Bioware, what is Rating, and how does it work?

[Zaodon]

The 1.2 patch notes do not explain, at all, what Rating is (for Rated Warzones), how it works (how does it go up or down), how are Warzones made (matches players on Rating? Some other method?), what affects Rating (time, rating of opponent, etc.)

 

We need way more info on Ratings. Please share.

[Zeez]

Im not sure but it looks like you still can join losing warzones, which could potentially hurt your rating if its based on won/loss.

 

Id love to see a que feature where you can select to join games in progress for a faster Q or just only join new games.

[HKDeath]

Im not sure but it looks like you still can join losing warzones, which could potentially hurt your rating if its based on won/loss.

 

Id love to see a que feature where you can select to join games in progress for a faster Q or just only join new games.

 

bwahahahahahahahaha!

 

I guess another question would be about the future and if these ratings are persistent through the lifetime of your character or if they are planning to reset them once new "seasons" begin.

 

Because with all the hacks available right now you know hackers are just going to be hacking away left and right. That will hurt your rating. And people quitting because of hacks will hurt your rating. And then zoning into an in progress loss because people quit and others are hacking will hurt your rating.

 

So some confirmation that their will be periodic resets would be good.

Edited March 19, 2012 by HKDeath

[Brezerk]

read the whole patch notes

 

PvP stats, such as kills, Group Rating, Solo Rating, MVP votes received, total Warzone wins, and more are now tracked and can be seen on the Warzone Window. Highest Solo and Group Ratings can also be seen on the Character page. Highest Solo and Group Ratings can also be seen on the "Who" list.

 

After a Ranked Warzone has ended, your Solo Rating or Group Rating will be adjusted based on the outcome of the match and the ratings of all players participating.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Brezerk

[SageH]

The 1.2 patch notes do not explain, at all, what Rating is (for Rated Warzones), how it works (how does it go up or down), how are Warzones made (matches players on Rating? Some other method?), what affects Rating (time, rating of opponent, etc.)

 

We need way more info on Ratings. Please share.

 

It's based on the ELO system derived from Chess Tournaments. You gain/lose a specific amount of rating based on whether you win or lose against your opponent and the amount you gain or lose is dependent on your ranking vs theirs. If you significantly outrank them and lose, you lose more rating than if you were close together or if they exceeded you. Similarly, if you win vs a team that has a much higher rating than you you win more rating points.

 

It's a system based on the preconception that if faced against a higher rated opponent you should statistically lose the majority of the time. So if you win, you win big. If you lose, you lose small because it was expected. The opposite is also true. It's about the most balanced rating system out there for comparing and rewarding competitive play.

 

My explanation may not be the best, but it's the best i can give you right now.

[Meltheran]

The other question that needs to be asked is if leaving a warzone has an affect on your rating. If not people could leave just before losing to keep their rating.

 

Of course that is going to have a negative affect on your gear progression since you will need the comms to purchase gear. But it may need to be addressed.

 

(And it may have already been addressed and I just missed it.)

[Zaodon]

read the whole patch notes

 

Yeah, none of that answers the questions in the OP.

 

read the whole OP.

[Zaodon]

It's based on the ELO system derived from Chess Tournaments. You gain/lose a specific amount of rating based on whether you win or lose against your opponent and the amount you gain or lose is dependent on your ranking vs theirs. If you significantly outrank them and lose, you lose more rating than if you were close together or if they exceeded you. Similarly, if you win vs a team that has a much higher rating than you you win more rating points.

 

It's a system based on the preconception that if faced against a higher rated opponent you should statistically lose the majority of the time. So if you win, you win big. If you lose, you lose small because it was expected. The opposite is also true. It's about the most balanced rating system out there for comparing and rewarding competitive play.

 

My explanation may not be the best, but it's the best i can give you right now.

 

Please point me to the place in the patch notes which confirms this?

 

Also, this system simply can't work in SWTOR. I don't beat "a player". Its 8 v 8, there is no possible way such a system could possibly work.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Zaodon

[SageH]

Please point me to the place in the patch notes which confirms this?

 

Also, this system simply can't work in SWTOR. I don't beat "a player". Its 8 v 8, there is no possible way such a system could possibly work.

 

It in the patch notes, the guild summit video, probably many other places. You have two ELO ratings, Solo and Group. Solo is obviously rating based on you joining PUG teams. Group ELO rating is based on your success with the team you queue up with. In the future when BW enables the ability to create actual teams, then group ELO will be associated to that, but until then it's about your success with whatever group you queue up with.

