Hitting stealthers once just to keep them in combat?

[Agemnon]

I have seen and experienced this many times, a person would hit my character then just run off to fight someone else. I feel that this is a flagrant exploitation of game mechanics as well as DoTing just as an anti-stealth instead of a HoT mitigation. Here are some suggestions for stealth classes and undoing exploits:

 

1. DoTs and time spent in combat reduce the (really, really long 2 minute) CD on skills such as disappearing act.

 

2. Reduce the CD of DA to 1:30, and remove talenting into it all together.

 

3. Give smugglers sprint (if gunslingers/snipers don't have one already) equal to force speed. Still won't be competitive with sages in Huttball (which is what devs want, amirite?), but would at least have some utility.

 

4. Give a shadowstep ability.

 

5. An out of stealth delay.

 

6. An increased cone for behind attacks, since many players walk backwards which is just as fast as stealth speed a spring can be used to run through the player and shoot first then backblast them to get around their exploit.

 

7 Since scoundrel/operative damage is dependent on the position of the player said damage needs a buff. If maras/knights can do obscene damage from anywhere within 4 meters (and even beyond with their throw lightsaber move) then operatives/scoundrels should do even more since we have a more restricted positional requirement, and one that's easy enough to avoid.

 

8. BHs/troopers have an anti-stealth probe. Knowing about this hurts our DPS as we have to wait for it to drop before committing ourselves to an attack or wait for their GCD to activate (a very short window).

 

9. Reduce stealth's CD to 2 seconds, 1 with a talent point.

 

10. Buff stealth speed to normal. Then sprint wouldn't be needed to walk through and get in back attacks.

 

11. Improve targeting, but this applies to all classes.

[Mofotrey]

So you're arguing that you should be allowed to stealth whenever you want to, basically?

 

Trust me, we non-stealth DPS don't like it when you stealth and run away like a you-know-what in the middle of a fight that you're clearly going to lose, so if you don't like it when we tab to you, hit you, and move on, that just makes us even.

 

To me, hitting a stealth class and preventing them from stealthing means preventing them from coming up behind me and surprise attacking me. Why would I NOT want to do that? Why should stealth classes get rewarded if I do that? That makes no sense.

[JonJW]

So you're arguing that you should be allowed to stealth whenever you want to, basically?

 

Trust me, we non-stealth DPS don't like it when you stealth and run away like a you-know-what in the middle of a fight that you're clearly going to lose, so if you don't like it when we tab to you, hit you, and move on, that just makes us even.

 

To me, hitting a stealth class and preventing them from stealthing means preventing them from coming up behind me and surprise attacking me. Why would I NOT want to do that? Why should stealth classes get rewarded if I do that? That makes no sense.

 

You sir are my hero. Couldn't have said it any better. Just because someone uses skill in PvP someone else wants to call it an exploit.

[Agemnon]

So you're arguing that you should be allowed to stealth whenever you want to, basically?

 

 

Heavy armor wearers can wear their heavy armor whenever they want, healers can heal whenever they want if they aren't interrupted or OOM, so yes, unless it's in combat (which, gasp! Involves actual combat meaning actually fighting whom you are in combat against) and vanish is on CD.

[FoxNemhauser]

i'm a smuggler and i think OP just wants a god-mode class

[Agemnon]

To me, hitting a stealth class and preventing them from stealthing means preventing them from coming up behind me and surprise attacking me. Why would I NOT want to do that? Why should stealth classes get rewarded if I do that? That makes no sense.

 

 

It's a very important mechanic for us stealthers. DoTs don't prevent tracer missile spam, being hit doesn't prevent sorcs from using their lightning move (though interrupts deal with the previous mentioned moves and they don't need to wait another 2 minutes until they can use it), so why should we be penalized for having yet another mechanic preventing us from doing our job? Triage is also far from being a CoS as an effective prestealth DoT washer, but still works in some situations enough to bind it (shift + S in my case).

 

Even without exploits there are counters to stealthers: 1. Heavy armor, you aren't going to burst down an equivalent geared BH/trooper, and they have shields and much better sustained. 2. Dependents on crits is a weakness itself, making the class at the mercy of the RNG gods. And waiting for AoEs/stealth scan to drop before committing (or waiting for them to be on GCD or charge) penalizes overall DPS since time waiting is time not fighting.

[Ich_Bin]

Hitting a stealther once to keep him out of stealth is legitimate and honestly I have never understood why you see so few players that actually do it.

 

But instead everyone complained to Bioware that Operatives are overpowered because they can kill someone and restealth.

