1.2 - Combat Medic - Major Nerfs

[GySgtKerr]

so apparently in the latest update on the test server combat medics are getting a battle rez. An obvious way to make CM's shut up about not getting enough from 1.2 or what? Edited March 30, 2012 by GySgtKerr

[LillyWhiteS]

so apparently in the latest update on the test server combat medics are getting a battle rez. An obvious way to make CM's shut up about not getting enough from 1.2 or what?

 

It's something we should have had all along, it's equality and no more and shouldn't mean the nerfs are justified at all, or stop us getting other things we wanted more like an escape ability and ammo situation improved of course.

 

But once again the DEVS show more love for the higher pop and thus higher QQ class, Sages/Sorcs got a talent to reduce the effect of one of the major nerfs they got, it's unbelieveable how much favouritism they show to certain classes...

 

The gap is only getting wider bettween the classes come 1.2, they already are the best healing class, have a sh**load of stuff we don't and now they get this because they can QQ more than us...

 

Larger numbers are playing that class are for a reason BW, and it's not becasuse they are a weaker healer than the others...

 

Sigh BW

Edited March 30, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[RuQu]

 

Larger numbers are playing that class are for a reason BW, and it's not becasuse they are a weaker healer than the others...

 

Sigh BW

 

They are clearly playing Sorcs in such high numbers purely because the Sith fantasy is so popular. That's why the Han Solo arch-type is the least played class...no one liked him.

 

The imbalance in population can't possibly be a reflection of in-game mechanics.

[LillyWhiteS]

They are clearly playing Sorcs in such high numbers purely because the Sith fantasy is so popular. That's why the Han Solo arch-type is the least played class...no one liked him.

 

The imbalance in population can't possibly be a reflection of in-game mechanics.

 

While I agree that would play a big part, if they were the worst healers in the game, you can bet less would be playing them, how many less I don't know

Edited March 30, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[ocping]

I believe this nerf is too big. Yes, commandos/mercs were overpowered in PVP healing but it's only because they are immune to interrupts with the defensive shield up. Fix that, and tone down some of the instant heals and it would've been ok.

 

Trauma now requiring 2 cells is a huge nerf.

[RuQu]

While I agree that would play a big part, if they were the worst healers in the game, you can bet less would be playing them, how many less I don't know

 

That was exactly my point.

[LillyWhiteS]

I believe this nerf is too big. Yes, commandos/mercs were overpowered in PVP healing but it's only because they are immune to interrupts with the defensive shield up. Fix that, and tone down some of the instant heals and it would've been ok.

 

Trauma now requiring 2 cells is a huge nerf.

 

Have seen a few people say the Combat Shield is to blame, the trouble is once you are up against a decent team with good timing, or just a pug that timed it right, you can still be chain CC with it up and only get a heal or two off, you also spend three skill points on it, so it has to be worth it.

 

Sure against most pugs it doesn't happen that often, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

 

I have had three forms of CC with it up on multiple occassions, just got a heal or two up before it finished.

 

You have to remember that interrupts only make up a minority of CC, doesn't stop stuns, chokes and sending you flying etc

 

And yep the Trauma prob nerf shows something is very much wrong, not everyone even bothers with it because it's weak, myself I only use it because it can be moved around and mainly only because it's free.

 

With a two ammo cost, it lost the little value it had in PvP and that skill point will go elsewhere for me, needed a substantial buff to the heal amount and castable on multiple allies to warrant that nerf...

 

The Supercharge nerf is very annoying, was perfectly fine...

Edited March 30, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[oaceen]

i've also noticed that i pull a lot of healing aggro (especially with large groups) when i put trauma probe on the tank.

 

i don't even cast it on them anymore. i put it on the dps so i don't have to keep going to heal him as much

or myself, but since using it on someone else is the main reason i'd want it on myself.....

 

honestly probably not going to even trait it anymore unless they improved it in some way.

[DarkSideTOR]

ridiculous nerf, I will no longer play as a healer, fortunately, I was already getting my DPS set, now, this will be my main role...

 

By this same token Operative healers can't be killed 1 on 1 in PVP either, and yet I see no upcoming nerfs to them?

