Leave the healers alone, they need encouragement.

[Aaoogaa]

That's what Story Mode is for.

 

Why should casuals want (or "need") to heal Nightmare modes?

 

Nightmare is supposed to be for people who put an unhealthy amount of time and effort into the game. It's not intended for people who play 3 hours a week.

 

Yes, and as such the majority of balance should take place around the casual level of game play. Currently for 1.2 ALL the balance is set around the raiding level of game play...it is bleeding over into casual game play and PVP. Rather than balance the classes around nightmare mode they should design the classes and then actually design nightmare mode around the ultimate capabilities of the classes.

[Dayfax]

Yes, and as such the majority of balance should take place around the casual level of game play. Currently for 1.2 ALL the balance is set around the raiding level of game play...it is bleeding over into casual game play and PVP. Rather than balance the classes around nightmare mode they should design the classes and then actually design nightmare mode around the ultimate capabilities of the classes.

 

It can't work that way, because in the hands of an experienced player, a class "balanced" around average play will turn into Godmode.

 

Don't know if you ever played WoW, but this was the ongoing issue with mages, rogues, and hunters. Those classes were balanced at a high level and situationally overpowered in casual play.

 

This is part of the reason why healers are getting nerfed across the board. There are people playing this game with 8 years or more of MMO experience. When they're maining a Sorc/Sage, the content is trivial & they can pull mediocre, inexperienced players through encounters.

[genericcc]

I agree 100%. The reason DPS'ers don't roll a healer is because they know it would be hard or at least a challenge. Besides, if DPS tried healing, they'd have a mental breakdown after being the one who is getting yelled at, and not the one doing the yelling.

Lol yeah healing is so hard.

Maybe if resource management was a bit harder or there were proactive elements to it instead of just reactive, but this is not the case. Not that DPS is hard either, because DPS can tunnel vision to their target and their own health bar, and the occasional cc to help out team members, though more likely they will save it to protect themselves or to use offensively. BUt for DPS if you lose you can say well clearly you weren't effective, you didn't get any kills/kbs, you chose the wrong targets.

 

Whereas for healer they can still say, oh look I healed, look at the numbers, when in reality they didn't prioritise the right targets for heals, they positioned themselves badly and spent 3/4 of the match healing themselves, they didn't pay attention to what was happening and tunnelled on the health bars when they should have been using cc, etc. A bad healer can go under the radar a lot more easily than a bad DPS, maybe that's why some people like it.

 

I actually think a tank requires most skill to play to full potential. You have to pretty much fulfill the role of a dps in addition to paying attention to everything & continually switching guard (which requires paying attention to what is happening unlike say healing because it is like a preheal) and using taunts whenever possible. And it's not like youre immortal or extremely harder to kill than other players, at least compared to other games I've played.

 

I think the healing change is bad if you don't factor in guard (altho scoundrels definitely needed to be on a similar level to sorcs) but if you factor in guard, yes a nerf is warranted. And for any healer who whines that they get shut down or killed by a single DPS player, um, it seems fair to me. 1 player = 1 player. If that DPS is attacking someone else you can (maybe too easily) heal through his damage and shut him down. 1 player's worth equals anothers. Oh but because I'm a healer I need more survivability because people always zerg me. So you think it would be fair if you could tank multiple people, longer than even a tank since heals are indefinite? You even have dps abilties you can use. Again, make friends with a tank, the sum is definitely greater than the parts in this game for healer/tank combo.

 

And one furhter thing, tho I've sung praises of tanks so much, I don't actually play one. Just want to comment that though I personally often MVP healers and see them get MVP votes how often do you see people vote for a tank. To be fair they get more medals than other people, but all the same. I often see idiot sorcerers who are standing there and not healing the guy who is guarding them, even though it might take quite a while for him to die (I imagine they don't get guarded again lol). I just don't think people realise if someone has guarded them or taunted their attacker(s) or cced (ok maybe the latter is more obvious). I guess a lot of people playing tank class, even if theyre specced into it don't seem to realise the utility of tehse abilities either. BUt like i said, it takes more skill than healing to play properly

[SpaniardInfinity]

Lol yeah healing is so hard.

 

Maybe if resource management was a bit harder or there were proactive elements to it instead of just reactive, but this is not the case. Not that DPS is hard either, because DPS can tunnel vision to their target and their own health bar, and the occasional cc to help out team members, though more likely they will save it to protect themselves or to use offensively. BUt for DPS if you lose you can say well clearly you weren't effective, you didn't get any kills/kbs, you chose the wrong targets.

