Ekorin Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Will vigliance be viable for rated WZ? Cause according to the patch notes, focus seems more viable like it stands now. Whats your thoughts on it? This is more if its worth going vig over focus in 1.2! /discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Xen strike is very good now. Master strike does more damage also (T1 Focus). You get an stun now, an extra way to apply sunder strike for plasma brand. Aren't punished as badly for switching to soresu. Focus defense sounds good with the buff Commanding Awe will give, but until we see the numbers its difficult to make judgement. With focus's force sweep combos having a 3 sec longer gap in between, Vigilance is definitely a viable alternative. In fact, I'm going to go with, yes Vigilance will be the superior RWZ spec. Edited March 17, 2012 by VertisReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Something else to think about is the fact that Dispatch now becomes available at 30% or less. Which is pretty awesome. Now our critical hit dispatch is available earlier so it makes it actually matter quite a great deal more. So we won't be losing as much damage from over killing someone. It's frustrating to me when I dispatch someone and it does 4 - 5k damage but I only get credit for the 3k hit points that they actually had left. So our auto-crit dispatch will be much more important in after the patch. Also, I see a lot of people taking Master Focus from the Focus tree and using that in conjunction with Zen Strike so that we can do a super damage dealing master strike. That's kind of the way I wanna go but I need to see the skill tree as a whole first. All in all I definitely think the skill tree got a huge buff at the end of the day. It will be much better than it was but I certainly wouldn't say it was better than focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapuchinSeven Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Actually Marqhill that's a good point about Dispatch I'd not thought of that in Vig with the crit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herew Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Something else to think about is the fact that Dispatch now becomes available at 30% or less. Which is pretty awesome. Now our critical hit dispatch is available earlier so it makes it actually matter quite a great deal more. So we won't be losing as much damage from over killing someone. It's frustrating to me when I dispatch someone and it does 4 - 5k damage but I only get credit for the 3k hit points that they actually had left. So our auto-crit dispatch will be much more important in after the patch. This is the main reason why I'd even consider Vigi in PvP. Dispatch guaranteed crit at 30% is huge. This + how well focused defense works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I've actually been using Vigilance in PvP for quite some time and frankly I love it. Every time I swing my light saber I'm hitting someone for 3k+ damage. As long as you've geared correctly you hit extremely hard with every single attack. Also, the durability and the CC immunity for 4 seconds after each time you force leap actually works out really really well. in PvP. Other classes will throw out more damage than me in some war zones, but it's very rare that people will have more kills/killing blows than me in war zones. I personally feel like knocking people out of a game for a significant period of time it's whats most important in this build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I'm skeptical. I've pvp'd exclusively since early access and vigilance has never impressed except for the occasional hutball match. Now I've leveled my own guard, vig hits like a wet noodle compared to the other classes/spec I have access to. I want it to work. But unless these "under the hood" changes produce a miracle, I will not be looking at a guardian to fill a spot on my team. Not even my own. And unfortunately, that's the spot light rated WZ will cast on pvp balance moving forward. Edited March 19, 2012 by Sowwy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiranK Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Given that warzones are dominated by premade Tank/Healer heavy teams, I'd say no. Vigilance isn't the greatest PvP spec in the world. Until they add arenas, tank/healer heavy teams are always going to come out on top in objective based PvP. It's easy to hold an objective when you simply never die, even if you don't kill your opponents. Defensive set ups > offensive ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culhaven Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Given that warzones are dominated by premade Tank/Healer heavy teams, I'd say no. Vigilance isn't the greatest PvP spec in the world. Until they add arenas, tank/healer heavy teams are always going to come out on top in objective based PvP. It's easy to hold an objective when you simply never die, even if you don't kill your opponents. Defensive set ups > offensive ones. In 1.2, you will see a lot more Valiance spec players running around in Soresu form because the change to Single Saber Mastery. Soresu + Focused Defense + the new Commanding Awe will be more than enough tank ability to guard an objective with a healer. 10% passive damage reduction (Soresu + Commanding Awe) and an additional 15% damage reduction on demand (Focused Defense + Command Awe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidJustice Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I've actually been using Vigilance in PvP for quite some time and frankly I love it. Every time I swing my light saber I'm hitting someone for 3k+ damage. I call Shenanigans! 2k maybe in modded BM... 3k... every swing... nah... avg swing 2k in BM played perfect... avg... youtube + gear + spec plx... thx... (cause if you are serious... I need to get YOUR gear and play YOUR spec) Edited March 19, 2012 by VoidJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 vigilance #1 huttbull trolol spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culhaven Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 vigilance #1 huttbull trolol spec. What makes vigilance better at huttball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What makes vigilance better at huttball? Because of unremitting and protector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've actually been using Vigilance in PvP for quite some time and frankly I love it. Every time I swing my light saber I'm hitting someone for 3k+ damage. As long as you've geared correctly you hit extremely hard with every single attack. Also, the durability and the CC immunity for 4 seconds after each time you force leap actually works out really really well. in PvP. Other classes will throw out more damage than me in some war zones, but it's very rare that people will have more kills/killing blows than me in war zones. I personally feel like knocking people out of a game for a significant period of time it's whats most important in this build. 