So being a new 50 is basically the worst thing ever.....

[Noctournys]

people misusing the term "grind" again, i see.

 

Nothing in this game is a grind.

 

On top of that.. you can walk into level 50 with 5 PvP bags to open, open up 8 more the same day by doing dalies/weeklies, AND have level 50 purples in EVERY SLOT before you ding 50.

 

Daily quests.

 

Belsavis opens up at 47 and the Bonus Series there leads you STRAIGHT THROUGH THEM.

 

Seriously people. Quit rolling into the Warzone in your level 42 quest blues and wondering why you die.

[Fredcat]

I am so sick of these QQ posts. The whiners will NEVER be good PVPers because they are too soft and over dramatic. It's already so easy to gear up that if you think it's a big ordeal I question your ability to compete under any circumstance.

 

MMO's are gear based, that's the way it is.

 

PVP gear is in the game so PVPers don't have to do raids against boring AI to gear up. You can't tank hard mods as a fresh 50 either but somehow people manage to suck up the deaths and repair costs and gear up.

 

PVP in this game is about teamwork, you should almost never be 1v1. It doesn't matter how many times you die, there are no repair costs and you still get rewarded even when your team loses. It takes 6-10 hours of play tops to get full centurion and some champion, less if you did your homework and planed ahead. How much easier could it possibly be?

 

Suck it up and stop making a big deal out of nothing. Bioware has many more important things to worry about then making this game any easier.

[MartyrLXXVII]

EQ beats shadowbane, daoc, and every other MMO in its time.

WoW beats every MMO that came out and every pvp MMO that came out.

We have swtor which is copying WoW and EQ. So it has already been proven that Gear progression MMO makes the most money in any timeline in the history of MMO.

 

There is no such thing as ending the gear grind from what we can see and know of the future patches of SWTOR.

 

The only reason some games haven't been better then WoW isn't because the concepts were bad. Just that the implementation of those concepts were bad.

 

But to use WoW as a poster child for good pvp is simply laughable. Yes they have survived and been far more successful then any other MMO, but its not because of pure quality, more like lemmings... But even so, most of that is still pve based, not pvp.

[Jeopardydd]

EQ beats shadowbane, daoc, and every other MMO in its time.

WoW beats every MMO that came out and every pvp MMO that came out.

We have swtor which is copying WoW and EQ. So it has already been proven that Gear progression MMO makes the most money in any timeline in the history of MMO.

 

There is no such thing as ending the gear grind from what we can see and know of the future patches of SWTOR.

 

 

1) except for wow, those other games didn't do that much better than the others. we are talking a small number of people as the difference.

 

2) lots of gear progression games have failed, suggesting that it may be other reasons that the game that did better actually did better.

 

3) this game has other stuff in it (as do all games). what makes you think that it's doing well because of pvp expertise gear progression rather than, say, the story and voice-overs, or that it's star wars?

 

4) even if expertise-type pvp gear progression is the reason for previous games doing well, that doesn't mean that it will always be so. player's taste change. innovation leads to better things, technology changes, etc.

[xxdragonragexx]

then that's not even progression. it's false progression.

 

LOL! So what is true progression while making your character equal to new or fresh 50s?

New title? New Mount? New Toys?

 

After 3 months, there will be a new better title, new better mount, and new better toys. LOL.

They are all a cycle.

 

The only reason some games haven't been better then WoW isn't because the concepts were bad. Just that the implementation of those concepts were bad.

 

But to use WoW as a poster child for good pvp is simply laughable. Yes they have survived and been far more successful then any other MMO, but its not because of pure quality, more like lemmings... But even so, most of that is still pve based, not pvp.

 

You still don't get it even if I repeat it over and over. More people play WoW pvp and like WoW PvP more than Warhammer, Rift, Planetside, Guild wars and etc. WoW isn't the best pvp. It isn't the most fun. But it is the most successful because it has a great gear progression. This game is the same as WoW. SWTOR IS A PVE GAME. It is a WOW clone.

