Bioware, great job on ruining Commandos

[Saiyanbob]

I Seriously just LOL'd at your refusal to acknowledge Commando/Merc's surivability. Heavy armor provides 30-40 percent Dmg reduction from melee plus the stacking buff which you claim requires us to stack grav/tracer up for but neglect to acknowledge it lasts a decent amount of time so doesn't require constant killing to keep it up so you can take a break to heal. You belittle the knock backs because of gap closers which makes me think your not using your knock backs correctly. In Huttball you take the high ground and knock your opponent off the higher platform and then break los to heal. In Voidstar you knock them back either off ledges or you launch them away from you while standing by the wall to the healing buff so you can break los by running around the wall, grabbing the healing buff, and then spam a heal on yourself. (Also Voidstar is mostly a kill fest so you should hang back in a good place) In Alderaan you can knock people off the middle balconies as well as the platforms the turret controls are on. Of course all of these require smart positioning and planning ahead. (OH NOES)

 

You also briefly mentioned Grav/Tracer getting interrupted. This gave me another LOL Moment cause my pvp friends and I often laugh at Commandos/BH's that get their tracer interrupted and are quickly killed after. We laugh because it doesnt' happen to myself or our players because we have learned to use another ability while tracer is locked out or (BIG SHOCK INC) Use that opportunity to heal.

 

Overall the interrupt is a nuisance and as for the knock backs not being as good as you think they should be, I believe you should learn how to use them better as we have the best AE knock back in game and the second farthest (Second to the Sentinel/Jug force push which is single target and a 1 minute cooldown) Also Gap closers are not an issue if you think ahead. Only 1/4 of the classes can instantly close the gap and they cant jump to you while they are being knocked back so you have time to break los. The rest of the classes cant close if you knock them off the edge or cant close at all.

 

I apologize for the wall of text but I will leave you with one last piece of information. The Ops sure as heck didn't like their nerfs but they still happened and they are still played (though not excessively). The Sorcs/Sage sure as heck dont like their healing nerfs but they will still be played. Accept the fact that your not the only class who has been or is being nerfed and that you complaining will not stop it (See the OP nerfs as an example) Your choices are simple...

 

1) Accept it

 

2) Complain about it and still accept it

 

3) Re roll a character that your skills are more suited to (I hear marauder is gonna be the "OP" character this patch)

 

4) Quit

 

Those are your options as they are all of our options. Complaining about how the you wont own peoples faces as easily is useless and shows your skill if presented with a slightly harder challenge your first instinct is to complain and act like its hopeless.

[Vishos]

I Seriously just LOL'd at your refusal to acknowledge Commando/Merc's surivability. Heavy armor provides 30-40 percent Dmg reduction from melee plus the stacking buff which you claim requires us to stack grav/tracer up for but neglect to acknowledge it lasts a decent amount of time so doesn't require constant killing to keep it up so you can take a break to heal. You belittle the knock backs because of gap closers which makes me think your not using your knock backs correctly. In Huttball you take the high ground and knock your opponent off the higher platform and then break los to heal. In Voidstar you knock them back either off ledges or you launch them away from you while standing by the wall to the healing buff so you can break los by running around the wall, grabbing the healing buff, and then spam a heal on yourself. (Also Voidstar is mostly a kill fest so you should hang back in a good place) In Alderaan you can knock people off the middle balconies as well as the platforms the turret controls are on. Of course all of these require smart positioning and planning ahead. (OH NOES)

 

You also briefly mentioned Grav/Tracer getting interrupted. This gave me another LOL Moment cause my pvp friends and I often laugh at Commandos/BH's that get their tracer interrupted and are quickly killed after. We laugh because it doesnt' happen to myself or our players because we have learned to use another ability while tracer is locked out or (BIG SHOCK INC) Use that opportunity to heal.

 

Overall the interrupt is a nuisance and as for the knock backs not being as good as you think they should be, I believe you should learn how to use them better as we have the best AE knock back in game and the second farthest (Second to the Sentinel/Jug force push which is single target and a 1 minute cooldown) Also Gap closers are not an issue if you think ahead. Only 1/4 of the classes can instantly close the gap and they cant jump to you while they are being knocked back so you have time to break los. The rest of the classes cant close if you knock them off the edge or cant close at all.

