Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Captain_Zone]

the rumors of SGR so soon is making my SW question his feelings for vette, since theyre still very early in the story

 

Vette is still worth it, imo. She's the "Innocent Freak" in the pool of female love interests.

 

On the Giggity scale, she's Giggity Giggity Gig-Gi-Ty!!!

[Crezelle]

Vette is still worth it, imo. She's the "Innocent Freak" in the pool of female love interests.

 

On the Giggity scale, she's Giggity Giggity Gig-Gi-Ty!!!

 

well i DO have a few ideas about dem lekkus...

ohh choices choices

[Captain_Zone]

well i DO have a few ideas about dem lekkus...

ohh choices choices

 

And her old Shock Collar that she uses on the wedding night.... Yes, that was THE "And this one time, at Band Camp...." line in SWTOR.

[Hambunctious]

well i DO have a few ideas about dem lekkus...

ohh choices choices

 

Are you freaking serious?

 

what the...that's not even..I don...where am I?

[Crezelle]

And her old Shock Collar that she uses on the wedding night.... Yes, that was THE "And this one time, at Band Camp...." line in SWTOR.

 

in my head cannon... it goes on quinn, and the remote gets tossed under the sheets so he gets randomly zapped every time someone moves around er...in thier sleep>:3

[Kalterien]

in my head cannon... it goes on quinn, and the remote gets tossed under the sheets so he gets randomly zapped every time someone moves around er...in thier sleep>:3

 

 

Okay... seriously off topic but am I the only one who dislikes evening thinking (after choking the crap out of him that ONE time) about abusing Quinn?

[Taalbert]

My Quinn is level 18 at the moment so things are all love and sunshine. He heals me, he gets flustered when I flirt...he has a nice voice. So I am happy right now

 

BUT - I am almost scared to romance him, to be honest. I wish I wouldn't have read his spoilers ages ago! Argh.

[stuffystuffs]

Well, from her letters after the main RA with her is over, her bisexual nature is confirmed. So yes, if BioWare doesn't lock her in for SGRs, something is seriously wrong with them.

 

Really?

 

What do they say?

 

I'm just curious b/c...I really want her to be an option and stuff (and hopefully without having to reroll my Agent). I need moar proof!

 

Edited May 29, 2012 by stuffystuffs

[Crezelle]

Really?

 

What do they say?

 

I'm just curious b/c...I really want her to be an option and stuff (and hopefully without having to reroll my Agent). I need moar proof!

 

 

 

one letter she lists a bunch of demands to make space travel between missions less boring. one of them is her being able to bring along 3 attractive PEOPLE (note people, not guys) of her choice, no questions asked

 

[Zandilar]

one letter she lists a bunch of demands to make space travel between missions less boring. one of them is her being able to bring along 3 attractive PEOPLE (note people, not guys) of her choice, no questions asked

 

THAT is your confirmation????

 

*mutters something about school and what they're teaching kids these days*

 

I hate to say it, but that's very vague.

 

 

She says "people". "People" could mean "males" or "males and females" or "females" or "whatever gender/sex combination that takes my fancy at the time, including people with no gender or sex at all". She might only choose attractive males, for all we know. Plus, going just from what's in the spoiler space quoted above, she might not mean to have sex with them. She might play paazak with them, or have them dance for her, or do just about anything that isn't sexual, but is entertaining.

 

 

I have no objections to people reading what they like into things, but don't hold up your subjective opinions about meaning as fact/confirmation.

 

(Disclaimer: I'm pretty pedantic about these things to start with, and it's only gotten worse since I started studying law this year. Yes, I'm a 40 year old first year law student! )

[wainot-keel]

THAT is your confirmation????

 

*mutters something about school and what they're teaching kids these days*

 

I hate to say it, but that's very vague.

 

 

She says "people". "People" could mean "males" or "males and females" or "females" or "whatever gender/sex combination that takes my fancy at the time, including people with no gender or sex at all". She might only choose attractive males, for all we know. Plus, going just from what's in the spoiler space quoted above, she might not mean to have sex with them. She might play paazak with them, or have them dance for her, or do just about anything that isn't sexual, but is entertaining.

 

 

I have no objections to people reading what they like into things, but don't hold up your subjective opinions about meaning as fact/confirmation.

 

(Disclaimer: I'm pretty pedantic about these things to start with, and it's only gotten worse since I started studying law this year. Yes, I'm a 40 year old first year law student! )

 

Well, imagine a young woman who tells her parents, "hey, I'm bored, I want to be able to bring 3 attractive people to my room and you can't ask anything about it". Bringing peace of mind to those parents with semantics could be challenging

 

Yes, "people" insted of "guys" or "girls" is vague. And I think that's the point. Proof ? Of course not, but that could have been said in a way much more restrictive.