 

You said it yourself, WoW is the most successful. It is the reason why SWTOR will copy WoW. Why would SWTOR deviate from WoW especially when most MMO pvp doesn't make the same money as WoW?

Edited March 22, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Jeopardydd]

people misusing the term "grind" again, i see.

 

Nothing in this game is a grind.

 

On top of that.. you can walk into level 50 with 5 PvP bags to open, open up 8 more the same day by doing dalies/weeklies, AND have level 50 purples in EVERY SLOT before you ding 50.

 

Daily quests.

 

Belsavis opens up at 47 and the Bonus Series there leads you STRAIGHT THROUGH THEM.

 

Seriously people. Quit rolling into the Warzone in your level 42 quest blues and wondering why you die.

 

 

i had 6 bags ready when my alt got to level 50.

 

I got 1 cent lightsaber (I could have gotten a Champ relic as well, but I waited for armor).

 

that's in. from have 1000/1000 plus one bag in the cargo hold. for that, I had to a) research and plan ahead (which most people won't do and it's not reasonable to expect them to do it) and forgo a considerable amount of the late-level content that Bioware spent so much money on and that I would have liked to experience 9again, which many/most won't do and it's not reasonable to ask them to do).

 

For all that I got, what, 1% from the expertise?

are you fricking kidding me? that's really a reason to have a bad system?

[Jeopardydd]

I am so sick of these QQ posts. The whiners will NEVER be good PVPers because they are too soft and over dramatic. It's already so easy to gear up that if you think it's a big ordeal I question your ability to compete under any circumstance.

 

MMO's are gear based, that's the way it is.

 

PVP gear is in the game so PVPers don't have to do raids against boring AI to gear up. You can't tank hard mods as a fresh 50 either but somehow people manage to suck up the deaths and repair costs and gear up.

 

PVP in this game is about teamwork, you should almost never be 1v1. It doesn't matter how many times you die, there are no repair costs and you still get rewarded even when your team loses. It takes 6-10 hours of play tops to get full centurion and some champion, less if you did your homework and planed ahead. How much easier could it possibly be?

 

Suck it up and stop making a big deal out of nothing. Bioware has many more important things to worry about then making this game any easier.

 

sorry, but the bad players are the ones who nead big gear advantages in pvp, not the ones who want it to be skill-based.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Jeopardydd

[MartyrLXXVII]

LOL! So what is true progression while making your character equal to new or fresh 50s?

New title? New Mount? New Toys?

 

After 3 months, there will be a new better title, new better mount, and new better toys. LOL.

They are all a cycle.

 

Yep it is. But its a better cycle then stat progression.

[Jeopardydd]

LOL! So what is true progression while making your character equal to new or fresh 50s?

New title? New Mount? New Toys?

 

After 3 months, there will be a new better title, new better mount, and new better toys. LOL.

They are all a cycle.

 

 

 

You still don't get it even if I repeat it over and over. More people play WoW pvp and like WoW PvP more than Warhammer, Rift, Planetside, Guild wars and etc. WoW isn't the best pvp. It isn't the most fun. But it is the most successful because it has a great gear progression. This game is the same as WoW. SWTOR IS A PVE GAME. It is a WOW clone.

 

You said it yourself, WoW is the most successful. It is the reason why SWTOR will copy WoW. Why would SWTOR deviate from WoW especially when most MMO pvp doesn't make the same money as WoW?

 

i don't know. come up with some creative ideas if you want.

but forever grinding for newer and newer gear just so you can try to have it be somewhat even and skill-based in pvp is not a fun experience.

[xxdragonragexx]

4) even if expertise-type pvp gear progression is the reason for previous games doing well, that doesn't mean that it will always be so. player's taste change. innovation leads to better things, technology changes, etc.

 

Bioware will not reinvent the wheel. Simple fact is that Star Wars + WoW Clone sold 2 million copies. Changing it to something else like no gear progression can lead to a disaster. I seriously doubt Bioware is going to risk 17 million dollars a month on a gamble and make this game into guild wars which hardly retain any existing players.