 

This is just arguing a preception, but I think you just explained why healers (including myself) see DPS specifically as the bane of our existences. Why? Because as you admit, DPS tend to be more lone-wolf than healers who rely on teammates. This is obviously not true for all DPS, but since their mistakes show through the most, it is easiest to scapegoat them. Does it make it right? Absolutely not. But DPS never cease to amaze me, and I like to think healers keep them around to keep their job entertaining (my fellow healer in my guild likes to call it "Hate the Healer Night").

 

Whereas for healer they can still say, oh look I healed, look at the numbers, when in reality they didn't prioritise the right targets for heals, they positioned themselves badly and spent 3/4 of the match healing themselves, they didn't pay attention to what was happening and tunnelled on the health bars when they should have been using cc, etc. A bad healer can go under the radar a lot more easily than a bad DPS, maybe that's why some people like it.

 

I do agree that the way healing is tracked on the scoreboard needs work. When they gave us credit for kills of teammates I laughed, because - at least for a pure healer like myself - I could care less how many kills I get. If I wanted kills, I'd play a DPS or even a tank, or go play another game (BF3 Shotgun Surgery Medic here). I much rather see how many lives I saved, how many deaths I allowed, and/or how much healing I did on someone with let's say less than 25% of their HP remaining.

 

As for how you look at a healer, I could say the exact same thing for a DPS. There is some truth to a bad healer staying under the radar longer since we're at the very least trying to save you even if we couldn't. Like I said, there is a key stat missing from healing that would make this clear: deaths allowed. Bad healers, for whatever reason, will not keep people - including themselves - up long enough for their team to stand a chance. Good ones will, or good ones will allow some deaths here or there to save a key target.

 

I think the healing change is bad if you don't factor in guard (altho scoundrels definitely needed to be on a similar level to sorcs) but if you factor in guard, yes a nerf is warranted. And for any healer who whines that they get shut down or killed by a single DPS player, um, it seems fair to me. 1 player = 1 player. If that DPS is attacking someone else you can (maybe too easily) heal through his damage and shut him down. 1 player's worth equals anothers. Oh but because I'm a healer I need more survivability because people always zerg me. So you think it would be fair if you could tank multiple people, longer than even a tank since heals are indefinite? You even have dps abilties you can use. Again, make friends with a tank, the sum is definitely greater than the parts in this game for healer/tank combo.

 

This is a matter of debate that could go either way: who should win a 1v1 between a healer and a DPS? I'm in the camp that says it should be a draw (both players alive but effectively useless to the team). It doesn't make sense to me that this should be Rock, Paper Scissors: In Space with Lightning where a DPS can just look at a healer and they die.

 

Pure healers should be able to keep a pure DPS off our back on two conditions: 1) we are only healing ourselves and 2) the damage we deal is utterly insignificant v. yours. And for the most part, that is the case for pure healers. No, we're not dead, but we aren't healing anyone else either.

 

The ONLY time I can kill a DPS solo is if there is a massive gear difference. That is how it should be. I don't see many cases where healers are regularly killing DPS solo without such a gear difference, but if this is a widespread problem, nerf the hybrids (I won't mind as a pure healer).

 

And one furhter thing, tho I've sung praises of tanks so much, I don't actually play one. Just want to comment that though I personally often MVP healers and see them get MVP votes how often do you see people vote for a tank. To be fair they get more medals than other people, but all the same. I often see idiot sorcerers who are standing there and not healing the guy who is guarding them, even though it might take quite a while for him to die (I imagine they don't get guarded again lol). I just don't think people realise if someone has guarded them or taunted their attacker(s) or cced (ok maybe the latter is more obvious). I guess a lot of people playing tank class, even if theyre specced into it don't seem to realise the utility of tehse abilities either. BUt like i said, it takes more skill than healing to play properly

 

As a healer, my MVP always goes to my guard. Everytime. While the OP claims healing is thankless, I must agree with you: tanking is the true thankless job. In my experience - and I am new to MMOs - you see way more people say "nice healing" than "nice tanking". I am yet to see one non-healer thank their tank. Why? Because no one appreciates a good tank more than their healer.

 

So thank you tanks, I <3 you. Now go over there and roll in that puddle of Sith, would ya?