 

I apologize for the wall of text but I will leave you with one last piece of information. The Ops sure as heck didn't like their nerfs but they still happened and they are still played (though not excessively). The Sorcs/Sage sure as heck dont like their healing nerfs but they will still be played. Accept the fact that your not the only class who has been or is being nerfed and that you complaining will not stop it (See the OP nerfs as an example) Your choices are simple...

 

1) Accept it

 

2) Complain about it and still accept it

 

3) Re roll a character that your skills are more suited to (I hear marauder is gonna be the "OP" character this patch)

 

4) Quit

 

Those are your options as they are all of our options. Complaining about how the you wont own peoples faces as easily is useless and shows your skill if presented with a slightly harder challenge your first instinct is to complain and act like its hopeless.

 

I have said in other posts to use charged bolts it builds the shield as well. If you bother to read more than the last page or 2 and come in with your bias opinion go for it. If thats what tickles you pink the knockback is useful if you have elevation deferences between you and the person you knockback, Sins/Shadows will stealth on you when you knock them back and pwn your face, sent/ mara will just leap back to you. sorc sge will cc you force speed to you if need be or continue the dps race vs you.

 

Were talking about better changes to our spells like the stock strike knock back since it really doesnt help where it should stun or knockdown for 2 sec. and finding better ways to give utility like actual ranged interrupts and stop making us CC to interrupt.

 

It is obvious the 4 choices you said its something we all knew already but thanks for beating the dead horse we all knew was there.

 

People who want to play starwars will suck iit up either way. im one of those people ill still find a way to outsmart my opponent and rub it in thier face.

 

The soy bacon Bioware is feeding me taste like soy bacon its not bacon. Nor is the false sense of pvp. because not every situation is based on team play where you can find yourself in open world and playing a defenseless class

[Doomsdaycomes]

Well, this will -probably- be my last post, as I've both said my part and come to the conclussion you will not be reasoned with. My only hope is that Bioware will take notice that this community is not all QQ "Omg gonna unsub cause you ruined my class I'm gonna get rolled by newb unless you fix it!"

 

Time and time again survivability and utility has been pointed out to you, and you refuse to acknowledge them, or you offer lame arguements like "That can be countered." Amazing sherlock, things in games have counters? That means your opponent has skill... and if their skill is greater then yours... don't they deserve to win?

 

From the sounds of it, you want some abilities added that have no counters... in which case I can only ask: Who here has poor sklill?

 

In a 1 vs 1 (as you seem to focus on despite pvp in ToR being mostly tean based.) often it can come down to who has their CD's still, and this is in every game. Should any class be able to chain 1 vs 1 and win constantly? No, which is what you seem to be advocating. Unless you're playing newbs (ie. skill factor) you'll need to pop cool downs in fights, and you'll need to take advantage of terrian, objectives, counters, etc... Also know as strategy and tactics. Gunnery Commandos do not suffer from some class specific crippling even post nerfs.

 

Ps. Once more, it is a fact that asking someone to exit the arguement (especially on the grounds of "this ain't your forum) is still considered a weakening statement to your own position, no matter how you package it.

[Kushtaka]

Ahh so what I'm seeing from all the "real Commandos/Mercs/pvprs" is the following, and allow me to retort albeit briefly from a PvP perspective:

 

"Since this is a team based game, 1v1 means nothing..."

-Wrong, a strong 1v1 class makes an excellent part of any strong team set up. A class that needs to be babysat yet only brings damage (damage that several other classes can do) with little to no CC and not even a simple interrupt is not worth bringing. This is from years of PvP in other MMO's: dead weight gets dropped.

 

"Healer specc'd Commando's/Merc's are nearly unbeatable 1v1, so that means all specs are strong..."

-Not all of us want or need to play healers, and yes healers of any class in this game are very tough 1v1, but so are other classes that do not have a healing spec. We don't want to be gods, we want parity. Commando damage is not so high that it does not warrant survivability. Put a Shadow/Assassin on a Sage, watch the Sage get away and continue contributing to their teams effort. Put that same melee on a Commando...over.