 

i don't know. come up with some creative ideas if you want.

but forever grinding for newer and newer gear just so you can try to have it be somewhat even and skill-based in pvp is not a fun experience.

 

Doesn't have to be fun. It just needs to make the most money.

Is leveling from 1 to 50 fun over and over? Ok swtor made it fun or at least less grindy but if you look at other MMO games, leveling from 1 to max is not fun. But people do it. Why do people do something that is not fun? WoW had 11 million people leveling 1 to 50 over and over through the same text based quests. People didn't do it for fun. THis is what Bioware's main focus is. Not fun but MONEY.

Edited March 22, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[ADTRr]

i had 6 bags ready when my alt got to level 50.

 

I got 1 cent lightsaber (I could have gotten a Champ relic as well, but I waited for armor).

 

that's in. from have 1000/1000 plus one bag in the cargo hold. for that, I had to a) research and plan ahead (which most people won't do and it's not reasonable to expect them to do it) and forgo a considerable amount of the late-level content that Bioware spent so much money on and that I would have liked to experience 9again, which many/most won't do and it's not reasonable to ask them to do).

 

For all that I got, what, 1% from the expertise?

are you fricking kidding me? that's really a reason to have a bad system?

 

Lol you are on a mission with these WoW references man calm down dang.

[ADTRr]

Lol you are on a mission with these WoW references man calm down dang.

 

fail i quoted the wrong post. eh too lazy to fix it. anyhow gear isnt hard to get this game is not a grind like seriously it really is not, not even close in fact. die in pvp for a week or grab some friends and play or dont but stop whining about not getting instant gratification with gear. seriously.

[MartyrLXXVII]

LOL! So what is true progression while making your character equal to new or fresh 50s?

New title? New Mount? New Toys?

 

After 3 months, there will be a new better title, new better mount, and new better toys. LOL.

They are all a cycle.

 

 

 

You still don't get it even if I repeat it over and over. More people play WoW pvp and like WoW PvP more than Warhammer, Rift, Planetside, Guild wars and etc. WoW isn't the best pvp. It isn't the most fun. But it is the most successful because it has a great gear progression. This game is the same as WoW. SWTOR IS A PVE GAME. It is a WOW clone.

 

You said it yourself, WoW is the most successful. It is the reason why SWTOR will copy WoW. Why would SWTOR deviate from WoW especially when most MMO pvp doesn't make the same money as WoW?

 

No its not the mosr successful because of great gear progression, its the most successful just because.more people play it the game period.

 

Look at it this way, people here whine about all their hard work for BM being invalidated by 1.2. Well in WoW all your hard work for gear progression is wiped out every time they make an expansion. So why is WoWs progression so great when a lot of the same people here that want stat progression complain about that progression being reset.

 

WoW is a joke, only reason it is still popular is simply people being sheep, same reason people have to buy the new iPad/iPhone all the time. So far one of satire nitrate general failures is copying too much of WoW in fact, especially the pvp.

Edited March 22, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[xxdragonragexx]

WoW is a joke, only reason it is still popular is simply people being sheep, same reason people have to buy the new iPad/iPhone all the time. So far one of satire nitrate general failures is copying too much of WoW in fact, especially the pvp.

 

These are the same people that SWTOR or bioware wants to play their game. Not your type or personality. They want more money with little effort like all company and industry. They want sheeps.

[Jeopardydd]

Bioware will not reinvent the wheel. Simple fact is that Star Wars + WoW Clone sold 2 million copies. Changing it to something else like no gear progression can lead to a disaster. I seriously doubt Bioware is going to risk 17 million dollars a month on a gamble and make this game into guild wars which hardly retain any existing players.

 

 

 

Doesn't have to be fun. It just needs to make the most money.