Guess what: They can't do that if you only so much as sneeze at them. Problem solved. No nerf required. But I get it, QQing and getting an entire class nerfed into the ground is so easier.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[cycao]

When someone throws a DoT on me to prevent me from going stealth thats just a smart play on there part, nothing wrong with that working as intended.

[Agemnon]

i'm a smuggler and i think OP just wants a god-mode class

 

I'm rolling knight but getting my scoundrel BM gear to compensate for the nerf so I can complete my Ilum dailies in the same amount of time. I'm saving up for a sith pureblood knight ^_^

 

Scoundrels still wouldn't be godmode since our armor would still be medium and still have crap utility in Huttball compared to the other classes. We'd just have a force speed and shadowstep (wouldn't work on those on a higher or lower enough elevation than you), no knockbacks or death grips.

[Mofotrey]

Heavy armor wearers can wear their heavy armor whenever they want, healers can heal whenever they want if they aren't interrupted or OOM, so yes, unless it's in combat (which, gasp! Involves actual combat meaning actually fighting whom you are in combat against) and vanish is on CD.

 

The thing about healing is that if we see someone healing, like you said, we can stop them by interrupting them, assuming their resolve bar isn't full. Likewise, if we see a stealth class, we can stop you by attacking you. That example doesn't help you. It's the way it SHOULD be. Every ability has a counter ability. When it comes to stealthing, we can counter it by attacking you.

 

You think I don't get irritated when I jump up to do Death From Above on a group of people and I immediately get stunned, wasting my CD and losing out on dealing a lot of damage? Sure I do, but I don't ask Bioware to make me invulnerable during Death From Above or to put it on a 1 second CD or to reduce the CD every time I take damage. If someone is attentive enough and quick enough to stun me when I fly up in the air to start slaughtering people, I tip my cap to them and keep on playing. Likewise, if someone is attentive enough to notice that you're a stealth class and they want to throw a quick DOT on you so that you don't sneak up behind them in slaughter them, you really don't have a good reason to complain. Be upset, but accept it.

[Mitzrael]

So you're arguing that you should be allowed to stealth whenever you want to, basically?

 

Trust me, we non-stealth DPS don't like it when you stealth and run away like a you-know-what in the middle of a fight that you're clearly going to lose, so if you don't like it when we tab to you, hit you, and move on, that just makes us even.

 

To me, hitting a stealth class and preventing them from stealthing means preventing them from coming up behind me and surprise attacking me. Why would I NOT want to do that? Why should stealth classes get rewarded if I do that? That makes no sense.

 

K.O.

 

I am really concerned that Bioware (once) said that stealth classes on this game will not be able to enter in stealth while in combat.

[Helistin]

When someone throws a DoT on me to prevent me from going stealth thats just a smart play on there part, nothing wrong with that working as intended.

 

This. Any sane player would atleast want to throw a dot on a stealther if possible. What does the op want non stealthers to do? Sit idle and wait to get destroyed?

[Agemnon]

Hitting a stealther once to keep him out of stealth is legitimate and honestly I have never understood why you see so few players that actually do it.

 

It's an exploit since if you enter combat with someone your intention should actually be to fight them. Since they're out of stealth you could finish them off. If they're smart they won't commit vanish to being on CD (unless the situation actually called for it).

 

If you are far enough away or if they target someone else after a few seconds you should be out of combat. Running away to a secluded area just to restealth just makes you (and the class) less useful.

[Metronomotopoeia]

Semi-related sidenote: I can't believe more people haven't spoken up about Georg's comment here:

You exit combat in PvP 8 seconds after the last hostile action. DOTs do not refresh this status.

 

You're playing very unusual games of Huttball if you never drop out of combat. Especially given that the ball resets to the center after someone scores, moving the action quickly.

 

It usually takes me a solid 15-20 seconds of doing absolutely nothing, getting hit by absolutely nothing, to drop combat. Once in a while it can take as long as 40 seconds, or longer.

[JonJW]

I'd like to be able to heal from stealth on my sorc as long as we're putting this all out there lol

[Agemnon]

The thing about healing is that if we see someone healing, like you said, we can stop them by interrupting them, assuming their resolve bar isn't full. Likewise, if we see a stealth class, we can stop you by attacking you. That example doesn't help you. It's the way it SHOULD be. Every ability has a counter ability. When it comes to stealthing, we can counter it by attacking you.

 

You think I don't get irritated when I jump up to do Death From Above on a group of people and I immediately get stunned, wasting my CD and losing out on dealing a lot of damage? Sure I do, but I don't ask Bioware to make me invulnerable during Death From Above or to put it on a 1 second CD or to reduce the CD every time I take damage. If someone is attentive enough and quick enough to stun me when I fly up in the air to start slaughtering people, I tip my cap to them and keep on playing. Likewise, if someone is attentive enough to notice that you're a stealth class and they want to throw a quick DOT on you so that you don't sneak up behind them in slaughter them, you really don't have a good reason to complain. Be upset, but accept it.

