Over Powered healing killing PvP

[Sickboy_]

the fact that healers are currently designed to heal nightmare mode raid boss damage means that healing MUST be significantly nerfed if this game is to have any sort of life expectancy. I don't know why these arrogant healers, so full of themselves, don't realize this. People will QUIT and this game will go free to play then eventually get shut down if this continues.

[fungihoujo]

Except a problem exists where specs(sorc/sage in particular and merc to some extent) can both heal and put out significant damage.

 

That sorc hybrid spec that allows 'significant' healing (which in truth is moderate at best), also gets rid of all the bonus CC abilities that people are so concerned about, or, gimps damage output by quite a bit- a heal specced anything has very weak damage, for a class that even dps specced already has the worst burst in the game and is, thus, the worst class for trying to kill healer groups anyway.

 

Without full heal spec- there's a 3 second heal, that's pretty much it- you can also do a pathetically weak 1.5 second heal. How can you get off 3 second heals? If they ignore you- any spec that has CC or decent damage is extremely easy to shut down while healing.

[Nonnolol]

Except a problem exists where specs(sorc/sage in particular and merc to some extent) can both heal and put out significant damage.

 

I can't speak for other classes but as a bodygaurd specced merc, there is simply no way for me to dish out more than 175k dmg. My damage moves are simply too heat intensive without the proper talents. In other words, this statement is simply wrong as far as mercenaries are concerned. Maybe a healing sorc would like to add a response to this comment.

 

There are more collective DPSers than healers, so it is a give in that you see more dps than heals on charts.

 

I'm talking about at the margin. In other words, it is quite common for a SINGLE dpser to put out bigger numbers than a SINGLE healer (and this is especially true if the opposing team focus's the healer).

 

However in 2v2 4v4 etc situations the team with more healers will win because they can heal said damage indefinitely without dying..

 

And what leads you to believe this? The last 3v3 tourney I've seen was dominated by teams with two dps. The main strategy was to quickly obliterate the healer, which happened in basically every fight. Even the Merc/Commando healers died very quickly (the sorc and operatives simply died a little-bit fster).

 

I'm having a 2v2 tourney on my server this Sunday. Most of the teams that registered a running double dps.

[fungihoujo]

the fact that healers are currently designed to heal nightmare mode raid boss damage means that healing MUST be significantly nerfed if this game is to have any sort of life expectancy. I don't know why these arrogant healers, so full of themselves, don't realize this. People will QUIT and this game will go free to play then eventually get shut down if this continues.

 

I guess you must have herped so hard you derped, because you forgot to mention dpsers are currently designed to dps nightmare mode raid bosses... or that healers in operations tend to not have to worry about a couple things that healers in pvp do...

 

-CC... interrupts.... being targetted... dealing with random unexpected damage... stealth focus ganks... more CC

 

If you really think pvp and pve are the same when it comes to healing, you really are the poster boy for the 'nerf healers nao!' cluster.

[LoKiei]

You cant kill a solo healer solo or then there is no reason for healers to exist. If you can kill equal geared/skilled healers solo then expect your class to be nerfed.

 

I disagree, fights should never be indefinite. The purpose of healing in PVP is not to prevent death(and if it can fully prevent death it needs to be reduced) but extend life a little bit longer(and within that time frame remove the threat or die after).

 

Also note that all healers can do damage but not all dps's can heal, the game is inherently dps focused, all fighting games are.

Edited March 16, 2012 by LoKiei

[ocping]

The only healer that is OP is merc/commando. Remove interrupt immunity from their shield CD and it'll be a little bit better. It takes zero skill to pop a CD that on top of reducing damage done to you but also enables one to be able to spam best healing spells without fear of interrupts.

 

If anything, ops/smug healer is too easy to kill and needs a buff. Sorcs/sages are fine (but OP in huttball).

[RyanEclipse]

I disagree, fights should never be indefinite. The purpose of healing in PVP is not to prevent death(and if it can fully prevent death it needs to be reduced) but extend life a little bit longer(and within that time frame remove the threat or die after).

