Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Raeln]

I agree, appearance is ugly.

 

Good for you. Would you like a cookie?

 

Grind up to BM and 75 valor and then let me know how well you think that bubble works.

 

Oh my, here we go.

 

First, you accuse me of not having experience on a Sage (go level a Sage).

 

Now, you accuse me of not having any PvP experience. (go level to Battlemaster).

 

Bubble is better than the ~15% more armor rating that heavy armor provides. Deal with it. If it doesn't "fire off" for you regularly, then perhaps you are spamming the buttons too much and confusing your ability queue or something.

 

Needless to say, I far prefer the bubble to the nothing my Commando has - and by nothing, I also mean the no Rescue ability and no Battle Rez ability. Other than that, if Consulars weren't so over represented and Commandos weren't so fun to play (rotation wise), I'd deal with the butt-ugly gear models and play my Sage. At least it feels like they have a full toolbox in all aspects of the game.

[Raeln]

The medpack change isn't game breaking but ON TOP of the nerfs to almost every healing class it's kinda perceived as pouring on by a few healers I know.

 

In general I'm not playing a healing class I'll have to relearn every 3-5 months because they want to balance their game. When we can't kill the same HM bosses we could a week before the 1.2 patch went live because I have to relearn heat management and a new rotation; I suffer, I get blamed and I have to stress out. No thanks.

 

I leveled 3 50's just waiting for something like this. It's a quality of life thing like sprint at lvl 1. I don't really care for a nerd rage breakdown of encounter numbers. They should have left it alone to at least give us some perceived breathing room until we actually see the heal changes live.

 

I typically prefer to play a healer. The TOR guild I joined leading up to release had me slated for a raid healer slot up until I got into the first beta weekend. Then I stepped back and took a DPS spot. I chose not to heal until Bioware implements mouseover healing support, better buff/debuff displays and just a more intuitive UI in general.

 

Obviously, I still have a vested interest in healing and compassion for the other healers, which is part of the reason that I hate to see this ill-advised medpack change on top of everything else.

[swiftrav]

I'm sure someone may have already said this but imo BW just move medpack to 180 CD that would let them meet a middle ground of not over useing medpack and lettting people have the ability to use them more then once. With the current ops now the inrage timer is like 6min so this would let people use the rakata/medpack twice in the fight or if it alittle longer then the could heal themselvs to help the healer out or in the case of a "oh noes" moment. Edited March 28, 2012 by swiftrav

[Kyleslater]

I'm sure someone may have already said this but imo BW just move medpack to 180 CD that would let them meet a middle ground of not over useing medpack and lettting people have the ability to use them more then once. With the current ops now the inrage timer is like 6min so this would let people use the rakata/medpack twice in the fight or if it alittle longer then the could heal themselvs to help the healer out or in the case of a "oh noes" moment.

 

Yeah I'm not sure the point of the extra coding myself. it would have been simpler and less likely to cause bugs to just increase the cooldown timer...

[Danakar]

You know why they did it, right?

 

It's because of "PATCH 1.2 - CREDIT SINK!"

 

Combined with the nerfs to healers, this restriction of medpack use will cause more deaths. More deaths means higher repairs. It doesn't make the game challenging (it makes it more annoying though), it's yet another credit sink thinly veiled under the cover of 'game balance'.

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true...

Edited April 6, 2012 by Danakar

[Sunleth]

You know why they did it, right?

 

It's because of "PATCH 1.2 - CREDIT SINK!"

 

Combined with the nerfs to healers, this restriction of medpack use will cause more deaths. More deaths means higher repairs. It doesn't make the game challenging (it makes it more annoying though), it's yet another credit sink thinly veiled under the cover of 'game balance'.

 

Search your feelings, you know it to be true...

 

Haven't thought of this change that way!

[Visue]

 

This is a huge mistake.

 

 

Agreed.

[bzImage]

Bioware doesn't care nor are they listening, let us pray private servers arrive soon and goddamn you bioware for ignoring me, I will MAKE You hear me. You WILL fix the 1.2 disaster or you WILL be replaced.

[Reeny]

One solution:

 

Allow one medpac per fight only for Operations and PvP.

 

If outside of Operations, such as Flashpoints, quests, regular fights, let people use as many medpacs as they want.

 

Since Bioware is concerned only with Ops tuning, limit the use of medpacs only during Ops.

[Reeny]

Continue catering to the whiny "hardcore" players and see the game fail, like wow.

 

There is a reason why cata failed so bad because the heroics/raids whatever were all super hard and healing was just ridiculously difficult. No one ran those instances and quit.

 

They brought back easy mode LFR PUG raids and people were having fun again.