3k damage every hit? No you don't. Unless 100% of your targets fresh level 50s in greens light armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 3k damage every hit? No you don't. Unless 100% of your targets fresh level 50s in greens light armor. I'm sure you'd be willing to pardon the expression of "every hit." What I meant to illustrate was that every major hit of may main damage rotation will hit a target for 3k damage on average, as long as the target is anything but a tank spec'ed character. I'm talking about Plasma Brand (1.5k initial hit on average plus the 1.5k elemental DOT), Overhead Slash, Blade Storm and Master Strike which will usually hit for 1.5k - 2k for the first two hits and then 2.5k - 3k on the last hit. Force Sweep also currently hits for 2k - 3k damage. I have no Idea how much damage my regular attack does, because I don't use it in PvP post 50 and neither should any reasonable or sane guardian. Sundering Strike hits for about 1k - 2k depending on the target and whether or not I crit. Saber Throw hits for about 2k so on and so forth. But my main damage dealing abilities hit for about 3k damage each not my regular attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanC Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm sure you'd be willing to pardon the expression of "every hit." What I meant to illustrate was that every major hit of may main damage rotation will hit a target for 3k damage on average, as long as the target is anything but a tank spec'ed character. I'm talking about Plasma Brand (1.5k initial hit on average plus the 1.5k elemental DOT), Overhead Slash, Blade Storm and Master Strike which will usually hit for 1.5k - 2k for the first two hits and then 2.5k - 3k on the last hit. Force Sweep also currently hits for 2k - 3k damage. I have no Idea how much damage my regular attack does, because I don't use it in PvP post 50 and neither should any reasonable or sane guardian. Sundering Strike hits for about 1k - 2k depending on the target and whether or not I crit. Saber Throw hits for about 2k so on and so forth. But my main damage dealing abilities hit for about 3k damage each not my regular attack. His numbers aren't that far off. I know that my blade storm usually hits for 2.2k, overhead slash for 2k, plasma brand of around 1.2k plus the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictusthetaru Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Vigilance > for everything after 1.2 because sentinels will be able to do focus 10 times better. What we bring to the table now is our immense utility. I will say that after playing w/ unremitting I'm not sure I can play w/out it. It's /drool. That being said if you aren't a serious pvper any spec is viable. I just know that no good premade will have a focus guardian in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 His numbers aren't that far off. I know that my blade storm usually hits for 2.2k, overhead slash for 2k, plasma brand of around 1.2k plus the dot. I also have full battle master gear and I've swapped out my enhancements for crit/surge and power/surge. So I've kinda perfectly min-maxed my stats. I also got the green matrix cube to increase my sustained damage and my crit rating. I have my rakata might stim as well so of course that's just amazing to have. I also got a pair of Columi Vindicator Gloves which are actually better than the Battlemaster Vindicator gloves when you consider that A) the columi gloves come with crit/surge instead of accuracy/crit and B) they give you more strength and they give you more endurance and C) I've already hit the point of diminishing returns on my expertise. So to my liking I've kinda perfectly min-maxed my gear. My main targets are usually light armored ranged DPS classes. As long as I can catch them in the open I can murder them pretty hard in fairly short order. When I crit I hit them for 3.5 - 4.5k. It's pretty freakin' amazing. With Unremitting they have a lot of trouble getting away from me as well and by the time they realize what has happened I'm ready to dispatch them. I love Vigilance. The buff in 1.2 is going to be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I also have full battle master gear and I've swapped out my enhancements for crit/surge and power/surge. So I've kinda perfectly min-maxed my stats. I also got the green matrix cube to increase my sustained damage and my crit rating. I have my rakata might stim as well so of course that's just amazing to have. I also got a pair of Columi Vindicator Gloves which are actually better than the Battlemaster Vindicator gloves when you consider that A) the columi gloves come with crit/surge instead of accuracy/crit and B) they give you more strength and they give you more endurance and C) I've already hit the point of diminishing returns on my expertise. So to my liking I've kinda perfectly min-maxed my gear. My main targets are usually light armored ranged DPS classes. As long as I can catch them in the open I can murder them pretty hard in fairly short order. When I crit I hit them for 3.5 - 4.5k. It's pretty freakin' amazing. With Unremitting they have a lot of trouble getting away from me as well and by the time they realize what has happened I'm ready to dispatch them. I love Vigilance. The buff in 1.2 is going to be amazing. So like I said, you're counting only the hits on squishies. Any class will get big numbers on squishies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 So like I said, you're counting only the hits on squishies. Any class will get big numbers on squishies. I'm a DPS. Like any good DPS I'm supposed to be hitting the squishies. That's our job. I CAN solo a tank class but that's not nearly as effecient as force pushing the person he's protecting out of his guard range and killing them before they can get near enough to protect again. You should work as a team to take down tanks after you've had a chance to kill all the other "squishies" around them. That's the point of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malleki Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm a DPS. Like any good DPS I'm supposed to be hitting the squishies. That's our job. I CAN solo a tank class but that's not nearly as effecient as force pushing the person he's protecting out of his guard range and killing them before they can get near enough to protect again. You should work as a team to take down tanks after you've had a chance to kill all the other "squishies" around them. That's the point of the game. I've been playing Vigilance for some time, and although I'm not covered in full BM gear (Just weapon and offhand) I can confirm the kind of damage he is pulling off if you Min/Max stats correctly. He is also right about our job. If your playing a Vigilance and whaling on a tank then your not going to be effective, half our attacks are Physical damage and can be mitigated & avoided. 3k+ crits on all our main attacks is completely doable, I can crit up to 4.5k on my Dispatch on anything but a tank and thats in Champ gear with stacked +Power and 75% Crit Dmg Bonus from surge. Heavy, Medium & Light armor targets are no problem for our damage, only a specifically defence stanced target with extra mitigation is going to provide a siginificant drop. We are already extremely effective single target DPS, the changes in 1.2 are going to up our survivability and damage. I'm looking forward to seeing them hit live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabredance Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 With Single Saber Mastery working in Soresu I will most certainly switch from Vigilance to Defense with my DPS set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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