 

Also note that all healers can do damage but not all dps's can heal, the game is inherently dps focused, all fighting games are.

 

This guy hit the nail on the head. Prevent death, not make it virtually impossible to happen.

[exphryl]

The only healer that is OP is merc/commando. Remove interrupt immunity from their shield CD and it'll be a little bit better. It takes zero skill to pop a CD that on top of reducing damage done to you but also enables one to be able to spam best healing spells without fear of interrupts.

 

If anything, ops/smug healer is too easy to kill and needs a buff. Sorcs/sages are fine (but OP in huttball).

 

OPs are the hardest healers to kill if played right.

 

The ones that stand in one spot trying to heal themselves are terrible and should respec to dps.

[Volimax]

I kinda agree and disagree.

Healers should play a very important role (and no i dont have a healer).

They should be able to keep themself up against a strong dps.

But when a healer outheals 3 people that dps him than somethings wrong.

Maybe they should re think expertise.

If both people have the same expertise they cancel eachothers damage bonus with there absorb bonus.

However a healer still uses the healing bonus. That is so wrong

[Nonnolol]

the fact that healers are currently designed to heal nightmare mode raid boss damage means that healing MUST be significantly nerfed if this game is to have any sort of life expectancy. I don't know why these arrogant healers, so full of themselves, don't realize this. People will QUIT and this game will go free to play then eventually get shut down if this continues.

 

This is the dumbest crap I've ever heard. Obviously heals must be strong enough to keep people alive in pve scenarios. If they weren't, then no ops group would ever bring a healer to any pve encounter ever. It would be just 8-16 dpsers trying to kill a boss before the boss kills them.. But this is probably what you wish pve would be like.

 

Next, healers lose 30% healing in pvp. I mean, this comment is so dumb that it's really hard to rationalize. And so far your only argument is that "those who disagree with me are biased!" If you have nothing of substance to say, then just please move along..

[Sickboy_]

The only healer that is OP is merc/commando. Remove interrupt immunity from their shield CD and it'll be a little bit better. It takes zero skill to pop a CD that on top of reducing damage done to you but also enables one to be able to spam best healing spells without fear of interrupts.

 

If anything, ops/smug healer is too easy to kill and needs a buff. Sorcs/sages are fine (but OP in huttball).

 

sorc healers are far and away the most overpowered healers in this game. I see a bunch of consulars and inquis whining about lacking heavy armor, but force armor provides so much more damage mitigation than heavy armor EVER could, THAT is what needs a nerf especially, their force armor.

[ocping]

OPs are the hardest healers to kill if played right.

 

The ones that stand in one spot trying to heal themselves are terrible and should respec to dps.

 

You just think that because you have no idea how to kill them.

 

I played sawbones before and I admit, it's lol spamming emergency medpac on myself with 3 dps on me who have no idea how to kill me.

 

It's simple. Burst the ops/smug down <30%. Save your stuns for then. Don't fill his resolve before this. I can kill full BM gear ops/smug healer no problemo but give me a champ gear merc and there's no way in hell you can kill him unless you get 3 or 4 DPS to focus on him while his shield is up.

[Nonnolol]

But when a healer outheals 3 people that dps him than somethings wrong.

 

However a healer still uses the healing bonus. That is so wrong

 

I agree with this. If 3 dpsers can't kill a healer then there's something undoubtedly wrong... with those 3 dpsers!! I know an operative that can kill me in his opener when I don't have cooldowns (i have 18.4k hp, 540 expertise).

 

I can kill full BM gear ops/smug healer no problemo but give me a champ gear merc and there's no way in hell you can kill him unless you get 3 or 4 DPS to focus on him while his shield is up.

 

That shield is his only major defensive mechanism. Rather than trying to kill him through the shield why don't you do a quick switch and come back to him, you know, when the shield is gone?!

Edited March 16, 2012 by Nonnolol

[ocping]

sorc healers are far and away the most overpowered healers in this game. I see a bunch of consulars and inquis whining about lacking heavy armor, but force armor provides so much more damage mitigation than heavy armor EVER could, THAT is what needs a nerf especially, their force armor.

