1.2 Hard Mode loot. Why raid when you can just run dailies?

[dupela]

for the challenge perhaps? oh wait gamers dont like challenge now it's all about the "look what i have and you don't" loot ...

[Brimmer]

The best gear should come from solo/hardmode Flashpoints/raid.

 

Doing one or two of the three shouldn't lock you out from the best gear. All three routes shoulds get the same gear, but the amount of comms required should differ.

 

Raiding should be the most dofficult way to gain gear, since it is ment to be a challlenge; yet the raids are easy and it's by far the "easy" route to gear up.

 

So why is bioware giving the best gear to the easy mode content.

 

Hard mode and solo is a lot harder than raiding. Solo takes many many many many dailies for any reward. While Flashpoints take a huge amount of runs just to get a single piece of gear, often the gear that will drop in flashpoints will be for a class that isnt even with the group. Like take 2 consulars and 2 knights yet trooper gear drops.

 

Yet you go raiding and a **** ton of loot drops.

[Claudistine]

No its not. You dont have anyone else that could keep you from your gear. A Raider can. So no you did not earn it. You are being handed it to you.

 

Funny to see how you keep ignoring people that give you constructive feedback, instead you just keep repeating yourself. Goodluck trying to convince everyone.

[Brimmer]

Casual Solo guy says, "SWTOR shouldnt be about gear but the fun!!!"

 

Casual solo guy says, "I want the best gear too. Why does he get better gear than me when we all pay the same sub fee?!"

Gotta love the hypocrisy from the CasuLoLs

 

That has nothing to do with casual, that comes from any player who isn't horrible at multiplayer games. A normal / good player doesn't want to grind for week to get on even grounds with their friends/foes.

 

I think it's kinda sad you cant figure out that both the red and green text are fair statements. The only "casuals" are raiders. Raiders do only a small percernt of the game's content, yet get rewarded with all the best items.

[Nuberoja]

I did not read the full post so this may be said before but looks like corelia quest dont give black hole commendations, there is only 1 weekly quest there that give you 6. Cant confirm because Im not in the PTS with a high level character.

 

About casual/hardcore gear, I hava several friends that may be considered casual, I have been casual in a game once and never saw them worried about not able to access raid gear, they play their class, enjoy the game and when they get tired, start an alt. They dont get mad beacause raiders have better gear.

 

The players that usually complain because cant access to raid gear are pvp hardcore players that are not able to raid beacause lack of social skills or just because they "need tactics and coordination to play PVE".

 

I dont say every PVP player shows this behavior, there are lots of good PVP guilds and players, but sadly, PVP community is full of this "other" kind of players, and they create a lot of noise in the forums for sure.

 

So stop saying this is a discusion between casual/hardcore, because most casuals dont even visit forums and rarelly post.

[Raeln]

Sorry but no, if you do not raid you do not need raid gear. Which is what many other raiders have said. Give them Solo gear end of story.

 

It's not the end of the story.

 

There is a very valid reason for allowing the general playerbase to acquire end-game gear.

[Raeln]

No Raiders need the gear, that is how DPS get their DPS up to para to down a boss, thats how tanks get enough stats to keep alive from the damage incoming from the boss, and healers need to increase their healing output. Solo Players need None of this. There is no way to make a Solo mob fight as complex as a Raid boss fight which take 8/16 people into account. NEVER will happen. Solo Players are making their choice by not wanting to do the gear, they are not being told they can not so Tough **** they do not have a right to the gear. Its Freedom of choice for them not to do it so they are choosing not to go for the gear.

 

I disagree.

 

The smaller the group size, the more challenging the content can be made. The more individual class abilities come into play. Abilities like CC, slows, and kiting are very difficult to represent in raiding because of how powerful CC is. In small group content though, CC can be a powerful and useful too.

 

My point is that raiding typically boils down a character to the lowest amount of skills required. If an ability is not included in the optimal DPS rotation or priority, then it is discarded and considered a waste - even if it uses no resources other than a global cooldown. This is not so for solo/small group gameplay.