And this is people interacting with each other. It's not a mathematical demonstration of a proposition. When people interact, there's subtext, there's hinting. You have to "read" what is said and what is not said. People usually don't go around with labels in their forheads and a banner stating their plans, intentions and a solemn oath to live up to them...

[stuffystuffs]

THAT is your confirmation????

 

*mutters something about school and what they're teaching kids these days*

 

I hate to say it, but that's very vague.

 

 

But looking from a meta-perspective, why would the writers use 'people' instead of 'men' if she was never envisioned as bisexual?

 

Something similar happens on Balmorra with the Female Agent. When Kaliyo is teasing her about Sanju (I think that's his name) the Agent can tell Kaliyo something like "I can't help it if people fall at my feet."

 

That always struck me as odd since the Female Agent is apparently supposed to be a straight lass since she's incapable of showing interest in females....why not say 'men' instead?

 

It's almost if FemAgent/Kaliyo was going to be a possibility but got cut out at some point (but little clues remain).

 

 

 

[Captain_Zone]

But looking from a meta-perspective, why would the writers use 'people' instead of 'men' if she was never envisioned as bisexual?

 

Something similar happens on Balmorra with the Female Agent. When Kaliyo is teasing her about Sanju (I think that's his name) the Agent can tell Kaliyo something like "I can't help it if people fall at my feet."

 

That always struck me as odd since the Female Agent is apparently supposed to be a straight lass since she's incapable of showing interest in females....why not say 'men' instead?

 

It's almost if FemAgent/Kaliyo was going to be a possibility but got cut out at some point (but little clues remain).

 

 

 

I think the only thing keeping female characters from showing real interest in female NPCs is that the framework for SGRs isn't fully fleshed out and implemented yet. Now, one that DID slip into the current game...

is the SW during Vette's personal quest to free her sister on Nar Shaddaa.

 

At one point, a female SW can say: "Hold on. I want to discuss this 'no women' policy. I mean, we are all open minded people here."

 

[Zandilar]

But looking from a meta-perspective, why would the writers use 'people' instead of 'men' if she was never envisioned as bisexual?

 

Something similar happens on Balmorra with the Female Agent. When Kaliyo is teasing her about Sanju (I think that's his name) the Agent can tell Kaliyo something like "I can't help it if people fall at my feet."

 

That always struck me as odd since the Female Agent is apparently supposed to be a straight lass since she's incapable of showing interest in females....why not say 'men' instead?

 

It's almost if FemAgent/Kaliyo was going to be a possibility but got cut out at some point (but little clues remain).

 

 

 

I'm just going to stick some of this in spoilers, though I'm not sure they're spoiling anything... There is a mild ME spoiler in there too, but if people don't already know it, then they haven't played the ME series at all, as it's old news.

 

 

I still think 'people' is too vague to hang any assumptions off. Why would the writers do it? Well, why would the writers of Jack in ME give her a history with a female (and a male at the same time) and then never make reference to it again, nor allow fem!Shepard a romance with her? Writers don't always write characters the way we would, if given a chance.

 

We don't know why Kaliyo asks for these 'people', so we can't make a definitive judgement on Kaliyo's sexuality - she might just want to play chess with them. We can't take anything from the game as proof unless or until Kaliyo shows a clear attraction to fem!Agent. (So I'm looking pretty much for an "I like you, lets bonk". Anything less is... not enough.)

 

 

Plus, keep my opinion in the context of my adamant resolution to always post a repudiation of the idea of Kaliyo being the only option for fem!Agents when it comes up. I would far rather see the class get a new female companion than have Kaliyo be the only option. (Don't get me wrong, I actually like Kaliyo, I do find her attractive, but elements of her personality prevent it from being anything more than an acknowledgement of her beauty.)

 

As for fem!Agent... She says 'people' fall at her feet. The 'people' are the ones doing the falling, her comment does not give a proper indication of her own interests. Plus each individual agent's sexuality is whatever the player thinks it is - Jan'neria, for instance, is not attracted to men at all. I avoided all the flirt options like the plague, and got really annoyed by the whole forced marriage on Voss thing (as people may remember).

[kabeone]

So I'm going to preface this with some things that I know:

1. Decisions made by the SWTOR team changes all the time

2. The people in the QA panels for just about every QA panel they've done are often wrong, misinformed, right when they said it but wrong when the patch launches, and misunderstood.

