How do you open coming out of stealth? (Deception)

[ManCandy]

I have been racking my brain trying to find the most effective way to come out of stealth to have the most impact and was hoping to ask the community what they use/have found the most effective and why?

 

1. Maul, I find using maul w/o duplicity seems week, its a big force user even with dark embrace and w/o the 50% armor pen seems weak.

 

2. Spike, I find the most use out of spike when interrupting casters, other than that give global cool downs, people are usually back on their feet moving away by the time i am ready to follow up.

 

thanks

[elfhoe]

I always open with spike then follow with a maul or two, stun, more maul, stun again, more maul, target hopefully dead. Voracious slash and electrocute combo is good too, but i think maul has more effect. Im no professional or anything, i could be wrong. Just my opinnion. I'd like to hear more from others as well.

[drummerinthesun]

There is no real opener for assassins right now. Maul should really take a backseat to 2xVS and shock, unless the guy is just running away from you, in which point it doesn't matter what you use. He's gonna go down. Use maul if EW procs, then low slash, move behind and maul. It's simply not worth the force points to use maul without the 50% armor pen.

On topic, I just open with the standard rotation. VS+VS+Shock, then go from there. You can spike them to interrupt an attack on a friendly and get a head start, but again, that costs a bit of force.

[Cubertt]

if the dude im on needs to be CCd then the knockdown is the way to go, if you just want to kill him super fast i use backstab. initial blackout + 2nd blackout should keep u fine on energy.

 

now if you know ur gonna kill the dude fast and switch to another target right away you may just wanna open up with force breach or clairvoyant strikes( whatever ur guys one is).

 

like someone already said we dont have a "true" opener it really depends on the situation.

 

hell with the whirlwind bug u might as well open up with that in a lot of situations to take someone outa the fight

Edited March 23, 2012 by Cubertt

[Exiled-Phoenix]

On mobs that have a silver or weak = spike + tumelt, with some luck you instantly take down the weak mob.

On gold or boss mobs, just maul i guess

[Astarica]

Spike is a waste of Force. It uses 30 Force and does basically does no damage, so you give up 1 GCD and 30F in exchange for the enemy doing nothing in roughly 1 GCD as well. Unless that attack knocked them off an edge or into a fire pit it's never worth it.

 

Due to the nature of PvP, half of the time it'd be correct to open with Maul (if you get countered by a KB) and the other half of the time it'd be correct to open with Voltiac Slash (no KB counter). Unfortunately you'd have no way of knowing which half any particular scenario falls under so you might as well pick an attack that fits your style.

[Holinyx]

spike, maul, force lightening, shock, electrocute, Tumult, Maul. DEAD.

 

if they last that long.

[DSpiize]

Rakata Adrenal>Wreckless>Relic>Discharge>Shock>Maul --- DEAD ---

 

 

If I pop all 3 of those things before I attack someone, I've seen crits up to 5.2k before...3 times in a row

Edited March 24, 2012 by DSpiize

[Eilykarol]

Spike if it's a non-boss/PvP or Voltaic Slash on a boss (Discharge if I have a few leftover charges of Static Charge left).

[Malefik]

I spike,discharge,shock. That sets me up for the damg. boost from shock and the 0 cast time on crushing darkness which usally progs with 1-2 LS stikes followed by a death field. I'm Madness spec.

[mausty]

Spike is a waste of Force. It uses 30 Force and does basically does no damage, so you give up 1 GCD and 30F in exchange for the enemy doing nothing in roughly 1 GCD as well. Unless that attack knocked them off an edge or into a fire pit it's never worth it.

 

Due to the nature of PvP, half of the time it'd be correct to open with Maul (if you get countered by a KB) and the other half of the time it'd be correct to open with Voltiac Slash (no KB counter). Unfortunately you'd have no way of knowing which half any particular scenario falls under so you might as well pick an attack that fits your style.

 

Spike is not a waste! Force cloak followed by a spike has saved me so often! Of course i use my "defensive" cooldowns, quite offensively

[Draeb]

I'm beginning to not like Spike as well. It feels as if the animation is sluggish. I can roughly get one hit in before my target is back up.

[Faeldawn]

Spike is not a waste! Force cloak followed by a spike has saved me so often! Of course i use my "defensive" cooldowns, quite offensively

 

This is a better use of spike, restealth during the fight and pop it if your losing.

 

I wouldn't often open with spike though, i want to get my procs rocking first

[BIG_M]

i usually open up with recklessness+expertise stim+relic the vsx2 shock disharge if not below 30% 2xvs shock again by then there usually under 30% and assassinate depending on force use blackout to give force regen somewhere in there

[elfhoe]

I think we should also take into consideration the different spec trees. I'm deception and when i use surging charge i really dont have much problems with with running out of force. Especially with the columi bonuses. So i can sit there mauling all day long, couple normal attacks later i'm full force again.

[Acindo]

I always open with spike then follow with a maul or two, stun, more maul, stun again, more maul, target hopefully dead. Voracious slash and electrocute combo is good too, but i think maul has more effect. Im no professional or anything, i could be wrong. Just my opinnion. I'd like to hear more from others as well.