 

Look, I get it - you will never believe anything other than raiders are the end-all, be-all of end-game. Sorry you are so close minded but raiding will not continue to be the pinnacle of PvE end-game. With every expansion and every new MMO released, raiding attracts less of the playerbase. Already, the raiders are the most fickle players playing the game. They are upset if it's "too easy", even though some of the largest voices have yet to complete a hardmode. They are upset if it's, "too hard". They are upset if anyone else gets gear - even months after them when new content is released.

 

This type of mindset will inevitably, eventually murder its own through attrition and raiding will die.

[Raeln]

Yes it does. We dont raid for just the challenge. We raid to become better. Solo players need to stop with the EPEEN Envy because they have not earned the gear, they feel they need to be handed the gear. If they want the gear go raid for it. quit complaining.

 

If anything, a player that has done 1 month of dailies has done more gaming to earn that gear than the raider who won it on the first drop - or in our case, the smuggler that won 4 rakata drops on our first hardmode night.

[Raeln]

Raiding is not hard at all in this game. A lot of people do full clears of normal mode raids, soon to be called story mode. There is a difference between Casual players and people wanting the gear handed to them. Casual players just need to find a guild that fits their needs, be on time for raids and raid. Its not hard to raid with needing 8 people. If you are finding it a hard time its because the guild is too small for raiding.

 

Have you cleared nightmare mode EV and KP yet?

[Raeln]

I like challenge dont get me wrong but I also do it for the gear. To better the character I play in group content. If the gear is given away with dailies, or sold on the GTN why would I spend any time raiding when 1 or 2 people screwing up can cost us the boss fight? Soloing can not replicate at all another player making a mistake in a raid. This is what solo players can not and never will understand.

 

Maybe you would spend time raiding at that point because you want to play with your friends? of course, I'm assuming that you have a group of good online friends to play with though.

 

I can tell you that my ops group is a blast to hang out with. It's like 4 hours of comedy central every week.

[Hxxr]

It's not the end of the story.

 

There is a very valid reason for allowing the general playerbase to acquire end-game gear.

 

Actually no, there's none.

 

Gear is not what a good raider aims for. It's means to an end: Beating the content - and the content after that.

 

If you don't raid nightmare (= not want to beat the entire content) you don't need to keep up with those that do gear wise.

 

For example ... someone who understands MMO raiding also understands that loot distribution is meaningless as long as someone needs whatever the boss dropped - it's overall damage/healing/tank durabilty that matters, not personal dps or whatever and no matter who gets the Q61 weapon upgrade first, raid dps go up. That's the thing with items ... if you're hardcore you don't care, it's not the items you want, but you need them.

 

Casual seems to be the other way around, looking at this thread.

[Raeln]

no its simple I dont want raid gear given out for not playing the content. Its not that hard to understand.

 

Solo gear with presence is not a problem

 

I don't have a problem with that - but, if dailies are going to award presence gear, then raid gear needs to be limited too. I'd say implementing a mechanic where the stats and set bonuses on raid gear were only granted while inside a raid instance would work quite nicely to accomplish that.

 

Oh wait, you thought you because you was a raider that you were beyond restrictions? Why should you be able to fly through dailies (the solo game) faster because you played in a raid group last week?

[Raeln]

Casual Solo guy says, "SWTOR shouldnt be about gear but the fun!!!"

 

Casual solo guy says, "I want the best gear too. Why does he get better gear than me when we all pay the same sub fee?!"

 

Gotta love the hypocrisy from the CasuLoLs

 

There is no hypocrisy.

 

This is a game built around gear, just like WoW. Better gear makes everything better, except crew missions and speeder times. The only stat on raid gear that solo'ers gain little from is accuracy.

 

As long as raid gear is considered the absolute best in game, this issue is going to continue to go on and on. The issue being that future solo content has to be balanced around any raid gear awarded in the past. That is something that some of you pro-raid gear only guys are failing to examine.

 

Solo'ers will unsub real fast when 1.4's solo content requires T6 gear to do and the best they can get is T3 after 6 months of grinding. Yep - enjoy those ghost town servers because there are far more people doing dailies than there are raiding every week.