3. I know this is old and may have been discussed a while ago but since Kaliyo came up I thought I'd bring it up again and I honestly haven't read this entire thread. You guys move to fast in this forum for me.

 

So here's the link to the day 3 PAX East QA from dulfy

http://dulfy.net/2012/04/10/paxeast-2012-day-3-qa/

 

The relevant part involving Kaliyo specifically:

Q: I heard a rumor that Lucusfilm didn’t want same sex relationships between your companions. As a female IA, I really want to bang Kaliyo really bad (audience laughs), I am disappointed that it wasn’t in there. So, is there plans to implement that? Can I retro-actively romance Kaliyo when it is put in or is it even going to be put in?

 

A: First of all Lucusarts does not have that position at all. They very much care about the community and in terms of when we are going to be adding same-sex romance, we actually have some it already written. I can’t say when it is coming in but it is something that Bioware is known for and it is something we are putting in. We have the full support of Lucusarts to do it so you will be seeing it soon. We are not going to be retroactively changing characters – so it is going to be on new characters.

 

I hope this is not true, because not only does it mean some of our favorite "maybe" companions are definitely nots but it also could mean some of my OGRA wishes will never happen either.

 

Edit: Also re-reading both her question and his answer he may just have meant that once you go through her conversation you can't go back and unlock her romance. This makes me hopeful but anyway...

Edited May 29, 2012 by kabeone

[AelixVII]

I'm holding off on starting an Agent because I'm curious about how his romance with Vector would go... Mind you, it might not be that different, suppose I'm just holding off for the possibility really. Edited May 29, 2012 by AelixVII

[stuffystuffs]

 

I still think 'people' is too vague to hang any assumptions off. Why would the writers do it? Well, why would the writers of Jack in ME give her a history with a female (and a male at the same time) and then never make reference to it again, nor allow fem!Shepard a romance with her? Writers don't always write characters the way we would, if given a chance.

 

We don't know why Kaliyo asks for these 'people', so we can't make a definitive judgement on Kaliyo's sexuality - she might just want to play chess with them. We can't take anything from the game as proof unless or until Kaliyo shows a clear attraction to fem!Agent. (So I'm looking pretty much for an "I like you, lets bonk". Anything less is... not enough.)

 

 

Something as explicit as "I like you, lets bonk" won't be shown atm since the SGRA's were cut (if you believe what the devs stated).

 

If what they say is true (and if they had planned some of these to be added but cut them out at the last minute) then I suspect that there would possibly be some leftover indicators that companion X was intended to be an SGRA that the devs forgot to change/remove. I think some of the subtle hints with Kaliyo point to that...but I could be wrong of course (and I guess Female SW/Jaessa have some too?)

 

As for ME2, I actually think something similar happened with Jack...can't prove it ofc, but I get that feeling with her...especially considering how abrupt her dialog with FemShep ends when her convos are finished.

 

As for fem!Agent... She says 'people' fall at her feet. The 'people' are the ones doing the falling, her comment does not give a proper indication of her own interests.

 

That's right, but I was thinking more about the writers intentions there. Why did they use people instead of men?

 

I think it might be a leftover.

 

Plus each individual agent's sexuality is whatever the player thinks it is - Jan'neria, for instance, is not attracted to men at all. I avoided all the flirt options like the plague, and got really annoyed by the whole forced marriage on Voss thing (as people may remember).

 

I was being a bit facetious.

 

 

My agent is gay as all hell too (she somehow avoided marriage on Voss )

 

I think she flirted with that Chance guy in Act 2 just to mess with him but that was it. She'll use her feminine wiles if needed to gain trust or whatever.

 

But my frustration is that she can't flirt with women at all (b/c the only RP option now without going pure headcanon is straight or asexual), so I call her my "straight lesbian agent".

 

I just say she's too stressed out to pursue romance.

 

 

[mikphobos]

i just hope the game survive long enough for us to see SGR on it..

its nice to think they are coming, hope all go well

[MusedMoose]

So I'm going to preface this with some things that I know:

1. Decisions made by the SWTOR team changes all the time

2. The people in the QA panels for just about every QA panel they've done are often wrong, misinformed, right when they said it but wrong when the patch launches, and misunderstood.

3. I know this is old and may have been discussed a while ago but since Kaliyo came up I thought I'd bring it up again and I honestly haven't read this entire thread. You guys move to fast in this forum for me.