 

But a BH has so many options: front flame thrower, spinning flame thrower, tracer, that charge move with the blaster, etc., while stealthers just have the big single target crit move, backblast/stab, followed by crap sustained with some stuns (every class has stuns). Heavy armor can survive through the burst, which is a good enough counter. Keeping someone in combat doesn't prevent tracer, lightning, or mara moves, so why should our big move be prevented just by being in combat?

[Agemnon]

I'd like to be able to heal from stealth on my sorc as long as we're putting this all out there lol

 

Your castbar and targetability if close enough would still give you away.

[JonJW]

Of course that would be removed as well so no one can see me duh lol Edited March 24, 2012 by JonJW

[jmedeiros]

I know that most of your damage comes from stealth but i would not call popping you out of stealth an exploit. By that logic making a soc/sage move so they cant cast their channeled ability is an exploit. Stuns stop people from doing damage/healing so that is an exploit. Knockbacks on a melee class is exploiting. sniper entering cover so he can't be interupted is an exploit. As a Bh i use my taunts/gaurd to mitigate damage against a friendly player so that must be exploiting too.

[Mofotrey]

It's an exploit since if you enter combat with someone your intention should actually be to fight them. Since they're out of stealth you could finish them off. If they're smart they won't commit vanish to being on CD (unless the situation actually called for it).

 

If you are far enough away or if they target someone else after a few seconds you should be out of combat. Running away to a secluded area just to restealth just makes you (and the class) less useful.

 

If you had to have an intention to fight to be in combat, no new 50's would ever die to BM geared PVP'ers because they'd decline. Warzones aren't duels where you have to accept combat; if you're in a warzone, your intention IS to fight already.

 

 

 

But a BH has so many options: front flame thrower, spinning flame thrower, tracer, that charge move with the blaster, etc., while stealthers just have the big single target crit move, backblast/stab, followed by crap sustained with some stuns (every class has stuns). Heavy armor can survive through the burst, which is a good enough counter. Keeping someone in combat doesn't prevent tracer, lightning, or mara moves, so why should our big move be prevented just by being in combat?

 

 

 

My tracer ability gets locked out by melee classes all the time, which hurts my DPS by a lot because Heatseeker Missiles and Railshot depend on it partially and because Unload procs don't happen if I'm not using Tracers. I don't complain, I just try to compensate and keep going. It gives me a rare chance to justify not spamming Tracers!

[Ilintar]

It's a very important mechanic for us stealthers. DoTs don't prevent tracer missile spam, being hit doesn't prevent sorcs from using their lightning move (though interrupts deal with the previous mentioned moves and they don't need to wait another 2 minutes until they can use it), so why should we be penalized for having yet another mechanic preventing us from doing our job?

 

So, how about your disappearing act is a 2 second channeled ability that can be interrupted? That would put it on par with Tracer Missile :>

 

Side note: tagging someone with damage to keep them out of stealth is quite plausible if you think what it's supposed to represent. Stealth basically means "he's not aware of me, I can sneak up to him and do extra damage". Dealing damage to someone is a way of tagging that person and saying "I'm aware you're there".

[Elmuerto]

As a scoundrel this is just the way it is, its the mechanic chosen. Saying x-class does x so y class should y never really works out with stealth classes, especially the way stealth is not on a timer i.e. you can remain stealthed as long as you want.

[Agemnon]

As a scoundrel this is just the way it is, its the mechanic chosen. Saying x-class does x so y class should y never really works out with stealth classes, especially the way stealth is not on a timer i.e. you can remain stealthed as long as you want.

 

But being in stealth doesn't do anything other than not being detected and getting in your big single target nuke takes you out of stealth (they way it should).

[Shredbull]

Hey im a stealth class so i want to be able to press 1 button to dissapear whenever i want. I also want this button to have no cooldown whatsoever, so that I can open up on the same person as many times i like. Please give me a button that refills 75% of my health instantly aswell. Oh and come on, don't we deserve gear that gives us 500% surge?

[Agemnon]

"If you had to have an intention to fight to be in combat, no new 50's would ever die to BM geared PVP'ers because they'd decline. Warzones aren't duels where you have to accept combat; if you're in a warzone, your intention IS to fight already."

 

No one said anything about declining a duel, if the new 50s are being hit then of course they should stay in combat even if they aren't fighting back because they are still actually being damaged.