[GySgtKerr]

The nerf to healing power wouldn't be so bad, like I said before, I can understand it. But to nerf the healing power while increasing the cost of each healing skills is like putting the final nail into a coffin. CM is already screwed in large ops boss fights where many aoe skills go off in relatively short time. With 1.2, CM will become totally useless simply do the fact that we won't be able to keep people up, 3 big heals, Adv probe and regular probe, you're out of ammo stuck waiting for it to recharge or hit reload and be in the same situation with no ammo when boss decides to use his next big aoe skills.

 

As for the battle rez, at this point I think its completely useless to CM's. We learned to get around it. With a 5min cool down timer between skills and with healing output being nerfed as it is. There won't be much use for it. 2-3 people die, fights over, best you can do is suicide or zone out.

 

Personally I think BW is attempting to make a support class out of the CM, sorta like the bard from rift, if that is the actual case, so far its been a complete and total failure.

Edited March 31, 2012 by GySgtKerr

[Blockk]

Sorry mom, if RuQu and I play nice again, will we get a cookie?

 

Mint ......... luff

[NeverRose]

I think Bioware thinks that heavy armor makes up for all these nerfs.

 

 

Hint - It doesn't. Commando is most of the time screwed more than his healer counterparts when it comes to self-defense.

Edited April 2, 2012 by NeverRose

[ImariKurumi]

Too many noobs complaning they cant kill a Medic in 1v1. They think healers are meant to die in 1v1. To my knowledge healers are suppose to excel in 1v1 through a battle of endurance and outlasting. Heavy armor helps in PvE, but in PvP we're screwed. Got no interrupts, minimal CCs. If im not mistaken we're getting a 33% ammo effeciency nerf and around 40% healing power(Inclusive of mitigation/damage reduce) nerf? Would be nice if someone can provide a log to get exact %.

 

Anyways, they still complain not knowing the medic they cant kill is wearing battlemaster pvp set and is being Guarded while they have ***** gear. Swear to god they should rename "DPS class" to "Troll class".

 

Well at least when CM is nerfed hard, if stupid Trolls complain about no Heals, they'd know that they are the root of the problem.

[Fallerup]

The nerf to healing power wouldn't be so bad, like I said before, I can understand it. But to nerf the healing power while increasing the cost of each healing skills is like putting the final nail into a coffin. CM is already screwed in large ops boss fights where many aoe skills go off in relatively short time. With 1.2, CM will become totally useless simply do the fact that we won't be able to keep people up, 3 big heals, Adv probe and regular probe, you're out of ammo stuck waiting for it to recharge or hit reload and be in the same situation with no ammo when boss decides to use his next big aoe skills.

 

As for the battle rez, at this point I think its completely useless to CM's. We learned to get around it. With a 5min cool down timer between skills and with healing output being nerfed as it is. There won't be much use for it. 2-3 people die, fights over, best you can do is suicide or zone out.

 

Personally I think BW is attempting to make a support class out of the CM, sorta like the bard from rift, if that is the actual case, so far its been a complete and total failure.

 

I'm rubbing my hands together in delight at this post. you medics are finally killable1v1 in PvP where as, now, you are not.

[ImariKurumi]

I'm rubbing my hands together in delight at this post. you medics are finally killable1v1 in PvP where as, now, you are not.

 

Lmao, and you posted just after my rant. Dont complain if you die and dont get heals in WZ, cos peeps like you turned out class into a free frag class, and dead healers dont heal...

[Fallerup]

Lmao, and you posted just after my rant. Dont complain if you die and dont get heals in WZ, cos peeps like you turned out class into a free frag class, and dead healers dont heal...

 

I play assassin But of course, Bounty hunters are hit with the same nerf bat, which I'm also delighted about (Huttball & Novae Coast).

[Aritok]

I'm rubbing my hands together in delight at this post. you medics are finally killable1v1 in PvP where as, now, you are not.

 

Yes. Healers are this badly nerfed now that every idiot can kill a healer 1vs1 in pvp now, no matter how bad the gear is.

But on the other hand, you could still have problems to kill one.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Aritok

[Gigglefluff]

Firstly I'll start by saying i play a 50 sorcerer healer and a 50 trooper healer.

