Vengeance Juggernauts, Are You Happy About 1.2?

[KingFink]

They took away Crash...

 

You guys not rejoicing about that yet?

[Vid-szhite]

You know, I have NEVER played a PvP-battle in this game thusfar, but if anyone ever made Vengeance sound cool, it's you. I'm glad I play Vengeance!

 

*nods* Cheers, sir.

 

Do note that I am a Battlemaster and am geared as such (Full Champ + BM Chest/Belt/Offhand), so if you try PVP and your immediate results aren't as good as I've said, that's why.

[Vid-szhite]

They took away Crash...

 

You guys not rejoicing about that yet?

 

I posted a thread about it. There was never a doubt in my mind that it would get removed though, so I'm not rejoicing so much as I'm wiping sweat from my brow.

 

I'm rejoicing over the Ravage Buff, though. 15% is huge - with Ravager, that increases to 25% over the original, making it our hardest hitting attack... and Vengeance can spam it. It's a good time to be Vengeance come 1.2. Things we're getting:

 

1) Sundering Throw - We can now have 4 Sunders on the target before we even begin our rotation, or open with Shatter.

 

2) +2 Rage on Rampage procs - even more sustained DPS!

 

3) Ravage Buff - Makes Rampage a great talent because Ravage is now highly desirable.

 

I'm stoked!

Edited March 30, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Dracosz]

The only regret I have about this patch is that intimidation will almost certainly have to be dropped to make room for essential talents to boost ravage. On the flip side, we'll have a much easier time on swaps now with the stronger ravage and sundering throw which will enable better shatter usage on new targets.

 

 

Earlier on my stream last night I was getting 4.4k crits on geared players with the third tick on LIVE (It is worth letting it go through at times since it's a great point to launch a burst rotation). with a 15% boost baseline and a 20% boost from talents... that's 6.6k damage on the crit... Not to mention 4k crits for the other two ticks. AKA any clothie that sits through a full ravage will die... fast.

 

Well, let the QQ commence, I suppose.

 

So far, I'm looking at 4/35/2 as mt goto spec.

[-SWA-]

Do note that I am a Battlemaster and am geared as such (Full Champ + BM Chest/Belt/Offhand), so if you try PVP and your immediate results aren't as good as I've said, that's why.

 

Oh no worries, I still have no intention of playing PvP in the near or far-off future. Whether the story you wrote, applies to PvP or PvE doesn't matter in my opinion. It just sounds awesome.

 

That, and I almost exclusively play two Vengeance Juggernauts, so in my head your story applies to me as well. I'm awesome :-D

Edited March 30, 2012 by -SWA-

[Ansultares]

They took away Crash...

 

You guys not rejoicing about that yet?

I'm not going to thank them for sparing me a fate they randomly decided upon at an earlier date.

 

I would love to see their justification for making Crash baseline. More than anything, I just want to know why, explicitly from the developer who made the decision.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Ansultares

[coldserpent]

I'm not going to thank them for sparing me a fate they randomly decided upon at an earlier date.

 

I would love to see their justification for making Crash baseline. More than anything, I just want to know why, explicitly from the developer who made the decision.

 

Probably as an additional tool for PvE, which this game has more of a bent towards, than PvP.

[Troelsen]

I don't like Crash baseline, from a pvp perspective. They should have made Stagger baseline, if anything had to be baseline in the first place, and put Crash at Tier 1 for those that wanted it.

[Andodx]

I am happy with my Vengeance Juggernaut and the Damage. Not so happy with the role of a tank-hybrid class in Denova. Why the **** do you need to have two Tanks for three encounters in the new operation and only one in the final one (Did I mention that the old Ops also only require one tank to be present?)?

 

This is why I am not so happy about 1.2, because I have to respec five times in one week to raid effectively.

[WarSiren]

I am happy with my Vengeance Juggernaut and the Damage. Not so happy with the role of a tank-hybrid class in Denova. Why the **** do you need to have two Tanks for three encounters in the new operation and only one in the final one (Did I mention that the old Ops also only require one tank to be present?)?

 

This is why I am not so happy about 1.2, because I have to respec five times in one week to raid effectively.

 

Your Guild doesn't have any DPS Assassins, or Pyrotechs they can make swap out to share teh burden if they do and they are forcing only you, that's BS.

[lordofdamornin]

I am happy with my Vengeance Juggernaut and the Damage. Not so happy with the role of a tank-hybrid class in Denova. Why the **** do you need to have two Tanks for three encounters in the new operation and only one in the final one (Did I mention that the old Ops also only require one tank to be present?)?

 

This is why I am not so happy about 1.2, because I have to respec five times in one week to raid effectively.