[Mystys]

Listen pal I'm expressing my feelings on the matter and if your ok with the nerf let me tell you something. You sure wont be when no one is healing anymore.

 

Also to clear things up I use all 3 of my healers for everything. Not just the ones that is perceived "most powerful" If you ask if I have a favorite probably my merc but that being said I dislike pvp so I don't play him much and I feel hes crap at pve ....

 

As for operatives I don't feel the increase is justified as it has a cool down increase that will throw my rotations off and prove to be more of a burden than a help.

 

 

But this being said it looks like you have a pretty big mouth on you, so tell us nothings wrong and to stop QQ'ing. To be honest I'm not sure why I'm even responding to your moronic statements.... I have gone this far though so why not.

 

Your operatives "rotation"?? you serious? You have a healing "rotation"? Thank you for clarifying how bad you are at healing. If you want me to explain why, i will, but im just gonna leave it at that.

[Padkhar]

I do agree that the way healing is tracked on the scoreboard needs work. When they gave us credit for kills of teammates I laughed, because - at least for a pure healer like myself - I could care less how many kills I get. If I wanted kills, I'd play a DPS or even a tank, or go play another game (BF3 Shotgun Surgery Medic here). I much rather see how many lives I saved, how many deaths I allowed, and/or how much healing I did on someone with let's say less than 25% of their HP remaining. ..... [snip]

 

 

So thank you tanks, I <3 you. Now go over there and roll in that puddle of Sith, would ya?

 

It is hard to truly track a healer's real effectiveness. As you say, what we want is preventable deaths avoided, but not all preventable deaths are equal in terms of strategy. Maybe I let 3 people die so I can heal the ball carrier--or maybe I do this so I can get an attack off on someone tapping a door. Or maybe the person I 'Let" die was standing in area damage, and I had to triage because I only have so many resources available to me at any time. As a Scoundrel, I actually heal people below 25% a lot, since I have an ability that is instant and free if the target is below 30%. Are you suggesting that it is always pointless to heal targets this low, or always a sign you are helping "avoid" death in such cases? It is neither. Some of the time I can keep someone up long enough for them to kill the thing attacking them, cross the goal line, or escape, or even, receive a larger heal from another player winding up a big heal--whatever it is, other times, that low health target just takes exactly one GCD longer to die and does nothing in that time.

 

I do appreciate tanks, and agree it is often not said enough--but I also appreciate good DPS and that is not said enough. DPS who know how to pick the most effective target to kill, to use their defensive abilities. DPS who do not expect me to always be perfect, becasue they realize, they too make mistakes.

 

Scoreboards can undercut good team play, but then again, some people are more into competitive play than cooperative, so they want to see that they 'beat" someone on something and would be unhappy without a nice big scoreboard to point out how much better they are than everyone else.

[Adellion]

Your operatives "rotation"?? you serious? You have a healing "rotation"? Thank you for clarifying how bad you are at healing. If you want me to explain why, i will, but im just gonna leave it at that.

 

Ok, I want to just a take a moment to enjoy this quote and laugh heartily in agreement over it. Thanks.

 

P.S. Can someone provide a link to where they specify in its entirety, the healing nerfs (soz, you'll have to forgive a forum newb and an MMO newb while you're at it)...

[RuQu]

Ok, I want to just a take a moment to enjoy this quote and laugh heartily in agreement over it. Thanks.

 

P.S. Can someone provide a link to where they specify in its entirety, the healing nerfs (soz, you'll have to forgive a forum newb and an MMO newb while you're at it)...

 

It's less funny when you realize that Operatives really do have a rotation.

 

They should, unless someone will die, be refreshing Kolto Probe every ~15s. If they let it fall it takes 30 Energy to get their stacks back instead of 15.

 

Other than that, they must cast Kolto Injection before Surgical Probe. KI->SP->Refresh KP if needed -> Refresh Stim Boost if needed -> Repeat.

 

That's it. It isn't chain casted like a DPS rotation, it is triaged, but it is pretty fixed.

 

It seems funny to say "healer rotation" because everyone is used to games with interesting healer designs. It was assumed by many of us that the simplicity and tight enrage timers meant that the healers were supposed to be doing DPS as well (ie Combat Medic). These nerfs suggest that was not the case.

 

As for a list of the nerfs, the Official list of changes can be found on the PTS Patch Notes page, here.

 

Since you say you are new to this, feel free to ask if you want help interpreting any of the changes and their impact on healer gameplay.

