Perfectcircle Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The fact that you think Sprint refers to the level 14 ability is enough to disqualify your opinion. Thanks for posting though. I know what you were "referring" to. Try to use the proper key terms and we can answer your questions better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Op doesn't understand burst damage. Plugging away at a dpser's hp over a course of 4 minutes does not equal burst. Harassing a healer for 20 minutes does not equal burst. Getting ganked by someone in superior gear, guess what. Does not equal burst. Powertechs can focus entirely on dps mods and spec, while retaining the heavy armor benefits. The only way an assassin can compete is by sacrificing all their endurance for the sake of hitting people a little harder, and if you go dps, you have less survivability than a sorc. All other dps classes can wear medium or heavy armor, or in the case of sorcs have a bubble and some other tools to survive. In other words assassins become Mediocre tanks and mediocre dps. Play a class to 50 before ************ about imbalances please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 That burst revolves around 1 ability and the combination of recklessness and adrenals/relics, and can be easily stopped with a stun or knock back. You can explain until you're blue in the face but it's too much burst for a tank spec. I am well aware how it works. It doesn't matter. It's too much burst for a tank spec. Also force speed is overpowered in huttball mainly because it lets people go straight through fire. It could be fixed easily enough by resulting in an insta-kill if you go through fire while it's active. Make up some story about how it makes people explode or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 You can explain until you're blue in the face but it's too much burst for a tank spec. I am well aware how it works. It doesn't matter. It's too much burst for a tank spec. Also force speed is overpowered in huttball mainly because it lets people go straight through fire. It could be fixed easily enough by resulting in an insta-kill if you go through fire while it's active. Make up some story about how it makes people explode or something. So in other words, this game should be balanced because of your opinion that a gap closer isn't fair, and without damage metrics you assume a tank can burst. Sure, I'll bite, but in return They have to make shield/absorb and mitigation actually be effective in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectcircle Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 wow, you thought he was talking about the passive sprint and not the sprint ability they get... nice job. /facepalm oyi... maybe i should have followed that statement w/ /sarcasimoff. I knew what he was talking about, but his lack of key terms was what i was bringing out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 That's a seperate issue and one I'm happy to support in the abstract. If every other tank spec could burst the way tank assassins can you might have an argument on metrics but they can't so you don't. PT and jugg both have to spec dps to do good burst. Also the problem with force speed is not that it's a gap closer. As I said already the problem is the interaction with fire in huttball. You shouldn't be able to just run straight through a fire and take only a tick of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramand Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 remove the ability to stealth in combat and we can call it even. This should apply to Ops and Scoundrels as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrutalPain Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I fear only a few players and I have no class that i cant beat. Assassin are a joke to my scoundrel I let them get the opener most of the time so I don't have to look for them. Their burst damage is meh. Burst damage is meh? My guildie plays deception and hit for 6k. He almost hits as hard as I do on my rage juggernaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) That's a seperate issue and one I'm happy to support in the abstract. If every other tank spec could burst the way tank assassins can you might have an argument on metrics but they can't so you don't. PT and jugg both have to spec dps to do good burst. Also the problem with force speed is not that it's a gap closer. As I said already the problem is the interaction with fire in huttball. You shouldn't be able to just run straight through a fire and take only a tick of damage. The burden of proof is on you bub. Pretty sure you can ask anyone that plays a tank spec. You will get similar numbers by swapping tank mods for dps. You will never = the dps of a dps spec, and you will never be as tanky as a tank. Why should I have to sacrifice the one viable build I have, so that you can win 1v1 any class you want? Also, huttball and fire. Stun him on the fire. Jesus, almost every class has a gap closer they can use to jump from half the map to the goal, but you ***** about the strategic use of RUNNING THROUGH FIRE. Which, by the way, generally only has time to use it for one fire, so if it's the last one, your team probably sucks. Edited March 16, 2012 by Antipathize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 You can explain until you're blue in the face but it's too much burst for a tank spec. I am well aware how it works. It doesn't matter. It's too much burst for a tank spec. Also force speed is overpowered in huttball mainly because it lets people go straight through fire. It could be fixed easily enough by resulting in an insta-kill if you go through fire while it's active. Make up some story about how it makes people explode or something. yeah I have wrecked people for 6k damage with FL when I have 3 stacks the with a 3k shock that follows against under geared players or sorcs/sages. If I pull this off against someone with gear I can get maybe 5k damage with the rotation. But anyways everyone thinks is redic so it is. As for force speed, well we are not the only class that has an ability that makes moving the ball easier. Does this class have the potential to do good burst yes, but its not as nuts as everyone makes it out to be. I do feel that the classes need balance but some think we should do no damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramand Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Burst damage is meh? My guildie plays deception and hit for 6k. He almost hits as hard as I do on my rage juggernaut. Lol, A juggernaught should never hit for 6k worth of damage since they can wear heavy armor...remove the heavy armor and force a downgrade and then let them hit hard... Heavy armor has perks over a DPS class in light and/or medium armor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 No, you won't. You're just wrong. PT and Jugg don't have significant burst if specced in the tank tree. Assassins still do. The basic problem with the assassin is that too much comes from the class and not enough from the spec trees. There's no real reason not to go tank spec right now because the dps trees are so lacking because so much of the class comes baseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Also the problem with force speed is not that it's a gap closer. As I said already the problem is the interaction with fire in huttball. You shouldn't be able to just run straight