[Ellnassil]

If anything, a player that has done 1 month of dailies has done more gaming to earn that gear than the raider who won it on the first drop - or in our case, the smuggler that won 4 rakata drops on our first hardmode night.

 

If you want Daily´s or any Single Player Content that should provide Raid Level gear...... you had to make that Content Harder. Just like Hunters Epic Quest in WoW or something, because i can´t see any reason why somone needs High End Raiding Gear when he/she only grind mindless Daily Quests which are designed for fresh 50´s with Green Gear or some kind of that.

 

If you want Raiding Gear, Raid. If you want PvP gear, just kick asses. If you want Social Gear, just Socialice.......

 

I hate that mimimi i play and i want the same as the Big Boys. Come back to the Ground from your World of Dreams and realize that stupid mindless Daily´s are not the right Content to earn Gear on the same Level as in Operations or Rated Battlegrounds because you did nothing but hump around over easy Content.

[Koynov]

Let's quit then. MMO don't need from solo players, there are enough single player games. I am happy that Guild Wars 2 will be only team game where to play solo mean instant death:cool:

[Raeln]

Actually no, there's none.

 

Yes there is.

 

Gear is not what a good raider aims for. It's means to an end: Beating the content - and the content after that.

 

No, it's not what they should aim for - yet, it's still a requirement for progression.

 

If you don't raid nightmare (= not want to beat the entire content) you don't need to keep up with those that do gear wise.

 

You won't beat hardmode enrage timers wearing quest blues.

 

For example ... someone who understands MMO raiding also understands that loot distribution is meaningless as long as someone needs whatever the boss dropped - it's overall damage/healing/tank durabilty that matters, not personal dps or whatever and no matter who gets the Q61 weapon upgrade first, raid dps go up. That's the thing with items ... if you're hardcore you don't care, it's not the items you want, but you need them.

 

Too bad loot distribution is still largely RNG. We watched as half our Rakata drops last night were wasted because the classes they dropped for already had them. Too bad there isn't a mechanism in game where those that received nothing from the raid could supplement their currency totals via dailies during the week and purchase what they need so we weren't limited for next week's raid.

 

Casual seems to be the other way around, looking at this thread.

 

No, the "casual", as you want to derogatorily call out simply wants to see their character grow in power after an investment of time. A raider is far likely to be ready to vendor their raid gear before the solo player completes their set through dailies but both players should be able to acquire the same gear.

[Nuberoja]

1) What motivates a player to play? social, chalenges and improvement of his character, if we left social aspect out of game as is not related to this thread, as soon as you reach 50, most the time only gear will improve ur character.

 

2) The harder the chanleng, the better the reward, if you agree on this, then this is over, harder chanlenge is raiding, demands more coordination, number of players, time, etc. Solo content maybe dificult but never near the level of a raid, (susposing you dont do solo content in groups to make it even more easy).

 

3) Lets asume you dont agree on the last sentence, and easy content will give the best rewards, then developers should stop working on hard content as very low number of players would do it, they need to use all their time to create the easy content fast enough, everything will become easy, which will follow to fast, as easy and long becomes boring prety fast.

 

So in no time ereveryone will have the same rewards, easy and fast obtained and looking for something else to do, developers cant create content at such a fast rate, so we all left the game because there is nothing to do.

 

End of history.

[Raeln]

If you want Daily´s or any Single Player Content that should provide Raid Level gear...... you had to make that Content Harder. Just like Hunters Epic Quest in WoW or something, because i can´t see any reason why somone needs High End Raiding Gear when he/she only grind mindless Daily Quests which are designed for fresh 50´s with Green Gear or some kind of that.

 

You are aware that WoW's Hunter Epic quest was a raid quest, right? You had to have raid drops to do that quest and even then, it was so hard that many hunters HIRED other hunters to do it for them.

 

If you want Raiding Gear, Raid. If you want PvP gear, just kick asses. If you want Social Gear, just Socialice.......

 

I do raid.