[stephenjohnp]

Rarely do fights last long enough to warrant multiple uses of medpacs, so it doesn't really matter.

[Twickers]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but at MOST I MIGHT use two medpacs in a fight, often I really only ever use one, so this change wont even affect me very much.

 

Don't forget if fights are being deemed too hard for story mode they can always go and tune it better by lowering enemy damage or decreasing their HP. There's just too many variables with leaving medpacs the way they are, though maybe if they choose to not go through with this or revert it later why not make the CD on medpacs two minutes instead? It's the same as most other defensive CD's and those are constantly being popped to ease stress on healers or for moments of extreme raid damage.

 

Just my two credits.

[Hookander]

This is huge mistake. The thing what bioware may wants to stop, is that everyone uses Biochem at least PVPers... and I think they want to balance out the other crafting skills to be important too.

 

Problem is that again they fail about improving this game....

 

They should add more mechanics to crafting skills to make them more useable together. Eg in PVP:

 

Cybertech: Can make battle droids, other moveable robots like healbot

Armortech: Can make Tech based shields: walls, blockades

Armstech: Can make Tech based weapons: turrets

Biochem: medpacks and stims (not changed)

Artificer: Force based gadgets (shield bubbles)

 

These changes a lot the game itself. When you can actually create a defensive turret on your hutt ball goal line, but they should be destoyable too and works like medkits... 1,5min cooldown... lasts like 15sec

 

IMO this is the way how to balance and make crafting skills more versatile in combat too. Not totally nerfing one crafting skill to zero.. Even the post starter already mentioned the group related combat issues.

[longgrassgrows]

how can they design challenging fights around players being able to just pop medpacks every 90 seconds

 

deal with it bub

 

ummmm...nerf the medpacks maybe

[Senefera]

ummmm...nerf the medpacks maybe

 

That would make sense.

Can't have stuff making sense in 1.2.

[Shonuff]

I realy don't see the big deal here.

 

This nerf is primarily for Operations and Flashoints in order to give players a challange and make Healers a more focused role in these situations. Most HM operation bosses (the really nasty ones) take 10 to 15 minutes or so to kill thats roughly 4 to 7 medpacs in one fight. per person Add good healers and if your well organized, no one with decent gear and experience should wipe. Thats too easy.

 

In PvP you almost always will use only 1 medpac per fight if necessary. In most cases you may not survive a 3 to 4 player gank on you even if you use a medpac, if your not buffed up the arse your gonna die regardless.

 

Like I said, I think it's not a big deal. Just makes thigns interesting.

[abreen]

Hmmm I was actually hoping they would decrease the cooldown the cooldown is way too long especially for non healers....I hope they don't release 1.2 anytime soon because I'm just not happy with it at all

[Wookieluva]

this is obviously a attempt to keep my sage from using Noble sacrifice then just medpacking to regen force, since that was entirely my plan to keep my dps and healing just as high and lasting as before 1.2. now i will have to think of a new strategy to bypass the sage nerf....

[Sunleth]

I realy don't see the big deal here.

 

This nerf is primarily for Operations and Flashoints in order to give players a challange and make Healers a more focused role in these situations. Most HM operation bosses (the really nasty ones) take 10 to 15 minutes or so to kill thats roughly 4 to 7 medpacs in one fight. per person Add good healers and if your well organized, no one with decent gear and experience should wipe. Thats too easy.

 

In PvP you almost always will use only 1 medpac per fight if necessary. In most cases you may not survive a 3 to 4 player gank on you even if you use a medpac, if your not buffed up the arse your gonna die regardless.

 

Like I said, I think it's not a big deal. Just makes thigns interesting.

 

If a boss is on farm status, why shouldn't raids be able to kill the boss in one try? And if a raid is well organized, why shouldn't they be allowed to kill a boss without wiping?

 

And you're only looking at what medpacks do on live servers without taking into consideration how the change affects all the other changes in 1.2--healing nerfs in pvp and sorc/sage nerfs in general.

[Tiars]

1- There exists no mechanic to determine when a fight over and the next mob begins for your character alone. Considering that there exists a bug where you companion agros mobs on it's own now.... this becomes even more problematic.

 

For your character the timer to use another should start once combat ends, even for a millisecond. Even in the case where your companion agros a mob after combat ends there should be enough of a break to start the countdown to using it again. Also the bug effects can be minimized through how you set up your companion.

 

2- Group mechanics currently can not differentiate if you are out of combat if your party wanders off and attacks something while you yourself are trying to catch a second wind. This is clearly demonstrated by elevators that will not let you use them if you party is in combat, loot boxes that can not be opened and the like.

