cashogy Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 i play a merc pyro, and i would agree our dps was a little over the top. with the right set up of abilities, you could hit a target for 8-10k in the span of 2 seconds, which is very tough to recover from. the change to PPA will likely not affect damage output or heat management very much. we have vent heat and thermal override when your heat gets too high. i would welcome an increase in chance to proc, even with the internal cooldown. as the OP pointed out, the chance of getting 3 procs in a row is 4%. personally, the most ive ever gotten is 2 in a row, and ive been playing the spec for several months now. the part of the update i am most annoyed about is forcing us to use the Combustible gas cylinder in order for PPA to work. i had been using the High velocity cylinder (extra armor pen) for the increased spikes. ive recently switched to combustible so i can adjust to the play style for 1.2, and i can say that CGC helps with heat management. i will tap a target with rapid shots before i do anything to see if i can land a DoT, which then saves me 25 heat on an incendiary missile. overall im fine with the change. good players will overcome this minor setback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I mean that it should be balanced within some respect. My point is that the changes will have a marginal effect overall, and the three people beating their war drums know it. Pyrotechs are overpowered right now, and reducing their effect a little bit isn't even going to change that. You have essentially just quoted the OP. Read very carefully: 1. Pyro PTs and Assault Spec Vanguards are OP. 2. They needed a nerf. 3. The current nerf is too much. All you are saying is that you disagree with #3. However, you do not play a Pyro PT or an Assault Spec Vanguard. If you did, you wouldn't have said they have a knockback. Hell, you should know that even if you don't play one. Those of us who do play the spec extensively in PVP and PVE disagree with you. Our data, our math, and our experience with the class should outweigh your inexperience and assumptions. End of discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu_Bei Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) i play a merc pyro, and i would agree our dps was a little over the top. with the right set up of abilities, you could hit a target for 8-10k in the span of 2 seconds, which is very tough to recover from. the change to PPA will likely not affect damage output or heat management very much. we have vent heat and thermal override when your heat gets too high. i would welcome an increase in chance to proc, even with the internal cooldown. as the OP pointed out, the chance of getting 3 procs in a row is 4%. personally, the most ive ever gotten is 2 in a row, and ive been playing the spec for several months now. the part of the update i am most annoyed about is forcing us to use the Combustible gas cylinder in order for PPA to work. i had been using the High velocity cylinder (extra armor pen) for the increased spikes. ive recently switched to combustible so i can adjust to the play style for 1.2, and i can say that CGC helps with heat management. i will tap a target with rapid shots before i do anything to see if i can land a DoT, which then saves me 25 heat on an incendiary missile. overall im fine with the change. good players will overcome this minor setback ^Very reasonable. All you are saying is that you disagree with #3. However, you do not play a Pyro PT or an Assault Spec Vanguard. If you did, you wouldn't have said they have a knockback. Hell, you should know that even if you don't play one. I have a 32 Pyrotech PT. I thought Thermal Grenade was a KB that worked on players, but I was obviously mistaken. I have 31 valor, which, of course, isn't a feat for a Pyrotech because they're OP. My main is a juggernaut in full centurion/champion gear. Edited March 23, 2012 by Lu_Bei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theology Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 i play a merc pyro, and i would agree our dps was a little over the top. with the right set up of abilities, you could hit a target for 8-10k in the span of 2 seconds, which is very tough to recover from. the change to PPA will likely not affect damage output or heat management very much. we have vent heat and thermal override when your heat gets too high. i would welcome an increase in chance to proc, even with the internal cooldown. as the OP pointed out, the chance of getting 3 procs in a row is 4%. personally, the most ive ever gotten is 2 in a row, and ive been playing the spec for several months now. the part of the update i am most annoyed about is forcing us to use the Combustible gas cylinder in order for PPA to work. i had been using the High velocity cylinder (extra armor pen) for the increased spikes. ive recently switched to combustible so i can adjust to the play style for 1.2, and i can say that CGC helps with heat management. i will tap a target with rapid shots before i do anything to see if i can land a DoT, which then saves me 25 heat on an incendiary missile. overall im fine with the change. good players will overcome this minor setback ~50% cut in heat regen and Railshots, not to mention the huge increase in auto attacking we will be doing isn't too bad i guess. Both of which would be solved by putting the ICD to 4.5 instead of 6. Or just making PPA a flat CD reducer to make RS a 6 second CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 i play a merc pyro, and i would agree our dps was a little over the top. with the right set up of abilities, you could hit a target for 8-10k in the span of 2 seconds, which is very tough to recover from. the change to PPA will likely not affect damage output or heat management very much. we have vent heat and thermal override when your heat gets too high. i would welcome an increase in chance to proc, even with the internal cooldown. as the OP pointed out, the chance of getting 3 procs in a row is 4%. personally, the most ive ever gotten is 2 in a row, and ive been playing the spec for several months now. the part of the update i am most annoyed about is forcing us to use the Combustible gas cylinder in order for PPA to work. i had been using the High velocity cylinder (extra armor pen) for the increased spikes. ive recently switched to combustible so i can adjust to the play style for 1.2, and i can say that CGC helps with heat management. i will tap a target with rapid shots before i do anything to see if i can land a DoT, which then saves me 25 heat on an incendiary missile. overall im fine with the change. good players will overcome this minor setback With all due respect, the PT Pyro nerf is NO WHERE near what's happening with Mercs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GianBaal Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I have a 32 Pyrotech PT. I thought Thermal Grenade was a KB that worked on players, but I was obviously mistaken. I have 31 valor, which, of course, isn't a feat for a Pyrotech because they're OP. My main is a juggernaut in full centurion/champion gear. hehehe, I loled hard. Good one m8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theology Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 With all due respect, the PT Pyro nerf is NO WHERE near what's happening with Mercs. Also this ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I have a 32 Pyrotech PT. I thought Thermal Grenade was a KB that worked on players, but I was obviously mistaken. I have 31 valor, which, of course, isn't a feat for a Pyrotech because they're OP. You have valor 31 and you thought Thermal Grenade knocked players back? Sorry man, but I am struggling to take you seriously. You should really comment on a class with which you have experience playing in lvl 50 warzones, were you will routinely face enemies with 18k health and more utility than Pyro PTs have. Edited March 23, 2012 by hoyasaxa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu_Bei Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ~50% cut in heat regen and Railshots, not to mention the huge increase in auto attacking we will be doing isn't too bad i guess. Both of which would be solved by putting the ICD to 4.5 instead of 6. Or just making PPA a flat CD reducer to make RS a 6 second CD. Err, 4.5 vs 6 isn't a 50% difference. And with the proc increase, you're basically guaranteeing a 6 second average, whereas the current system getting 4.5 doesn't always happen. What's your problem with rapid shots? With combustible cylinder it keeps the damage stacking, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theology Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ^Very reasonable. I have a 32 Pyrotech PT. I thought Thermal Grenade was a KB that worked on players, but I was obviously mistaken. I have 31 valor, which, of course, isn't a feat for a Pyrotech because they're OP. My main is a juggernaut in full centurion/champion gear. LOL. Man, oh man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theology Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Err, 4.5 vs 6 isn't a 50% difference. And with the proc increase, you're basically guaranteeing a 6 second average, whereas the current system getting 4.5 doesn't always happen. What's your problem with rapid shots? With combustible cylinder it keeps the damage stacking, at least. Everything in this post is wrong and I don't even care enough to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Err, 4.5 vs 6 isn't a 50% difference. And with the proc increase, you're basically guaranteeing a 6 second average, whereas the current system getting 4.5 doesn't always happen. What's your problem with rapid shots? With combustible cylinder it keeps the damage stacking, at least. Holy hell man, you just keep at it. You are NOT guaranteed a proc. On average, you will get it once every two (2) of the possible attacks. Meaning your AVERAGE will be one every 9 seconds. The math is not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu_Bei Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Well, I'm not the only one holding these opinions. The guy above also thinks very closely to what I do. And hes not trollolololing lke you four have been from that start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Everything in this post is wrong and I don't even care enough to fix it. I tried. Shame