 

They are the squishiest and have no escape other than force speed and a KB. Unless there's a merc healer spamming him nearby you should have no problem killing a sorc healer with just 2 DPS on him/her.

[ShadowOfVey]

I was thinking about the idea of giving snipers a low damage shot with a 30 sec cooldown that debuffed healing on the target by 25%.

 

Instantly makes snipers desirable to play in WZs without making them broken and would help alleviate some of the healing stalemates.

[Sickboy_]

This is the dumbest crap I've ever heard. Obviously heals must be strong enough to keep people alive in pve scenarios. If they weren't, then no ops group would ever bring a healer to any pve encounter ever. It would be just 8-16 dpsers trying to kill a boss before the boss kills them.. But this is probably what you wish pve would be like.

 

Next, healers lose 30% healing in pvp. I mean, this comment is so dumb that it's really hard to rationalize. And so far your only argument is that "those who disagree with me are biased!" If you have nothing of substance to say, then just please move along..

 

so basically you admit you have no argument and that you lost the debate by posting a bunch of ad hominem.

[Ortof]

This is the dumbest crap I've ever heard. Obviously heals must be strong enough to keep people alive in pve scenarios. If they weren't, then no ops group would ever bring a healer to any pve encounter ever. It would be just 8-16 dpsers trying to kill a boss before the boss kills them.. But this is probably what you wish pve would be like.

 

Next, healers lose 30% healing in pvp. I mean, this comment is so dumb that it's really hard to rationalize. And so far your only argument is that "those who disagree with me are biased!" If you have nothing of substance to say, then just please move along..

 

How can you say that when you have flown off the handle with over exaggerated accusations as to what people who think healing should be nerfed or tweaked really want? I mean unless you are going for the hypocritical argument, then by all means cover your ears and scream "LA,LA,LA,LA,LA,LA".

 

Everyone says that healers lost 30% healing and they did, but you're forgetting to factor in PVP gear and even PVP adrenals. That 30% turns into 5% or less does it not? And certainly less than 20% without an adrenal. So figure for ease sake, 15% loss. That's only 150 per 1k heal.

 

I mean why are healers acting like they are so gimped as opposed to being realistic. I realize that some of the claims against healers are over exaggerated but come on. If you can't hold off 2 people with your defenses and heals then perhaps you need to look into how to play your toon. Heck, I can without changing my gear and just respecing heals.

 

The way you healers are portraying it is you have 2 heals, one big one little. You have no defenses or stuns, knockbacks, snares, roots or anything of the like and you are playing solo amongst an army of War Lord geared 6 second interrupting players.

 

When in reality you have another healer close to you or perhaps 2 more. Coupled with defenses, roots, stuns, knockbacks etc, you survive a great deal of time while being able to heal yourself and others at the same time.

 

Call it what it is man, don't go all over board with exaggerations, it defeats your own stance.

[Ojas]

It's no secret that healing in this game is overpowered. The only people arguing that it isn't are the ones that are taking advantage of it's lack of balance. I would ask these people to not be short sighted and think about the good of the game first.

 

The vast majority of people that PvP, do so to mess someone up. It's been the foundation of PvP in MMOs since PvPs conception. Now when healing imbalance turns the PvP experience into an exercise in frustration like we're starting to see, people quit and find something else to do. While it may be fun to take advantage of healing imbalance and spam LOL at these people while blocking their ability to achieve. It's not going to help with long term retention.

 

We're already getting the same syndrome that Rift saw with it's overpowered healing. ie. stack healers and spam which leads to:

 

Boring PVP is Boring!

 

Leads to:

 

see ya!

 

Additionally, it's bad enough the combat mechanics in this game are so slow and clunky. Why would you want to add the slow boring grind that comes with overpowered healing into the mix? You're just exasperating an unpleasantness in the game.

 

Just because you can't kill a healer doesn't mean it's not possible to kill a healer.