 

Well the party should not be wandering off. Some of the mechanics that you mention are to prevent zerging a fight. Some other games do not even allow you into the Flashpoint/Operation until all combat ends. Bioware is not being different from today's common practice.

 

2a- Does anyone NOT see a problem when -1- member of a Operation is -stuck- in combat mode and no one can use a med pack????

 

Since the developers do not seem to want to go down the path of medpac use being a primary healing mechanism instead of healing classes this change makes a lot of sense. The alternative would be for boss fights to include lots of AOE damage to force players to constantly use medpacs so that boss damage is only healed through the use of healers in the group.

 

But that also means that those same developers need to review the mechanisms where a member gets stuck as flagged in combat when they are not and that does need to be fixed.

 

3-This change was not asked for by the player community.

 

The players did not request this directly. They did request more PvE content. This seems to be a change to minimize the variables that must be considered so that new PvE content can be created faster. That was requested by the player community.

[Smashbrother]

I don't see the issue with this. The game is incredibly easy (except Soa perhaps) already. Last night I cleared a HM KP when one of our healers had 13.5k hp (he was lulz geared) and the other was just in columni.

 

BW needs to make healing more reliant on healers and not medpacs.

[Agooz]

3.you dont need users feedback to make changes

 

and 1-2 try it before you complain, it might sound like its a bad change but TRY it before posting negative feedback. Lowering the reuse on pvp medpacks is a nice change, and the game does have systems inplace to track when your out of combat, if your group seems to be chain pulling try saying stop for 5 seconds its not like its a big deal really.

 

This change will have absolutely no baring on pvp. Players will be able to use medpacks as they do now in pvp, simply because fights dont last for more than a few seconds. I dont think I ever was in a WZ where I wasnt out of combat for an entire 2minutes straight.

Also in pve leveling content, or running HMs, again this will not have any impact. The only thing this change will affect is Boss fights in Operations.

[DawnAskham]

From the title I thought this was going to be:

 

"Medpacks...are you kidding me?!?!?!? Do some of you actually need these to play this game?!?!?!?"

 

It is a PVE change, it is a good change, and if you really need medpacks as a crutch for any aspect of this game, you need to step up your play a bit and you'll find it a non-issue.

 

And yes, this was asked for directly and indirectly by players wanting to see this game develop content that is challenging with mechanics that require players to coordinate with each other while performing at their best, rather than have content that lets players just grab anyone with gear and a stack of biochem consumables and brute force everything.

Edited April 7, 2012 by DawnAskham

[SkuzBukit]

The content they released for launch was judged " too easy" by the developers even though they had QA & internal testers & beta to get it right they are saying they didn't? No they are not saying that.

 

Read between the lines & you realise they moved the goal posts on the design goals for Operations & HM Flashpoints, mostly because they cannot crank out new ones fast enough to meet demand, a common problem in most games early life-cycle.

 

By upping the ante & making Operations harder they are hoping that it will take longer to complete & this will then buy them time by giving players content challenging enough that they won't be bored quite so fast, problem is all it does is have a steeper "learning curve" meaning that once players have learned the mechanics it is placed on farm status quite soon, no matter how hard you make content, it will become boring in relatively similar amounts of time, "changes of scenery" need to be pretty rapid & difficulty is a smallish part of that equation, I say this from over 10 years of experience of endgame & raid content.

 

But worse than easy content is "bugged to hell" content, players can cope with hard, but buggy is infuriating, regardless of how difficult content is, buggy will drive players away.

[Moshpet]

From the title I thought this was going to be:

 

"Medpacks...are you kidding me?!?!?!? Do some of you actually need these to play this game?!?!?!?"

 

It is a PVE change, it is a good change, and if you really need medpacks as a crutch for any aspect of this game, you need to step up your play a bit and you'll find it a non-issue.

 

And yes, this was asked for directly and indirectly by players wanting to see this game develop content that is challenging with mechanics that require players to coordinate with each other while performing at their best, rather than have content that lets players just grab anyone with gear and a stack of biochem consumables and brute force everything.

 

This isn't a 'learn to play' issue like you seem to think it is.

 

The game has problems determining when a fight ends. Agro problems with pets (companions.) Not to mention class fights that drag on and on, unless you are over level for them.

 

Not to mention the party mechanics, that can't tell if one player is in combat or if everyone is. (Simply put the methods for determining that state is is outdated.)

 

I solo a lot, I also end up fighting things 2-4 levels higher than myself all the time. I use the medpacks. I much prefer them to be left alone especially when underlying game mechanics are being messed with and classes adjusted.

 

Doing both the medpack nerf and the class nerf/buffs at the same time is not a rational plan of action.

 

It's clearly not well thought out.