on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu_Bei Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Holy hell man, you just keep at it. You are NOT guaranteed a proc. On average, you will get it once every two (2) of the possible attacks. Meaning your AVERAGE will be one every 9 seconds. The math is not hard. Flaming burst has, what, a 1 second cooldown? And you think you're not going to proc once in 6 seconds? The real problem is, you guys know you're riding on the coattails of an OP class and you know changing that will send you back to mediocrity. Learn to throttle. Edited March 23, 2012 by Lu_Bei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Flaming burst has, what, a 1 second cooldown? And you think you're not going to proc once in 6 seconds? ........................You can't try for a proc until after the 6 seconds are done. How have you missed out on that crucial piece of information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theology Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Ok, is this guy serious? inb4 'i was just trollololing u gaise' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Flaming burst has, what, a 1 second cooldown? And you think you're not going to proc once in 6 seconds? The real problem is, you guys know you're riding on the coattails of an OP class and you know changing that will send you back to mediocrity. Learn to throttle. ........ do you understand what an internal CD is? also, pyro has to throttle more so than any other pt spec, and now half of their attacks will be rapid shots. Edited March 23, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GianBaal Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 You have valor 31 and you thought Thermal Grenade knocked players back? Sorry man, but I am struggling to take you seriously. You should really comment on a class with which you have experience playing in lvl 50 warzones, were you will routinely face enemies with 18k health and more utility than Pyro PTs have. No.1, clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taerrik Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Flaming burst has, what, a 1 second cooldown? And you think you're not going to proc once in 6 seconds? So lets finish the thought all the way through so you will see it Yes, flame burst will likely proc it once in 6 seconds... BUT THEN, you have to wait 6 seconds, until it is POSSIBLE to flame burst to proc it at all, not 6 seconds and rail shot procs, its 6 seconds and you get a chance to proc. So on average with the new chance upgrade, its 3 seconds to get it to proc, so 6 seconds of no chance, plus 3 second average (that your not guaranteed) and you have a railshot every 9 seconds... maybe. And after it procs, you have to wait 6 more seconds before you can try to proc it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu_Bei Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 ........................You can't try for a proc until after the 6 seconds are done. How have you missed out on that crucial piece of information? Meaning proc will be between 6 and 7.75 seconds. How do you get ~50% out of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Ok, is this guy serious? inb4 'i was just trollololing u gaise' I kinda hope its a trollolol. Because if not, its a failure of reading comprehension, and that would make me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyasaxa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Meaning proc will be between 6 and 7.75 seconds. How do you get ~50% out of that? Wrong again. Global Cooldown is 1.5 seconds. An average of 2 attacks at 1.5 seconds each = 3 seconds. 6+3=9. Now are we done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitfoot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 More predictable damage is preferred by good players, and this is what PT Pyro is getting with these changes. You will only have 3 GCDs (4.5 seconds as the other 1.5 will be the Rail Shot you use on proc) in which PPA will not benefit you, and you should be able to track 3 GCDs. Good PTs will utilize other abilities during the PPA ICD to manage heat and maximize dps. These changes are thought out to keep some fluidity in the rotation to make things interesting without too much random feast/famine scenarios. The changes are good because it actually raises the skillcap on PT Pyro. Apart from not agreeing with your post (what other abilities, what 2 buttons more?) you obviously missed that they are nerfing our damage when its pretty much on par atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GianBaal Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Flaming burst has, what, a 1 second cooldown? And you think you're not going to proc once in 6 seconds? The real problem is, you guys know you're riding on the coattails of an OP class and you know changing that will send you back to mediocrity. Learn to throttle. Nobody with more brains than their usual breakfast is believing you're serious. Why try so hard when it is so obvious? It was fun the first time, but now you start to make a fool out of yourself... Edited March 23, 2012 by GianBaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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