 

Unfortunately, you still have to run Flashpoints to earn Social points. One would think roleplaying in some form or fashion would award social points somehow - or even killing bosses in a raid group.

 

I hate that mimimi i play and i want the same as the Big Boys. Come back to the Ground from your World of Dreams and realize that stupid mindless Daily´s are not the right Content to earn Gear on the same Level as in Operations or Rated Battlegrounds because you did nothing but hump around over easy Content.

 

I am one of the "big boys". My ops group is doing hardmodes right now - but I'm not fool enough to ignore that if we lose one of our starters and have to replace them, then we are likely going to have to drop back to normal mode to gear them up.

 

Do you realize just how fun that really is? to have to go back to normal mode to gear up a new guy because they are not able to get adequate gear through dailies?

 

Yes, GENUINE raiders should want dailies to award gear up to at least the lesser Tier so they have a larger platform to recruit from - if you argue against this, then I have to question if you have really ever been involved with raid leadership.

 

Let me boil it down a bit more:

"You no beat da 'rage timerz in hardmodez when teh new pepz got crap gearz."

[Ellnassil]

You are aware that WoW's Hunter Epic quest was a raid quest, right? You had to have raid drops to do that quest and even then, it was so hard that many hunters HIRED other hunters to do it for them.

 

 

And what is wrong with that? If you want Endgame Gear, just play the Endgame not the Lazy Mindless Grind Quests.

 

 

I am one of the "big boys". My ops group is doing hardmodes right now - but I'm not fool enough to ignore that if we lose one of our starters and have to replace them, then we are likely going to have to drop back to normal mode to gear them up.

 

Do you realize just how fun that really is? to have to go back to normal mode to gear up a new guy because they are not able to get adequate gear through dailies?

 

Yes, GENUINE raiders should want dailies to award gear up to at least the lesser Tier so they have a larger platform to recruit from - if you argue against this, then I have to question if you have really ever been involved with raid leadership.

 

Let me boil it down a bit more:

"You no beat da 'rage timerz in hardmodez when teh new pepz got crap gearz."

 

If you loose just one Member in the Raid and have to put in a new one without gear...... yeah i cant find any Reason why to play Normal mode. Just kick the Green Guy into Nightmare and bring him instant from Green to Rakata.

 

Gear is never the Problem when hire new Raidmembers. If they are minded to be Progressplayers then it doesnt matters what gear they have.

 

If we were in TBC where Attunements for Raids was a realy f...... ****, i whould go along with you a little bit. But we are not longer in TBC we are here in SWTOR.

 

The Main Problem is, if you provide the Last Tier Gear for nothing just Daily´s no one will play that Content and we got the same Content Skipping **** as in WoW

[Raeln]

And what is wrong with that? If you want Endgame Gear, just play the Endgame not the Lazy Mindless Grind Quests.

 

 

 

If you loose just one Member in the Raid and have to put in a new one without gear...... yeah i cant find any Reason why to play Normal mode. Just kick the Green Guy into Nightmare and bring him instant from Green to Rakata.

 

Gear is never the Problem when hire new Raidmembers. If they are minded to be Progressplayers then it doesnt matters what gear they have.

 

If we were in TBC where Attunements for Raids was a realy f...... ****, i whould go along with you a little bit. But we are not longer in TBC we are here in SWTOR.

 

The Main Problem is, if you provide the Last Tier Gear for nothing just Daily´s no one will play that Content and we got the same Content Skipping **** as in WoW

 

Ever heard of enrage timers?

[Cichard]

You are aware that WoW's Hunter Epic quest was a raid quest, right? You had to have raid drops to do that quest and even then, it was so hard that many hunters HIRED other hunters to do it for them.

 

 

 

I do raid.

 

Unfortunately, you still have to run Flashpoints to earn Social points. One would think roleplaying in some form or fashion would award social points somehow - or even killing bosses in a raid group.

 

 

 

I am one of the "big boys". My ops group is doing hardmodes right now - but I'm not fool enough to ignore that if we lose one of our starters and have to replace them, then we are likely going to have to drop back to normal mode to gear them up.