 

Firstly a tad off topic, the changes to middle tree are a buff due to the damage output of the full auto, and the chance of the proc have been "significantly" increased.

 

Now, Trooper healers, those few of you there are, Before we complain about nerfs to healing count your beans, frankly the changes are significant and will gimp clutch healing unfortunately. However bacta infusion, which is awesome, is not being nerfed, yet, so all the trooper healers still have their oh **** button that costs nothing. Primarily the only issue that i have with these changes is the cost of trauma probe being 2 ammo, the amount of healing it does total is actually comparable with a medical probe and therefore it would technically make it balanced, however in reality it is not a solid heal and should really only cost 1 ammo, free was too cheap, 2 is too much, 1 is right.

 

Also, it seems to me that all these changes to healing trees are rather uncalled for but are evidently pointing towards less efficiency, and ill be honest the amount that troopers change is still gonna be better than sorcs, sorcs will no longer be taken on raids because force energy will run out before the boss hits 80% hp. Imagine your actually regen of ammo is 0.16 ammo per second, that is what sorcs will now have to make do with to heal, woopdy doo. Evidence points towards a real fail at balancing something because whiny pvpers don't know how to play. Healers should ALWAYS BEAT A DPS 1 ON 1... ALWAYS!!! However this game is currently a pvp orientated game because there is so little raid content, and as is, pvp players who complain are getting what they ask for because BW isn't testing what they are changing. Also a significant buff to marauders which are already unbeatable in pvp is absolutely insane. To buff dispatch to usable at 30% hp, gg guys your nerfs aren't gonna be the problem, but a marauder or juggernaut, seeing you with 30% hp, or anyone with 30% hp, is going to die from a 8k crit, g flippin g. It ultimately resolves to making a healer worth the same as a dps which is just poor game design, a team with healers should beat those without, too many healers is bad, but 2 or 3 is good, they should stay as is. With regards to healing issues in pvp, the pvp stat is the only thing that needs changing, remove the healing % buff, remove the damage % buff, remove the armor reduction buff and make it like wow, where there is less crit chance, and less crit damage taken.

 

But as an mmo player for years now, i will say that patch noted always things look out to be far worse than they really, are, until we try it, stop whining and we will just get the hell along and try it.

[BobaFaceroll]

Firstly a tad off topic, the changes to middle tree are a buff due to the damage output of the full auto, and the chance of the proc have been "significantly" increased.

 

Damage changes in Gunnery (the middle tree) aren't the problem. They're shuffling numbers around to try and encourage people to use Grav Round less. Whatever. That's not the issue, at least to me. For me the real issue is the unnecessary hit to your survivability due to the changes to Tenacious Defense and Charged Barrier. Gunnery Commandos weren't hard to kill to begin with...did it really need to be easier?

 

Just opinion of course.

[SpaniardInfinity]

Now, Trooper healers, those few of you there are, Before we complain about nerfs to healing count your beans, frankly the changes are significant and will gimp clutch healing unfortunately. However bacta infusion, which is awesome, is not being nerfed, yet, so all the trooper healers still have their oh **** button that costs nothing.

 

I think you have a different definition of oh **** healing than I do. Bacta Infusion, at least for me, is a way to keep my ammo costs down and is a very solid mobile heal that is roughly equal to Advanced Medical Probe. It, however, is not an oh **** button in my opinion. Supercharge Cells is my go-to when the going gets tough. Tech Overriding a Medical Probe is also an excellent emergency heal (an instant Medical Probe is one of the strongest instant heals in the game) and I'd really like to see Combat Medics have a way to chizzle down that 2 minute cooldown to use more frequently.

 

Primarily the only issue that i have with these changes is the cost of trauma probe being 2 ammo, the amount of healing it does total is actually comparable with a medical probe and therefore it would technically make it balanced, however in reality it is not a solid heal and should really only cost 1 ammo, free was too cheap, 2 is too much, 1 is right.

 

In all honesty, this change is the most baffling to Combat Medic. If we were overhealing, I can't see how Trauma Probe was involved. It should be said that there is a bug with this ability that causes it to activate twice, and thus more frequently than intended. This should be fixed. But I still don't see how increasing its cost makes any sense.