 

So.. after 3 attacks you have completely depleted your force. Not particularly effective if you ask me. Maul only when you get the proc or occasionally you can throw out 1 Maul without it but its not really worth it.

spike, maul, force lightening, shock, electrocute, Tumult, Maul. DEAD.

 

if they last that long.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but you do not PvP much, if at all. Am I right?

 

Deception Assassins should not be using Force Lightning pretty much ever. You can not use Tumult in PvP. Also your last attack to kill someone is generally going to be Assassinate, not Maul.

 

I think we should also take into consideration the different spec trees. I'm deception and when i use surging charge i really dont have much problems with with running out of force. Especially with the columi bonuses. So i can sit there mauling all day long, couple normal attacks later i'm full force again.

 

Well the thread is about Deception. So no we shouldn't take into account the other trees. Also, by Columi bonus I assume you are referring to we can regain 1 force if we use our basic attack. Which is absolutely 100% worthless and doesn't help whatsoever.

 

If you are spamming Maul as Deception you are using your force very inefficiently and you are running out of force often.

 

Personally, if I notice a ranged person standing close to an edge of a level I will use Spike as it knocks them forward a bit so you can knock them down to ground level with your other team mates. Otherwise I'll usually just open with buffs then VS x 2 Shock Discharge etc.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Acindo

[brgnomnom]

this may be completely wrong and may not work on better players, but i find that people get so panicy when stunned by spike that 9 times out of 10 they will blow their KB immediately. sooo, what i usually do is spike-force shroud-maul-snare-2vs-shock-disharge-maul then play it by ear. i guess i'm not sure if its worth it, but up to level 48 soo many ppl will waste a KB or stun on my shroud.

 

i also like spike for opening on healers that have been freecasting. its a few more seconds of lockdown and it will be up again by the time i've exhausted my other interrupting tools.

 

when they use their KB that often it seems like a good deal to precast the force shroud even when opening not from stealth.

[Delillo]

The reason to use spike is only when the target is engaged with another player or if spike will knock him off a ledge.

 

Otherwise spike is low damage and just adds a bunch of resolve to their bar. Resolve you will need later to stun and low slash. Spiking takes away your interrupts later on.

 

So VS for a 1v1 is the way to go.

 

 

As far as spiking causing bad players to panic on blow their CC breaker- well, do you really want to get in the habit of using a tactic that works on poor players that you should beat anyway? Open with spike 1v1 against a good healer and you may not be able to interrupt enough heals later on to kill him. Thats a bad feeling when your CC doesn't work, and can't stop that healer as he heals himself- generally you are out of force at this point too.

[elfhoe]

@ acindo I guess you missed the part where I clearly stated that I never have an issue running out of force points. So... here it is again. I never have an issue running out of force points. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

[Acindo]

@ acindo I guess you missed the part where I clearly stated that I never have an issue running out of force points. So... here it is again. I never have an issue running out of force points. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

 

I saw what you said and you're lying. If your spamming Maul without the proc you will be at 0 force in a few seconds.

 

Feel free to make a video of you spamming Maul and never running out of force.

[Enexemander]

I tend to open with Spike on healers. Since I view my job as being the healer killer in deception, I open with spike at least 70% of the time. It tends to rattle people, it will take their attention off whoever they are healing and onto themselves, and gives me a free GCD to do whatever I like (with increased force resurgence). If they're bad they will also blow their cc-break which makes killing them trivial.

 

I open with maul on low armor targets sometimes, but only because it hits harder on them and my force is regenerating much faster out of stealth. It's pretty wicked to maul someone at low armor out of stealth, get the proc, and then maul them again for 4kish.

 

The problem is that assassins don't have a big stealth opener, but we do have increased force regen out of stealth so you can really just use whatever you want.

[Astarica]

OUtside of the very obvious situations (knock someone off an edge, or someone is about to die), the only reason Spike would be useful is if the other paniced and use CC breaker instead of saying "LOL thanks for the resolve" which is what they should do. It's a strategy that relies on the enemy being stupid and while that has a surprisingly high chance of working, it obviously won't work on good players.

 

Opening with Maul is sometimes beneficial against a good player if you assume he's almost certainly going to counter with a strong CC. For example if he counters with a 4s stun, your Force regen is 12/s coming out of stealth, so you'd regen 48 Force before the stuns wears off, recovering all the cost of Maul while maximizing your DPS.

 

Of course this is the opposite situation as opening with Spike. Here, you're relying on your opponent being good, and it can backfire on you too because there are a lot of bad players.

 

Opening with VS is the safest thing to do. Opening with Maul can sometimes get you unexpected benefit. For example if the guy is bubbled and you think he's speced into bubble blind, then you should open with Maul, so that you can pop the bubble and you get blinded. It has to happen anyway so you might as well do a little bit more DPS. There's no Force cost because you'll get blinded and recover that Force cost while you're blinded.

[Ushela]

vs vs shock

[Cempa]

Open with Snare..thats how pros open.