[hrelas]

It's less funny when you realize that Operatives really do have a rotation.

 

They should, unless someone will die, be refreshing Kolto Probe every ~15s. If they let it fall it takes 30 Energy to get their stacks back instead of 15.

 

Other than that, they must cast Kolto Injection before Surgical Probe. KI->SP->Refresh KP if needed -> Refresh Stim Boost if needed -> Repeat.

 

That's it. It isn't chain casted like a DPS rotation, it is triaged, but it is pretty fixed.

 

It seems funny to say "healer rotation" because everyone is used to games with interesting healer designs. It was assumed by many of us that the simplicity and tight enrage timers meant that the healers were supposed to be doing DPS as well (ie Combat Medic). These nerfs suggest that was not the case.

 

As for a list of the nerfs, the Official list of changes can be found on the PTS Patch Notes page, here.

 

Since you say you are new to this, feel free to ask if you want help interpreting any of the changes and their impact on healer gameplay.

 

The operative healing rotation I prefer is in fact KInj -> Kinf -> DS/(KP/DS) since SP is **** and not worth using unless someone needs an instant heal. Kinf with the set bonus is worth it, it crits more often than not making it worth the TA which only other purpose most of the time is to cast SP, and any time you would cast SP you regain TA, unless you can take a break and use SP for multi-target healing.

[sang]

The operative healing rotation I prefer is in fact KInj -> Kinf -> DS/(KP/DS) since SP is **** and not worth using unless someone needs an instant heal. Kinf with the set bonus is worth it, it crits more often than not making it worth the TA which only other purpose most of the time is to cast SP, and any time you would cast SP you regain TA, unless you can take a break and use SP for multi-target healing.

 

A rotation like that increases single target throughput, but it is not energy neutral. KInj + Kinf alone burns 45 energy. Sure, you can get away with it for a little while, but you will start seeing more DS in that rotation as time goes by. As a whole, from this post it seems like you do not have a very good grasp on the core mechanics of operative healing. SP is a great heal, arguably our best. Furthermore, your statement "any time you would cast SP you regain TA" is incorrect. You only regain TA from SP when the target is below 30% health.

[Daecollo]

Operative healers from my experience have a very easy time healing, its way easier then merc/commando, I overheal WAY to much on them.

[sfdeg]

i cba to read every post but i agree wholeheartedly with the opening post, i know for a fact the imps on my server r going down from 5 healers to 2 as 3 sorcs r either quitting or re rolling. its rsilly how much damage healers take compared to other classes in pvp. healing through 4 or 5 reps is impossible as it is but with 1.2 im dead as soon as they look at me. to all healers out there your the best try to stick with it and hope bw fixes the mess they r making with nerfing us

[Yakito]

Beautiful post.

It is true that most people that are enjoying 1.2 are NOT healers. To us this is a really bad update, a horrible one. I simply cannot enjoy the legacy, the Rakghouls, the new Warzones or the Ops after being nerfed so badly. It's infuriating, it's beyond my understand why somebody would make a decision to nerf us like this to balance the game.

Make it more challenging?! Was somebody doing this while being half conscious? Or perhaps drugged to hell?

 

IF you want to make it more challenging, buff the damn bosses. I don't know. Leave my healing alone. no no! wait! I left the healing instead, and am leaving the game. I don't believe it will change for any better any longer. It only keeps getting worse to me.

[ShadowAxx]

I'd say it official, and there was a reason BW did not allow more players to copy their lvl 50 healers to PTS.

 

Healing has taken a huge step backwards in PvE with the clear intention to reduce success rates. BW has effectively reduced the chance of groups succeeding during HM & NMM missions.

 

Had BW allowed more players to copy their lvl 50 toons to PTS, we would have had over whelming feedback that proposed nerfs to healers would dramatically impact PvE play.

 

I'd say in most situations where a failure/wipe due to dead group members is all but assured, adding a 3rd healer helps, but then you can't get enough DPS on a boss before the rage timer trips.

 

End result:

 

- more $$$ spent on repairs

- less LOOT paid out

- fewer players geared to be able properly play missions

- longer delays for groups to progress to be able to challenge the new missions

- the stress from healers being blamed for mission failure is causing healers to respec DPS

 

Nice work BioWare. Tip of the Hat, Wag of the Finger.

Edited April 16, 2012 by ShadowAxx