 

So here's the link to the day 3 PAX East QA from dulfy

http://dulfy.net/2012/04/10/paxeast-2012-day-3-qa/

 

The relevant part involving Kaliyo specifically:

Q: I heard a rumor that Lucusfilm didn’t want same sex relationships between your companions. As a female IA, I really want to bang Kaliyo really bad (audience laughs), I am disappointed that it wasn’t in there. So, is there plans to implement that? Can I retro-actively romance Kaliyo when it is put in or is it even going to be put in?

 

A: First of all Lucusarts does not have that position at all. They very much care about the community and in terms of when we are going to be adding same-sex romance, we actually have some it already written. I can’t say when it is coming in but it is something that Bioware is known for and it is something we are putting in. We have the full support of Lucusarts to do it so you will be seeing it soon. We are not going to be retroactively changing characters – so it is going to be on new characters.

 

I hope this is not true, because not only does it mean some of our favorite "maybe" companions are definitely nots but it also could mean some of my OGRA wishes will never happen either.

 

Edit: Also re-reading both her question and his answer he may just have meant that once you go through her conversation you can't go back and unlock her romance. This makes me hopeful but anyway...

(Sorry for the enormous re-quote, everyone, but I wanted to make sure I got everything relevant, and that turned out to be... everything.)

 

That's a little bit worrisome, but it could be interpreted in several ways:

 

It could mean SGRs are only going to be with new characters. I doubt this, though, mostly because of what was said at the guild summit. BioWare's people said that they knew which characters they wanted to have for new relationships (including SGRs, since that was the topic of discussion), and when people started throwing out names, that would have been the perfect time to say that new relationships would be for new characters only.

 

Also, while BioWare's people probably don't read this thread every day, they've said they know that people want SGRs, and that they've read the discussions. In every version of this thread, the overwhelming majority of people have talked about wanting SGRs with currently existing companions. And as I've talked about before, it would be a great deal less work to add new relationships to current companions than to create wholly new companions.

 

The phrase could also mean what you said, kabeone, that it won't be possible to retroactively go back through a companion's conversations and romance them. This will be disappointing to a lot of people, to be sure. But I wouldn't be all that surprised if it happened. I don't know how BioWare has the companions programmed, so it might actually be unworkable for a companion to suddenly become a romance option when they weren't before.

 

Personally, I'm hoping that the person answering the question was just misinformed.

[Zandilar]

Something as explicit as "I like you, lets bonk" won't be shown atm since the SGRA's were cut (if you believe what the devs stated).

 

Mmmhmm... What I was trying to get at is basically - don't make any assumptions on the basis of what we have already. They may well never amount to anything. Like with Jack. Like with Ashley. Ashley, since there are voiced lines of romance between her and fem!Shepard in ME1 floating around. Jack has a history which includes a relationship (a three way) with a woman (and a man). Neither of them ended up bisexual, despite all indications to the contrary.

 

It's a little like Joss Whedon. You can't trust Bioware not to break your heart. So best not to get too attached to any ideas regarding current characters.

 

If what they say is true (and if they had planned some of these to be added but cut them out at the last minute) then I suspect that there would possibly be some leftover indicators that companion X was intended to be an SGRA that the devs forgot to change/remove. I think some of the subtle hints with Kaliyo point to that...but I could be wrong of course (and I guess Female SW/Jaessa have some too?)

 

As for ME2, I actually think something similar happened with Jack...can't prove it ofc, but I get that feeling with her...especially considering how abrupt her dialog with FemShep ends when her convos are finished.

 

Most romance characters in ME2 had a similar thing going on. If you didn't romance them (or your Shepard was the wrong gender for the romance), the conversations just stopped. Jack is possibly the more egregious example, but Tali was like that too (and she also said a few things in the last couple of conversations that could have been construed as romantic towards fem!Shepard - which were probably just artifacts of the m!Shepard romance with her).

 

That's right, but I was thinking more about the writers intentions there. Why did they use people instead of men?

 

I think it might be a leftover.

 

The use of people is only significant IF we knew she meant what she said in a sexualised context. There is nothing in anything people have quoted her as saying that implies anything other than - she wants entertainment when she gets bored. (I say this because well, I haven't got around to bribing Kaliyo to 10k affection yet, and haven't actually listened to the conversations people are talking about.)

 

My agent is gay as all hell too (she somehow avoided marriage on Voss )

 

How on Voss did you manage to avoid that?! Dark side and murder the guy?

 

 

 

 

But my frustration is that she can't flirt with women at all (b/c the only RP option now without going pure headcanon is straight or asexual), so I call her my "straight lesbian agent".

 

I just say she's too stressed out to pursue romance.

 

 

I can see where you're coming from, and share the same frustration to a certain extent. I put it down to the same reason you do too.