through a fire and take only a tick of damage. Force speed is a great gap closer, as if speed right it removes roots/snares, I would say though that pull is a better gap closer. Also the force speed threw the fire sorcs/sages with a bubble can do this as well as we can, but they should not be holding the ball anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Well obviously force speed is a problem on both inq classes. I thought that was obvious. It is more of a problem the better your team gets. When teams are bad charge > force speed because you can charge across a fire to some noob standing on the other side. When you start playing better teams who don't let you do that force speed becomes incredibly powerful because it's the only way to bypass fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 No, you won't. You're just wrong. PT and Jugg don't have significant burst if specced in the tank tree. Assassins still do. The basic problem with the assassin is that too much comes from the class and not enough from the spec trees. There's no real reason not to go tank spec right now because the dps trees are so lacking because so much of the class comes baseline. I agree with you there that yes, there is no real reason not to use the tank tree. Deception needs a damage buff to make up for the fact that they wear light armor and are the squishiest class in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 No, you won't. You're just wrong. PT and Jugg don't have significant burst if specced in the tank tree. Assassins still do. The basic problem with the assassin is that too much comes from the class and not enough from the spec trees. There's no real reason not to go tank spec right now because the dps trees are so lacking because so much of the class comes baseline. Maybe your words are just not making sense because they tumble out of your *** so freely. The other trees are not viable because they generally suck, not because sins can "do without". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrutalPain Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Lol, A juggernaught should never hit for 6k worth of damage since they can wear heavy armor...remove the heavy armor and force a downgrade and then let them hit hard... Heavy armor has perks over a DPS class in light and/or medium armor.. Rage juggernauts traded their survavibility for AOE burst. Its normal that they do highest burst damage as they are designed to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Some of the burst needs to be moved out of baseline and the tank tree and put onto the dps spec trees. Tank spec assassins need to do less burst, dps specced assassins need to do better sustained dps and keep the burst tank assassins have now. Edited March 16, 2012 by yukirshiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipathize Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Some of the burst needs to be moved out of baseline and the tank tree and put onto the dps spec trees. Tank spec assassins need to do less burst, dps specced assassins need to do better sustained dps and keep the burst tank assassins have now. You can't be a real person. I refuse to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pekish Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I have to say I play Shadow and Sentinel as my main and i play them equally succesfully... but when i play sentinel it is fun (i love it my favorite!) but very group dependent! if the group knows what to do my sentinel is invincible end of story when i play Shadow if the group is strong i kind of get bored i have my stuff to do but nothing really challenging or half as exaiting as a sentinel and the result in a well organized team Shadows are good but the group doesnt really depend of me I can slack or play only 50% of my crap and we still own them totally the opposite if you play solo and join queue solo with my sentinel i fell (in a group that has no clue) that i am wasting time I try my best i struggle to change the result of the match but there is not much i can do with my Shadow I join queue solo i can really make the difference alone i have so much utility that I can cover up slacking member of my team alone they just need to worry to do their patethic damage and i will do all the rest. Is Shadow better then Sentinel ABSOLUTELY NO they are just very very very different and if you play SOLO I would advice you to pick Shadow as you can REALLY make the difference in a match... But if u play with a strong guild and you pick a sentinel and you know how to use it well you will be 2 time more usefull in a well organized group you alone can fight and keep busy 3 enemy (obviously supported by the healer) for a long time while if 3 enemy focus on your shadow even if supported by a healer you wont be as effective at all Edited March 16, 2012 by Pekish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzieus Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I beg to differ. Kinetic Shadows, if Modded correctly can do amazing burst, outlast most opponents, keep a healer locked down, defend a node against 2-3-4 till help arrives. 31/0/10. Scrap the shield gen, get a good Focus and stack the END/DEF/SURGE Enhancements found on Battlemaster JK Guardian PVP armor, swap in some Rakata MODS, carry about 500 Expertise. 30% crit and 76% surge as a Tank is pretty substantial. Combine that with about 40% damage reduction, 20%+ Defense, two self heals, Relic/Consumables. Hell 1/2 the time I do more damage than the pure DPS spec AC's. I admit I feel that the Tank spec Shadows are really powerful if played and geared properly. Lonestar/Dalamar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Tank spec assassins need a burst nerf, the dps trees need a buff so there's a reason to spec dps instead of tank. It's pretty simple stuff really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I beg to differ. Kinetic Shadows, if Modded correctly can do amazing burst, outlast most opponents, keep a healer locked down, defend a node against 2-3-4 till help arrives. 31/0/10. Scrap the shield gen, get a good Focus and stack the END/DEF/SURGE Enhancements found on Battlemaster JK Guardian PVP armor, swap in some Rakata MODS, carry about 500 Expertise. 30% crit and 76% surge as a Tank is pretty substantial. Combine that with about 40% damage reduction, 20%+ Defense, two self heals, Relic/Consumables. Hell 1/2 the time I do more damage than the pure DPS spec AC's. I admit I feel that the Tank spec Shadows are really powerful if played and geared properly. Lonestar/Dalamar best argument is in red I dont have my gear super modded out, but wouldn't you loose the damage reduction and defense if you swap out the defense/absorb mods for power/crit/surge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Some of the burst needs to be moved out of baseline and the tank tree and put onto the dps spec trees. Tank spec assassins need to do less burst, dps specced assassins need to do better sustained dps and keep the burst tank assassins have now. You should remake those sentences randomly moving the words "tank" "dps" and "burst" around and see if anyone notices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French-toast Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The class is made to be a utility class, its not intended to be top dps or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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