 

I hope your guild is paying for those respecs, if they are leaving that burden solely on you.

 

Riôt

[LordExozone]

After playing Vengeance since level 10, I respecced Rage for a couple of days. Obviously it didn't go so well at the start as you need to get used to the spec, but after a day I got the hang of it and did okey with 300k+ damage done in warzones, while with Vengeance that was usually around 175k. The smash crits are nice, had some awesome crits in voidstar, but overall the build feels clunky compared to the smooth Vengeance rotation. Overall single target damage feels very similar, Rage does undeniably better burst, but not by that much and Vengeance has an edge at getting killingblows thanks to our amazing vicious throw. Rage obviously wins out AOE-wise. The main difference is survivability which is a good deal better for Vengeance assuming you have picked up Deafening Defense & unstoppable.

 

So I'm back to Vengeance, and enjoying it a great deal more

[unicornfive]

They're entirely different trees for entirely different classes.

 

Mara carnage tree has +100% crit on force scream instead of +60%

And they have +30% crit dmg talent for force scream too, BOTH on carnage and rage spec....

They have 100% armor ignore skill,, that makes their ravage crit for exrtemely high dmg,

Extra attacks from ataru form that cause their next rage spending ability to do + 20% more dmg.

 

If u never played 50lvl mara, u cant immagine how sickening their dps is...

And what pissed me off a lot, was that annih maras, called the carnage spec, Trash!!

I dare them to play vengeance on a jugg/guardian then, LOL

[Vid-szhite]

After playing Vengeance since level 10, I respecced Rage for a couple of days. Obviously it didn't go so well at the start as you need to get used to the spec, but after a day I got the hang of it and did okey with 300k+ damage done in warzones, while with Vengeance that was usually around 175k. The smash crits are nice, had some awesome crits in voidstar, but overall the build feels clunky compared to the smooth Vengeance rotation. Overall single target damage feels very similar, Rage does undeniably better burst, but not by that much and Vengeance has an edge at getting killingblows thanks to our amazing vicious throw. Rage obviously wins out AOE-wise. The main difference is survivability which is a good deal better for Vengeance assuming you have picked up Deafening Defense & unstoppable.

 

So I'm back to Vengeance, and enjoying it a great deal more

 

This is what happened to me as well. Having guaranteed Time on Target with Unstoppable is THE reason to play Vengeance, IMO, and while Rage is good at setting up the kill for others, Vengeance is the best at finishing the job.

[Vid-szhite]

Mara carnage tree has +100% crit on force scream instead of +60%

And they have +30% crit dmg talent for force scream too, BOTH on carnage and rage spec....

They have 100% armor ignore skill,, that makes their ravage crit for exrtemely high dmg,

Extra attacks from ataru form that cause their next rage spending ability to do + 20% more dmg.

 

If u never played 50lvl mara, u cant immagine how sickening their dps is...

And what pissed me off a lot, was that annih maras, called the carnage spec, Trash!!

I dare them to play vengeance on a jugg/guardian then, LOL

 

Don't let the 60% fool you, what it actually does when you have good gear and raid buffs is increase Force Scream and Vicious Throw to 95-100% crit chance. Same result, just without the 30% crit damage buff.

 

Carnage is very similar to Vengeance, but there are still things that Carnage doesn't have that Vengeance does:

 

1) Chance to reset the cooldown on Ravage

2) Unstoppable

3) Refund Rage on EVERY attack.

4) Free Smash

5) Guaranteed Vicious Throw criticals

6) 20% Armor Reduce boosts damage for everyone at all times

7) A non-RNG method of causing a Force Scream critical.

8) A 12% passive increase to all damage and a 6% Strength increase.

 

Now, obviously, this doesn't mean Carnage is weaker than Vengeance, it still has its own advantages, but Carnage isn't necessarily better just because it shares a single similarity with Vengeance and has its own strengths. I do believe that Carnage is the Vengeance of Marauders - panned by critics and theorycrafters, but a powerhouse in its own right, potentially more deadly than the FotM specs in the right hands. It even occupies the same spot in the spec list. I see Carnage and Vengeance as brother specs, separated at birth but undeniably similar.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Teioh_White]

Hmm...did a Lost Island and EC today with my Jugg Veng dps spec. The Anni Mara spanked me pretty soundly in damage in both instances. The sniper also beat me in EC, but not by as much, and much of that was due to dead GCD's due to mechanics.

 

On the other hand, my Pyro PT is always near the top of the charts, normally beating the same Mara. In much worse gear, as my SW is full Rakata, while PT is just columi for dps. On the upside, Veng Jugg does much better picking up aggro if tank drops than does Pyro, so it's got that going for it.