 

"You guys are crying about a simple 10% nerf to Grav Round..."

-No, many of us have said the damage reduction is not the issue, it's the other things that are being piled on top of it with nothing in return save a 10% inrease on Demo Round. I'd take a 10% reduction to all damage in return for some CC, an interrupt and some more survivability. Bioware made Grav Round, not us, just like they made Telekinetic Throw...did someone say Spam and Eggs?

 

"Commandos and Mercs hit 1 button all the way to 400k in WZ's...."

-Anyone who knows this class knows that's a joke, wait, we must be spamming Telekinetic Throw/Lightning...no wait that would be too annoying...next.

 

"Commando/Merc are always number 1 in damage..."

-Mmmmmmmm...no. If I hit 400k in a WZ, there are usually Sages and Sorcs at 500k+ beating me. Furthermore, Ops and Scoundrels are rolling with the Annihilator badge (5k hit) in WZ's all the time, I have never earned that badge and I'm sitting in nearly full BM gear.

 

 

Maybe I'm just looking at it from a different angle than others, I don't know. Maybe I'm just looking at it from my own servers POV, The Fatman, where Empire rolls premade after premade and the teams are stacked with great players. I do quite well on my Commando and I'll still do well after the patch; I'm not going to lie and say I do low damage and cannot function etc etc. But no matter how well I do, there are glaring issues when comparing this class to others in a "team environment", the Commando falls way short. I guess what bothers me is I see classes that I know are very, very strong getting stronger after this incoming patch, yet my favorite class is getting its damage reduced with nothing in return. Commando (damage spec) only brings damage, not much else. Sage/Sorc brings ranged damage and more to a team, so why bring a Commando??????

Edited April 3, 2012 by Kushtaka

[Doomsdaycomes]

Ahh so what I'm seeing from all the "real Commandos/Mercs/pvprs" is the following, and allow me to retort albeit briefly from a PvP perspective:

 

"Since this is a team based game, 1v1 means nothing..."

-Wrong, a strong 1v1 class makes an excellent part of any strong team set up. A class that needs to be babysat yet only brings damage (damage that several other classes can do) with little to no CC and not even a simple interrupt is not worth bringing. This is from years of PvP in other MMO's: dead weight gets dropped.

 

"Healer specc'd Commando's/Merc's are nearly unbeatable 1v1, so that means all specs are strong..."

-Not all of us want or need to play healers, and yes healers of any class in this game are very tough 1v1, but so are other classes that do not have a healing spec. We don't want to be gods, we want parity. Commando damage is not so high that it does not warrant survivability. Put a Shadow/Assassin on a Sage, watch the Sage get away and continue contributing to their teams effort. Put that same melee on a Commando...over.

 

"You guys are crying about a simple 10% nerf to Grav Round..."

-No, many of us have said the damage reduction is not the issue, it's the other things that are being piled on top of it with nothing in return save a 10% inrease on Demo Round. I'd take a 10% reduction to all damage in return for some CC, an interrupt and some more survivability. Bioware made Grav Round, not us, just like they made Telekinetic Throw...did someone say Spam and Eggs?

 

"Commandos and Mercs hit 1 button all the way to 400k in WZ's...."

-Anyone who knows this class knows that's a joke, wait, we must be spamming Telekinetic Throw/Lightning...no wait that would be too annoying...next.

 

"Commando/Merc are always number 1 in damage..."

-Mmmmmmmm...no. If I hit 400k in a WZ, there are usually Sages and Sorcs at 500k+ beating me. Furthermore, Ops and Scoundrels are rolling with the Annihilator badge (5k hit) in WZ's all the time, I have never earned that badge and I'm sitting in nearly full BM gear.