[stuffystuffs]

Mmmhmm... What I was trying to get at is basically - don't make any assumptions on the basis of what we have already.

 

I know...I'm not assuming anything will be added at this point.

 

I fully expect we'll get new characters actually or characters from classes I don't really play.

 

So, it's like, hope for the best but expect the worst type of thing.

 

 

 

How on Voss did you manage to avoid that?! Dark side and murder the guy?

 

 

 

 

Nah, didn't have to kill anyone...just wound him and take the family hostage for a bit.

 

This vid shows basically what I did:

 

The Female IA shoots the male Voss instead of female....I guess even when shooting and threatening people you have to keeps it heterosexual

 

It's still not something a Light Side IA would do (unless under lots of stress, which could be a justification for it and is the one I use for my IA who's actually neutral in alignment).

 

 

[JediElf]

I know...I'm not assuming anything will be added at this point.

 

I fully expect we'll get new characters actually or characters from classes I don't really play.

 

So, it's like, hope for the best but expect the worst type of thing.

 

I'm doing the same here.

 

Quinn and my Sith Warrior will always be together in my Head Canon, but I'm reading my self for the sad prospect that I may not be able to actually get Quinn in the game, I may have someone else *sigh*....I just hope they have the charm that the current male companions do, and just as compelling a story.

 

I hope it doesn't end up this way, I really do...I just wish we'd get some solid confirmation on something ( I don't want a date for release, just a list of who gets SGRA)...anything.... It would be nice >_<

 

However I guess that saying is true...good things come to those who wait.

 

I wait I shall.

Edited May 30, 2012 by JediElf

[PresentTense]

Also re-reading both her question and his answer he may just have meant that once you go through her conversation you can't go back and unlock her romance. This makes me hopeful but anyway...

 

I always assumed this would be the case. I planned ahead on the SGRAs - both my sith warrior and my smuggler are camping at level one. I figured that even though SGRAs were unlikely to be added for every companion, it was likely the female smuggler would get to romance Risha or Akaavi and the warrior would get Vette or Jaesa. As some other people have said, the devs have to know how disappointed people would be if only newly added companions were available for SGRAs. (Here's hoping for Akaavi and Vette! Or maybe a new light side option for Jaesa ...)

 

Rolling back the clock on a companion quest line, however, would likely be a problem, not only from a logistical standpoint but also from a customer relations standpoint. We all know some people aren't thrilled about the idea of SGRAs in the game, and having Vector gain new conversations with every male agent just to offer the flirt option would create quite a bit of backlash. The romance options really do have to be worked into a story line over time - plopping them on top of an existing relationship seems to be the kind of writing the devs have talked about wanting to avoid.

Edited May 30, 2012 by PresentTense

[wainot-keel]

I always assumed this would be the case. I planned ahead on the SGRs - both my sith warrior and my smuggler are camping at level one. I figured that even though SGRs were unlikely to be added for every companion, it was likely the female smuggler would get to romance Risha or Akaavi and the warrior would get Vette or Jaesa. As some other people have said, the devs have to know how disappointed people would be if only newly added companions were available for SGRs.

 

Rolling back the clock on a companion quest line, however, would likely be a problem, not only from a logistical standpoint but also from a customer relations standpoint. We all know some people aren't thrilled about the idea of SGRs in the game, and having Vector gain new conversations with every male agent just to offer the flirt option would create quite a bit of backlash. The romance options really do have to be worked into a story line over time - plopping them on top of an existing relationship seems to be the kind of writing the devs have talked about wanting to avoid.

 

All depends on how it's implemented. I assume everything regarding this matter will be optional. Let's say Vette is an SGR possibilty, then those lvl 50 female warriors could get an in-game e-mail with a token to reset her story arc (and only hers). Just like the Founder thingy title, one time use. You open your email, you put the token in your inventory and then right click on it if you want to. You don't want it, you trash the token. No one could seriuosly claim that something is being shoved down their throats....

Edited May 30, 2012 by wainot-keel

[JediElf]

Rolling back the clock on a companion quest line, however, would likely be a problem, not only from a logistical standpoint but also from a customer relations standpoint. We all know some people aren't thrilled about the idea of SGRAs in the game, and having Vector gain new conversations with every male agent just to offer the flirt option would create quite a bit of backlash. The romance options really do have to be worked into a story line over time - plopping them on top of an existing relationship seems to be the kind of writing the devs have talked about wanting to avoid.

 

If I have to start all my characters again, and gain my legacy levels again, and all my unlocks....again.

 

I will do it.