 

Do you realize just how fun that really is? to have to go back to normal mode to gear up a new guy because they are not able to get adequate gear through dailies?

 

Yes, GENUINE raiders should want dailies to award gear up to at least the lesser Tier so they have a larger platform to recruit from - if you argue against this, then I have to question if you have really ever been involved with raid leadership.

 

Let me boil it down a bit more:

"You no beat da 'rage timerz in hardmodez when teh new pepz got crap gearz."

 

First off you do not have to go back to Normal Mode to gear up a new person. that person needs to RUN HM FLASH POINTS on their spare time and Get their Tionese/Columi Gear and be ready to raid Just in case someone misses or leaves. Its called being Raid ready. IF you are a raiding guild, People should be raid ready to be in your guild. and you can be raid ready for HM raids by just doing HM flash points. I dinged 50 yesterday on an alt I do 1 day let me repeat 1 day of HMS. I picked up the daily and weekly, I did every HM, Walked away with 3 pieces of columi gear and bought 2 pieces of tionese gear. Boght implants and ear off the GTN. Magicaly i am able to do HM raids now...... Its not hard to get ready for raids.

[TaanDarkri]

Ever heard of enrage timers?

 

i agree with Hxxr there is not and me i just go the way its going and not care about anything else.

[Phasend]

If you loose just one Member in the Raid and have to put in a new one without gear...... yeah i cant find any Reason why to play Normal mode. Just kick the Green Guy into Nightmare and bring him instant from Green to Rakata.

 

If we were in TBC where Attunements for Raids was a realy f...... ****, i whould go along with you a little bit. But we are not longer in TBC we are here in SWTOR

The first point what if and a big what if they made 1.2 nightmare modes really require hardmode loot to do making them you know difficult.

 

Second point tbc attunements please tell me you do not mean The Burning Crusade yes some where time consuming hard nope try vanilla wow attunement quests. Even more of a punch in the gut try original eq some of them where just downright wrong

 

They are giving out nightmare mode raid gear this time so hardmode will not be the best so what is the huge deal?

[Raeln]

First off you do not have to go back to Normal Mode to gear up a new person. that person needs to RUN HM FLASH POINTS on their spare time and Get their Tionese/Columi Gear and be ready to raid Just in case someone misses or leaves. Its called being Raid ready. IF you are a raiding guild, People should be raid ready to be in your guild. and you can be raid ready for HM raids by just doing HM flash points. I dinged 50 yesterday on an alt I do 1 day let me repeat 1 day of HMS. I picked up the daily and weekly, I did every HM, Walked away with 3 pieces of columi gear and bought 2 pieces of tionese gear. Boght implants and ear off the GTN. Magicaly i am able to do HM raids now...... Its not hard to get ready for raids.

 

Exceptions are not the rule.

 

Also, Bioware is making a big deal about making hardmode/nightmare modes more difficult. Just how difficult they are remains to be seen but if they are truly trying to Cataclysm their raids up in difficulty, then no - someone wearing hardmode Flashpoint gear is not going to get traction in Explosive conflict hardmode or nightmare mode.

 

Also - I haven't seen a lot of hunger to run hardmode flashpoints in general, especially not in my guild during primetime.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Raeln

[IGLATUUN]

apologize in advance if this is a reiterated question, as I have only read about half of the 36 pages in this thread.

 

has it been confirmed that ALL GEAR PIECES are available via Corellia dailies? or is it like belsavis/ilum dailie comms here only implants/ear pieces are available (or some other variation of a few pieces)?

 

next point: my understanding is you can get, what, 6 Corellia comms if you complete every daily, each week? How much does each tier 2 piece cost? What its going to take, a month of daily dailies? 6 monoths? to gear up?

 

I just levelled an alt to 50 in 2 weeks, and one week later I am almost full columi. give me another two weeks ill be more than half rakata. Our guild is doing HM ops. my point being that even if tis been confirmed all dailies can be had in corellia (weapons too!?) then it would take more time to get geared in corellia than it would to level a character to 50, participate in a couple ops per week, to get fully geared.