Regault Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I believe I remember seeing a picture from early beta where there were combat logs in the game so gg bioware. They were in the game up until they switched from the black and red UI to the blue and white UI. The log disappeared at almost the same time as high resolution textures so I'm pretty sure it was performance related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solikepoison Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Whatever happened to kids wanting a game to be challenging? If this game were that easy or easier, it would not be fun, the game mechanics are made certain ways for the game to be fair to everyone, and if you cant beat a boss simply get more people with better skills. people who rage quit over small changes or improvements or lack of change that 10 people want is insane, the game is great and only gets better. I wouldnt play a game if I could kill a level 50 boss at level 1. It called a challenge, their not gonna hand you free stuff and let you exploit a boss for exp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seallone Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Before I start, let me say that I have a feeling a forum manager will see this and think this is about dps meters and want to close the thread, but while it is partly about that, it is more about boss mechanics. When you look at boss mechanics in this game it is clear that their favorite boss mechanic is the enrage timer. If you don't kill a boss in x amount of time, the boss will enrage. Every HM FP has at least one boss, EV ran on normal mode has 4 out of the 5 bosses with an enrage timer and hard mode every boss has an enrage timer. In KP normal mode, 3 out of 5 bosses have an enrage timer and on hard mode, every boss has an enrage timer. So basically, they tell the player base that if you want to complete any dungeon, your dps has to do at least x amount of dps or chances are you will end up wiping. By using this mechanic on many bosses, it only pushes the player base to have the want/need to be able to evaluate their group members to see if they have the required dps to down the bosses. Now here's the contradiction. On one hand they want you to have the right amount of dps, but on the other hand they want to make it very hard to see if the dps in your group has the required dps by not allowing the use of damage meters or public combat logs. Currently, the only way to see if your group has the dps to beat an enrage timer is by... getting killed by the boss. When that happens you know your group doesn't have the dps, but you don't know WHO doesn't have the dps so you don't know who to help improve their gameplay or for some people, who to replace. In 1.2, you'll have to have each member of the group save the file, run a parser, upload the data, have some members of the group look over the logs, and finally see which person has the required dps. This will take about 20 minutes and it's very cumbersome. So basically they are going to have to make a decision at some point. Either get away from the enrage mechanic so that instead of dps mattering it's group skill and coordination that matters, or they are going to have to give us the ability to see who in the group has the dps required for the fight by giving us public logs or damage meters. Whether they realize it or not, their boss designers are in a huge contradiction with their public policy designers. TLDR: If you don't want to have a situation where people judge others dps, then don't use boss mechanics that promote that behavior. WOW if this is true, i am glad im a pvper,O wait(ilum) That sucks, should it be about skill, knowing what to do,ect, Sound's very cheap. carn't be true. na No really, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent- Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Enrage timers is one of the stupidest features in newer MMOs. It's ridiculous. Back in my days in galaxies all you needed was a group that actually knew what to do and some of the bosses were a fun challenge or just an interesting approach. Anyone who has played in the later days when they introduced heroics knows what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennygold Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I also think that having enrage timers without some metric to see who is letting the team down is an issue. I consider myself to be a good player, so will already look external to my play if I hit an enrage. The problem is when everyone is along this line of thinking and no-one is willing to admit they are underperforming. On a side note... I can understand where the anti-dps meters crowd are coming from, but to be honest, the way they promote their point of view is not any better than the pro crowd who they are so against. I have seen cases of anti- people being elitist against pro people here because using dps meters is seen as a handicap. I hope that dps meters including the whole party / op are not too far away. There is nothing wrong with comparing yourself to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seallone Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 They will not. those are out of game logs you have to be out of game to see there will be no real time spec tweaking or rotation modifications. its the most ridiculous excuse for damage logs. we need DPS meeters. Out of game logs, WHAT ? Playig pvp, and the mess that it, i knew there was a reason for no logs, now we get OUT OF GAME LOGS, make it hard for player ? Why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farho Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 only bad players don't want dps meters. if I want to improve myself, the only way is to compare myself with a better player and realise that I can do better than what I thought was good enough. BW should let us improve ourselves if that's our choice. unless you feel the same way, you'll do fine with story modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmius Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Out of game logs, WHAT ? Playig pvp, and the mess that it, i knew there was a reason for no logs, now we get OUT OF GAME LOGS, make it hard for player ? Why Basically it comes down to them thinking that only elitist players like to use damage meters so they wanted to make it "extra work" to see yours and other peoples dps. Also, damage meters are an easy way to discriminate against other players and that type of behavior is bad. Because it can happen, they decided to remove the ability to easily see how your other group mates perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Whatever happened to kids wanting a game to be challenging? If this game were that easy or easier, it would not be fun, the game mechanics are made certain ways for the game to be fair to everyone, and if you cant beat a boss simply get more people with better skills. people who rage quit over small changes or improvements or lack of change that 10 people want is insane, the game is great and only gets better. I wouldnt play a game if I could kill a level 50 boss at level 1. It called a challenge, their not gonna hand you free stuff and let you exploit a boss for exp We've been over this. Enrage timers are the laziest way to add challenge to any encounter. They have no creative game mechanics and simply turn each and every encounter into a gear check combined with a spec check and party makeup lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) only bad players don't want dps meters. if I want to improve myself, the only way is to compare myself with a better player and realise that I can do better than what I thought was good enough. BW should let us improve ourselves if that's our choice. unless you feel the same way, you'll do fine with story modes. and only griefers want dps meters... We have been down this path of generalities in the 3000+ combat log posts. Neither is true but it seems like a small segment of players want to keep posting both like they are fact. Edited March 21, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Enrage timers is one of the stupidest features in newer MMOs. It's ridiculous. No kidding. So much wrong with the mechanic of using enrage times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkhawkXY Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I agree it is a contridiction. I for one would rather see the game go the opposite direction and get rid of enrage timers, rather than adding in damage meters. Bioware has stated that they want all characters and skill paths to be useful in end-game raiding, but even now that is not the case. As soon as you add damage meters it becomes a theorycrafing orgy to find the best possible spec and then everyone who wants to raid is expected to use that build. I would like to see boss fights incorporate more of the utility features that are so abundant in many of the classes. I would like to be able to run with 3 healers, or 3 tanks and still finish a raid... perhaps just add other incentives (more loot or titles) to those who want to run the perfect set up. As it stands almost every boss fight (besides the 2 puzzle bosses) is a straight up DPS race, with a small number of mechanics thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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