 

 

Maybe I'm just looking at it from a different angle than others, I don't know. Maybe I'm just looking at it from my own servers POV, The Fatman, where Empire rolls premade after premade and the teams are stacked with great players. I do quite well on my Commando and I'll still do well after the patch; I'm not going to lie and say I do low damage and cannot function etc etc. But no matter how well I do, there are glaring issues when comparing this class to others in a "team environment", the Commando falls way short. I guess what bothers me is I see classes that I know are very, very strong getting stronger after this incoming patch, yet my favorite class is getting its damage reduced with nothing in return. Commando (damage spec) only brings damage, not much else. Sage/Sorc brings ranged damage and more to a team, so why bring a Commando??????

 

Perhaps it's not my last post. I'm glad to see someone who appears perhaps they will bring an interesting side to the debate. Welcome :-)

 

Personally, I don't think Mercs/Commandos are the end all be all of pvp, and will agree there are stronger classes. The learning curve on those classes is certianly steeper, and you'll see many more "bad" mauraders getting rolled then "bad" commandos. This may be from my servers POV, which sadly is a hard fact to argue.

 

I still can't believe the continued statement that a gunnery commando lacks survivability, considering the number of options and abilities I offered in previous posts, which are available to all merc/commandos (with the exception of the trac/grav buff and second knock back). With the exception of the sentinel/maurader buff that I myself have questioned, Commandos still offer a strong ranged, heavily armored 1 vs 1 combatant to other classes. We have a decent combination of defensive cool downs, off-heals, knockbacks, and two CC's (one a stun, another a full length CC).

 

To answer, gunnery commandos will still bring a decent fighter to ranked premades, offering a combination of firepower, survivability, and in groups, a combined stacking vortex debuff that will *murder* the FF target. They are far from "ruined" and my next 50 will be a Gunnery Commando on my same server, as trooper has been one of classes on my "to play" list from day 1.

 

I'm sorry your server (in your server's POV) has suffered from either a plague of jerks, or a large amount of decent players, but we still (even as pure dps) are strong 1 vs 1 against most classes and definitely have our place on premades.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Doomsdaycomes

[ImariKurumi]

@Doomsdaycomes

 

Just for the record, heavy armor doesnt mean jack, its the elemental/kinetic/force/tech dmg that kills us, and most average or decent players will save those skills for commandos.

 

But i do agree with Gunnery commando having OP dmg, provided its team play. 1v1, gunnery will get rolled, really they have lesser survivability and it seems every other class has interrupts, which is a boon to Gunnery Commando. Then again, i believe Gunnery is not meant to be a 1v1 focus class.

[Mightywombat]

since when didnt armor mean anything?having heavy armor helps alot for the trooper/bh, the changes that are coming for these classes is needed...just kids thats going awal since they cant rampage as they wish anymore and have to acually think and react.

 

and yes i have a lvl 50 merc, arsenal. and will continue with that after patch hits.

[Merc_Cmdr]

since when didnt armor mean anything?having heavy armor helps alot for the trooper/bh, the changes that are coming for these classes is needed...just kids thats going awal since they cant rampage as they wish anymore and have to acually think and react.

 

and yes i have a lvl 50 merc, arsenal. and will continue with that after patch hits.

 

As you have a 50 merc you should probably realize that most attacks are not mitigated by your heavy armor, you can even read that in the tooltip that displays when you mouse over your damage mitigation. I doubt any kids playing commando or merc were going on rampages anyway considering the ease with which the class is locked down and destroyed if you just sit there spamming grav/tracer missile. The changes don't really even affect commando pvp, you still spam grav round and now you full auto a bit more. Weeee

[Kushtaka]

As you have a 50 merc you should probably realize that most attacks are not mitigated by your heavy armor, you can even read that in the tooltip that displays when you mouse over your damage mitigation. I doubt any kids playing commando or merc were going on rampages anyway considering the ease with which the class is locked down and destroyed if you just sit there spamming grav/tracer missile. The changes don't really even affect commando pvp, you still spam grav round and now you full auto a bit more. Weeee

 

Bro, it's HEAVY ARMOR IT HAS TO BE GOOD! I think the only reason ours is called "heavy" is because it weighs a lot.