[Dlema]

Healers are fine, tho some classes should have 50% heal decrease skill similar to warriors mortal strike in wow. With the upcoming rated WZs I hope this gets looked at cause most teams will have 3 healers.

[Sickboy_]

They are the squishiest and have no escape other than force speed and a KB. Unless there's a merc healer spamming him nearby you should have no problem killing a sorc healer with just 2 DPS on him/her.

 

That load of bull**** might work on somebody who doesn't know sage/sorc mechanics, but I actually have a level 50 champion geared sage, and they are virtually impossible for any class and any spec to 1v1, and they can last a good minute 1v2 of two dps beating on them, and by then there teammates will come running to help.

[Nonnolol]

Everyone says that healers lost 30% healing and they did, but you're forgetting to factor in PVP gear and even PVP adrenals. That 30% turns into 5% or less does it not?

 

No because those adrenals are also usable in pve.... And pvp gear has less of the main stat then pve gear (which balances out the expertise)...

 

I mean why are healers acting like they are so gimped as opposed to being realistic.

 

Because we have to deal with never ending chains of interrupts and stuns that make us helpless without a lot of cooldowns and/or assistance from teamates.

 

If you can't hold off 2 people with your defenses and heals then perhaps you need to look into how to play your toon.

 

I can as long as my cds are up. Once they're down, I die.

 

The way you healers are portraying it is you have 2 heals, one big one little. You have no defenses or stuns, knockbacks, snares, roots or anything

 

You make it seem like dpsers don't have stuns, leaps, roots, knockbacks, interrupts and other forms of crowd control.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Nonnolol

[Nonnolol]

That load of bull**** might work on somebody who doesn't know sage/sorc mechanics, but I actually have a level 50 champion geared sage, and they are virtually impossible for any class and any spec to 1v1, and they can last a good minute 1v2 of two dps beating on them, and by then there teammates will come running to help.

 

You're lost buddy. The sorc/sage class is the weakest class in the game, both as healing and as dps. They're burst is almost nonexistent and they're the most easily killed class in the game. But what can I expect from the guy who thinks that healers shouldn't be able to keep people alive in pve?

[Sickboy_]

You're lost buddy. The sorc/sage class is the weakest class in the game, both as healing and as dps. They're burst is almost nonexistent and they're the most easily killed class in the game. But what can I expect from the guy who thinks that healers shouldn't be able to keep people alive in pve?

 

Do you even play the same game as the rest of us? Sage/sorc, no matter the spec, can 1v1 any class in this game WITH EASE, and if they're heal specced they can survive at least 12-20 seconds of the entire enemy team beating on them.

[Nonnolol]

Do you even play the same game as the rest of us? Sage/sorc, no matter the spec, can 1v1 any class in this game WITH EASE, and if they're heal specced they can survive at least 12-20 seconds of the entire enemy team beating on them.

 

Your anecdotal experiences are not indubitable facts.

 

And the fact that you believe that a sorc can stay alive against 8 people for 20 secs is truly mind-blowing. You might be a troll.

[Deamian]

healing is in no way OP in this game.

 

 

ofcourse your not going to kill a healer by yourself they can heal themselves DERP!

 

 

healing is actualy quite underpowerd in this game, its only because of the big number of healers on a team that makes it feel that way.

 

 

we are sorry you missile spammers or lightning smammers cant kill us with your 1 button wonder OP scrub class'ss and because you cant you come on here and cry

 

sorry but

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

 

learn to pvp

 

 

I stopped at yours to reply... first because you said derp so i know you are probably 12 years old.. or just an idiot. 2nd because you must be a healer.. and are just bold face lying about the underpowered statement.. what are you a sage? or scoundrel? where 3-5 people can focus you and still not kill you with your spam heals..

 

Healing suffers nothing in pvp but a few interrupts.. with 3 healers it suffers nothing while the dps on whichever team has those healers runs wild. I do not think healing needs nerfed into the ground but I watch sages use next to no healing resource for their heals as they spam while shielded. 1.2 will speak volumes hopefully.. in the meantime im still having fun.. most games