 

To me, raising the cost of AMP/MP tells me that Bioware wants us to find alternative ways to heal, fine that's acceptable. But then the nerf to Trauma Probe tells me that it's too powerful for no cost. ~300 healing once every 3 seconds (when not bugged) is over-target? Pardon my Spanish, but what the **** is your target if that is too high?

 

Like I said, if our bread-and-butter heal is too much, wean our reliance off of it. That is understandable. It encourages the use of other abilities - Trauma Probe just won't be on of them. This change essentially makes the Trauma Probe a placeholder skill in our skill tree, since it will only be useful as prep or if you can spare 2 ammo in the middle of a fight to refresh it on a tank. With our other ammo costs going up along side the difficulty, it remains to be seen how often that will be.

 

Also, it seems to me that all these changes to healing trees are rather uncalled for but are evidently pointing towards less efficiency, and ill be honest the amount that troopers change is still gonna be better than sorcs, sorcs will no longer be taken on raids because force energy will run out before the boss hits 80% hp. Imagine your actually regen of ammo is 0.16 ammo per second, that is what sorcs will now have to make do with to heal, woopdy doo.

 

Cannot comment. (I don't play a Sage).

 

Evidence points towards a real fail at balancing something because whiny pvpers don't know how to play. Healers should ALWAYS BEAT A DPS 1 ON 1... ALWAYS!!! However this game is currently a pvp orientated game because there is so little raid content, and as is, pvp players who complain are getting what they ask for because BW isn't testing what they are changing. Also a significant buff to marauders which are already unbeatable in pvp is absolutely insane. To buff dispatch to usable at 30% hp, gg guys your nerfs aren't gonna be the problem, but a marauder or juggernaut, seeing you with 30% hp, or anyone with 30% hp, is going to die from a 8k crit, g flippin g. It ultimately resolves to making a healer worth the same as a dps which is just poor game design, a team with healers should beat those without, too many healers is bad, but 2 or 3 is good, they should stay as is. With regards to healing issues in pvp, the pvp stat is the only thing that needs changing, remove the healing % buff, remove the damage % buff, remove the armor reduction buff and make it like wow, where there is less crit chance, and less crit damage taken.

 

Healers will be even more of an underdog after 1.2. The nerf to - at least Combat Medic - efficiency will make it much more challenging to keep up with the damage that is presently being tossed around. And thats before we take into account the general PvP buff damage got (damage resistance has an earlier DR and no longer offsets) in addition to other class-specific changes.

 

I disagree that healers should be able beat a DPS, in my opinion. I think it should be a stalemate, with neither playing contributing anything until someone else breaks the deadlock or walks away. At the very least, we should not be padding the kill count of DPS everywhere.

 

But as an mmo player for years now, i will say that patch noted always things look out to be far worse than they really, are, until we try it, stop whining and we will just get the hell along and try it.

 

The reason a lot of us are opposing the changes is that we have no idea where they came from. And from my own experience in the class, although I wasn't one of the lucky one who got a golden ticket for Bioware's Testing Factory, I am confident in what the effects the changes will have.

 

I've always worked in plenty of no/low cost abilities into my healing to keep ammo costs down. I know for a fact ammo management will be much more stringent now. I'm modifying my build to cut down on costs everywhere to compensate for the forthcoming increases to healing costs. I know my healing done will take a hit. I know my efficiency will take a hit. And that's someone who is geared and fairly confident in PvE and PvP. Players learning the class, leveling up, etc are the true victims here.

 

But like you said, I'll see for myself how bad these changes are. While I'm following the numbers and the reports on the PTS, I'm unable to test there. I won't be happy with the results until I can see for myself, and I have sufficient time remaining on my subscription to do just that.

Edited April 2, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[Shawndeberry]

With this change alot CM will need to remod to crit and surge, and go for the bigger but slower heals. Alacrity will be useless and make you burn though ammo way to fast.

 

Yeah I'm pissed about this too, even though I'm a dps I was planing to go CM as a off spec later but not now.