 

ELO is used in many team v team games as well as 1v1 games. LoL is a good example of a very strong ELO system in place. It absolutely can work, and it will. It's a better system for tracking success than a simple win/loss ratio.

 

Edited for Clarity:

 

Ranked Warzones

 

Pre-Season One of Ranked Warzones has begun!Participate for more competitive matches and greater rewards.

 

Level 50 players can queue solo or in a group of up to 8 players via the Queue Solo Ranked and Queue Group Ranked buttons in the Warzone Queue Window.

 

After a Ranked Warzone has ended, your Solo Rating or Group Rating will be adjusted based on the outcome of the match and the ratings of all players participating.

 

Players are rewarded Ranked Warzone Commendations based on performance; these Commendations can be used to purchase the new War Hero PvP gear.

 

Players with high ratings can purchase Rated War Hero gear and vehicles. Rated War Hero gear has the same stats as War Hero gear, but has a more prestigious appearance.

 

It's an ELO system. How they are going to approach/address people who leave the match early to preserve their rating, I would imagine it would be the same as any game where ELO is used. If you leave early it's counted as a loss.

Edited March 19, 2012 by SageH

[Onager]

!@#$ing ratings, how do they work?

[Zaodon]

It in the patch notes, the guild summit video, probably many other places. You have two ELO ratings, Solo and Group. Solo is obviously rating based on you joining PUG teams. Group ELO rating is based on your success with the team you queue up with. In the future when BW enables the ability to create actual teams, then group ELO will be associated to that, but until then it's about your success with whatever group you queue up with.

 

ELO is used in many team v team games as well as 1v1 games. LoL is a good example of a very strong ELO system in place. It absolutely can work, and it will. It's a better system for tracking success than a simple win/loss ratio.

 

Edited for Clarity:

After a Ranked Warzone has ended, your Solo Rating or Group Rating will be adjusted based on the outcome of the match and the ratings of all players participating.

 

 

It's an ELO system. How they are going to approach/address people who leave the match early to preserve their rating, I would imagine it would be the same as any game where ELO is used. If you leave early it's counted as a loss.

 

That still doesn't tell me how it works. Its one mega-huge assumption that we all know everything there is to know about EMU, or ELMO, or whatever the hell the acronym is/stands for.

[SageH]

That still doesn't tell me how it works. Its one mega-huge assumption that we all know everything there is to know about EMU, or ELMO, or whatever the hell the acronym is/stands for.

 

Rather than whine and throw a tantrum, perhaps you should look it up and learn something on your own. I'm done spoon feeding someone who is ungrateful for the information.

[Onager]

That still doesn't tell me how it works. Its one mega-huge assumption that we all know everything there is to know about EMU, or ELMO, or whatever the hell the acronym is/stands for.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

 

If you played WoW Arena or SC2 ladder, it's like that. It functions as both a matchmaking system and a metric of your progress. Good team loses to a worse team, worse team gets a big jump in rating. Good team smashes a worse team, Good team only gains a couple points.

 

Overall, your rating will eventually even out to a relatively accurate approximation of how good your team actually is in the field, and match you against people that are within your general ballpark of skill.

[Brezerk]

Please point me to the place in the patch notes which confirms this?

 

Also, this system simply can't work in SWTOR. I don't beat "a player". Its 8 v 8, there is no possible way such a system could possibly work.

 

by that logic, YOU dont beat anyone, your team beats their team

[Zeez]

Still no answer to joining a losing game near the end ruining your rating or not? Does time in a match matter? Maybe if they take time in match as a multiplier it could work.

 

Lets say the match lasts 10 minutes:

 

Players 1-7 stay the whole time and win they get 100%

Player 8 drops and a new player 8 "Joe" joins.

The team loses and Joe was in the match for 1 minute; why should Joe be punished because across the board it will be horrid due to time limitations.

 

Now lets say they win instead of losing should Joe get full rewards for 1 minutes work because someone else probably disconnected?

 

People could argue though that in that 1 minute Joe was amazing and scored 3 times because hes no ordinary Joe. He would be worthy of 100% rewards right? Well if he was so amazing then even his partial multplier would be decent because of his medals etc he earned. Maybe he wins a bunch of mvp votes.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

I still think they should allow you to chose by option to join warzones in progress or only new warzones.

[SageH]

Still no answer to joining a losing game near the end ruining your rating or not? Does time in a match matter? Maybe if they take time in match as a multiplier it could work.

 

Lets say the match lasts 10 minutes:

 

Players 1-7 stay the whole time and win they get 100%

Player 8 drops and a new player 8 "Joe" joins.

The team loses and Joe was in the match for 1 minute; why should Joe be punished because across the board it will be horrid due to time limitations.