[ShakesMcQueen]

As you have a 50 merc you should probably realize that most attacks are not mitigated by your heavy armor, you can even read that in the tooltip that displays when you mouse over your damage mitigation. I doubt any kids playing commando or merc were going on rampages anyway considering the ease with which the class is locked down and destroyed if you just sit there spamming grav/tracer missile. The changes don't really even affect commando pvp, you still spam grav round and now you full auto a bit more. Weeee

 

As a sniper, I can say most of our attacks are directly mitigated by your armor.

[ImariKurumi]

Bro, it's HEAVY ARMOR IT HAS TO BE GOOD! I think the only reason ours is called "heavy" is because it weighs a lot.

 

***** man, you again hahahaha. I gotta stop LOLing in the office...

 

As a sniper, I can say most of our attacks are directly mitigated by your armor.

 

True that, most of your hard hitting skills are based on wep dmg. Lets see you have ONLY 2 energy skills, 2 elemental skills, 2 internal skills, 3 kinetic skills, stun, shatter shot to reduce armor, crit base class... dude... you gotta be kidding me... You're practically our nightmare...

 

 

On another note, most people think that guardians with heavy armor can tank 2s or 3s in pvp, which means medics can do the same. They forgot that Guardians have better mitigation and % dmg reduction + talents and skills, those are the ones that help them tank in pvp, not dumb Heavy Armor. Heavy Armor is just a tool for pve. In PvP it makes no diff. Like Kushtaka mentioned, its just Heavy Armor because it weighs a lot...

Edited April 4, 2012 by ImariKurumi

[Iram]

***** man, you again hahahaha. I gotta stop LOLing in the office...

 

 

 

True that, most of your hard hitting skills are based on wep dmg. Lets see you have ONLY 2 energy skills, 2 elemental skills, 2 internal skills, 3 kinetic skills, stun, shatter shot to reduce armor, crit base class... dude... you gotta be kidding me... You're practically our nightmare...

 

 

On another note, most people think that guardians with heavy armor can tank 2s or 3s in pvp, which means medics can do the same. They forgot that Guardians have better mitigation and % dmg reduction + talents and skills, those are the ones that help them tank in pvp, not dumb Heavy Armor. Heavy Armor is just a tool for pve. In PvP it makes no diff. Like Kushtaka mentioned, its just Heavy Armor because it weighs a lot...

 

I'm pretty sure snipers also have a ranged interrupt...

[Merc_Cmdr]

I'm pretty sure snipers also have a ranged interrupt...

 

As do sages/sorcs the other ranged dps class. Which class has 0 interrupts again?

[Niconogood]

I believe Bioware has said time and time again, Pvp was designed to be a team effort. TEAM. Not duels, not 1 vs. 1, not pony races, not e-peen stroking matches... team. Thus, most of these nerfs have been to make the commando a less solitary fortress and a more team friendly/reliant class, as all classes should be. (On an opposite note, I will agree I question the maur/sent buffs.)

 

I play a 50 Merc in full champion (oh no! Newb alert -.- it's one of my 3 lvl 50's and I have a job, not saying others don't.) She specc'ed heals, and for a short time I had her a heal/dps hybrid. She absolutely destroyed everything in matches, and as a full heal spec she's been refered to as "The Unbeatable Judice." Mercs/Commandos had an exceeding amount of survivability and in a team setting, needed a nerf.

 

So please get that around your heads before QQ'ing about nerfs cause now you're not as good 1 vs. 1. It's called l2p on a team, and you will feel unbeatable once again. -.- so tired of the pity threads popping up raging about nerfs that were nearly across the board. Check the Sorcs/Sages, The Pyrotech/Vanguard, Ops/Scoundrel threads...

 

And stop reposting QQ threads!

 

^_^ Ty Bioware, good luck with future balancing.

 

Edit:

 

 

 

This guy get's it. A team... *Team* featuring 2-3 commandos can still roll people as long as they work as a team, even against another team using guard/taunts/heals. It's team pvp peeps, l2p it!

 

And you don't need to have 2-3 commandos to still own, you just need to still work with/coordinate with a team.

 

How hard is it to understand that a class that sucks 1v1, will usually also blow in teams. The only exception can be if you bring lots of other targets only buffs and abilities. Do commandos have that? If no, we still suck in teams as we do in 1v1s. Have no idea why anyone would bring a commando to rated WZs as 1 melee will shut them completely down and kill them with no means of doing anything. How team supportive is that?

 

3 marauders will beat 3 evengeared/skilled commandos 99% of the time. You have to remember that DpS commandos dont even have interruptimmunity during those 12 seconds of reactive shield, and marauders have 3-4 interrupts, which most are on very short CDs.

[Tiber_Septim]

we still (even as pure dps) are strong 1 vs 1 against most classes

I'm sorry to be blunt but that's FAR from the truth, all melee classes and most ranged classes will walk over a gunnery commando in equal conditions. The class abilities and tree don't offer any real survivability. And they're nerfing damage reduction from casting grav round even more, as if it mattered much..

 

One person goes so far to propose 40% dmg reduction from heavy armor, what was he smoking? It's around 30% with the best of gear. Heavy armor means next to nothing unless it's on a tank class in the first place.

[ImariKurumi]

I'm sorry to be blunt but that's FAR from the truth, all melee classes and most ranged classes will walk over a gunnery commando in equal conditions. The class abilities and tree don't offer any real survivability. And they're nerfing damage reduction from casting grav round even more, as if it mattered much..

 

Other classes only look at dmg... Dmg = Imba = 1v1 speciality. But i still think gunnery are best left as artillery/turret roll and not a 1v1 speciality.

 

One person goes so far to propose 40% dmg reduction from heavy armor, what was he smoking? It's around 30% with the best of gear. Heavy armor means next to nothing unless it's on a tank class in the first place.

 

Theres a lot of noobs in the game, i can tell you a lot of those elite pvp people are also not knowledgable of the actual mechanics behind the defense/attack system in Swtor. Its frustrating.

 

They just dont get it that Guardians have the talents and skills that fully utilize heavy armor and reduce/mitigate many dmg types. Hell i bet they dont even know theres different types of attacks, elemental, tech, etc and what dmg goes through what.

 

Ignorance and stupidity at its finest.

 

Read this to stop being stupid

Read this to stop being dumb

 

Compared to other classes, we lack reliable CC/Interrupts/Escape/mitigation/defense/resistance. How hard can it be to kill a squishy healer? How OP is a glass cannon? You dps are the ones playing it wrong, or maybe your premade party friends actually suck at playing.

If you dps somehow cant kill a Commando medic or gunnery with ease, then you deserve to be shot dead, quit this game.

Edited April 5, 2012 by ImariKurumi

[Kushtaka]

Other classes only look at dmg... Dmg = Imba = 1v1 speciality. But i still think gunnery are best left as artillery/turret roll and not a 1v1 speciality.

 

 

 

Theres a lot of noobs in the game, i can tell you a lot of those elite pvp people are also not knowledgable of the actual mechanics behind the defense/attack system in Swtor. Its frustrating.

 

They just dont get it that Guardians have the talents and skills that fully utilize heavy armor and reduce/mitigate many dmg types. Hell i bet they dont even know theres different types of attacks, elemental, tech, etc and what dmg goes through what.

 

Ignorance and stupidity at its finest.

 

Read this to stop being stupid

Read this to stop being dumb

 

Compared to other classes, we lack reliable CC/Interrupts/Escape/mitigation/defense/resistance. How hard can it be to kill a squishy healer? How OP is a glass cannon? You dps are the ones playing it wrong, or maybe your premade party friends actually suck at playing.

If you dps somehow cant kill a Commando medic or gunnery with ease, then you deserve to be shot dead, quit this game.

 

 

Sadly, I doubt that by the time any of these issues are finally dealt with, those of us who cared will be gone or not even playing this class. The Commando class is not important enough nor is it even iconic enough to warrant being fixed, that's that. I think SW:TOR is a botched experiment at this point, I'm seeing so many glaring issues within so many facets of this game it's not even funny and the only reason I'm still playing is because there is really nothing else to play...yet.

 

The poor handling of the Commando in patch 1.2 by Bioware is just a microchasm of all the other issues in the game, like: too many servers, no cross realm WZ's, lackluster end game in both PvP and PvE, knee-jerk reaction nerfing and buffing of classes...the list goes on and on. Anyways, back to getting my Commando to rank 80 so I have nothing to show for it in 1.2.

[NeverRose]

Sadly, I doubt that by the time any of these issues are finally dealt with, those of us who cared will be gone or not even playing this class. The Commando class is not important enough nor is it even iconic enough to warrant being fixed, that's that. I think SW:TOR is a botched experiment at this point, I'm seeing so many glaring issues within so many facets of this game it's not even funny and the only reason I'm still playing is because there is really nothing else to play...yet.

 

The poor handling of the Commando in patch 1.2 by Bioware is just a microchasm of all the other issues in the game, like: too many servers, no cross realm WZ's, lackluster end game in both PvP and PvE, knee-jerk reaction nerfing and buffing of classes...the list goes on and on. Anyways, back to getting my Commando to rank 80 so I have nothing to show for it in 1.2.

 

 

No wonder PvP looks like this recently:

 

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eMvrqG6ESQQ/SrZXuFJgp9I/AAAAAAAAFlk/atViZPLeYuM/s400/dogs_jumping.jpg

[Kushtaka]

No wonder PvP looks like this recently:

 

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eMvrqG6ESQQ/SrZXuFJgp9I/AAAAAAAAFlk/atViZPLeYuM/s400/dogs_jumping.jpg

 

That looks about right.

[Hatham]

True that, most of your hard hitting skills are based on wep dmg. Lets see you have ONLY 2 energy skills, 2 elemental skills, 2 internal skills, 3 kinetic skills, stun, shatter shot to reduce armor, crit base class... dude... you gotta be kidding me... You're practically our nightmare...

 

Kinetic damage is mitigated by armor, it's elemental and internal that ignore it. Also cover makes snipers immune to interrupts so your lack of one doesn't matter in this fight at least

[Unotos]

Guys stop using WZ damage meters to try and show " DPS " those meters mean NOTHING.... hell I went into a 50 wz with a brand new alt and because I didnt die and was good at hiding... i was top3 in damage done (thats why snipers/slingers do well cause range hiding / not focused).... Damage in WZ means you were not killed alot or focused / did stupid things.

 

With 1.2 there has been alot of comparision of DPS classes with the addition of the combat log and parse tools to pull damage done... it seems commandos/sages/jk/shadows are all around the same give or take in terms of dps ... it seems gunsligers and scounds are waaaay hurting atm but that could change.....

 

The changes to commandos in 1.2 are needed from a rotation stand point... now you HAVE to full auto when barage procs... other wise its a dps loss... the over all dps loss in the entire class has been close to determined to be around 9% over all in current gear.....

 

But if you have already cancelled and gone elsewhere...dont bother playing any future mmos because they all do this at one point or another with the classes.

 

Edit: Remember... DPS means damage per second and is used very highly in boss fights... DPH is damage per hit... BIG numbers.... big numbers does not equal high dps... So burst classes do well in pvp but do terrible in pve on bosses in terms of dps over time.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Unotos

[Darianth]

And regardless of all this godly overpoweredness you speak of, a single marauder played with one hand by a lobotomized goat could shut down and kill even the best commandos (of any spec) around.

 

Thanks for being funny dude.

 

I believe you are a bit delusional. Maybe a person who has perfected the sent/maurader would be able to take you down but if you seriously think the two A.C.s are that easy I suggest you roll one and see jut how difficult it is.

[Quantemoq]

I believe you are a bit delusional. Maybe a person who has perfected the sent/maurader would be able to take you down but if you seriously think the two A.C.s are that easy I suggest you roll one and see jut how difficult it is.

 

i agree,

 

i got both arsenal merc and anni marauder in full bm, datacrons, stims etc (and 2 piece rakata for the merc)

 

and while i agree that if you use all your interrupts, obfuscate and stealth sometimes, you will shut down every merc unless you screw up.

 

but that will require you to play the keyboard like a piano. and when you make a mistake the huge burst of an arsenal merc can quckly shut you down , especially when it is not a wild west showdown ally but a crowded battleground.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Quantemoq

[AzKnc]

Actually, what's really funny is, that's what the Marauders/Sentinels/Juggernauts/Guardians say about Commandos/Mercs/Sorcs/Sages.

 

Edit: ^They did not lower our dmg output as Gunnery. You lose 10% from Grav Round and gained 10% in Demo Round and Full Auto procs. Unless all you did was spam Grav Round, your primary dmg abilities remain strong or got buffed.

 

Ah i see, you're one of those. Gunnery was and will remain dead meat in pvp, it's a spec only people who are fine with dying loads and being inferior to basically everything else play. Gunnery has 0 survivability, and ANY other class can make it its little ***** by interrupting, losing, or simply outhealing/outdamaging. I'm sorry to break it to you, but if you are a gunnery pvp hero you might as well drop the attitude, cause it's the spec only mediocre people who are fine with being mediocre play.

 

Full healer or healer hybrid with grav round were the ONLY viable options for any sort of serious pvp, and they'll both be atrocious due to the nerfs in the medic and gunnery tree.

 

I don't care if gunnery remains the same or is actually doing even a bit more damage, it was awful before and it's awful now.

[Stoneskulls]

Our guild was raiding the new Ops last night (I know most of these threads are talking PVP, but I'm going to come at this from a PVE standpoint).

 

I've really noticed a difference in my overall dps....I have to now use my free attack more often, just to keep my ammo regen to top, so my overall dps is still good.

 

The first bosses: you have 2 tanks, 4 dps, 2 heals. You have to split the groups, 2 ranged, with 1 tank, 1 heals, and the other group, 2 melee, 1 tank, 1 heals. You have to basically kill the bosses at the same time.

 

With ranged, not moving alot, and the melee needing to move out for the aoe crush, we were basically even in dps. I'm a comando (gunner), and the other ranged was a hybrid sage. Both groups were basically the same dps, so we were able to go full boar the whole time, and not worry about it. The melee had to wait for the boss to reach them at times (loss of dps, because we were switching tanks, and nobody else), and the melee(one sentinal and one guardian) also had to move out of the boss's aoe attacks, so they were moving quite a bit....and the ranged not moving much at all. We still were basically burning the bosses at the same rate. We got them down.......now onto boss 2 (2 tank fight again). This also shows the greater dps of the melee classes.

 

In the 2 tank fight, both groups have to move roughly equally, you could clearly see the disparity. By the time the first tank was dead, the ranged group was 20% behind. (We were testing to see if killing one tank over the other would create a soft enrage or not.....it doesn't but creates other issues with the fight which I won't go into.) So when factoring in about the same amount of movement needed, the melee classes were clearly ahead in terms of DPS.

 

We had to switch up teams just to keep the damage balanced on these bosses.

 

Here iss the clear deal......movement. Troopers are fine on dps on damage if they can just sit there and blow stuff up.....but how often does that happen. Yea, I had to switch up my rotation a bit, and have to watch my ammo a bit more. I would definetly say I took a overall hit on DPS, no lie. The problem is when you factor in the moving aspect. If we have to move around, clearly our DPS suffers significantly...where the melee classes not so much. Add that to the pvp mix, and hell, if anybody is worth their salt, they are not going to let a trooper just sit there and blow them up from range......they will get in their face, interrupt ect etc.

 

On a normal roation, Curtain does not proc as much as I would hope, in order to make up for the additonal cost of Grav round in terms of ammo. There were still times that I had to hammer shot, just because I didn't want to fire off a grav round(because of the new 2ammo cost), and every other ability I use in rotation was on cooldown. Now if I had nearly full ammo, of course a grav round is staple...but not nearly as much when it cost only 1 ammo to cast.

 

Anyway, this is a PVE scenerario, and I definetly feel a bit gimped when looking at dps of melee.....and as been stated before....we have almost nothing in order to survive....and I've seen several threads that seem to think the Heavy Armor calculations got switched around, and we now take more damage than pre 1.2. I noticed that a bit too...but I was in a new zone, and the damage just might be a bit higher to deal with.

 

Anyway, my 2cents on the issue.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Stoneskulls