[Aritok]

Also, it seems to me that all these changes to healing trees are rather uncalled for but are evidently pointing towards less efficiency, and ill be honest the amount that troopers change is still gonna be better than sorcs, sorcs will no longer be taken on raids because force energy will run out before the boss hits 80% hp.

[/Quote]

Dream on. A sage will be as good as usual. Dont forget that the big heal got changed from 1 sec less cast time to 50% less force cost. The insane burst from the sage is gone. Alot came from a bug, and you cant even count this in as well. But the sage went from fast healer (5k heals in 1.2 sec) to a constant healer, with the less cost of it.

And sages will remain the main healer class for all (as always, if you cant heal this boss with anything else, take a sage).

 

 

Imagine your actually regen of ammo is 0.16 ammo per second, that is what sorcs will now have to make do with to heal, woopdy doo.

but only if the sage heals cost 160 force (counterpart to the 3 ammo the heal from commando cost).

 

I really hate these compensations that just dont work.

Sages have:

- a flat constant regen.

- a bigger force pool, so the finetuning works alot better as with plain 12 ammo.

- an ultimate heal proc spell that give a buff to all heals, depend what is need.

- by far the best AE heal in the game.

- alot of heals with short or no cooldown at all

- the force shield, which is by far the best prevention heal.

 

Commandos have:

- a ammo regen depending on the pool, so big regen while they have alot ammo.

- Instant heals and toys to make every heal to an instant if need

- a low healing spell that does not cost anything and has no cooldown (hammer shot).

- the Supercharge cell that is the toy spell with alot of boni.

- small ammo pool, where the difference between cost 1 and 2 makes a big difference.

 

And you come up with the lamest compensation i could think of. Reduce the ammo regen of the commando down to the sage regen.

 

Healers should ALWAYS BEAT A DPS 1 ON 1... ALWAYS!!!

Wrong. Skill and gear should decide who win. And not the class. But not even this will work in 1.2. Every DPS, not matter of skill or gear, will beat the **** out of the healers soon.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Aritok

[Aaoogaa]

I'm rubbing my hands together in delight at this post. you medics are finally killable1v1 in PvP where as, now, you are not.

 

Medics have been soloable 1 v 1 for a long time. You might want to look at improving your game play/gear if you are not able to take one down.

[NeverRose]

Its just bad game design (or bad player) when dps is able to take a healer solo.

 

Note: I play val 81 shadow.

[Gigglefluff]

Aritok, i would like to note that technically comparing the two regen, over the same amount of time, the regen the cost of a heal on a trooper and the time taken to regen 60 force energy, we are actually 7.5% more efficient.

 

1 on 1 yes, gear and skill should determine it, ofcourse a healer in 50 blues is going to loose to a rakata operative. However, Assuming they have the same gear, and same "skill" The healer should win. If a healer and dps fight leads to a draw, the value of a healer in a WZ is no different to having an additional dps.

 

Primarily the changes are not unreasonable, the changes to trauma probe are, and hopefully they will decide to make it 1 ammo. The changes that i was most shocked by at first was making the use of medical probe after an advanced medical probe cost 2 instead of 1, was annoying, but really, currently it costing 1 makes it very efficient when you hit your supercharge you can practically spam AMP->MP.

 

From what i can see, its what many mmo's make the fatal mistake of is that the are gimping two healing classes massively and far too quickly without adequate testing, if healers are still too efficient after a small change they can reduce it a bit more next week etc. But what BW haven't realized yet is that even a change of 5% healing, or 5% damage, makes a huge difference and can turn a class from being a good healer to being a ***** healer.

 

On the basis of the force energy again, the reasons sorcs are amazing at the moment, is because they can spam their highest healing potential efficiently with no force cost. The change that they are making will make them utterly inefficient because they will no longer be able to use 1 life tap every cycle, it will now cost 9% of their hp every time as apposed to free, which will make them far more squishy in pvp. Pve is shouldn't change it too much, but it is hardly ideal and they probably won't be able to solo heal ops anymore (which is how it should be tbh). But again wait and see what its like, maybe it wont be so bad, but we still have a few weeks until the patch hits, and hopefully the changes will be toned down

Edited April 3, 2012 by Gigglefluff