 

Now lets say they win instead of losing should Joe get full rewards for 1 minutes work because someone else probably disconnected?

 

People could argue though that in that 1 minute Joe was amazing and scored 3 times because hes no ordinary Joe. He would be worthy of 100% rewards right? Well if he was so amazing then even his partial multplier would be decent because of his medals etc he earned. Maybe he wins a bunch of mvp votes.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

I still think they should allow you to chose by option to join warzones in progress or only new warzones.

 

GI Joe?

 

And I agree with your very last sentence for Rated games.

Edited March 19, 2012 by SageH

[Zaodon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

 

First sentence of your link:

 

"The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in two-player games such as chess."

 

So, back to my original question:

 

BIOWARE, please tell us how the Rating system will actually work.

[Zaodon]

Why was this thread moved to General Discussion? Its PTS (patch 1.2) specific.

 

Please move back to PTS Forum.

[cbowsin]

oh my, min/maxers use to take the time to reverse calculate how stuff actually works. Now people don't do that anymore with the 'Bioware, tell me how you application works!!?! Rawr" lol

[Onager]

First sentence of your link:

 

"The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in two-player games such as chess."

 

So, back to my original question:

 

BIOWARE, please tell us how the Rating system will actually work.

 

In the case of team play, each team is a 'player' for purposes of Elo ranking. Stop asking the community to break it down for you. If you can't read the Wikipedia article and figure out what it's about, why do you even care? That's like a preschooler spending hours and hours musing about the nature of black holes.

 

You're outta your element, Donny.

[AHChrist]

The griefing potential will be huge. I can log on my scrub level 50 and purposely lose a match when a certain guild is on my side or my friends are on the other side. Grab the huttball run to our side with my super force speed and throw it do the enemy. Its gonna be great. I think that will be more fun than trolling the forums about how good GW2 will be.

[Zaodon]

In the case of team play, each team is a 'player' for purposes of Elo ranking. Stop asking the community to break it down for you. If you can't read the Wikipedia article and figure out what it's about, why do you even care? That's like a preschooler spending hours and hours musing about the nature of black holes.

 

You're outta your element, Donny.

 

I queue with a premade team: Me, plus players A1 thru A7 today.

I queue with a premade team: Me, plus players B1 thru B7 tomorrow (7 diff people).

 

How is my team rating in any way consistent when its 7 different people?

 

It works in sports, etc. because the team is STATIC for the whole season. Imagine if, after EVERY SINGLE GAME, teams in sports changed 100% of its players?

 

Again, Unless your name is BIOWARE (odd name), or you are a BIOWARE employee, stop posting, this thread isn't for you, since none of you know how this will work.

[oPURT]

If you leave early it's counted as a loss.

 

At the very least. Personally I think it should be more severe. If it's not at least counted as a loss the drop rate on a losing team will be huge, thereby making this whole "rated" system completely useless.

[Onager]

I queue with a premade team: Me, plus players A1 thru A7 today.

I queue with a premade team: Me, plus players B1 thru B7 tomorrow (7 diff people).

 

How is my team rating in any way consistent when its 7 different people?

 

It works in sports, etc. because the team is STATIC for the whole season. Imagine if, after EVERY SINGLE GAME, teams in sports changed 100% of its players?

 

Again, Unless your name is BIOWARE (odd name), or you are a BIOWARE employee, stop posting, this thread isn't for you, since none of you know how this will work.

 

Yah, we do. Elo systems are used in many other places. What are you expecting, exactly? You expecting the designers to make an exception just for you to come and break this down into bite sized pieces for you and you alone to digest just for your own gratification?

 

Entitlement, much?

 

Your personal rating is equal to your highest rating in any rated team for that season.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Onager

[NoaFlux]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

 

If you played WoW Arena or SC2 ladder, it's like that. It functions as both a matchmaking system and a metric of your progress. Good team loses to a worse team, worse team gets a big jump in rating. Good team smashes a worse team, Good team only gains a couple points.

 

Overall, your rating will eventually even out to a relatively accurate approximation of how good your team actually is in the field, and match you against people that are within your general ballpark of skill.

 

Thanks for this! I had no idea it had nothing to do with video games ( i mean it does now). How would I have known to search outside of Bio Wares database? How would anyone know this who hasn't been playing mmos or chess? Bio Ware just doesn't seem to cater to new players. That's why they are struggling. I am confused about 85% of the time, and I slowly crawl up the knowledge ladder only to find new things I don't understand. lol.

 

So what i'm trying to say is THANK YOU!

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoaFlux