would this warrant the AP spec being a viable option now with the utility and mobility it has in comparison to Pyro? Heat management changes from 1.2 may also be another reason to take a closer look at AP too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karandor Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 AP/Tactics is 100% viable as it is right now and is actually very strong compared to other classes DPS specs. It's just that pyro/assault is so frakking insane tactics/AP gets overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theology Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Suggestion to make AP viable in PVP: Nerf Pyro, Iron Fist, Shieldtech, and any other sort of hybrid so bad that AP may actually be worth taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) AP/Tactics is 100% viable as it is right now and is actually very strong compared to other classes DPS specs. It's just that pyro/assault is so frakking insane tactics/AP gets overlooked. its more like pyro is super simple to play, and has luck bursts, you only need to be half the player to play pyro as well as AP Edited March 28, 2012 by Hizoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 its more like pyro is super simple to play, and has luck bursts, you only need to be half the player to play pyro as well as AP Half the player as in like 3 feet tall? Judging from all your senseless posts, I cant think of any other interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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