Is leveling from 1 to 50 fun over and over? Ok swtor made it fun or at least less grindy but if you look at other MMO games, leveling from 1 to max is not fun. But people do it. Why do people do something that is not fun? WoW had 11 million people leveling 1 to 50 over and over through the same text based quests. People didn't do it for fun. THis is what Bioware's main focus is. Not fun but MONEY.

 

i don't give a rat's backside if it makes the most money. I want it to be fun.

hence, my posts on here about what i think would be the most fun.

 

further, you have not shown that expertise-based pvp gear progression makes the most money. there are so many confounding factors in the few examples you gave (and counter-examples such as games with that system that have not done well) that you have shown no such thing.

 

given what you are using as evidence, you might as well say that games must have fishing or orcs to make the most money.

[Jeopardydd]

fail i quoted the wrong post. eh too lazy to fix it. anyhow gear isnt hard to get this game is not a grind like seriously it really is not, not even close in fact. die in pvp for a week or grab some friends and play or dont but stop whining about not getting instant gratification with gear. seriously.

 

pvp is incredibly rage-inducing until you get enough gear to be reasonably competative.

that's not whining, that's pointing out a truth.

 

and a needless one at that. there's no reason that anybody should have to have a big gear advantage to pvp. none.

[propht]

I died 16 times last WZ... and im a tank... DPS tore through me like tissue paper... Bioware should really find a way to integrate the new 50s into the current ones better.

 

grind it out like the rest of us noob.

[xxdragonragexx]

further, you have not shown that expertise-based pvp gear progression makes the most money. there are so many confounding factors in the few examples you gave (and counter-examples such as games with that system that have not done well) that you have shown no such thing.

 

I don't have to prove anything. You can just look at SWTOR and why it is copying most of WoW rather than guild wars, or any other MMO. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. It will not change anything. You can try though, go for it.

[Jeopardydd]

grind it out like the rest of us noob.

 

ah, i see.

 

a bad system should be kept in place because it was bad for someone else before.

 

complete logic fail.

 

 

and btw, not everybody had to go through that. lots of people exploited; or they got there first before lots of other people had the better gear; or before the even split the 50's and the 10-49's. so even your premise is flawed and not just your conclusion.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I made sure I had all orange gear with the best mods I could find when I dinged 50. Yes. It was rough for a couple of days, but I kept plugging at it and now I am almost geared in all champ gear. Still haven't reached valor rank 50, but I hold my own and occasionally am in the top 3. Just keep at it. Also the added challenge will make you a better player because your honed skills will compensate for the lack of gear. Good luck

[anticept]

me too. Cap tokens, bag sitting in my inventory, just turned level 50 with my second character this morning.......

 

pvp is not fun at all now with this level 50 tank. it was fun from level 10-49.

 

Tank needs a healer simple as that.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Oh yeah. I'm also on the Republic side, so that was a hurdle in itself lol.

[xxdragonragexx]

PvPing at 10-20 is a lot more frustrating than pvping as a fresh 50. But then again, I had 230 expertise and did the belsavis/ilum dailies for gear.

[Jeopardydd]

I don't have to prove anything. You can just look at SWTOR and why it is copying most of WoW rather than guild wars, or any other MMO. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. It will not change anything. You can try though, go for it.

 

swtor advertised as have a MAJOR difference from the other mmo's including wow, with the story, the voice-over, and the lack of grinding.

 

which would tend to undermine your thesis that there's only one way of doing something to make money (again, swtor lured people to it by claiming it was different).

 

and even if swtor said it was the same, and even if it was the same, there's absolutely no reason to think that it's doing well because of the expertise pvp gear progression rather than any of the other 1000 things that are the same.

 

you understand this at this point though, we've been over and over it.

i suspect you just want to keep your gear advantage over other people in pvp and are just giving other arguments some perfunctory lip service so you don't admit that you need a gear advantage to have fun in pvp.

[MightyHalo]

 

pvp is not fun at all now with this level 50 tank. it was fun from level 10-49.

 

yeah those level 10s were tough when you were 40+ huh?